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limejello10512
Near as I can tell they haven't. Did I miss one?
Luddite
Nope, they haven't had an out-and-out shooting war as of yet. Special ops aplenty, but nothing declared, with the tanks and the planes. After the Euro wars real declared wars seem to become passe.
Cynic project
Chicago?
FrankTrollman
The UCAS was declared in 2030.

In 2034, the Confederacy withdrew from the union by way of the results of a severely large pile of bodies.

In 2037, Japanese Imperial Marines landed in San Francisco and Californa seceded from the UCAS.

In 2038, Hawaiian chiefs gain control of a Thor Strike system and fire space-based mass drivers at the UCAS Pacific fleet, effectively gaining their independence by force of arms.

In 2055, a cult of Insect Spirit worshippers became the defacto owners of Chicago when they took up arms and ejected government officials and national military units by force. The government hires private contractors to detonate a nuclear blast in retaliation. The city of ten million people was under siege for almost three years and the UCAS regains control after launching a biological weaponry attack that nearly clears out all inhabitants of the city.

In 2059, the largest arcology in Seattle is taken over by a literal army of machines and brainwashed thralls of a self-aware computer program. Two years later, UCAS military were standing triumphant over the twisted bodies and burning wreckage of Deus' armed forces and the territory was claimed as battle salvage by the nation.

---

OK... the UCAS, like the United States before it, has not declared war in the 21st century. However, they have had no less than five armed confrontations involving the deployment of weapons of mass destruction that have resulted in the gaining or losing of territory and millions of people for the nation of the United Canadian and American States. The fact that they have never been "at war" is merely a diplomatic stance.

They like to classify building a wall around a 10 million person city and theen dropping a nuclear weapon on it as a "police action" but I don't think anyone outside the UCAS sees it that way.

-Frank
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Luddite)
After the Euro wars real declared wars seem to become passe.

...unless you are unlucky enough to live in the Balkans.frown.gif
Fix-it
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Two years later, UCAS military were standing triumphant over the twisted bodies and burning wreckage of Deus' armed forces and the territory was claimed as battle salvage by the nation.

I thought they gave it back to Renraku.

I'm sure they stripped it of as much usefull stuff as they could get away with, but gave it back nonetheless....
Serial_Peacemaker
Nope they took it. They general in charge of that operation, and current president of the UCAS is essentially extremely ruthless, and willing to screw over megas. Which it should be add since they are still alive probabely fairly bad ass in one way or another.
Wraithshadow
If I'm not mistaken (and I could be) California got kicked out of UCAS first, then when everyone started to grab portions of the state for themselves, California said, "Help Japanese people! Other countries keep showing up and claiming territory for themselves. Can you do something?"

Japan's response, "Why- don't mind we do. We claim this land for Spain! I mean, Japan!"
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Wraithshadow)
If I'm not mistaken (and I could be) California got kicked out of UCAS first, then when everyone started to grab portions of the state for themselves, California said, "Help Japanese people! Other countries keep showing up and claiming territory for themselves. Can you do something?"

Japan's response, "Why- don't mind we do. We claim this land for Spain! I mean, Japan!"

Not exactly.

QUOTE (Neo Anarchist's Guide to North America)
When California withdrew from the UCAS in 2037, Japan backed it up with diplomatic recognition and hefty military aid. The leaders of the California Free State lived to rue that day, for the Japanese have  established so much influence in that region that California is nearly an Imperial client-state at this writing.


QUOTE (SR2)
Independence fever was contagious. Long isolated  from its UCAS parent, California also declared itself a sovereign nation in 2037. Immediately recognizing it as a sovereign nation, the powerful Japanese Imperial State followed up by landing troops there to protect Imperial interests from any possible economic disruptioons.


And by the way, the UCAS has had several other skirmishes and wars. From border raids and missile shots against the Sioux in 2043-2045 to a New Revolution Coup in 2065, the UCAS has not gone five years without a war of one kind or another since its founding in 2030.

-Frank
MYST1C
QUOTE (Fix-it)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Apr 6 2007, 02:08 AM)
Two years later, UCAS military were standing triumphant over the twisted bodies and burning wreckage of Deus' armed forces and the territory was claimed as battle salvage by the nation.

I thought they gave it back to Renraku.

Nope.
According to Runner Havens the liberation was followed by a long legal battle over the costs of the operation.
Eventually, when Renraku refused to pay the military they were thrown out.
In 2070 the Arcology Commercial and Housing Enclave (ACHE) belongs to the Seattle government while some parts (including the fusion reactors) are still controlled by the UCAS army.
Wraithshadow
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Not exactly.

QUOTE (Neo Anarchist's Guide to North America)
When California withdrew from the UCAS in 2037, Japan backed it up with diplomatic recognition and hefty military aid. The leaders of the California Free State lived to rue that day, for the Japanese have  established so much influence in that region that California is nearly an Imperial client-state at this writing.


QUOTE (SR2)
Independence fever was contagious. Long isolated  from its UCAS parent, California also declared itself a sovereign nation in 2037. Immediately recognizing it as a sovereign nation, the powerful Japanese Imperial State followed up by landing troops there to protect Imperial interests from any possible economic disruptioons.



QUOTE (Shadowrun 4th Edition p 29)
California levied the last of its secession threats in 2036, because then-President McAlister forced them to make good on them by kicking California out of the UCAS. As soon as all UCAS forces left , Tír Tairngire rolled in. They mounted a surprise attack in Northern California with infantry and air support supplemented with paranimals, combat mages, and allegedly two dragons, advancing as far as south of Redding. Th ere they stopped, set up camp, and demanded that all non-elves leave the area in thirty days. The response was, predictably, “To hell with you.” Guerilla resisters banded together and managed to push the Tir forces back to Yreka. Th e area between Yreka and Redding became a DMZ. But at the same time as the Tir’s assault, Aztlan rose up and took another bite out of the newly-independent state, striking north and capturing San Diego. Foreseeing a future that included more of this, California’s governor made the worst possible move and appealed to Japan for help.

The help sent was Imperial Japanese Marines, who took the kind invitation and grabbed up San Francisco in the name of protecting “Japanese lives and corporate assets.” Th is would have worse repercussions later. Meanwhile, California was now
CalFree, baby, and a little bewildered at its state.


Guess they changed things around a bit.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Wraithshadow)
Guess they changed things around a bit.


Unfortunately no. That's Fastjack going off on a tirade about how he hates the CFS, which he does. Since it's all based on his personal viewpoint rather than an actual hitorian's view (let alone peer reviewed history or truly objective game text), it doesn't actually mean that the world is any different just because Fastjack went off on a tirade about something that contradicts previous writings.

I really wish that they hadn't done that. The hand-waving and hyperbole that have gone into California descriptions would lead one to believe that, for example, thousandss of cubic kilometers of material fell into metaplanar lacunae and the planet was therefore hit with earthquakes and tsunamis that would have been approximately 6 orders of magnitude larger than the Indonesian Tsunami of 2004.

That wasn't what happened, we know this because Seattle and Hong Kong are still standing and there are still corporations active in LA. But because everything for the 4th edition timeline relating to California has been thrown around with in-character rumor mongering rather than straight talk, what actually happened is straight-up unknown.

-Frank
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (SR4)
California levied the last of its secession threats in 2036, because then-President McAlister forced them to make good on them by kicking California out of the UCAS. As soon as all UCAS forces left , Tír Tairngire rolled in. They mounted a surprise attack in Northern California with infantry and air support supplemented with paranimals, combat mages, and allegedly two dragons, advancing as far as south of Redding. Th ere they stopped, set up camp, and demanded that all non-elves leave the area in thirty days. The response was, predictably, “To hell with you.” Guerilla resisters banded together and managed to push the Tir forces back to Yreka. Th e area between Yreka and Redding became a DMZ.

...hmm, I'll have to re-read the TTs angle from the sourcebook on this again.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (SR4)
California levied the last of its secession threats in 2036, because then-President McAlister forced them to make good on them by kicking California out of the UCAS. As soon as all UCAS forces left , Tír Tairngire rolled in. They mounted a surprise attack in Northern California with infantry and air support supplemented with paranimals, combat mages, and allegedly two dragons, advancing as far as south of Redding. Th ere they stopped, set up camp, and demanded that all non-elves leave the area in thirty days. The response was, predictably, “To hell with you.” Guerilla resisters banded together and managed to push the Tir forces back to Yreka. Th e area between Yreka and Redding became a DMZ.

...hmm, I'll have to re-read the TTs angle from the sourcebook on this again.

The Californian state government passed a resolution to recognize Tir Tairngire in 2036, and the Elves repaid the kindness by conquering Redding using magically augmented forces. During the battle, they were opposed by mundane California National Guard and the UCAS army did not retaliate.

The people of Northern California made the Elven positions around Redding untenable with guerilla tactics and improvised explosive devices and the Tir forces fell back North inside of a year. That's TT, pgs. 30-31.

That dovetails quite nicely with California seceding in 2037 from the United States, since it was still the "CNG" and not the CFS Army that the Tir was fighting in 2036. the failure of the UCAS military to get involved in the invasion of its territory by Tir Tairngire in 2036 will probably go down as one of the dumbest things that a President of the UCAS has ever done.

By essentially abdicating their role in that war, the UCAS gave California seccessionists an iron-handed grip on the political spectrum. Literally noone could make a good case at that point that the fifty million inhabitants of California would be better off staying as part of the union.

---

Of course, that brings up the question: why the hell would the UCAS fight for Seattle when they didn't fight for San Francisco, San Jose, or Los Angeles? All three cities are bigger and more conomically important (and can feed themselves).

-Frank
Wraithshadow
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
---

Of course, that brings up the question: why the hell would the UCAS fight for Seattle when they didn't fight for San Francisco, San Jose, or Los Angeles? All three cities are bigger and more conomically important (and can feed themselves).

-Frank

Better coffee? grinbig.gif
fistandantilus4.0
President Colloton seems to be amping up , or attempting to, to go after the NAN nations. Mabe she wants forces on both sides. Long term planning?
Pyritefoolsgold
Because if they lose seattle, they lose their only port on the west, and with it access to Japan, china, russia, ect.
fistandantilus4.0
And that's import tax dollars right there.
Grinder
QUOTE (Pyritefoolsgold)
Because if they lose seattle, they lose their only port on the west, and with it access to Japan, china, russia, ect.

If they would have fought for LA and SanFran, they would still have 3 major ports on the Pacific.
Maybe politicians are able to learn? Scary thought....
Cynic project
QUOTE (Pyritefoolsgold)
Because if they lose seattle, they lose their only port on the west, and with it access to Japan, china, russia, ect.

LA and San Fran are both bigger ports than Seatle.... Hell LA has two ports that are each bigger than Seattle. San Fran bay nearly has two that are bigger than Seattle...It really like the number 4 in terms of scale.
fistandantilus4.0
Yeah but the lost those a long time ago. Back in the 30's. The UCAS can't move an army across the NAN to reclaim the CFS, and I don't think popular sentiment is going to be looking any better towards them, now that tthey have even more abuse to be resentful about. Can they really afford to lose another one?
Grinder
No, they can't.

Kyoto Kid
...which is why they will no doubt derail any secessionist movement in the Plex. Unless somewhere, somehow Hestaby's got other plans.

...letsee, Northern Crescent, TT, Seattle Metroplex, SS...?

...whooops.. conspiracy theorising out loud again...grinbig.gif
Rajaat99
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
a New Revolution Coup in 2065,

Was this in System Failure?
fistandantilus4.0
Yup
Cynic project
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
Yeah but the lost those a long time ago. Back in the 30's. The UCAS can't move an army across the NAN to reclaim the CFS, and I don't think popular sentiment is going to be looking any better towards them, now that tthey have even more abuse to be resentful about. Can they really afford to lose another one?

Dude they did not even fight for them int he first place.They let them go. It is not that they couldn't have fought for them in the past. They just did not.
fistandantilus4.0
Right , they didn't fight for it then, which was the problem. The UCAS was just formed in 2030, so it was probably still trying to get it's head out of it's ass. How often do we look back at a mistake made only 40-50 years ago and say "How the hell did we do something so stupid?" Japanese internment camps anyone? The UCAS screwed up big time with CalFree. The current government can't afford to make the same mistake yet again.
Cynic project
They just formed and fought for Seattle.
fistandantilus4.0
CalFree wasn't Cal free yet. They weren't in danger of losing those ports, but they would have lost Seattle.
FrankTrollman
In 2030, the UCAS fought for Seattle and won.
In 2034, the UCAS fought for Georgia and lost.
In 2037, the UCAS didn't fight for California and lost.

Seriously, what the hell? That's not just irrational, it's incomprehensible. There has never been an adequate explanation of why the UCAS government allowed the first, second, and third largest port on the Western Seaboard to wander off without a fight.

No country has ever decided to simply not fight while a beligerent nation started taking their territory. Or to put it another way:

In 2036, when the Tir began invading the UCAS, why the fucking hell would they put all the soldiers on the wall of Seattle and let Redding fall without a fight? Militarily that's insanity. The Tir would have to fight their way through hundreds of kilometers of Salish territory and the Sovereign Tribal Council wouldn't have even given them shit if they retaliated by nuking Portland.

---

So the real question is: what could the Elves give President McAlister that would make him physically walk away from the ports of Los Angeles (LongBeach), San Francisco (Oakland), and San Diego? Because if he wasn't paid right off there is absolutely no way in hell that he would make the call to allow a non-nuclear hostile power to invade as much of his territory as it wanted to.

Recall that CalFree had 50 million people in it after it lost San Diego to Aztlan. We're talking leaving about 60 million people who are on average more educated and wealthier than the rest of your empire go swing while people who have awesome sword technology come in and hack them to bits. He took an area of his empire that was larger, wealthier, and more important than Italy and set it on fire while enemies which he out-muscled in ever countable fashion conquered it with sharpened sticks.

-Frank
TheRedRightHand
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)



and set it on fire while enemies which he out-muscled in ever countable fashion conquered it with sharpened sticks.


And a shit load of magic, and some immortal elves, and a couple of dragons (at least one of them a great).
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Frank Trollman)

There has never been an adequate explanation of why the UCAS government allowed the first, second, and third largest port on the Western Seaboard to wander off without a fight.




I honestly think that this one was just because the writers wanted ot more broken up. They wanted it that way and just never got around to making a good reason.

QUOTE

let Redding fall without a fight



The area north of Shasta/Redding already wants to be it's own state. Well, some people within it want to be, because it's interests are very different from the rest California. They need a lot more water, because it gets mostly hot and dry, relying on the mountain run off, which is already getting to be less each year. It's industry is agriculture, mostly cattle. Farther south it's produce. Redding it's self, well it doesn't have a lot to offer except for land full of hills. Not having the resources to keep the area going if there isn't enough water, I can see them caring less about Redding. The rest of California though, I agree, it doesn't make a lot of sense to just let go.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (TheRedRightHand)
And a shit load of magic, and some immortal elves, and a couple of dragons (at least one of them a great).

So what? Seriously, we aren't talking about people living in your cities pulling asymetric warfare by detonating volcanoes remotely. We're talking about a hostile army marching overland across your border in order to expand their kingdom. They have actual government buildings and distinct national territory and you can set it on fire with thermonuclear devastation.

Magic isn't as good as nuclear weapons. Great, they have invisible soldiers. That's awesome, but it's not "shooting mass drivers at your city from space" awesome.

If President McAlister had decided to stop the Tir Invasion he has a red phone that would have made that happen. Great Dragons don't win against a 30 tonne nickel-iron rod dropped from orbit.


QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
I honestly think that this one was just because the writers wanted ot more broken up. They wanted it that way and just never got around to making a good reason.


Bingo. That's the thing that hurts about California. It's not that the stuff happens is unlikely - it's that there isn't any thought into it at all. The population figures don't add up. The national boundaries don't stay consistent between publications. Major corporations are both in and not in the nation. Blithe statements about geology that don't make sense.

I mean seriously. The CFS had a population of 50 million in 2057. The PCC had a population of 11.9 million. Then the PCC annexed the largest city on the West Coast from the CFS and... then the PCC still has a population of only 12 million and now the CFS has a population of only 18 million. Did the Aztlan conflict kill 32 million people? What the fuck? Then Los Angeles gets hit by some as-yet unexplained disaster and Horizon is propelled to AAA status from getting the contracts to rebuild the CFS even though the CFS doesn't own that city any more!

The thing that's obnoxious is not that things involve people making unlikely decisions, it's that there's obviously no thought into this at all. There are seriously over thirty million missing people. It's like World War I happened - twice and it doesn't even get mentioned.

-Frank
Luddite
QUOTE
Magic isn't as good as nuclear weapons. Great, they have invisible soldiers. That's awesome, but it's not "shooting mass drivers at your city from space" awesome.


Thing is, the Tir had amazing weapons, considering how new their country was, and no one knows where they got them (was Lofwyr on the council of princes then back then, 'cause if so I have a guess). It comes from the Tir Tairngere sourcebook, which is second ed if I recall correctly, but the Tir forces simply outgunned, out-manouvered, and out-magiced the UCAS forces around Redding. In terms of armor and men they were roughly equal, and with the advantages of surprise, shorter supply lines, and dramatically superior magic the UCAS forces never had a prayer.

Also, nukes don't really work as well in the sixth world, they tend to fizzle, or at least do less damage then they should.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Frank Trollman)
Magic isn't as good as nuclear weapons. Great, they have invisible soldiers. That's awesome, but it's not "shooting mass drivers at your city from space" awesome.

If President McAlister had decided to stop the Tir Invasion he has a red phone that would have made that happen. Great Dragons don't win against a 30 tonne nickel-iron rod dropped from orbit

...my sentiments exactly.

Nearly had an NPC consider using the Brimstone™ on them in 56 after they screwed with her but that would have really messed with the canon junkies.
Crusher Bob
Then you drop ten nukes instead of one. You don't give up a large portion of your economy an equally large or large portion of your battered national prestige and so on just cause a little bit of your massive army was defeated. You tell your citizen in the occupied zone to make with the guerrilla warfare and tell them that you shall return.
MITJA3000+
Tir Tairngire might not have had nuclear weapons of their own, but Lofwyr sat on the council, and he, as we have found out later, does indeed have nuclear weapons, in addition to any other weapons of mass destruction that the possibly largest corporation on the world has. Granted, Lofwyr might not have gone to war with his corporation just to help those damn elves, but that the UCAS government might have been afraid of that.

I'm not trying to justify how the situation was handled by the writers, I'll have to check my Tir Tairngire and CFS books for more info. While it might be odd that UCAS didn't fight back, it really doesn't make sense to me why the elves even attacked at the first place? What did they have to gain?
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Mystic)
Tir Tairngire might not have had nuclear weapons of their own, but Lofwyr sat on the council, and he, as we have found out later, does indeed have nuclear weapons, in addition to any other weapons of mass destruction that the possibly largest corporation on the world has.


No he did not. The California War was in "early 2036" and Lofwyr was added to the council (over Ehran's objection) in "mid 2036". It's entirely possible that Lofwyr was added to the council to pay him for weapons shipments or something, but the UCAS still had orbital weapons platforms that Portland has no defense against to this day - so the UCAS had the fledgingly Elven Nation stopped on the table and decided not to do it.

-Frank
Luddite
Now that I think about it, I'm almost positive that CalFree had already seceded by the time the Tir invaded (probably for the reasons previously stated.) Again, it's in the Tir book at home, but I remember the newly independent CalFree State turned to the newly independent nation of Tir Tairngere, expecting support, and got a face full of mechanized infantry instead.

Oh, and nuking portland would be incredibly stupid. Not only would it piss off the NAN (who would be adversely affected by the fallout) and almost certainly irradiate Seattle I think the jets tream would carry the fallout all the way East to the UCAS. Space based mass drivers would be more doable, but that would be a deadly escalation. The Tir was clearly the aggressor in this case, but purposefully targeting a civilian population center with weapons of mass destruction is very hard to excuse.
FrankTrollman
Actually, invading past the California border is a violation of the Treaty of Denver and the UCAS was contractually obligated to drop nuclear weapons.

QUOTE
The Tir was clearly the aggressor in this case, but purposefully targeting a civilian population center with weapons of mass destruction is very hard to excuse.


....Except that the entire Treaty of Denver had already happened.

QUOTE (SR2)
No one was happy with the Treaty of Denver, but no one had a better solution. The magical capacity of the NAN offset the nuclear capacity of the three North American nations, which is why they agreed to give away large portions of their land and wealth.


Got that? During the first Injun war SAIM forces were playing Insurgent and dropping Ghost Dance bombs on people. They were essentially untargettable with WMD because they would hide their important people inside US cities. The Treaty of Denver agreed to give the NAN a territory that was smaller than what they wanted in exchange for having the United States refrain from nuking that territory.

But the Tir didn't have that protection. They were already a sovereign nation and they seceded from the Salish-Shidhe Council, not the UCAS. They had sprung up as a successor state from a treaty signatory and then they broke that treaty. The UCAS was sitting on assymetric WMDs and a mandate to use them.

-Frank
fistandantilus4.0
QUOTE (Luddite)
It comes from the Tir Tairngere sourcebook, which is second ed if I recall correctly, but the Tir forces simply outgunned, out-manouvered, and out-magiced the UCAS forces around Redding. In terms of armor and men they were roughly equal, and with the advantages of surprise, shorter supply lines


This is another one of the things that bothers me. To have come down in to Redding, they would have had to come down I-5, which goes through a 4 lane mountain range (right by Shasta I might add) and a couple of bridges for 100 miles or so. Even when you get to Redding, it's still only a small free way in the middle of a bunch of rolling hills. It's be a huge pain in the ass to move a large force through that, and impossible to move in unnoticed. It's like trying to invade Oregon. The terrain just sucks, but there's even fewer ways of entering.
TheRedRightHand
Ok, here's a good challenge. Can anyone take all of the crazy, conflicting, missing, odd and unusual published facts/info about CFS and somehow make a convincing storyline/metaplot, etc... out of it? Or at the very least try and come up with a plausible explanation.

Stuff like what happened to the 30million missing people? Did they relocate to UCAS? Did they disappear with all of the underground mass? Were that many people killed in the earthquake?

Feel free to add "previously unknown/reveled" information to make things work out.

Maybe to help us out someone (hint, hint, Frank, hint, hint) could post a list of all the crazy stuff in timeline order and point form for us to work off of?

And then later we can all read over peoples storyline and see which one is the best.
Cynic project
one and one are five is more logical than the back story of CFS.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (TheRedRightHand)
Maybe to help us out someone (hint, hint, Frank, hint, hint) could post a list of all the crazy stuff in timeline order and point form for us to work off of?

Alright. Let's start with the treaty of Denver:
  • 2018: The United States cedes the entire West to the NAN except California and Seattle, which they go to the mat for.
  • 2022: Race riots hit very hard in the Bay Area, and metahuman populations are virtually banished from the Peninsula. The metahumans are further divided around San Leandro with Dwarves to the south and Orks to the north. People refer to big sections of the Oakland region as "Orkland" and big sections of Fremont as "Halferville". This grows up gradually - as of course it must because at this point there isn't a single dwarf who is more than 11 years old during these riots. Similar riots hit Los Angeles and the national guard ends up walling off sections of the city that are later dubbed "El Inferno".
  • 2028: LA gets another quake, which destroys Los Angeles International Airport. I'm not sure how this works, because LAX is over 5 kilometers across. While it's pretty easy to imagine LAX being seriously damaged, having it be destroyed is pretty over the top.
  • 2029: The Great Crash occurs. The United States created Echo Mirage - initially recruited from within but when those people were destroyed EM recruited a bunch of smart alec, fast-talking tech-savvy kids from Silicon Valley to restore order.
  • 2029: The NAN declares awakened races welcome in tribal lands and a big exodus of metahumans from California begins.
  • 2030: The UCAS is formed. California holds a referendum on secession, which is defeated.
  • 2031: Echo Mirage defeats the great crash bug. The UCAS stands down the organization and sends the first wave of Deckers out to work in the private and black market sectors.
  • 2034: The Confederate-UCAS war begins. Aztlan backs the CAS and the country is split in two.
  • 2035: Afraid of sparking "secession fever" after the the secession of the Confederacy, the UCAS refuses to recognize Tir Tairngire. The governor of California, who had secessionist leanings, signs a bill that says that the state of California recognizes Tir Tairngire's independence.
  • 2036: Some books (SR2, NAGNA, Tir Tairngire) say that the UCAS sat back and twiddled their thumbs while the Tir invaded California, causing the secessionist movement to win completely in California. Other sources (SR4, CFS) say that the UCAS actually kicked California out just before the Tir Invasion. Obviously, there's a distinct "before or after" problem here and both statements cannot be true.
  • 2036-37: The citizenry of Northern California liberate themselves from Elvish rule through guerilla tactics and insurgency. Tir Tairngire is forced to withdraw from its Iraq in Redding, leaving a border between Eureka and Yreka.
  • Late 2036: Aztlan invades San Diego, unless this happened in 2044 as stated in some sources. According to some books (for example Aztlan) this was an invasion of the UCAS and according to others (example: CFS) this was an invasion of an independent Californian state. In any case, San Diego is somehow conquered with a single Light Armored Division. I don't even know what the hell that's about since even a generously equipped division (20,000 men) represents the number of vehicle stops the San Diego Police Department makes in 2 months.
  • 2037: California declares itself a sovereign nation. Or maybe it has already been a sovereign nation for an entire fucking year, depending upon sources. The Japanese Imperial Marines land in San Francisco and offer to provide the security contract for the city free of charge. Their "zero nuyen.gif bid" easily undersells other security contractors and they become the police all the way down to Palo Alto. The Japanese Military land in 2036 or 2037 either before or after the declaration of California as an independent country that is either before or after the Aztlan invasion of San Diego.
  • 2039: The Nights of Rage Happen. Thousands die.
  • 2042: The Japanese Imperial Marines renew their own security contract and are no longer subject to California Government Oversight in the San Francisco Bay Peninsula.
  • 2044: If Aztlan didn't capture San Diego in 2036 before (or perhaps after) California declares itself independent, then Aztlan conquers San Diego at this point.
  • 2046: Hackers destroy the results of an election. CalGuard is sent in to El Inferno (the walled off slums that are filled with criminals - think "Sacrifice Zones" from Snow Crash). Riots ensue, and the CalGuard is forced to withdraw in disgrace.
  • 2046: Having lost the battle for Sadr City El Inferno, the CFS nation for some reason declares Los Angeles a Free City. Of course, the population here is only two and half million, so they literally mean "Los Angeles" and not the entire LA region that has seven times that many people. I honestly have no idea what being a "Free City" means, since it apparently still counts as part of the CFS for population statistics.
  • 2053: The Second California-Tir Tairngire war happens. After the war goes poorly for the elves, Hestaby comes down on the elves and claims the Shasta area as her own - banishing the Elves up to Yreka.
  • 2057: The California Population is specifically 50 million people.
  • 2061: Earthquakes and Volcanoes hit California pretty bad. The Emperor of Japan orders the Imperial Marines back to the homeland. Keiji Saito refuses and declares the California Protectorate. Ares tells him to get his fucking hands off of the Silicon Valley and open warfare begins between Japanese Forces and Ares Mercenaries. Battle Lines are drawn in Milpedas, Colma, or Monterey depending upon who is writing it. Maps completely disagree with the text. Colored in protectorate regions go south past Monterrey and yet Santa Cruz County gets referrenced as an area south of Protectorate control. I can't make any sense of it.
  • December 2061: Earthquakes volcanoes and Shedim! The walls around El Inferno come crashing down and mass hysteria breaks out in the LA region. The PCC sends in peacekeepers at the request of the Los Angeles City Authority. For some reason this gives control of the LA region to the PCC even though they were only invited in by the LA City Authority (who control the little free city in the middle). It's kind of like a foreign nation conquering all of Rome because they were invited to restore order in Vatican City.
  • 2062: Hestaby takes her Shasta Kingdom and joins the Tir council of Princes.
  • 2062: Saito advances his Protectorate Agenda with increasingly large opposition as his police-state agenda becomes more blatantly obvious. Seiges in the Central Valley seem to be going on, but the geography doesn't match up super well to anything.
  • 2062: Shadows of North America confirms that the PCC has conquered the entire LA region, the remaining CFS now has only 18 million people in it, but the population of the PCC has increased by only one hundred thousand since Native American Nations Volume 1 (which was 11 years in the past).
  • 2065: One or more nuclear devices may have been detonated somewhere in California, it's hard to tell. System Failure isn't really clear on that point.
  • 2069: The Protectorate is defeated, Saito is gone, and the CFS controls everything norh of the PCC divide.
  • 2069: Something bad happened to Los Angeles, doing bad things to "California" - despite the fact that LA had apparently been annexed eight years previously. The bad thing is variously described as "earthquakes" and "lacunae". Apparently one way or another a bunch of land sunk and tsunamis covered hundreds of square kilometers with ocean water. In truth, it doesn't really matter what caused those events because the raw amount of land that was put under water inside of a year represents a big enough geological event that it would seriously destroy all life on Earth. I'm not even kidding, we're talking about being able to fit several chicxulub craters into the holes left over where the map shows kilometer-high mountains that are now below sea level.

Right. And that's a brief over-view of the timeline. Now let's talk about the fact that California apparently does not have an army despite the fact that they are "xenophobic" and on a war footing against all of their neighbors. Also, the nation is repeatedly reffered to as being rich and impoverished, often in the same paragraph.

-Frank

Nim
Yeah, that looks like a mess.

Setting aside for a moment, though, the question of 'what's the real story'...what's the right way to get that story on paper?

What I mean is, we're looking at the 4th edition of this game. There's a ream and more of published background material. New folks coming into the game not only don't want to read ALL of it, but they just plain can't...a lot of it's not available any more. And besides, as your CFS timeline demonstrates, some of it's now wrong.

So, does anyone have a clever idea on how to get some form of the useful parts of that stuff out something like a coherent fashion? I suspect a book of nothing but history wouldn't be successful enough to justify the effort, so that's probably out.
Luddite
This is kinda why I was confused about who the Tir was fighting. In the Tir sourcebook it refers to California National Guard, a force I assume to be secessionist. Possibly the reason the UCAS didn't respond forcibly to the Tir invasion is that the Keebs were doing their own work for them?
Nim
QUOTE (Luddite)
This is kinda why I was confused about who the Tir was fighting. In the Tir sourcebook it refers to California National Guard, a force I assume to be secessionist. Possibly the reason the UCAS didn't respond forcibly to the Tir invasion is that the Keebs were doing their own work for them?

Well, you don't want the territory you just lost to rebellion to be conquered by another power. But I suppose the UCAS /could/ have been thinking that if they let the Tir invasion run for a little while, it'd bring the secessionists running back to Uncle Sam to beg to be let back in.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Luddite)
This is kinda why I was confused about who the Tir was fighting. In the Tir sourcebook it refers to California National Guard, a force I assume to be secessionist. Possibly the reason the UCAS didn't respond forcibly to the Tir invasion is that the Keebs were doing their own work for them?

The California National Guard is a branch of the United Staes Government. Presumably it's part of the UCAS government a well

-Frank
Luddite
I am well aware that the national guard is a branch of the US government, thanks for the sarcasm, ass. However, the question of why the UCAS didn't intervene with space based weapons, massive air strikes, nukes, or what have you when it's territory was being invaded by Tir forces could be logically answered by the fact that the Tir was, in fact, destroying secessionist forces. Depending on the nature CalFree's secession it could be entirely plausible that elements of the CNG, if not the entire entity, would throw in with anti-UCAS forces.

Now, is anyone actually aware of how Cal became Free aside from declaring themselves so? Was the issue put to a second referendum, and the secessionist side won? Did the state government decide to leave the UCAS through fiat? Was there an armed conflict?

See, to me the melange of individual facts make the most sense if there was an armed struggle over the issue of secession, with the Redding area controlled by secessionist forces at the time of Tir Tairngere's invasion.
fistandantilus4.0
Tone it down
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