If not making any sense is not a problem for you, then yes you could.

Which is why I suggested barrel replacement instead.

And that was a very good suggestion, indeed the only reasonable way of solving the issue. I just wanted to make it clear that the other option is really, really stupid.

hmmm... interesting... coulda swore it said reload 1 round of ammunition when i looked at it... but oh well, i'm too lazy to check now =P

i still think i'll just never use it (and therefore never have to worry about it) =D

The ammo is 10(ml)x4, which means four, 10-round "Muzzle-Loader" muzzle loading tubes. Note that the only other weapon in the BBB denoted this way is the Aztec Striker "disposable" launcher. Also it takes 1 Complex action to load the entire "tube", as opposed to a magazine load in which you can load only rounds equal to your Agility.

So it reads to me like are either replacing a quick screw barrel (but it makes no mention of having to eject), or inserting a factory packed string of 10 rounds. Sort of like a tampon.

EDIT: Oh, and there really aren't many "details" at all. So, you know, as a GM you get to handwave and rule as you see fit. They have to eject a barrel first? Sure. *shrug*

EDIT2: Or the weapon is programed to eject/release whatever barrel/barrel lining tube the ammo comes in as part of the action of firing the last round in the stack of 10. After all it inherently has to know which round it is firing.

So, in fact, the rules don't present the gun like some people said they did. Whew. Either of your suggestions for reloading the gun are far more reasonable than loading it with standard caseless ammo one by one.

Thank God.

The thing that irks me is that reloading a cylinder with a speed loader is actually pretty much as fast as loading a magazine into a semi-automatic. There's a video from the history channel showing a guy firing six rounds, reloading, and firing again in the space of a second or so. With a speed loader (or a moon clip, where the rounds are actually clipped together), it should be a simple action.

I didn't read anywhere that ejecting a magazine takes a simple action. Given that on my 1911 all you do is push a button to drop the mag, I have trouble seeing how it could even take enough effort to be a free action.

Oh, it definitely makes no sense for simply dropping a detachable mag out of a conventionally designed firearm to be more than a free action. But it was a Simple Action in SR3 ("Remove Clip", sr3.107).

The Fubuki was another gun design that i drew up and the brief i got (along with logic) pointed to barrels that come preloaded with rounds and the tech to link up with the gun, as the barrel becomes the key factor in deciding how many rounds are to be fired at once | much like blakkie's "tampon" reference but instead of stopping blood the Fubuki starts the bleeding | the gun would then eject the entire barrel and you could drop another one in (same with if the most forward round failed-to-fire or the link was burned). Also the gun was all smartlinked up so you could choose what barrel fired what (and with four different round types you could be well prepared for any occurance).

...oh, and don't let a Hacker hack this gun while its sticking in your front waistband.

I would like to sincerely thank you for upholding logic in SR4.

Determining the type of gun that was used by studying the ammo probably wouldn't be any more difficult than it is for forensic investigators today. Plus, unlike other gunners, you're discarding the actual barrel, rather than just a clip when you reload... so if you don't have time to collect it before fleeing the scene, they've got the actual rifling to compare marks to. And you've no doubt touched the magazine with your bare hands at some point, so they have your prints, too. It's also highly likely that Yamaha would be required by law to have the gun mark each magazine it loads with a unique ID number for just this reason. You probably didn't buy the gun legally, so they won't have your address to immediately track you down as a legit owner - but if they ever catch you with it, you're in the soup for sure.

On the other hand, the high capacity would mean that you shouldn't have to switch the magazines out all that often. And in the type of gunfight where you'd empty that baby, the longer reload time means you'd be better off just switching to a backup piece (though, burst-fire or no, if you're using a light pistol as your main weapon, you've got enough problems as it is) anyhow. So in most cases, you'd probably be a bit better off than other people who have to worry about leaving clips behind.

You should remove and melt down the barrels of all your other guns after every time you use them, as well. Be sure to buy hand-made replacement barrels from your contact, so their ballistics aren't on file anywhere.

yeah, they knew the bullet they found in slag a, was fired from the barrel they found... that'll help positively ID you as the shooter...

Leave no trace on the barrell and that's end of story.

However, the artist that drew the weapon was told greater details about the gun's functionality than we were. Some of those details run counter to our assumptions based off the weapon's canonical description.

Because the description is brief, and assuming the barrel isn't meant to be removed doesn't completely mesh with the drawing, and "muzzle loading" are just words ment to generalize an wide range of weapons. Well so far just 2, but they are 2 very different kinds of weapons and this could be used to cover others in the gear supplement book. Replacing the barrel is still sort loading it from the muzzle end, take a look at the weapon pic and you can see what i mean. The "barrel" almost fully slides into the overall frame (this could also be just sort of an inner wall to the barrel).

Simple? I say more brief. But yes, it certainly seems to be 4 Complex actions by RAW. The "gesturing" i think is more about how to describe it to players during play, and concern for "realism". But there are also implication of ammo in hand, balistics evidence, leaving stuff behind evidence, etc. These are indeed a real factor that many GMs take into consideration in their SR game. I'm not one for hyper-realism but i do think this is relavent in the spirit of the type of game SR is usually played as.

@Azralon, from past commenst he posted here the artist seems to have been given some range of latitude in designing gear he drew, although in the end it had to be given editorial approval before going into the book. I'm not sure we should assume exactly what the artist was told, and how that figured into the picture. He also mentioned that a lot of the art was started/created before many things had firmed up in the book. Maybe he'll be kind enough to comment on this weapon?

actually, the artist *did* post in this thread =P

This may be a silly idea, but why not have a suppressor that fits over all four barrels at once. It would be bulky and would make reloading impossible, but it would increase the potential volume of a gas expansion chamber. It would, unfortunatly, make the gun fairly bulky.

Thanks! Cool. Hrrmmm, i somehow missed the updating of this thread till now. I didn't think there were so many posts i hadn't read.

EDIT: Too bad some of that text about the preloaded barrels in the brief he got didn't make it into the book.

In other words, it's the most reasonable way of sound suppressing the weapon that's been brought up in this thread so far. Not necessarily silly at all.

For reloading, I'd imagine you'd have to simply detach the suppressor and then re-attach it. It's significantly slow down reloading, but it's not like you want to end up having to reload this thing in combat anyway.

Funny, I find any alternative way of reloading the weapon to be preposterous. Merriam-Webster and MetalStorm, Inc. agree with me.

And the only way to do that, is to not put the barrel in the gun in the first place. There are bound to be grooves and latching surfaces that guide the barrel in and hold it into place, and there's bound to be some form of telltale scratches and marks left by the gun on the barrel when you slide the barrel into place, even if on the microscopic level.

Ya, that actually struck me too when i first took a close look at the picture. You haven't seen yet, right? Unfortunately tfxr doesn't have that particular pic up on his site.

The weapon is close to the length of the Predator IV. Plus it has folding stock that pivots 180º from the butt of the pistol grip to fold along nearly the full bottom length of the weapon (the bottom of the frame extends as far forward as the top). When they group it with "light pistol" it isn't by size.

The barrel that is pulled out is, er, i'd say 8" tops. I think he could have make it even a bit longer to bring it up closer behind the trigger hole, but not a lot.

That's going to require some seriously funky tech for it to work. It ain't your father's ammo that's for sure. I'm also not sure how you'd keep it from having an extremely wide variance in muzzle velocity from first round to last round in the barrel.

EDIT: I guess they could vary the propellant for each round, making it smaller the further back the round is. But still the first round or three are going to have a damn low velocity unless these things are short, short, short.