Indeed!

Also, sorry for taking so long, Wednesdays are killers for me.

Okay guys. I'm very bored, so will proceed to pull back the curtain a bit.
---
SI has been an enormous help, as has CD. It feels wrong to give the AGM karma for her character, but I say that only after considering doing so.

This run, because I don't have my books, is even more of a training run than I intended back when I assigned it.

What you haven't seen but should have by now (not an exhaustive list):

1. Matrix defenses (I simply had not gotten around to planning them when I lost my laptop)
2. Sophisticated shipboard defenses on the deck (I would really have needed a map/floorplan to design them, as well as my books)
3. Watchers and a lot of the astral defenses (See my reasoning in point 1 - plus I would need my books.)
---

Keep in mind the OOC subtext of this mission: It's a training mission, OOCly. For you and me alike. My intent was to learn the books as we went along - in the event, I'm doing something rather harder, learning SR4A basically without the books. (My preliminary verdict is "Oh my God this is hard".)

If you have books? Keep them handy. Be very specific in what tests you're running. SI will advise me on the crunch.

Before you encounter another ship to raid or a cargo to smuggle (in other words, by the time we wrap up this run, go through between-runs stuff, and get back out to sea), which should not be for a while given the pace we've been running at, I will endeavor to have all of the core books back available to me personally. By hook or by crook. I don't have much money, so it may mean torrenting, in which case I apologize in advance to CGL. (Ironically for a game like this, I don't particularly like the idea of piracy in RPG books - the RPG business, I'm given to understand, is very low-margin for the design shops (CGL and the like) who create the games we play. It's not like music, or software, or TV/movies, or even conventional publishing, where the margins are higher. But ordinarily I didn't just lose my entire collection of books mid-game.)

I know it's probably frustrating having a GM who doesn't have the basic tools of the trade (read: the books) handy. It's just as frustrating for me.

It's one more reason why I will endeavor to run things cinematically - meaning, we're going to have a little experiment in 'How diceless can Shadowrun get before it gets frustrating?'
---

On that note, I want to step back from all that and clap heartily for the "Original 7" players (everybody on this mission) again. Guys, you didn't have to come back. You did. You've stuck with me, in mostly good humor, even as your GM screws up the basics. Worry not, I will be a bit more generous with the rewards, or at least the karma, than usual when you dock.

Newbies:

You guys do surprise me. You've taken what could have been even worse pacing than the original crew's training routine and made it something interesting. Good going. Ntwi gets kudos for suggesting 'detainee/prisoner handling' as a course. I rejected it for my own plot-related reasons (namely that the crew has Zalermo to basically teach that in the event it really comes up), but I still want him/her to take a bow for suggesting it. Sadly, though, you don't get karma for training - though I do count what training you do here for the purposes of the training time rules in SR4A.

As ever, I've some new thoughts as I write this.

1. Newbies, my quick-run of timelines suggests to me you guys are likely to undergo a second week of training. I'll sit down and decide more on it later.
2. After this mission, what'll likely happen is a period of "independent duties" (read: You go out and do as you will). I don't foresee another Navy-assigned mission for a while in OOC time.
3. Does anyone know who among the mods I should contact re content issues guidance? I want to know if there are any red lines I should observe in wiriting cutscenes. I can say already that the drafts of the post-combat, especially when the team actually enters the holds, make my stomach turn. They're definitely not for younger players (in other words, I would hesitate before allowing anyone to play who I suspect is under 18, and especially under 13). Which is okay - But I don't want to trip over the TOS (which don't really offer any guidance) in writing the story.
4. On that note...Our 12th slot, formerly held by Marwynn, is open. Because this has come up, I'm going to say that I think we have enough combatants, especially with the newbies considered. You really do seem to have every combatant role covered. What the crew lacks, surprisingly to me, is a doctor. (Yes, I know Jane can do everything, but there's a certain thing about having a proper doc aboard.) Does not necessarily need to be an MD - an RN or PA is fine, but I think the Navy would look *first* for a competent MD. This means a doc first, and only *then* a combatant. This character would probably, because it's just one person, train off-camera before joining the crew. I'm not going to say that they *must* be a doctor, but that I would prefer at least a support character, not another primary-combatant.

That said. If you recruit this 12th person *and* they stick around for at least one run, you both get 1 karma point. Yes, referral karma.

Going too diceless in Shadowrun isn't fun, as part of the appeal is making your character to have good dicepools... speaking of which, I put Stealth and Perception rolls in my latest pose and got incredible results on both... so in keeping with my luck, they won't be very critical in nature, and then I'll get some spectacular botches... see the Trans-Global Ghost Cartels thread for how my luck goes there.

As for "mature content," you could always send the descriptions you're worried about as private messages to the players, that would avoid any issues with the board proper. Though less is more in some cases... the imagination can fill in worse details than anyone can put down graphically, so doing that might be a good approach.

Post them in spoilers with "mature content' warnings. If anybody complains take them down. Chances are nobody will.

So, something I only just thought about, but Jane and Malisandre both would have though of a long time ago. As soon as the jammer goes up, Malisandre is going to get dumped from the ship's nodes. I figure we can set up something so that if the signal to throw up the jammer happens, my drones will automatically give her a quick warning, hopefully enough for her to drop out safely.

Karoline: Naturally. That would be easy, so easy I already presumed it'd be dne.

Bridge team: Let me get this straight. Rusty and George are at the door to the bridge. John is where? Hanging from a ledge outside?

Engineering team: A free use of the totally-not-sheeted common sense edge I give to everybody:

Engineering contains the *engines*. Not just consoles, but the actual engines. This is mentioned because I do not want anybody getting the vision of a Star Trek style space that just has heaps of consoles.
---

Stepping back:

Knight Saber, I agree that part of the fun of Shadowrun is the creation and use of a kickass sheet. I agree totally. But Without my books, or the money to get new copies.../shrug.

In the description, I just climbed up to the upper level with the bridge rather than using the stairs. Generally good practice to stay out of sight until the last moment, especially since most cameras are trained on common entries and exits first.
I should be waiting at the same door or another one.

Ohhh, I think I get what you're doing! And, doh, I shoulda described the superstructure better.

There is no balcony or the like outside. Instead, the bridge has large windows (made out of what, I won't speculate, but they're designed not to break amidst the sometimes freakish Sixth World weather, including potentially hurricane-force winds) that provide a view of the outside world. It's just a sheer drop from the bridge (which would be about 40-70 feet above the deck) to the deck. There is one designed way in and out, and that's internal to the superstructure. This is protection both against hostile attack as well as protection from the elements.

That was my idea *before* everybody posted, however. I'm not sure what it'd look like in your conception, budoka.

Definitely did not match my conception. Shall I recon my old post to match? I'm already next to the door.

We can just presume you entered with the rest of Rusty's team. No need to retcon formally. The end result is the same.

New news: My book problem, with some help, has been solved - at least I now have access to the core books for SR4/SR4A, sort of.

Still not as good as having my personal (much, much larger) collection of SR books available, but it cures the issue for this game, for now anyway.

One of those reading this gets a cookie. They know who they are.

Hi everyone!

I'm new to the Dumpshock forums, but I would be interested in joining this game. I have a medic-type/magician character that I've been wanting to play that I think would be a good fit. His concept is that of a former member of a DocWagon High Threat Response team, where his role was to provide medical aid and magical support. He isn't much of a combatant, but he has plenty of medical training and health spells, as well as some support spells that made sense in the context of the volatile search and rescue operations that his team would have been involved in (detect life extended, armor, physical barrier, levitate, etc.). His training could be covered in large part by the training that he got from DocWagon, and I have his Medicine skill high enough that he would be considered an MD.

Penta, I'd PM you his stats, but 1) I'm not sure what the exact character creation rules were for this game (my PC right now is standard 400 point buy, no variations), and 2) it looks like I'm not permitted to send PMs until I've made at least 10 forum posts. Ah, well. Let me know if you are interested in having me as a player!

Yo zzyxzs, would cool to have you aboard. We're using a 400 to 420 build points for chargen. Since you can't send the information as a PM, I would recommend go ahead and posting it here for Penta later. User the

tags to write something that will compact down. The output will look something like this:

Good idea, budoka05. Are equipment or contacts being handled any differently than standard during character creation for this game?

Your get Kevin Roberts as a 2/4 Contact for free. Gear follows the standard rules (Avail 12 max), there are a few skill requirements, notably Swimming and Nautical Mechanic. This thread http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=28093 has all of the specifics for character creation in it.


Quote from one of Penta's(GM) postings:

What I'll require:

A background. It's a text medium, so I really look at these. Use the 20 questions as a starting point, but feel free to expand on them.
A character sheet. Use any of the automated character generators you wish. Keep in mind the required skill(s) I posted upthread, most importantly the requirements for swimming (preferably unchipped, for...reasons that should be obvious...) and Nautical Mechanics. NM you may have learned any -number- of ways, especially if you're just getting it at 1.
---

Chances are, we'll go back and forth on the background, the character sheet, and everything for a bit. You might try to slip stuff past me, I might catch it, I might notice an incongruity in the background or the char sheet...whatever. I try not to be a hardass, but I do look for holes. Eventually, however, I imagine I'll approve it. Once it's approved, it's locked-in and unchangeable except in-play.

I have such a great group of players, they practically take the word out of my mouth. You guys rock.

That looks like a good concept - the Navy would prefer an actual MD, but a DocWagon-trained paramedic isn't *bad*. However, I will say that before I would approve it, it obviously needs fleshing out into a full background.

And number crunching to fit said background. No trained doctors who are more capable of killing than a Navy SEAL, or a mage with resonance skills or something else goofy like that.

I'll work on it today. Thanks guys.

zzyxzs: When you get PMing capability (happens at 10 posts, I think), PM me. At present I don't think I can PM you. You're likely to be approved at a point where I can't group you in with the current newbie group of 4, so I'll almost certainly train you separately. Which, come to think of it, makes even more sense if you're mostly-medic.

I'll detail that via PM.

Everybody else:

Okay, main group. We had a good pace going, then everything went stop. Due, I suppose, to the weekend.

My class schedule for the spring semester (til May 11) is set:

Monday 1800-2045
Tuesday 1800-2045
Friday 1100-1345
All 3 of these classes will likely require work outside of class, so I can't say I'll be available whenever I'm not in class, but I should be pretty available.

What this means more directly: Monday and Tuesday I will likely be able to move at a blistering pace to respond to your posts, especially now that I have the books (only at home, though - this spare has basically no battery, so no bringing it to school).

Newbies: I'm really waiting on you guys, insofar as there's much for me to do - post at will to cover up through the 17th, consistent with my notes on that thread. The 18th, being the day of the operation going off, will be handled specially by me with notes that deal with that day.

Try to PM me if you can. Otherwise I'll get to 10 posts eventually.

Nah, I've not even thought up what I'd need to PM.

I did later, and found out that not being able to PM works both ways.

Alright, well I'm getting closer. Haven't had much time to write up a background so far today, but I've been trying to catch up on some of the game threads a bit.

Are there medical facilities on the ship, or should I be buying my own medical shop?

There's already an aeronautics shop aboard. I am unsure the Fedallah could also fit a medical shop. I am, as ever, willing to be convinced - but my opening position is to say it couldn't.

"Quick! We need to extract the bullet! Get me a, uh, wrench and a pipe cutter?"

Yes, yes. That said, the point remains. Using the ship equipment list and such posited on page 1, find me the SPACE for a medical shop, by RAW.

You can't, all the slots were used up.

I thought we had some kind of medical drone or some sort of semi-medical space somewhere. We have medkits for what that is worth, but I could have sworn we had something.

I could have, too, Karoline, but I can't find it on the sheet on page 1. Now, I am blind, so it may be me, but I don't think it is.

Well, we have:
Med Station Rating 6
and
CrashCart

The first is basically a stationary medkit, and the second actually has a full valkery system (or whatever) which is fairly helpful for medical procedures.

It isn't exactly ER quality stuff, but we should be able to perform minor surgery, or perhaps even major depending on skill levels (Jane has a DP of about 18, and so can perform Delta grade surgery if she really wanted)

Cool. One less thing to worry about.

"Doc"
David Costas

Background

"Doc"
David Costas

Character Sheet

Okay, I should now be eligible for PMs. Let me know if there is anything that needs to be changed, or any other constructive feedback.

But with no space for a medical room, all of the surgery gets done on the dining room table?

Yep. Thats correct. Welcome to life onboard ship, where rule number 1 is 'there is never enough room'.

Take a look at Master and Commander when they close up for battle stations - look at space that once was mundane and domestic getting turned into something needed for battle.

Ultimately, what do you need for an operating room table. Light - you can rig those above a mess table easily. Sterility - cover the table in a sterile sheet, use sterile implements. Room to move around - remove the chairs to another compartment, dismantle the benches. Yup - you guys are operating on a dining table; same as the rest of the ocean going world. (Ignoring large warships and medical ships).

Actually that's ridiculous, between armour, weapons and any other gear your carrying you've got what 15-30 kg of gear, add in the effects of wet clothing and thats a -7 to -15 DP penalty. Now try staying afloat for the time it takes the ship to finish the fight that you fell overboard during, come back round and pick you up. Now consider the fact you may well be injured, so suffering additional negative dive pools; also the fact that you've just fallen at least 2 metres (the bridge on the ship you guys are storming is 23 metres up - which at 2.3m/deck is 10 decks), so will have to resist that damage. Hell yes I want a life jacket that I can use in an emergency.

Real life descriptions of people falling overboard in full gear essentially describe descending fairly quickly, followed by bobbing to the surface once they activate their life-jacket.

Lets look at this in more detail; lets say you fall over in the initial boarding (worst case), lets assume that it takes the rest of the guys to secure the ship in 6 minutes. Thats 6 minutes its been going away from you, at 20 knots thats 2 nm its gone, at 12 its 1.2 nm. Face facts, 1 guy in the water is less important than the rest of the boarding going smoothly (assuming a difficult boarding); so the [i]Fedallah[i/] is not going to want to stop in the water to pick you up whilst its involved in supporting the boarding. The Zod is going to be concentrating on inserting the boarding team, so won't be able to pick you up straight away - and chances are if you've fallen into the water then there are other issues with the boarding.

So the Fed's steamed 1.2 miles away from you, and now has to come back. It takes them 6 minutes to come back and pick you up. Thats 12 minutes you've been in the water, more than enough time for you to drown.

No bridgewings? or like in the second photo (the cruise liner). IE there are bridgewings, but they arn't accessible from the main deck externally.
Because a ship without bridgewings is going to be annoying to berth. Even factoring in piloting.

Imp: Not on all of the photos of container ships I've seen.

zzy: My comments will come by PM.

I think the difference of opinion about life jackets stems from the mental images that each of us has of them. The generic orange foam life jacket is certainly not something that any of us should be wearing during boarding actions (or just about any other time). A self inflating (CO2 cartridge) bladder sewn into the shipboard uniform is a different matter. The only system like that in the books though is for full blown military armor and leaves you floating but immobile on the surface.

For those of us with cybergills, we can simply take our time underwater to remove gear or otherwise acquire flotation. Internal Air tanks can exhale into their clothing/armor/whatever to provide some flotation while using air from the internal tank for 2 hours. Most of the heavily cybered personnel have one or the other of these systems I believe.

For the personnel with less cyber, most of these personnel will be carrying far less gear. Armor, pistol, SMG, and abit of ammo should be no more than 15kg max. They can hold their breath for 48 seconds, which should be more than enough time to get out or drop the heavy pieces of gear.

If a flotation device can be an armor accessory than I could see more people having them, but if there was any encumberance I don't think most of the crew could wear them in addition to any armor of note.

GM ruling needed, guys, or are you just arguing to argue?

Is 12 minutes actually long enough for any of our characters to have drowned? I know Jane can hold her breath for 2.5 hours, and I'd imagine that most others have some form of breathing 'ware or a gill or something that they carry on themselves.

I'd be honestly surprised if anyone (of our characters) was unable to survive for half an hour or more at sea.

@zzyxzs Something I noticed while reading over your background. Said your parents threatened to call CrashCart, but that isn't a company, it is a drone, and I believe even made by DocWagon, though I'm not certain.

Not, you know, a huge deal buster on your character or anything, but just figured I'd point it out.

Crashcart is a company - competitor to DocWagon owned by Yamatetsu/EVO.

Oh, weird... I thought it was just the drone. Bit confusing.

Edit: Oh, I see, it is a CrashCart brand medical drone, that's why I had that confused.

After talking it over with Penta, here is Doc in his (hopefully) final form:


BACKGROUND

CHARACTER SHEET

And everybody say hi to your new doctor. Certified not a quack.

No. 12 minute is ong enough to take 1 Stun box of damage. Assuming you fail a Swimming (2) test. Hmm thats crazy talk. But RAW. (Oh and arguing for the sake of arguing - I like the image of our Pirate boarding teams wearing ex-mil boarding-party life jackets - but also want to be able to use edge when I've been blown off the side of the ship almost dead to pull my LG before slipping into unconsciousness).

And your right, there are no viable rules for flotation aids. I'd house rule life-jackets with a small negative to Swimming distance (say -2 metres) and large DP bonus to treading water (say +6 dice or similar). Also a large DP bonus to anybody trying to spot you (the "object stands out" bonus would be apropos).

Still this page gives good piccies of various types of life jacket. Ignore the top one - thats silly for a boarding party - scroll down to the bottom and then come up. Look at the jackets they're wearing there - fit nicely OVER armour. Dark (until inflated then they get the high vis colours and reflective tape) and don't get in the way of carrying lots of gear (unless inflated, trying to do stuff with them inflated is awkward).

Yeah, the rules are currently set up that you can tread for (str) minutes at a time and only take 1 stun damage, though there is no way to resist this one stun damage (because it is fatigue from keeping yourself above the water), so even Jane can hang out for around a quarter hour or more without being totally exhausted, and I don't see any reason she couldn't take advantage of being able to hold her breath for ages by simply not bothering to keep her head above water and going under for a while.

If you think about it realistically, most people that know the first thing about swimming can tread water for ages, especially if their life depends on it. Most people can also do a decent job of simply floating so that they don't even get tired as quickly. I mean have you ever taken a kid to the pool before? They can play in the pool for an hour or more easy, and most of the time they're doing more tiring activities than simply treading.

You also hear fairly regularly about how someone has been out treading water for hours before they're found and rescued. You generally don't hear about how someone drowned in 5 minutes after they fell overboard (Unless they're drunk, don't know how to swim, or maybe got a cramp because they came from the all-you-can-eat buffet)