Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Starting a new game.
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Welcome to the Shadows
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
ravensoracle
OK I'll fix that.
Red-ROM
Max Broman
the unanswered questions;
[ Spoiler ]

Max in action:

The game that died
pbangarth
Bongo Slade 53 questions:
[ Spoiler ]
zzyxzs
Flax
[ Spoiler ]


Survey
[ Spoiler ]
BlackHat
Also, one thing that I might change about Tag is where I spent the last 100 karma. Depending on which set of Matrix rules we settle on, there might not be any reason to increase the decryption and sniffer program ratings, rather than the logic, or something like that - but it shouldn't change much.
ravensoracle
Well since I am getting no true answer with my post on using Stat + Skill + Program, then I am going to go with the standard published rules. I'll have to find a statistition to run the numbers for me on that idea later. You know it really peeves me when I specifically ask to keep with just the system I am asking about and 90% of the conversation is something else. Guess that's any forum though.

Starting Monday, I will take one character a day and truely run the numbers and nitpick it. I know Bongo was submitted first but I think I am going to start with Tag to allow pbangarth some time to deal with RL issues that he and I have talked about. Tag seems the closest to being done to me at this point. I will still give feedback to others about their characters and am happy to answer questions. I am just letting you know how I plan to devote my time.
BlackHat
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 13 2010, 11:00 AM) *
Well since I am getting no true answer with my post on using Stat + Skill + Program, then I am going to go with the standard published rules. I'll have to find a statistition to run the numbers for me on that idea later. You know it really peeves me when I specifically ask to keep with just the system I am asking about and 90% of the conversation is something else. Guess that's any forum though.


Pretty much. I think the Stat+Skill+Program idea is a good one, but would involve a lot of changes to all of the tests. You could probably eyeball something like adding 1 to the threshold of all one-time tests (assuming that an average person would have 3 more dice, and on average that would net 1 additional hit), but for extended tests, it is a lot more difficult, because that one program would add an average of 1 hit to every roll... so you'd have to do some more in-depth analysis to figure out how many intervals (on average) you'd expect each test to take, and then add that much to the original threshold.

Edit: Also, anything that imposes a dicepool penalty (or modifies a threshold) would have less of an impact, if you had more dice to work with. So you'd probably want to think about that a bit too. Stealth programs would be less useful if the opposition had more dice with which to spot you.
ravensoracle
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Mar 13 2010, 10:07 AM) *
Pretty much. I think the Stat+Skill+Program idea is a good one, but would involve a lot of changes to all of the tests. You could probably eyeball something like adding 1 to the threshold of all one-time tests (assuming that an average matrix user would use an average program at rating 3, and on average that would net 1 additional hit), but for extended tests, it is a lot more difficult, because that one program would add an average of 1 hit to every roll... so you'd have to do some more in-depth analysis to figure out how many intervals (on average) you'd expect each test to take, and then add that much to the original threshold.


Highlighted for emphasis.


That is not my stronghold. I'm an electronics tech. Statistics never interested me so I never delved into past what I had to. I would love to see the numbers on it I just know there are people on this board that can run them faster than I can.

EDIT: Perhaps add a skill test of Logic + Hacking test to the Stealth program where hits add to the effectiveness.
ravensoracle
Let me clarify something, I am not sure I made myself clear about it. My mistake so here is a better explanation.

You get 750 Karma for basic character creation this can include 2 Initiations/ Submersions. Mundanes get the extra allowance of money and Avail toward gear. You then get an additional 100 Karma for Advancement using the table from Sr4A. Initiations/ Submersions are limited to two. Does that clarify things?

EDIT: It may be helpful to list the 100 Karma separately.
cndblank
An NPC remote Hacker can take a lot of the heavy lifting off the GM and keep the game running faster.

That way the PC hacker can deal with on site issues.


Best if the NPC hacker is a little AADD so that the PCs have to keep them focused.
cndblank
Double
BlackHat
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 13 2010, 11:00 AM) *
...I think I am going to start with Tag ...


I'll do my best to update Tag's equipment before Monday. I noticed one small error, today, and have about 40K left over to fix it, so I don't think it will be a big deal, but it will save you time if I get it all fixed up before then.
cndblank
Can we move the final PCs to where they are all together at the front of the thread if it is even possible?
ravensoracle
I will open another thread in about a day or so we can post characters there.
Crank
For submission:

Sidewinder: Human Physical Adept - Combat/Infiltration

Stats:
[ Spoiler ]


50 Questions:
[ Spoiler ]

Background:
[ Spoiler ]
Red-ROM
Max Broman (reformated)


[ Spoiler ]


Attributes(500 karma including magic and edge)
[ Spoiler ]


Skills:(261 Karma)
[ Spoiler ]

Qualities:(+ 10 net Karma)
[ Spoiler ]

Wares:
[ Spoiler ]

powers:(5 karma)
[ Spoiler ]


Gear:( nuyen.gif 57,500 or 23 Karma)
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts:(71 karma)
[ Spoiler ]


Game Information:
[ Spoiler ]


Awards:
[ Spoiler ]
SleepIncarnate
Here's a quicky look at Pyro, the mage of doomy doom doomness.

[ Spoiler ]


Attributes
[ Spoiler ]


Active Skills
[ Spoiler ]


Knowledge Skills
[ Spoiler ]


Qualities
[ Spoiler ]


Magic
[ Spoiler ]


Gear
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts:
[ Spoiler ]


[ Spoiler ]
Glyph
All right, here's the first draft of Tristan:

Stats
[ Spoiler ]

Background
[ Spoiler ]

Quick question: Do you guys want any of our characters to know each other, or should they meet for the first time when they get recruited for the mission?
Red-ROM
hey glyph, i'm counting 415 on core attributes there
BlackHat
Semi-Final version of Tag:

Basic differences was I reduced the pilot of the Mr. Fixit to 3, and laoded up on sensor-softs. Still about 35,000 unspent nuyen, if anyone has any ideas.

Image of "Tag"

Using [850 karma]

"Tag" - Covert Surveillance, Infiltration, and Electronic Warfare Specialist (Passable Hacker, could be easily modified/equipped to assist in other roles)
[ Spoiler ]
BlackHat
QUOTE (Red-ROM @ Mar 15 2010, 06:48 AM) *
hey glyph, i'm counting 415 on core attributes there

Well, I would have thought that 425 or less was fine (1/2 our starting karma) but then I realized that the rules were clarified so that we're building a character with 750 karma, and then get another 100 for post-char-gen stuff. So that would put the attributes over half (unless 40 or so of that came from the 100 post-char-gen karma, which is probably possible).
Glyph
Remember that for Attributes, you can spend half of your starting Karma, plus twice the listed BP cost for your metatype. So an ork can spend 375 + (20 x 2), or 415.

I didn't differentiate between the 750 and the 100 Karma because I didn't do anything post-chargen with it (buying Attributes past the 415 limit, getting a second skill at 6, etc.).
BlackHat
Ah, I didn't notice you were an ork. That'd do it, too. wink.gif
BlackHat
QUOTE (Glyph @ Mar 15 2010, 12:41 AM) *
Quick question: Do you guys want any of our characters to know each other, or should they meet for the first time when they get recruited for the mission?

Probably up to ravensoracle. The BG I put together for Tag through his 50 questions leaves either avenue open, for him.
ravensoracle
Knowing each other is completely up to you. Come up with a good story and I'll most likely approve it. It does take some of the awkwardness out of the initial meeting.
Crank
I know you said that you're going to be nitpicking each character this week. Does this mean that you're going to finish that and then make the final selection?
ravensoracle
I'll be making a final selection this week. I like the characters that have been submitted and I MAY go above my limit of 5. But if I do I will be very strict about keeping the game going. I think I've been pretty explicit about this from the beginning, that I have no qualms about dropping someone who drags down the game. Especially if it is at risk of dying.

This next part may seem like a jerk move, it does to me. But I am doing it anyway. If anyone has seen that a player that has submitted a character has been the death of another game, PM with this information. I won't call anyone out in a public forum but I want to know so it can be addressed. I am putting a lot of work into this game. I'm an insomniac so I have a lot of late nights already devoted. I just don't want to waste my time on a venture that may likely fail. The chances already for a game to survive on these forums are slim.
BlackHat
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 15 2010, 11:24 AM) *
Knowing each other is completely up to you. Come up with a good story and I'll most likely approve it. It does take some of the awkwardness out of the initial meeting.

This will probably be easier later in the week, after people know who is in the team.

That said, I put some stuff in Tag's BG/50 about being extracted from a research facility, and being kept (as additional payment - and, later, as a contributing member) by the team which did the extraction. In order to make room for Tag to join a new team, however, I wrote that the other team had a botched job, and are now either dead, laying low, or retired... which leaves Tag looking for another way to make itself useful, and to pay for its maintenance.

If Tag is a part of the final cut, and anyone is interested, having the current team be the team that did the extraction (or at least have a few people in common) would be fine by me, and makes for a better story than Tag's old team conveniently disappearing. But, I can work with it, either way.
cndblank
I'm all for everyone knowing at least one other person.

Keeps the game going.

Best of both worlds really since we really are trying to learn how to work together. wink.gif


I'm open to suggestions on joint background.
cndblank
Kit's sheet been updated. Still have not spend final 100K and gear is not finalized.

Touching up the 50 questions next.

Open to suggestions
cndblank
On casting an illusion spell on sensors.

It is 4 successes to overcome the Object Resistance of a camera or sensor with an illusion spell, correct?

And that applies even to a drone's sensors?

ravensoracle
I'd have to look it up and I am AFB, anyone know off hand.
BlackHat
Tough to say. A drone (and other computers, vehicles, etc) are "6+" but electronic equipment is "4". I suppose for illusion spells you don't need to affect the entire drone, just its camera-sensor, so it looks reasonable to me at first glance.
ravensoracle
Just got a call. The Universal Joint just went out on my SUV, I am having to got pick it up and trailer it home. I will be on for the next hour while I wait for the trailer to get here but then my plans are shot for the rest of the day. Take all plans for the game so far and bump it back at least a day.
zzyxzs
Official errata has changed object resistance thresholds to 3 for sensors, 5+ for drones, hasn't it?
BlackHat
QUOTE (zzyxzs @ Mar 15 2010, 01:52 PM) *
Official errata has changed object resistance thresholds to 3 for sensors, 5+ for drones, hasn't it?

Yeah, I just looked that up, and you're right. The fact that it calls out sensors, specifically, rather than just "electronic equipment" makes it pretty clear in this case that the OR should be 3.
cndblank
So it is 3 successes to fool the drone's sensors that I'm not here with my Improved Invisibility spell.

And 5 successes to use my Shape Metal spell to change all the drone's metal parts to liquid (Bye Bye firing pin, Bye Bye magazine spring, Bye Bye ball bearings, Bye Bye 4 independent electric motor drive wheels. Bye Bye antenna, Bye Bye battery cable, Bye Bye drone)


Pretty damn hard to do but sounds fair considering.
ravensoracle
While I do reward creativity, I will admit I am a hardass about allowing something that is a insta-kill spell like that when there are other spells out there designed to take out a drone that require more hits and cause greater drain.

EDIT: For something like that I'd probably up the threshold slightly. I like to think that I am a laidback GM and let most things fly but I do differentiate between rule use and abuse. Not saying your idea isn't a good one. I like it, but like I said I'd probably add a to the threshold simply because of using it in a combat application like that and expecting inst-death.
pbangarth
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 15 2010, 01:46 PM) *
While I do reward creativity, I will admit I am a hardass about allowing something that is a insta-kill spell like that when there are other spells out there designed to take out a drone that require more hits and cause greater drain.

EDIT: For something like that I'd probably up the threshold slightly. I like to think that I am a laidback GM and let most things fly but I do differentiate between rule use and abuse. Not saying your idea isn't a good one. I like it, but like I said I'd probably add a to the threshold simply because of using it in a combat application like that and expecting inst-death.
Rather than upping the threshold, you might consider that the machine is made of contiguous and interlocking pieces that are still separate, and take into account line of sight. Whatever metal the the mage can see, he can affect, but other pieces not fused to the parts he can see remain untouched. This may make the spell still a damn fine spell, but not necessarily an 'instakill'.
Crank
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 15 2010, 02:46 PM) *
While I do reward creativity, I will admit I am a hardass about allowing something that is a insta-kill spell like that when there are other spells out there designed to take out a drone that require more hits and cause greater drain.

EDIT: For something like that I'd probably up the threshold slightly. I like to think that I am a laidback GM and let most things fly but I do differentiate between rule use and abuse. Not saying your idea isn't a good one. I like it, but like I said I'd probably add a to the threshold simply because of using it in a combat application like that and expecting inst-death.

Another option is in cases like that, treat the spell like a damaging manipulation spell. Give the Drone resistance instead of the threshold of 5 and net hits do damage.
ravensoracle
That is an interesting way of putting it. I like that and will use it. As an aside, anyone feel free at any time to make suggestions like this anytime. I think we're all experienced players and many of us GM. I know I am not perfect and others have ideas better than mine.
zzyxzs
Also, the object resistance threshold for drones is "5+" not 5, so a threshold higher than 5 would still be within the listed guidelines.

On another note, I've updated my sheet with the latest changes (mostly contacts, gear, qualities, and an updated questionnaire) here.
cndblank
I was looking for an example of a spell that needed the full 5 successes vs a simple physical Illusion spell only needing the 3 rather than plotting any insta-Drone-icide. wink.gif

The only being able to change the metal that is visible (or directly connected to a visible piece of metal) would certainly slow you down considering how common plastic panels are on cars now let alone in 50 years. And is perfectly valid. Had the same issues come up when my players tried to Tunnel up a mountain using Shape Stone. And I certain agree that the smaller drones would likely have little metal in them at all.

I picked Shape Metal because I assume that HVAC duct works are still use metal (tin/aluminum) and metal grates are still common in air and sewer systems. I understand Jail bars are usually ceramic or plasteel to prevent monofilament saws from making short work of them.


Well Shape Material has the same drain as a Power Ball spell. And you have to break the material free from an existing structure (you can reduced the structure rating by the force of the spell per combat turn which would do in most medium drones but then so would a Powerball.)

Not to mention that it would do nothing to Plasteel or carbon fiber composite.


How about using Animate or Glue against a drone (as a purely academic examples)?


Speaking of being creative, One thought does come to mind.
Shape Metal is an area effect spell.

So assume a gun is mostly metal and most of the metal components are connected
And given that she could not effect a gun designed with ceramic or plasteel components.
Also assuming that there is no shortage of targets that are clearly visible and with in the area of effect.

How any could she weld solid (and unusable) in a single action? One per force of spell per combat turn? Or just one per action?
Or is that being ridicules?

Course the damm miniguns are likely compost barrels design to handle the super high heat levels.
Red-ROM
QUOTE (Glyph @ Mar 15 2010, 07:37 AM) *
Remember that for Attributes, you can spend half of your starting Karma, plus twice the listed BP cost for your metatype. So an ork can spend 375 + (20 x 2), or 415.

I didn't differentiate between the 750 and the 100 Karma because I didn't do anything post-chargen with it (buying Attributes past the 415 limit, getting a second skill at 6, etc.).


I figured as much, but your karma already added up to 850 with the core attributes listed at 345, i'm not trying to be a dick, feel free to check my math too
ravensoracle
Ok guys before I leave I have made a decision. I like the characters submitted so far so I am going out on a limb and aloowing all characters submitted to join the game. I am still with-holding final approval on all characters until I get to look over them better but the concepts are accepted. Welcome to the game everyone. Now don't disappoint me and let's all work to keep this game going.

To move things along a little quicker, everyone review each others characters. Point out any number crunching errors or glaring mistakes. I promise as soon as I get the car situation dealt with I will dedicate time to final approval of characters.
zzyxzs
QUOTE (Crank @ Mar 13 2010, 06:20 PM) *
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit: 6/6 [6] {500¥}
-Biomonitor {300¥}


The Urban Explorer Jumpsuit has a built-in biomonitor. You just saved 300¥!
malachite333
Since we're doing the peer review thing here's my character.


[ Spoiler ]


Attributes
[ Spoiler ]


Qualities
[ Spoiler ]


Active skills
[ Spoiler ]


Knowledge skills
[ Spoiler ]


Adept powers
[ Spoiler ]


Gear
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts
[ Spoiler ]


50+ questions
[ Spoiler ]


Background
[ Spoiler ]







pbangarth
Wow, malachite333, two of us with Sensing and Psychometry! And other Adept powers the same too. I wonder if Bongo and Antony know each other.
malachite333
You're right they do share a lot of powers. If Bongo ever got shot up and needed patching up off the books they could very well have met.
Glyph
QUOTE (Red-ROM @ Mar 15 2010, 01:49 PM) *
I figured as much, but your karma already added up to 850 with the core attributes listed at 345, i'm not trying to be a dick, feel free to check my math too

Null sweat, I know you were just trying to be helpful.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012