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LurkerOutThere
Actually I'll bow out, while i'm intrigued Czich has issues with me and I've already got a lot on my plate with my own game as is.
ravensoracle
So far I have 8 people interested. Unless already told otherwise, I am thinking having a rough draft by Fri is reasonable. Like is said I am not starting the game for a minimum of 2 weeks so that I can develop a good story around the characters and ensure that I can get all my pending characters completed.

The interested players are:
SleepIncarnate
crizh
pbangarth
BlackHat
Crank
malachite333
cndblank
Glyph

I would like to have basic concepts done by Friday so we can all see what roles are being filled. And I may increase the number to six if I think the game will not die because of inactivity.

EDIT:Sorry to see you go Lurker
pbangarth
OK, so I took a couple of hours I really couldn't afford and reworked Bongo Slade in the Karmagen system. I will look over the stats etc. a few times before I post them, but here is a thumbnail sketch of Bongo for any who might want to know a prospective teammate:

- A charming, very talented musician. He can stop the show with his music. Literally. He knows by the third song of the first set who he will be sleeping with tonight.

- He knows a drummer in Lagos... a shaman up by Hudson Bay.... and a pawn broker in Seattle. He's bought it cheap here and sold it dear there.

- If there is some way, magical or mundane, to detect something, Bongo probably has it. Or soon will. The falling pin in the next room; the manastorm 10 kilometers away.

- He remembers everything. Everything. What she was feeling at that moment; how many knives were in the left drawer; what turns it took, in which order, to get through the sewer to the mafioso's bathhouse.

- He can learn the basics of a new language in a couple of hours. he can learn the exact lay of a room in a glance.

- If it isn't nailed down, it's a missile weapon for Bongo. (Nevertheless, he is more a lover than a fighter.)

- He can get in. He can get out. he can recite poetry and sing from below her balcony, and climb to her when she begs him to "Come to me!"

- He dreams. One day... one day he will play the heartbeat of Gaea!
SleepIncarnate
Ok, I know if I don't ask this, someone eventually will, so yes/no to the following:
Possession traditions?
Simsense Accelerators?
Cyborgs/Cyberzombies?

And while it is sad to see Lurker go, I can understand that he's got a lot going on with his game. I on the other hand am not GMing (though I am AGM for a game that's fairly quiet atm with lots of people having RL issues) and while crizch has problems with me as well based on first impressions, I have no intentions of leaving just because of that, so will have at least one concept to you, if not two or three, by Friday.
cndblank
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 9 2010, 03:01 PM) *
I was a computer programmer for 13 years. I have never played a decker/hacker. It just seems too much like the life I left.


Know that feeling.
BlackHat
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 9 2010, 12:37 PM) *
5. Magic/TM PC's may Initiate/ Submerge twice, Mundanes got to spend up to 150 Karma on gear.


Another question: Is this the extent of post-char-gen advancement you would like to see? or are these just the two aspects that have limitations?

For example, after initiating, may an awakened person also spend karma to raise their magic attribute? Or could a character with one skill at 6 raise another of his skills above 4?

I'm assuming the answer to these questions is no, based on the KarmaGen writeup, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I suspect you are going to see a lot of awakened characters, because access to up to two metamagic techniques (which PBP characters rarely get access to) is probably a lot sexier than an extra 100-grand that can only be spent purchasing more of the same equipment your character already had access to. That's not necessarily a problem, just an observation about rule #5.
cndblank
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Mar 10 2010, 08:38 AM) *
I suspect you are going to see a lot of awakened characters, because access to up to two metamagic techniques (which PBP characters rarely get access to) is probably a lot sexier than an extra 100-grand that can only be spent purchasing more of the same equipment your character already had access to. That's not necessarily a problem, just an observation about rule #5.



I expect you are right.

In my own campaign I offer extra starting Cred and access to higher availability ware/gear to Mundanes to help balance it out (without much luck so far to be sure).

crizh
On the same theme as Blackhat's question, what about stuff like Quickening, buying Metamagic/Power Points, etc?

There's loads of things a character could spend karma on other than just straight initiation.
ravensoracle
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Mar 9 2010, 09:34 PM) *
Ok, I know if I don't ask this, someone eventually will, so yes/no to the following:
Possession traditions?
Simsense Accelerators?
Cyborgs/Cyberzombies?


Possession -No
Simsense Accelerators -Yes
Cyborgs/ Cyberzomies - No


QUOTE (BlackHat @ Mar 10 2010, 07:38 AM) *
Another question: Is this the extent of post-char-gen advancement you would like to see? or are these just the two aspects that have limitations?

For example, after initiating, may an awakened person also spend karma to raise their magic attribute? Or could a character with one skill at 6 raise another of his skills above 4?

I'm assuming the answer to these questions is no, based on the KarmaGen writeup, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I suspect you are going to see a lot of awakened characters, because access to up to two metamagic techniques (which PBP characters rarely get access to) is probably a lot sexier than an extra 100-grand that can only be spent purchasing more of the same equipment your character already had access to. That's not necessarily a problem, just an observation about rule #5.


Yes, but only with the last 100 Karma and you must pay the Advancement Costs from Sr4A.

QUOTE (cndblank @ Mar 10 2010, 08:19 AM) *
I expect you are right.

In my own campaign I offer extra starting Cred and access to higher availability ware/gear to Mundanes to help balance it out (without much luck so far to be sure).


You've got a point there and I think that I agree with that. Mundanes will have access to Availibility 16 Gear, Avail 24 With Restricted.

QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 10 2010, 09:44 AM) *
On the same theme as Blackhat's question, what about stuff like Quickening, buying Metamagic/Power Points, etc?

There's loads of things a character could spend karma on other than just straight initiation.



See the above answer.
zzyxzs
I'd like to register my interest. I'll send a full concept over PM, but the idea is a Mystic Adept that specializes in social infiltration. The face-changing, voice copying, "I'm now you, and you are either unconscious or dead" kind of infiltration.
ravensoracle
Ok I am asking that everyone put the costs, whether in Karma or cash for gear, on their character sheet. This will make it 10X easier on me for double checking your sheet and will allow me to concentrate on background and personality of your characters. If you've GM'd you'd know this is a big help and will allow things to progress faster.

BTW I now have a target for the run and have the initial meet with the Johnson worked out. Now I am working on NPC's and environment. Having one person capable of being a data courier may help with the mission in a small way.
Red-ROM
I noticed this game starting up. I'd like to throw my hat in if possible. I'd like to use one of the poor characters from PBP games that died on arrival. I'd have too adjust them but I don't want to do that if your not interested..

street name: Runt
Character Info:
[ Spoiler ]

Qualities(+10 net BP)
[ Spoiler ]

Attributes(220 including edge)
[ Spoiler ]

Skills(164)
[ Spoiler ]

Ware:( nuyen.gif 41,500)
[ Spoiler ]

Gear:( nuyen.gif 108,100)
[ Spoiler ]

contacts:(16BP)
[ Spoiler ]

Max Broman (reformated)

Character Sheet:
[ Spoiler ]

Gear:
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts:
[ Spoiler ]


Game Information:
[ Spoiler ]


Awards:
[ Spoiler ]
pbangarth
OK, folks are starting to post character sheets, so here's a draft of Bongo Slade. Gimme some feedback, dudes.

Ravensoracle, are the Background and Vignette acceptable substitutes for the 20 questions?

Bongo Slade

Background
[ Spoiler ]


Vignette
[ Spoiler ]


Bongo Slade 53 questions:
[ Spoiler ]


Character sheet
[ Spoiler ]

Bongo's Favourite Poetry (to be appended over time)
[ Spoiler ]

EDIT: 11 March 2010 fixed contact lenses and earbuds, redistributed extra cash
EDIT: 15 March 2010 changed Initiations to account for ordeals; added Arcana Skill, bumped Contact loyalty
EDIT: 31 March 2010 added poetry spoiler
EDIT: 7 October 2010 inserted 53 questions for completeness in one post
ravensoracle
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 10 2010, 09:50 PM) *
Ravensoracle, are the Background and Vignette acceptable substitutes for the 20 questions?


I will take a real close look at the character tommorow but what I am seeing on a cursory glance is that the contacts are not going to work. Sr4A gives ratings for them that limits what can be shoved in them. Also the avail is increased by each mod. I haven't added it all up but I know ultrasound alone is +8.

As to the Background questions you have answered a good deal of them already so cutting and pasting them into the questionnaire should make answering the rest go real quick. I ain't going to lie about it. All the extra work will make a difference in my choosing. But I am making the 50 Questions mandatory.
pbangarth
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 10 2010, 10:04 PM) *
I will take a real close look at the character tommorow but what I am seeing on a cursory glance is that the contacts are not going to work. Sr4A gives ratings for them that limits what can be shoved in them. Also the avail is increased by each mod. I haven't added it all up but I know ultrasound alone is +8.

As to the Background questions you have answered a good deal of them already so cutting and pasting them into the questionnaire should make answering the rest go real quick. I ain't going to lie about it. All the extra work will make a difference in my choosing. But I am making the 50 Questions mandatory.
Ah! Contact lenses! Gotcha. How did ultrasound get in there? I'll have a look.

OK, I'll work on the questionnaire.

EDIT: OK, I cribbed the contact lenses and earbuds from a character for whom the availability was not a problem. I will fix them.
BlackHat
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 9 2010, 06:37 PM) *
Edit: If I can't think of an easy solution then I might be persuaded to just go with the normal Matrix rules.


Any conclusion on this? I was looking at even a normal hacker, and noticed that there wasn't much point in having any programs at higher than rating 3-4. Sure, you might roll well, and get 6 hits in one roll, but its unlikely enough that its probably not worth upgrading all of your programs. It's not a deal breaker for me, either way, but I'll want to make sure I know which way we're going with this before investing in any high-rating software.

Also, if we're sticking with that rule, how does that affect extended tests? I assume the hits limited per interval? (Otherwise, most extended tests would be impossible, since they often have thresholds > 6).

And how do you feel about the Unwired rules regarding cracked programs. No hacker wants to use legal software (particularly with the bonus to tracking it grants), and nobody has the time to patch up a bunch of cracked software. Assuming we're using those rules (which are default, IIRC), do you want us to pay full price for software at char-gen, even if we want it to be cracked? or could we pay the 10% price for pirated software, acknowledging that it will degrade?
ravensoracle
QUOTE (BlackHat @ Mar 11 2010, 08:53 AM) *
Any conclusion on this? I was looking at even a normal hacker, and noticed that there wasn't much point in having any programs at higher than rating 3-4. Sure, you might roll well, and get 6 hits in one roll, but its unlikely enough that its probably not worth upgrading all of your programs. It's not a deal breaker for me, either way, but I'll want to make sure I know which way we're going with this before investing in any high-rating software.

Also, if we're sticking with that rule, how does that affect extended tests? I assume the hits limited per interval? (Otherwise, most extended tests would be impossible, since they often have thresholds > 6).


Right now I am thinking of just going back to the regular rules. Trying to add TM's with the Stat + Skill rule is a pain in the A*&. I ran it that way in my RL game but I didn't have a TM att the table. I will say to at least make a token effort on having a decent Logic. I am not going to accept a hacker character with a Logic of 1. If you haven't read the main forum, I am asking about the feasibility of Stat + Skill + Program just like all the other skills use tools. If you have any input on that please join that discussion. My biggest beef with the Matrix rules is that they are not in line with the rest off the rule set.


QUOTE
And how do you feel about the Unwired rules regarding cracked programs. No hacker wants to use legal software (particularly with the bonus to tracking it grants), and nobody has the time to patch up a bunch of cracked software. Assuming we're using those rules (which are default, IIRC), do you want us to pay full price for software at char-gen, even if we want it to be cracked? or could we pay the 10% price for pirated software, acknowledging that it will degrade?



I will allow pirated software. You must roll for each piece of software, as per the rules, to determine if you critically glitch and get bugs.

I'd like to see, but it is not a requirement, at least a token effort be applied to communications security during the run. I mean at the bare minimum know when you are on a secure line or not. That is just the training in dealing with Classified material from my military background talking though.
ravensoracle
Oh and for an initial test, you will have to be able to enter an area similar to the public areas in any AAA corp's regional headquarters in downtown Seattle.
pbangarth
No problemo, dude! Es un ensayo muy sencillo!
zzyxzs
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 11 2010, 11:59 AM) *
Right now I am thinking of just going back to the regular rules. Trying to add TM's with the Stat + Skill rule is a pain in the A*&. I ran it that way in my RL game but I didn't have a TM att the table. I will say to at least make a token effort on having a decent Logic. I am not going to accept a hacker character with a Logic of 1. If you haven't read the main forum, I am asking about the feasibility of Stat + Skill + Program just like all the other skills use tools. If you have any input on that please join that discussion. My biggest beef with the Matrix rules is that they are not in line with the rest off the rule set.


Though it wouldn't address the problem of the Matrix rules not being in line with the rest of the rule set, perhaps a limit to your unaugmented Matrix skills (Hacking, etc.) could be 1.5 times your Logic rating (rounded up)? For example, Logic 1 would be limited to Hacking 2, Logic 2 would be limited to Hacking 3, Logic 3 would be limited to Hacking 5, etc. That might even be a sensible house rule to apply to all skills.
crizh
QUOTE (zzyxzs @ Mar 11 2010, 06:55 PM) *
That might even be a sensible house rule to apply to all skills.


I have to say on the surface this idea greatly appeals to me.

One of the things that really twirls my propeller about SR4 is that players are capped at 7(10) for skill ratings and Spirits/Sprites/Dragons/etc are not.
pbangarth
QUOTE (crizh @ Mar 11 2010, 12:38 PM) *
I have to say on the surface this idea greatly appeals to me.

One of the things that really twirls my propeller about SR4 is that players are capped at 7(10) for skill ratings and Spirits/Sprites/Dragons/etc are not.
I don't understand.

Sprite/Spirit Attributes are based on their Rating/Force, and so are their Skills. So a Force 4 spirit has its Skills at Rating 4 and they don't get better, unless the spirit goes free, and spends the Karma to build Skills. And Dragons are off the scale in Attributes anyway, so their Skills would not be seriously limited by this rule anyway.
LurkerOutThere
But a rating 8 spirit has 8 in it's skill by the book, that is a problem. Ditto for sprite.
pbangarth
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Mar 11 2010, 02:55 PM) *
But a rating 8 spirit has 8 in it's skill by the book, that is a problem. Ditto for sprite.
Yes, but allowing a spirit's Skill to go to 1.5 times its linked Attribute (which is the ratio from zzyxzs that crizh likes) would make things even worse, no?

Maybe I'm not reading crizh correctly. Maybe he just would like metahumans to be able to grow Skills to a level that competes with powerful beings like spirits and dragons. In that case, I see what he is getting at.
SleepIncarnate
Ok, between work, other games I'm already in, FFXIII, and working on the sheet, it's gonna take me a bit to finish the 53 question sheet. Do you just want a rough draft of the sheet and what I've got so far by tomorrow, with like a basic background, or do you want the full 53 questions and a fleshed out backstory?
crizh
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 11 2010, 10:19 PM) *
Maybe he just would like metahumans to be able to grow Skills to a level that competes with powerful beings like spirits and dragons.


This.

rotfl.gif
cndblank
Since Contracts are half price, I'm assuming there is no double charisma in Free contacts?

Thanks
cndblank
double post
Red-ROM
50 questions?
ravensoracle
I am getting a lot of PM's about work getting hectic. I am moving back the deadline for character outline submissions to Monday. Tomorrow is the start of Spring Break for my kids so my life will be a little hectic itself next week. I would like a basic premise of what character everyone is planning so we aren't all building similar characters and leaving some area uncovered. I will take it all and put it in the initial post for reference.


QUOTE (cndblank @ Mar 11 2010, 08:17 PM) *
Since Contracts are half price, I'm assuming there is no double charisma in Free contacts?

Thanks


No no free contacts besides the price cut.

QUOTE (Red-ROM @ Mar 11 2010, 08:46 PM) *
50 questions?


Initial post spoiler at the bottom.
pbangarth
Fixed earbuds and contact lenses for Bongo Slade (post #63).
BlackHat
First Draft (might refine it over the weekend - happy to get feedback)
Had planned to get another idea out too, but those 50+ questions took me a long time. We'll see how I do over the weekend.

Image of "Tag"

Using [850 karma]

"Tag" - Covert Surveillance, Infiltration, and Electronic Warfare Specialist (Passable Hacker, could be easily modified/equipped to assist in other roles)
[ Spoiler ]
ravensoracle
The picture is too small.
BlackHat
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 12 2010, 09:00 PM) *
The picture is too small.


Looks about right for an RFID tag. wink.gif
ravensoracle
Ok so far for characters concepts submitted we have:


pbangarth- Bongo Slade, Investigation/ Secondary face/ Distraction
BlackHat- Tag, AI Covert Ops/Recon specialist/ Secondary Hacker
Red Rom- Max Broman, Face/ Mystic Adept Summoner
cndblank- Kit, Magician or Mystic Adept/Could go Illusionist, B&E, or Face as needed by the group.
Glyph- mundane muscle type with face and sneaking abilities
malachite333- Dr Richard Benson Hoffer, Doctor/ Face /Magical Perception
SleepIncarnate- Mage
zzxyzs- Mystic Adept (Manipulation Specialist)/ Disguise and Social Infiltration/ Secondary Face
pbangarth
Got enough 'face' do we?
ravensoracle
Well that may not be a bad thing, though nobody is pulling out huge numbers for social skills. I am not against having a group of conmen. It would be an interesting depart from a standard shoot'em up game. It will definitely be a challenge for me since I am not the greatest at being a face. If this is the road everyone wants to take then I say go for it. Just nobody yell at me for my poor acting/writing skills ok.

I would like to see a little more diversity. Let me know if I missed anyone or got something wrong.
malachite333
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 13 2010, 02:59 AM) *
Got enough 'face' do we?



All the better to con you with my dear.
SleepIncarnate
hehe, we could always have a TM/face for the missing tech and face stuff =p
pbangarth
This could make for some boffo Teamwork tests. Five or six of us trying to convince the guard to let us through.

GM: So, after the teamwork thing, what's your dicepool?

Max Broman: 37.

GM: ...
SleepIncarnate
Have a changeling with the neoteny quality to use the "cute little girl" method of convincing.
Glyph
Quick question - how do you handle cost and Availability for weapon mods? Things like electronic firing, personal grips, etc. The rules seem to assume you will do all of this stuff after char-gen, but it would be nice to start out with a few weapon mods - no ultra-customized monstrosities, but a few things that aren't available as accessories.
malachite333
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Mar 13 2010, 03:14 AM) *
Have a changeling with the neoteny quality to use the "cute little girl" method of convincing.


All we'd need then is a Chris Hansen lookalike and we'd have the perfect to catch a predator con.
ravensoracle
The Weapon Mods have their own Availability, as long as it fits within normal limits then it is fine. I know some Add to the Avail of the weapon so just like Vision Mods on glasses or whatever the total counts.
SleepIncarnate
QUOTE (malachite333 @ Mar 12 2010, 09:24 PM) *
All we'd need then is a Chris Hansen lookalike and we'd have the perfect to catch a predator con.

"Why don't you take a seat? Go ahead and sit down. So, what're you doin here?"
malachite333
QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Mar 13 2010, 03:30 AM) *
"Why don't you take a seat? Go ahead and sit down. So, what're you doin here?"


Hehehe, I think we could actually pull it off.
cndblank
QUOTE (Crank @ Mar 9 2010, 02:42 PM) *
Also, for Mystic Adepts, is the force for spells limited by the magic points dedicated to magic (SR4) or to their total magic attribute (SR4a)?


Was this one answered?

Thanks
cndblank
Kit aka Ryuunksuke (Ryan) Glaiser (Shinto Practitioner)
Rough


Character:
[ Spoiler ]


Stats:
[ Spoiler ]



Active Skills;
[ Spoiler ]


Knowledge Skills:
[ Spoiler ]


Qualities:
[ Spoiler ]


Magic:
[ Spoiler ]


Contacts:
[ Spoiler ]


Armor and Comm
[ Spoiler ]


Gear:
[ Spoiler ]


Background Questions:
[ Spoiler ]
cndblank
Kit Image (She's the one in Red).


Kit Image 2
zzyxzs
QUOTE (ravensoracle @ Mar 12 2010, 09:56 PM) *
zzxyzs- Mage (Manipulation Specialist)/ Disguise and Social Infiltration/ Secondary Face


Just wanted to add the small correction: Mine is actually a mystic adept (yeah, another one), not a mage.
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