You should consider to start with a classic long-short combination. The choice of AR/shotgun/sniper rifle/sports rifle depends on your character.

For the "short" option, I´d learn Pistols (Semi-Auto +2), and go with the Ares Predator. Light, concealable, and easily found on various bodies. I´d weight concealability over damage, and forego the "long" weapon if buying only one weapon. Bringing a larger weapon will make the big boys notice, so you wouldn´t want to do that constantly.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/3/27/6...asmaWeapons.jpg

That's why every devastator squad EVER played by me has a plasma cannon.

Ares predator or browning hi power if I had any social ability. or a "custom" rifle done up to be a battle rifle if I had to be more meat than talk. If I was a troll I would do a custom autocannon, break action side by side.

Actually leaning towards the roomsweeper a lot.

It's cheap, easy to use. I am also looking at the short barrel t-250 talking with the gm, more in removing the stock and keeping the damage range vs cutting the barrel and losing power...

Drop the stock and give it the +2 conceal size, combined with a sling to help conceal it under the jacket (bring it down to 0 or heavy pistol conceal with the sling modification bonuses, or -2 with long coat bonuses on top of it...)

Giving a real nice side arm that has the power, and concealability.

Of course said character is wearing a Synthleather duster over FFBA with a couple PPP parts...

I am considering just getting one of the mid-range pistols as well, but something about the character and personality just screams shotgun to me.

I guess it's the personality that would want as much tactical flexability while maintaining frugality (hence no real look towards burst, and a hatred of full auto weapons...)

Precisely. Of course, its expected that the FGMP only be fired by characters wearing Rad suits.

Assuming of course, that characters are allowed to have one.

Any suit worn by someone with that gun is already RAD.

fixed

that sound should come as a keyring.

Ares Predator all they way.

John Connor, anyone?

Still don't understand how a sling even helps with RC or Conceal.

In this case it's more a holster type sling/harness.

A good example is the smgs carried in one of hte lethal weapon movies by the south african guards under their jackets (it let the gun hang under the arm along the side like it was holstered.)

A similar rig can work with longer weapons, just not as well.


quick search for a type of sling that shows what I am talking about

The triple or single point slings can be shifted eaily enough to hide a smg/carbine/short shotgun under a long coat with a bit of minor effort. Most are quick release as well so in sl terms a quick command on the PAN after grabbing and it's free to use

No, it might be a good way to link my weapon to my crimes maybe. But despite what police proceedurals may have led you that has next to nothing to do with actually finding me.



Please stop presuming and listen for a second, i'm going to do my part to dispel some wierd notion that both of you seem to have.


Lets say for a second that every single gun that Ares makes is test fired and profiled as it leaves the factory a process that would take considerable time and constitute lots of overhead for minimal gain. First you have to get past the data balkanization that is alive and well in the sixth world, then you have to positively match the shell casings from heavily modified Ares predator that I always use. This is hoping I've NEVER swapped the barrel andnd hopeing that at some point along the line that I bought it from someone who actually kept transaction records, hoping the gun never went through a place like lagos or any other blackmarket mecca where guns are literally sold in lots. Or had the weapon custom built by someone with a desktop forge, a herf gun, and a set of plans available on the matrix.

Through countless man hours of work a dedicated Lonestar or Knight Errant detective might indeed learn the serial number of the weapon before I changed it a long time ago. Yes that really helps them find me.

Unless you are concerned about the police searching your safe house when your not there and issuing a warrant for your arrest based on a match on your gun there is no way ballistics help find you. Ballistics help prove your guilty, and if the Star has managed to pry your weapon from your cold dead hands or find it behind the shower tile in your squat you have other problems. Far better to have a reliable weapon( you keep with you in case you need to shoot people and have customized to your tastes and shooting style then to pick up a new gun every time within the framework of Shadowrun. This isn't a pink mohawk vs mirror shades issue, this is people having an unreasonable expectation for what forensics can and cannot do. Especially in a world where violent crime and murder is as rampant as it is int he sixth world.

But lets say in I live in Hermit's world of super accurate ballistics work ups every time. Unless I've personally thrown that gun in the nanodissembler vat or blast furnace it is believably still a problem for me so having it leave my person or replacing the barrel and hammer everytime is minimal gain.

Don't you mean the badass himself Kyle Reese?

Ooops.


Alsop, as far as the gun-tracking thing, what about astral stuff? Depends if it counts as material link...

sympathic links..

Commlink, favorite lighter, favorite shirt... etc..

only gun etc...?

Anything you use a lot is going to be a link, if they can spend the time and money to hire a mage with the proper metamagic.

So do you drop your gear every few days, buy all new kit and move on?

If not you're in trouble if anything of yours gets picked up on a run.

Well except for the fact usually it's not worth it to the corp to waste resources unless you really mess things up big time (aka terminate a CEO, steal Lowyfer's pink plushie, etc)

I like that idea! Course then I couldn't use Vera on a run...

Again, the best defense against sympathetic links is keeping your stuff secure, the best security you can hope for is on your person. For those times when it is impractical to keep it on your person find the most secure stash spot you can.

Also let me just personally say, the sympathetic link rules are pretty silly as they are entirely too arbitrary

And your over sensitive rant changes my point that you and hermit have different game styles so this argument is virtually pointless how?

Again... here's the problem... depends on the character and his needs.

For some concealability is the issue... in which case a heavy pistol is probably best. (decent hitting power and concealability).
For others hiding in plain sight but with a bit more firepower is a variation on concealability... which is going to get you more noticed packing a AK-98/M22A3 as just another ganger or the guy w/ the top-flight Ares Alpha/XM30.
Flexibility, then a modular weapon might be your thing. (set it up as a SMG/carbine for best conceal, the rest are mission dependent)


Gas vent's aren't available to pistols IIRC. Only MP, SMG, AR, and MG. Making recoil comp harder to come by... but if you're using

Oddball: (concealable, limited range, high damage)
Defiance EX Shocker, Modifed to SA, Smartgun/laser sight, personalized grip (+1 dice melee, or -1 RC).
Only thing borderline legal issue wise is the smartgun... laser site is good for intimidation... it is already a melee weapon. Though range is limited (if you're a mage though... not a huge problem). Also good, because it won't raise eyeballs much when you're outside the barrens. Sure some other mods, such as ceramic construction if you really don't want it found I guess.

Pistol:
BF pistols are cool... but it's hard to come up with the recoil comp (that said the manhunter is pretty.
I prefer the Manhunter (though the Sava guardian is pretty nifty also). Both are pretty much straight up predators w/ added features.
Manhunter BF (narrow only, 2 point RC special, smartgun)
Guardian, SA/BF* (BF == complex, 1point RC special, smartgun)

Manhunter(fire mod SA (1), BF-wide (1), Personalized Grip,... cool mods, gecko grip, extended mag, skinlink, easy breakdown, ceramic/plasteel(1), melee hardening, improved rangefinder (reduce pistol range penalties) )
Removable Accesories: removable/folding stock (RC1), suppressor, pistol scope (long range -6 extreme is rough).
Kitted out w/ the stock, suppressor, I figure it's about the same size as a SMG w/ 5P AP-1 base and SA/BF RC4 suppressed I figure it's about the same

Guardian: almost the same, but you can skip the fire mod for more modification space... nice if you want an internal suppressor (for the -6 vs. -4 and concealability) you only end up trading 1 point of RC for it. Firing mod BF is still nice though to reduce the firing action from complex to simple like normal...


Modular weapons:
Probably go with the XM30... set it up as a SMG and do everything I could for concealability purposes... folding stock, sling, barrel reduction (on pistols this reduces the range too much, on rifles/SMG's... go for it). A highly concealable SMG + GL is a lot of firepower. I like melee-hardening again, just form a reliability standpoint... if it's getting thrown around banged up... or some ganger hammers it w/ a lead pipe... it'll keep working, let alone the ever popular 'pistol-whipping' option.

Gecko Grip: is a very nifty option I never really noticed before... it allows you to hide the gun in a much wider variety of places as well as makes it harder to disarm. Or preposition the gun aimed at say a door... then give it a remote fire order.

Barrett Model 121 with additional ammo mod and then both Capsule rounds (with Narcojet... or Ringu/DMSO if you have a bajillion nuyen) and AV ammo. AV acts like APDS but gets yet another -2 AP on top of the APDS AP when shooting at vehicles. Carry it on a Gyromount and mod it for full auto so you have a manportable .50 cal able to suppressive fire on the run.

A Capsule round acts as a Gel Round (except no added bonus to knockback/knockdown) and so it does Stun and since Narcojet also does Stun firing FA with that if it hits is a win button.

A less effective but fun choice is an Auto Assault 16 using Shok-Lock rounds for the +1 AP. Gyromount also suggested for this weapon.

Well she's getting a roomsweeper... the shotgun spread is key I think.

Remington Roomsweeper
Modifications:
* top mount: flashlight (low light)
* Melee Hardening
* Extended Barrel
* Personalized Grip
* Gecko Grip
* Environment modification 1 (toxic environments ; aka anti-corrosion and rust protection)
Acces:
*Quick draw thigh holster
Ammo:
40 rds standard slug ammo
40 rds Flechette ammo (buckshot)
20 rds EX-Explosive Slugs
20 rds Gel Slugs

failed to find a seller of capsules with KE IV in them... go figure there is a rush on them.

Ex-Ex will get a person killified when they get hit by a fire, light, blast, or explosive effect and do their damage to the carrying character. Shock lock dont make extra bang, do extra damage, and EAT items struck. If you shoot a door with shok-lock you double your chances of blasting a hole.

Nah, I'd say the best defense against sympathetic links is not pissing anyone off ENOUGH to go through the trouble. It's unrealistic that you'll never leave something behind ever.

Truth is there is such a myriad of tracking methods in shadowrun that you'll almost never properly cover ALL of them. It's up to the GM to decide if he wants to pursue them or not, so the best defense is to give little to no plausible reason to bother tracking you down.

Don'g forget to buy a bayonet!!! (you can attach it to the end like you would a gas-vent mod)

Going WW1 trench shotgun style.

she's bouncing between street and squatter in the barrens (redmond) so she wants something that works damn it. The light was picked because her natural low light, and at the ranges she is likely to face oposition the light works better than a laser sight (plus I got an evil bastich of a gm that I trained... karma sucks!)

She does spend time in the ork underground so trench is close, plus shot shells work great for getting people to duck while she gets out of there.

she did scrounge up some grenades too, just a couple pepper punch gas grenades and smokes... but hey PP means any magiker is going to be hurting while she gets out of there. [plus nothing ruins a go-gang's day like a pp gas grenade in front of them... when they have no helmets or resperators on..]

Can flechette actually hurt anyone, unless you're using typo'd stats? Especially if you're using the spread.

You already melee hardened it... just figured it fit.

Bayonet is 40 creds (cheap!), Reach +2, (Str/2+1)P when you have it on the rifle.

Not all targets wear armor, plus it's good for making folks duck.

It has it's uses, especially when someone sends critters after ya or ina tight passageway (as-7 with FA and flechette, narrow spread... full 10rd burst..gangers in just leather jackets)

Depends on how you rule on called shots and what happens when flrchette don't hit atmot.

Take a lined coat it has 4 impact called shot to avoid armor means -4 dice, does the flechette benefits help or not I think there is no armor to give +5 to so you get +2DV. Now a called shot for damage is still superior but I'm sure people can come up with something for why flechette isn't worthless. It is definitely niche though.

A good gun would be a redline pistol asuming you have access to power sockets you can restock up on ammo free. It hits HARD and is easy to hide. It's a bit out there.

Critters good point I had not thought about them. How do the SR4 shotgun spread rules work maybe something can be gimicked there as well. In SR2 I totally weaseled choke with 2 roomsweepers so my TN was 2, I was hitting multiple targets even when they had cover, sure there damage resistance test was 2 as well, but they had to roll a lot of 2s.

Yeah redmond barrens... home of the mutant devil rat population...

I just know he's going to send me around the damn river or in the sewers

Flechette increases the stakes of the damage resistance roll. 15 dice against 7 base might mean a large wound, 20 dice against 9 base damage might be the end.

IE take the odds of taking 4+ damage in the first place (3 hits kill). 21% odds in the first case, 30% in the later. Bad rolls happen.

Well, looking at the average rolls of 3 dice = 1 hit then using flechette ammo will on average do 1 DV more then regular ammo. Also, they strike IMPACT armor not Ballistic, which is typically lower. This is the REAL reason to use flechette ammo as most people stack Ballistic much higher then Impact.

I also play with a house-rule that only allows flechette to modify the armor rating by at most the original rating. So an Impact armor of 4 can only recieve +4AP while an Impact of 6 would get the full +5AP.

Yeah, mutant devil rats w/ natural armor power!

Hehehehehe

For single-weapon situations, I [my physad, that is...] prefer the Morrissey Elan. If you truly need more gun than that, you need a second gun. When you are more worried about sound than scanners and patdowns, the Ares Viper is an acceptable substitute (the integral silencer is LEGAL). For pure lethality, I agree that machine pistols (particularly the 5-7c) are a sensible choice, since they synergize well with larger weapons. If you have the skills for it, however, I recommend the more concealable and more damaging Ruger Thunderbolt. The spirit of John Woo demands that all Ruger Thunderbolts be used akimbo, however... so that rules them out as the 1-gun solution.

Any time you can actually carry around something larger than a sidearm... you can carry more than one gun.

Honestly, unless you're a mage, why aren't you carrying a backup piece? The New York reload (pull your backup) is much faster than actually reloading, even with smartguns.

Her backup...

Well that comes with a Rtg 4 targeting soft...

And wielding akimbo gives you douple the amount of ammo before needing to do even that.
My Sasha has pairs of most of her weapons that dont reguier two hands to use, smart people dont fire both guns at the same time.

Its not a matter of matching your weapons to your crimes. Its a matter of matching crime A to crime B to crime C, and having the cumulative evidence build up to a usable profile that leads to you. Its actually not uncommon today for police to know the same gun was used in multiple crimes, allowing them to link together otherwise unrelated bits of information.
Granted, assuming you are careful about not letting out those "unrelated bits" of information in the first place (any one of which might be enough to nail you anyhow), linking your crimes via your gun probably isn't big deal. But it still probably makes you look bad to your Johnson- if its well enough known, its almost like leaving a "signature" at the scene. Sure, you CAN get away with it, but why?

Fair enough. I'm just a big fan of having a gun left over after I've "given up my weapons" or been frisked. Honestly, if you're not planning on hitting a lot of high profile/upper class neighborhoods where more guns means more risk... carry an arsenal. If you only have it as insurance and never have to pull it, a second gun is a capital investment. Buy once, then never have to pay more unless you NEEDED the gun. Cheaper than your monthly protection money to the local street gang, and WAY cheaper than getting dead 'cause you didn't have it.

You also assume that a gun is going to be used on runs a lot.

The char in question isn't keen on using her gun, not so much a pacifist but one that feels having to resort to it means things went bad.

She is more likely to use said gun in her home area, Z-zone. than doing runs, which she may add a throwaway gun as needed for (she is looking into a set of running gear vs what amounts to survial gear she has)

If the weapon has a "clip" both are equally fast. Dropping a weapon and drawing another takes one free and one simple action, same as with ejecting a smart clip and inserting a new one. Of course most shotguns don't have removable mags, so in general you are correct.

Well, yes. My physad DOES tend to assume that things can and will go to hell, and that the guns will come out. That being said, none of the points he made require that assumption for their validity.

Huh, double post.

True, but if your backup is a pistol (which was my assumption, I must admit) you can quickdraw it, which means that simple action lets you get another shot off, as well.

Or, if you're a physad with the Quick Draw power, the same applies to Automatics and Longarms.