FlakJacket
Feb 1 2004, 11:54 PM
Okay, but what the hell is that Marlon Brando does Batman thingy in the bottom right corner?
JongWK
Feb 2 2004, 01:06 AM
It's the new SR pet
FlakJacket
Feb 2 2004, 01:57 AM
Really? Cool. Okay, who wants to try flushing it down the toilet first?
JongWK
Feb 2 2004, 02:04 AM
Hey, just wait for the action figure w/ audio. You push a button in its back and the doll says "SoE will come out this week"
Synner
Feb 2 2004, 02:06 AM
Another SOE crack and I'm flying to Uruguay and conking you on the head.
Snow Fox - My thanks for your patience.
sirdoom
Feb 2 2004, 02:40 PM
@Wong & Flakjacket:
Honks, it's the logo of the Fantastic Shop(that's where the link goes), which will not appear on the actual book.
JongWK
Feb 2 2004, 03:43 PM
What? No shadowrunning Beanie Baby?
Skarn Ka
Feb 2 2004, 04:28 PM
QUOTE (Synner) |
Another SOE crack and I'm flying to Uruguay and conking you on the head.
Snow Fox - My thanks for your patience. |
"Some day my dreams will be reality..."
You're going to turn your walls down into rubble with all those sratches Syn.
Patience man.
BIG BAD BEESTE
Feb 2 2004, 04:56 PM
Oh deary me. Looks like it might be time to get that flight to Japan, train industriously in the art of Kenjitsu, pick up a hand-made katana (Dikoted of course!) and then pop on over to the FANPRO offices for a little tete a tete.
Que Tarentino action and bizarre 60's psychaeldelia. May be even add Batman camera angles and POW effects too...
PS> Howdy-do thar Guys & Gals.
Pistons
Feb 2 2004, 05:17 PM
QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE) |
and then pop on over to the FANPRO offices for a little tete a tete. |
Or you could just send an email.
sirdoom
Feb 2 2004, 05:24 PM
Patrick Goodman
Feb 2 2004, 07:50 PM
QUOTE (sirdoom) |
Of course he could send an email but I think the Tarantino style approach is a little more impressive  |
You say "Tarantino" like it's a good thing.
sirdoom
Feb 2 2004, 09:03 PM
Just more impressive than an email...
Austere Emancipator
Feb 2 2004, 09:19 PM
An e-mail can be very impressive. Just remember to attach the pictures of the recipient doing his daily chores, sleeping, his children/SO/parents sleeping, etc.
Bearclaw
Feb 2 2004, 09:29 PM
nevermind
Drain Brain
Feb 2 2004, 10:52 PM
QUOTE |
Troll: Holy rusted metal!
Mage: WHAT?
Troll: Rusted metal. With holes in it. Pay attention.
|
Batman... gotta love it...
otaku mike
Feb 3 2004, 01:30 AM
QUOTE (Pistons) |
Or you could just send an email. |
That's assuming you'll actually get a reply.
Which didn't happen to my last 4 mails.
Well, I'll try to think they were lost somewhere on their way.
Fortune
Feb 3 2004, 02:55 AM
QUOTE (otaku mike) |
That's assuming you'll actually get a reply. Which didn't happen to my last 4 mails. |
...Or my last two!
Birdy
Feb 3 2004, 03:45 PM
Well, you could also offer payment to Dumpshocks local residents to pay a visit to Fanpro. Germany is a small country after all.

Not that it will speed up delivery.
Michael (In range of a PzH 2000 to FanPro but lacking the tube)
Adam
Feb 3 2004, 05:12 PM
And, well, being in Germany doesn't help much when FanPro LLC's office is in Chicago.
Siege
Feb 3 2004, 05:13 PM
QUOTE (Adam) |
And, well, being in Germany doesn't help much when FanPro LLC's office is in Chicago. |
I was wondering about that...
-Siege
Birdy
Feb 3 2004, 06:33 PM
QUOTE (Adam @ Feb 3 2004, 05:12 PM) |
And, well, being in Germany doesn't help much when FanPro LLC's office is in Chicago. |
Ah come on, one FanPro is as good as any other FanPro. After all scapegoats are a german invention

And maybe if we put the "fear of the fans" in the german FanPro...
Michael
<Edited for error>
Herald of Verjigorm
Feb 3 2004, 08:22 PM
QUOTE (Birdy) |
After all scapegoads are a german invention |
goad
n.
1. A long stick with a pointed end used for prodding animals.
2. An agent or means of prodding or urging; a stimulus.
scape·goat
n.
1. One that is made to bear the blame of others.
2. Bible. A live goat over whose head Aaron confessed all the sins of the children of Israel on the Day of Atonement. The goat, symbolically bearing their sins, was then sent into the wilderness.
I can only guess at the meaning of a scapegoad and why it was a German invention.
Siege
Feb 3 2004, 10:15 PM
It may be a vague allusion to the blaming of Germany for WWI.
And, of course, the current joke about letting Germany slap France down (again).
-Siege
Birdy
Feb 3 2004, 11:46 PM
QUOTE (Siege) |
It may be a vague allusion to the blaming of Germany for WWI.
And, of course, the current joke about letting Germany slap France down (again).
-Siege |
Actually it was
a) A misspelling
b) A StarTrek reference (Russian invention...)
c) A reference that FanPro Germany (the scapegoat) would do for FanPro USA
d) A reference to the common german practice to blame it on someone else
Michael
Siege
Feb 4 2004, 04:18 AM
I was unaware that was a common German practice, to blame others.
I thought Americans had cornered that particular market years ago.

-Siege
FlakJacket
Feb 4 2004, 04:19 AM
Hey, hey. Can't we all just get along and agree to blame the French?
Siege
Feb 4 2004, 04:22 AM
QUOTE (FlakJacket) |
Hey, hey. Can't we all just get along and agree to blame the French? |
I would, except I really love those fluffy biscuit things the French do.
And I swear to God, it's amazing how many cute girls you find working at the fast food joints in Paris. Although it might have just been the accent.

-Siege
otaku mike
Feb 4 2004, 09:25 AM
Aren't we a bit off topic now?
Birdy
Feb 4 2004, 12:37 PM
QUOTE (Siege) |
I was unaware that was a common German practice, to blame others.
I thought Americans had cornered that particular market years ago. 
-Siege |
<Grumbling old man mode>
Those American upstarts! Don't even have a language of their own, just a funny accent but claim to have invented everything!
</grumble>

No, blaming others is a time honored german tradition. Back at the start of the last century we blamed France first and our fellow european neighbors second. Today we blame the USA first and our fellow european neighbors second.
After all both nations are to blame for not having proper drink and food (No beer, no sauerkraut)
Joking,
Michael
P.S: The not so funny scapegoats ended up in a KZ between 1933-45

German: Language developed by wandering bands of barbarians to coordinate raids on their civilized neighbors
English: Language designed so norman soldiers and anglo-saxon barmaids could haggle over the price
French: Language designed to talk about food, sexual affairs and for flirting. Not useable for war
Snow_Fox
Feb 4 2004, 02:43 PM
So if we all spoke french like civilized people there would be no war and we'd all be discussing food, wine, clothes ands love? I'm looking for a down side here.
Siege
Feb 4 2004, 02:49 PM
QUOTE (Snow_Fox) |
So if we all spoke french like civilized people there would be no war and we'd all be discussing food, wine, clothes ands love? I'm looking for a down side here. |
Pistons
Feb 4 2004, 06:11 PM
QUOTE (otaku mike) |
Aren't we a bit off topic now? |
Actually, a lot.
Birdy
Feb 4 2004, 06:23 PM
QUOTE (Pistons) |
QUOTE (otaku mike @ Feb 4 2004, 04:25 AM) | Aren't we a bit off topic now? |
Actually, a lot.
|
Passing time, waiting for the book to come/the database to finish installing. Betting what comes first: SoE/Cyberpunk 3.0/A honest politician.

Actually I can hardly wait until it comes out. Maybe if they up the price a bit and just leave the excess material in it comes faster(less editing)?
Michael (We need a overweight smiley)
Nath
Feb 4 2004, 07:58 PM
QUOTE (Pistons @ Feb 4 2004, 07:11 PM) |
QUOTE (otaku mike @ Feb 4 2004, 04:25 AM) | Aren't we a bit off topic now? |
Actually, a lot. |
Hey, they're talking abouth French and German in a thread about SoE. I've seen worse
BIG BAD BEESTE
Feb 6 2004, 02:10 PM
That's true.
As for the emails, well, I decided to hold back until we heard something through official channels. No point in hasssling Rob, who by all accounts is a very busy bloke ATM.
I'll freely admit that it's disappointing to be left out in limbo as to what's happening and then hear about it secondhand via a product release announcement, but hey, it'll be ready when its ready. At least its going to happen. And if the additional time means a good level of proof-reading and an overall high-quality result, I'm not going to argue.
Besides, gives me more time to get my act together and finally buy that computer. When it comes to professional writing, hardcopy sucks...
PS Snow Fox, the downside to speaking French is that your breath smells of onions and garlic.
Birdy
Feb 6 2004, 05:38 PM
QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE @ Feb 6 2004, 02:10 PM) |
That's true.
As for the emails, well, I decided to hold back until we heard something through official channels. No point in hasssling Rob, who by all accounts is a very busy bloke ATM.
I'll freely admit that it's disappointing to be left out in limbo as to what's happening and then hear about it secondhand via a product release announcement, but hey, it'll be ready when its ready. At least its going to happen. And if the additional time means a good level of proof-reading and an overall high-quality result, I'm not going to argue.
Besides, gives me more time to get my act together and finally buy that computer. When it comes to professional writing, hardcopy sucks...
PS Snow Fox, the downside to speaking French is that your breath smells of onions and garlic. |
Now that explains why we europeans never have problems with the French:
The Dutch are high on grass and feel far to good to smell anything

.
The Germans are full of beer (real beer to canoe beer)

and sauerkraut. Not smelling anything is a survival trait.
Them Irish/Scots are filled up on Whiskey and Ale and actually to busy with a friendly brawl to smell anything
The Brits are too well behaved to tell if the smell something
The Spanish and italian share the diet
The rest of Europe is too afraid to speak up since they are afraid France might order Germany back into the "forceful reunion" business
Michael
Large Mike
Feb 6 2004, 06:18 PM
SoE is going to come out first. SoE had at least a second draft done by the time that Cyberpunk 2030 was put at square one. Unless something significantly retarded happens, SoE will be out first.
Personally, I'm waiting for mJLBB.
Siege
Feb 6 2004, 07:41 PM
QUOTE (Birdy) |
The rest of Europe is too afraid to speak up since they are afraid France might order Germany back into the "forceful reunion" business. |
Eh? Sorry, I didn't get that one.
-Siege
JongWK
Feb 6 2004, 08:25 PM
I think he's talking about the "all Germans/Aryans/whatever-fits-me-this-week are mine" syndrome that a certain dictator had in the 1930-40s...
Which reminds me of a superb cartoon by John Low, a british artist from that time. Now, if I could just find a link...

:
Drain Brain
Feb 7 2004, 12:36 AM
In defence of lower class Britains everywhere:
"We ain't that bloody polite - if someone stinks I'll damn well tell 'em so, especially if they're some prissy french queer!"
I, however, am classy - I love the French. Especially the not-male ones. They make good plonk, too, and their language is, as you say, designed for love not war. Which is probably why they are such abominable combatants. I think.
Siege
Feb 7 2004, 04:28 AM
The French get a bad rep, but they're not a singularly bad combatant -- they held their own with the English from time to time and Napoleon did threaten the whole of Europe.
Granted, they didn't do well in either of the two World Wars, but still...
-Siege
Nath
Feb 7 2004, 02:09 PM
Nobody did well during the First World War. The French commanders just get more desesparate than the other because Paris was the only capital directly threatened. The three big defeat were:
- the end of the Napoleonic Wars. Invading Russia was really pushing luck too far. Considering all of Europe had to unite, it stays an honorable defeat. OTOH, on the seas we got beaten everytime by the British alone.
- the 1870 Franco-Prussian War, which was a perfectly designed trap from the provocation telegram to the secret alliances with the Southern German states, Bismarck being overall smarter than Napoleon III
- the Second World War. The government shouldn't have surrendered and go into exile, but from the military point of view France would have fallen anyway. If you ask me, the French didn't lack any "fighting spirit" the Brits and Americans had, they lacked a body of water preventing Panzer divisions from rolling onto their homes.
But at that point, the French lanauge was well established. It derives from latin, brought in the area by the well-known "Roman Legion of Love". It starts becoming a language melting with the language of the Franks ("Francs") who invade and makes their own the territory of "France". In 732, Charles Martel, aka "The Hammer", defends French poetry against the Arab culture in Poitiers. French became a litterary language to told tales of love stories such as Charlemagne's paladins battles. After a few generations who lived in France and spoke French, the descendants of the Danish vikings installed in Normandy goes to haggle beer price at Hastings. It gives limited results and Richard "Coeur de Lion" still use French when he led with Philippe II de France the Third Crusade after two ones already led by French noblemen. Following Du Guesclin in the history of famous military leaders, Joan of Arc is called to war by holy voice dubbed in French. Francis 1st makes French the official language, instead of Latin, which might show up on records of Knight Bayard victory in Marignan. Richelieu gives the reponsability of the French language to the Academie Francaise but keep the one of having France staying involved in the Thirty Years War until the end. However French is unadapted to war that Louis XIV motto "Ultima Ratio Regnum" is embedded in latin on his cannons. Royalty comes to an end through a peaceful revolution... soldiers sings about watering fields with blood and "Terreurr" takes a meaning in every language. BTW I'm wondering which language Washington and Lafayette used to communicate during the American War of Independence... Pass on, finally Napoleon greatly develops the teaching of French to create an administration able to govern the little part of Europe that fell under is control for a short time.
English ? Ain't that the language Romeo & Juliet was wrote in ?
Drain Brain
Feb 7 2004, 03:13 PM
No, you're thinking of "Shakespearian." That's another language altogether, as any school child will tell you!
Hot Wheels
Feb 7 2004, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE @ Feb 6 2004, 10:10 AM) |
PS Snow Fox, the downside to speaking French is that your breath smells of onions and garlic. |
She's allergic to garlic.
Siege
Feb 7 2004, 08:44 PM
Additionally, the bulk of WWI was fought on French soil while during WWII, the Nazis overran France, neutralizing it's (by German mechanized standards) outdated military.
All I said was, they didn't fare well. Had Nazi Germany launched a land war against either Britain or America (provided they had been in a position to do so), the results would most likely have been similar, if not identical.
In those two scenarios, it was mostly luck of the draw than any real lack of will or skill. That and outdated equipment.
-Siege
Nath
Feb 7 2004, 09:34 PM
As my history teacher used to say... when Germany invaded Poland, the best cavalry in the world got beaten by the best tanks in the world

It has nothing to do with the value of each soldier or of their people, it's just the situation at a given time.
Birdy
Feb 7 2004, 10:50 PM
QUOTE (Siege) |
Additionally, the bulk of WWI was fought on French soil while during WWII, the Nazis overran France, neutralizing it's (by German mechanized standards) outdated military.
All I said was, they didn't fare well. Had Nazi Germany launched a land war against either Britain or America (provided they had been in a position to do so), the results would most likely have been similar, if not identical.
In those two scenarios, it was mostly luck of the draw than any real lack of will or skill. That and outdated equipment.
-Siege |
It's even worse for the french soldier in the last few wars:
The soldiers where valiant
The officers where average with a few bright ones[1]
The politicians fucked up
In example:
The french tanks in WWII where quite able to stand up to german armor (remember those where the days when 50mm armed Panzer III where the main tank killers!) but the armor doctrine was "infantry support" and "deliver in small groups for the Krauts to kill with superior number". DeGaulle had other ideas but nobody wanted to hear him. My grandfather had some nice stories about the way they killed french heavies with a PIII[2]
French soldiers in Toulon sank their ships rather than give them to the germans. I don't think they where treated nicely afterwards.
French soldiers at Oran refused to hand over their ships to the british forces and tried to fight them even undermanned
The soldiers in Dien Bien Phu where quite willing to pull of a victorious version of Stalingrad. The rear area units and politicos where not.
Don't blame the guy in the trenches for the idiots in the capital,
Michael
[1] Like the one who realised that Sedan was a big chamberpot and the german army was about to take a dump in it.

[2] The involved getting the french to follow you until he was in range of an 88mm AA gun. The gun would then kill him. (The 50 or 37mm guns of the tanks could not). Given the immense armor of a PIII the germans liked it-not
moosegod
Feb 7 2004, 10:54 PM
I disagree with some of your conclusions. The infantry support doctrine was military. So don't blame the politicians. Don't worry, there's plenty of that.

The French army at the beginning of WWII was rife with incompetence and barely restrained revolution and rioting. Officers had little or no control. In some units it was dangerous to give orders contrary to what the men wanted to do. It didn't help that in 1937(?) something like 80% of appropriations were returned unused.
I know that all that should have support, but I really should be working. I might get around to that at some point. But you do have quite a few good points, Birdy.
Siege
Feb 8 2004, 12:08 AM
Actually Birdy, Rommel used that tactic on the British in Africa repeatedly.
Nasty but effective work.
-Siege
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