Full Version: Shadows of Europe - Not Out Yet
| QUOTE (Pistons @ Oct 15 2003, 04:46 PM) | ||
So, what would be your recommendation regarding primadonnas? In your professional opinion, that is. |
Because he's assuming that the problem is with the writers and not with the editors or production etc. I may tease Synner but I don't get to the level of name calling. I recognize that most of the writers do this in their free time and have "day jobs" kids etc and can't just sit down an pound stuff out.
Any sign of the duck?
Just for reference I take Hot Wheels and everybody elses' teasing as just that.
Along with a small number of original EuroSBers, I've now lived with this project for very close to four long and demanding years. It was no mean feat keeping things together and rolling, overcoming the inevitable problems and managing a 20+ strong team of individuals. Nobody wants to see it on the shelves more than me.
As I've said before SoE is currently in the final stages of Development. Primary writing was finished several months ago (Zen really should get his facts straight), however it is understandable that the sheer scope of the project, the fact that it has to be reviewed for continuity with at least 3 previous sourcebooks and that 90% of the writers don't have English as a mother tongue impact directly on the time and work required to edit it.
Along with a small number of original EuroSBers, I've now lived with this project for very close to four long and demanding years. It was no mean feat keeping things together and rolling, overcoming the inevitable problems and managing a 20+ strong team of individuals. Nobody wants to see it on the shelves more than me.
As I've said before SoE is currently in the final stages of Development. Primary writing was finished several months ago (Zen really should get his facts straight), however it is understandable that the sheer scope of the project, the fact that it has to be reviewed for continuity with at least 3 previous sourcebooks and that 90% of the writers don't have English as a mother tongue impact directly on the time and work required to edit it.
Hey, I was defending you a couple of weeks ago, I was just looking for an update, with a cute tv reference. I just hope you're not "triffleing" with us. 
Honestly the previous post wasn't meant as a jibe at you, Hot Wheels. Let's just say you've been one of the people who have consistently been nice about inquiring on SoE status, far more so than others. I really wish I had something new to report but there's precious little to add right now - no duck or bananas. As soon as I have any definite details I can share, rest assured I'll let you know.
I'll post the SOE wallpaper tonight. I was going to last night, but I had a case of losing my lunch and decided to just take it easy for the evening. :/
oh, were you listening to NBC execs trying to justify their line up too?
Meanwhile, across town in the BEESTEcave...
[cue spinning screen psychaedelia effects and diddly-diddly-dee audio...]
Holy Oversized Wordcounts! The BEESTEdraft editor machine is almost finished Synnerboy. All it took was a new label stuck onto the paper-shredder.
[cue spinning screen psychaedelia effects and diddly-diddly-dee audio...]
Holy Oversized Wordcounts! The BEESTEdraft editor machine is almost finished Synnerboy. All it took was a new label stuck onto the paper-shredder.
| QUOTE (Adam) |
| I'll post the SOE wallpaper tonight. I was going to last night, but I had a case of losing my lunch and decided to just take it easy for the evening. :/ |
Just went and snaffooed the aforementioned wallpaper - it's very good, my compliments to the artist, and my thanks to you for putting such cool things up on the site - it's now gracing my desktop!
Cheers...
The artist :
Merci Beaucoup
I'm delighted that people like it. I'll probably do more of them in the future if I can get my hands on the hi-res scans of the artworks. *hint for Rob and Adam*
Merci Beaucoup
I'm delighted that people like it. I'll probably do more of them in the future if I can get my hands on the hi-res scans of the artworks. *hint for Rob and Adam*
Very nice indeed. Can we have the same at 1600x1200 ? 
Fanpro newsletter November 03:
SoE is supposed to be released January/February 2004.
SoE is supposed to be released January/February 2004.
***Special report from GenCon 2k7: The long awaited Shadowrun sourcebook Shadows of Europe should be out in a month. So hang in there, chummers, the wait should be over soon...***
J/K. I'm still very patient. If it still needs to be worked with, then that's how it is. Better late than bad.
J/K. I'm still very patient. If it still needs to be worked with, then that's how it is. Better late than bad.
I think I asked this before (with no reply), but I'll ask it again here...
Does anyone have a release date on the updated edition of M&M? October has come and gone, and still no Fanpro version. Am I right in assuming this will ship the same time as SOE? (See, it isn't off topic after all...)
The book is currently selling at around $34 a copy on Ebay.
Does anyone have a release date on the updated edition of M&M? October has come and gone, and still no Fanpro version. Am I right in assuming this will ship the same time as SOE? (See, it isn't off topic after all...)
The book is currently selling at around $34 a copy on Ebay.
| QUOTE (sirdoom) |
| Fanpro newsletter November 03: SoE is supposed to be released January/February 2004. |
English or German version?
BTW, what is the average time between a english version release and its german language release?
| QUOTE |
| {1}English or German version? {2}BTW, what is the average time between a english version release and its german language release? |
1. English version
2. Between 2 month and 1/2 a year(or never
)
Is anyone surprised? It usually seems to take about till February or so for any releases to come out after GenCon.
| QUOTE (sirdoom @ Nov 11 2003, 04:03 PM) |
| Fanpro newsletter November 03: SoE is supposed to be released January/February 2004. |
While there is no final release date for SoE yet, I've had confirmation from Christian Lonsing at FanPro D that the product they were referring to in their November newsletter was the German version of SoE and not the English.
While it is possible SoE might slip further, it is by no means a given that it will slip that far. It might or it might not. I would like to ask everyone to refrain from speculating until you hear something definite. I will post a date as soon as we have one.
That I have to wait that's ok. We all wait for good things.
Now I was looking at the official website the other day, and decided to take another look at the SoE page. So I look over at the corner and I see that they list the pages at 160.
160?? SoNA has 208. That's a 48 page difference. Considering that most of the material in SoE is going to be new why the huge difference? The price is listed as 24.99 the same as SoNA so why less material?
I am sorry if I am being rude, but I am really curious as to why FanPro went this route. Never mind the wait, I think we all know that the writers do a great job and that Rob will also make sure that the book will be great.
Now that I think about it, is the delay because Rob is having trouble fitting the material in just 160 pages? I would not want to condense material for 200 pages into 160...
Now I was looking at the official website the other day, and decided to take another look at the SoE page. So I look over at the corner and I see that they list the pages at 160.
160?? SoNA has 208. That's a 48 page difference. Considering that most of the material in SoE is going to be new why the huge difference? The price is listed as 24.99 the same as SoNA so why less material?
I am sorry if I am being rude, but I am really curious as to why FanPro went this route. Never mind the wait, I think we all know that the writers do a great job and that Rob will also make sure that the book will be great.
Now that I think about it, is the delay because Rob is having trouble fitting the material in just 160 pages? I would not want to condense material for 200 pages into 160...
IIRC, Dot6w was announced as a 144 pages book, cover price 24,99, it turned out to be a whopping 208 pages for 24,99. what that means for SoE, I don't know. It's just something I noticed. The writers handed in a lot of material for that book, so much is sure (you want details on blown wordcounts? ask Synner or use the search function on this board).
or use the search function on this board).
| QUOTE (TW @ Nov 14 2003, 07:42 PM) |
| The writers handed in a lot of material for that book, so much is sure (you want details on blown wordcounts? ask Synner ). |
Or better yet don't.
All I can say on this particular matter is what Rob Boyle told me, which is that 160 was a placeholder number that was used because it was necessary to put something up for the sell sheet and distributor solicitation. Layout was not complete at that point so final page count was impossible and it really was a generic figure.
The other thing I can tell you is that the original breakdown of the project called for more pages than those 160, and every single author on the book (with one notable exception) blew the wordcount he was allocated (I'm particularly guilty).
IIRC all Rob would confirm at the "What's Up With Shadowrun" seminar at RatCon is that, "it'll be a thick book."
Cool. 
Now I really can't wait for it!
Now I really can't wait for it!
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| [QUOTE=TW,Nov 14 2003, 07:42 PM] The other thing I can tell you is that the original breakdown of the project called for more pages than those 160, and every single author on the book (with one notable exception) blew the wordcount he was allocated (I'm particularly guilty). |
Yep, you guys sure did. Don't think editorial curses haven't rained down on you, either. Luckily, I don't think they can successfully cross oceans, but had you been on the same continent? I'm quite sure most of the authors would have blown up spontaneously by now.
Fear the power of the editors.
With that in mind, accepting the offer to go to Toronto for a month or two might not have been the wisest choice then...
bah, humbug, I'm not superstitious....besides that, I developed an invulnerability to editorial staff curses as a side effect of my freelancer crack habit
bah, humbug, I'm not superstitious....besides that, I developed an invulnerability to editorial staff curses as a side effect of my freelancer crack habit
All I have to say is I'm disappointed that it won't be out for Christmas, I was planning on getting one for my GM as a christmas gift. Now I have to think harder about this particular dilema. What to do, what to do?
| QUOTE (Jérémie) |
| Very nice indeed. Can we have the same at 1600x1200 ? |
Your wishes are orders.
I forwarded to Adam a 1600 x 1200 version of the wallpaper. Now it depends on when he or Brian will manage to find some time to put it online.
It's up now, along with a new piece of fiction from Jon Szeto -- Dead Man's Party.
Hhmm, one of my favourite dragons snooping around that particular stuff. Certainly makes sense though. Eeeeenteresting.
Thanks
| QUOTE (Lady Anaka) |
| Yep, you guys sure did. Don't think editorial curses haven't rained down on you, either. Luckily, I don't think they can successfully cross oceans, but had you been on the same continent? I'm quite sure most of the authors would have blown up spontaneously by now. Fear the power of the editors. |
What she said.
| QUOTE (Pistons) | ||
What she said. |
I'm wondering if Pistons is half-cripsy then.
I've always thought it must be MPD-inducing to be a writer and an editor on the same project...
I just did writing and layout duties for the same book. I have never been so sick of a project as that one. Ugh. Thankfully it's off for approvals now, so fingers crossed I don't have to deal with it again except for sending it to press.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| I'm wondering if Pistons is half-cripsy then. I've always thought it must be MPD-inducing to be a writer and an editor on the same project... |
Synner: Probably have to ask Michelle, as I didn't edit my own work. (Beyond my usual self-edit, that is.)
If it isn't policy, then it's usually common sense that a writer will not do the editing for their own work. It can still be done of course -- quite honestly, editing is a totally different headspace for me than writing -- but it's better to have different eyes looking at the material. Thus no "MPD."
I expected as much, I just meant you'd be partially protected from the Almighty Smite Curse™ by the Editorial Aura of Protection™ .
Regarding the MPD thing, it's something I've experienced all too closely with the EuroSB/SoE. Although I understand the headspace thing, it's a type of detachment I really found hard to achieve... then again its probably living so long with this specific project in my brain it's "leaked".
.Regarding the MPD thing, it's something I've experienced all too closely with the EuroSB/SoE. Although I understand the headspace thing, it's a type of detachment I really found hard to achieve... then again its probably living so long with this specific project in my brain it's "leaked".
| QUOTE (252) |
| All I have to say is I'm disappointed that it won't be out for Christmas, I was planning on getting one for my GM as a christmas gift. Now I have to think harder about this particular dilema. What to do, what to do? |
Hmm, I suppose you could always get in their good books by purchasing them a nice European Tour Holiday. Just make sure they have their notepads and camera to do the research.
@ Lady Anaka
Excessive Wordcount? Moi? Surely not my dear... [innocently whistling smiley that ducks]
@ TW
Damn it man, you said you were kicking that Freelancer Crack habit! Anyhoo, I don't think you have to worry needlessly - there's a Great Lake between Toronto and Editor Land US.
@ Pistons
Yup - that's the way to do it. Easy to skip those errata gremlins that creep in on your own stuff. Get someone else to stomp on the little blighters.
@ Synner
Yup, your brain leaked. No two ways about it. Welcome to the nuthouse Term.
| QUOTE (BIG BAD BEESTE) |
| Excessive Wordcount? Moi? Surely not my dear... [innocently whistling smiley that ducks] |
We really need to lay that one to rest, Mr. 4000-words-over...
It scares me to see that (almost) finished books are delayed like that
Plus it consumes the freelancers time and energy, that would indeed be helpful elsewhere
.Sorry. Maybe I'm not patient ernough.
So is there any update on when SoE is coming out yet? I have it preordered, but I've been waiting for several months and it's getting a bit frustrating (especially since I have preordered several other books with it, which are waiting to ship until they all come in :/). Do you have any idea on an ETA, Adam?
Yeah come to think of it where the hell are alot of the updates? Not to mention the Mr. Johnson's black book? When the hell are they going to reprint the cannon Companion. The only one who's selling it right now is Ebay and Stiggybaby. What's up with that? Anyone got any info on this? What's with all the hold up's?
The hold ups have largely been Rob being focused on business matters write now and not having much time for line developing.
Shadows of Europe is in the editing/development process, and will be going into layout later this month, I believe.
Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book is in the writer's hands right now.
Cannon Companion is being reprinted after Man and Machine, which is at the printers now.
Shadows of Europe is in the editing/development process, and will be going into layout later this month, I believe.
Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book is in the writer's hands right now.
Cannon Companion is being reprinted after Man and Machine, which is at the printers now.
Cool. I have been waiting for the Man and Machine reprint for a while now. Any date on when it might reach stores? Perhaps around new year? That would be good.
Thanks a lot for the udpate Adam.
According to Fanpro(GER) the new release date of SoE(US) is April...
of which year?
SoE revised release date: April 2004
Thanks sirdoom, just what I needed to complete my week.
I remember when I was joking about having it for April's fools day 
Maybe my wish will come true
Maybe my wish will come true
ha, 6 month delay? That's nothing. I waited two and a half years for the mod Infiltration for UT to be released (and that was half of the life of the mod!). It'll be out "Soon™®©", for sure
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| Thanks sirdoom, just what I needed to complete my week. |
Gives Synner a hug.
I hug myself with a copy of Portofolio of a Dragon - Dunkelzahn's secrets(GER) special limited 15 years of Shadowrun edition until April...
cover
cover
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