Thanee
Nov 2 2024, 11:11 PM
QUOTE (Jack_Spade @ Nov 2 2024, 11:26 AM)

And yes, this is confusing as hell - doesn't help that the information is spread out over three books
Yeah, it sure is.

I actually thought along those lines of what you call "long arms" when looking at the stuff earlier, but then again, the book does seem to imply that you move inside the Matrix in several places (don't have one right now, have to look it up again, but it certainly gave me that impression).
Here's an example from the core book:
QUOTE
Let’s say that you’re in your car, driving home from work, school, or wherever you usually drive home from. You let the car’s autopilot handle the driving and drop into VR to start dinner. Once you check into VR, your car, the road, and everything nearby drop from view, and instead you see the Matrix’s plane of stars. You think about going to your home node, and boom, you go, streaking forward like a comet. As you get close, you see all of the devices that make up your home network, and you head for the one that represents your fridge. The icon for the fridge looks like a small fridge, with a list of the food (which the fridge’s electronics automatically update with what’s actually inside it). You see frozen pizza on the list and decide to go with a frozen pizza. You then reach out to your stove’s controls (appearing as some dials over a warm, homey glow) and fire up the oven to pre-heat to 230°. It’s a bit nippy outside, so you set your drink dispenser (which you’ve made look like a beer tap in VR) to start warming the soy base, and since you’re feeling luxurious you hit the controls for chocolate flavoring. Sill in VR, you zip back to your car, which cheerfully tells you that you’ve got another ten minutes, enough time to visit your favorite social networking host. Speaking of hosts, the big
Bye
Thanee
Gilga
Nov 3 2024, 07:01 AM
I imagine it like modern-day VR which You have digital spaces; you move in them and interact with people, objects, and so forth but at the same time you are still connected from a very physical device receiving service from some ISP, and even in modern Internet your physical location can potentially be traced - at least to the locations of the network you use (e.g., the cell tower or wifi network).
Tecumseh
Nov 4 2024, 03:30 AM
I haven't even read
Kill Code so I'm not the expert on this.
Modern day VR is more akin to Shadowrun AR. There's no modern-day equivalent for Shadowrun VR, where you're injecting your consciousness into the Matrix.
The earlier editions (I started with 2e) were very much, "You are flying through cyberspace."
Here's how the 4e core rulebook put it (p. 225):
QUOTE
In VR, you “exist” wherever your persona is within the Matrix. You
start either in the node of your own commlink or one of the nodes
to which you are subscribed and from there “move” to other nodes.
So the notion of moving through the Matrix (rather than just looking through a telescope at distant icons) is very much a legacy from earlier editions. But, in true Shadowrun fashion, the mechanics don't always fit the narrative, and vice versa.
Jack_Spade
Nov 4 2024, 08:12 AM
4e (and previous edition) matrix was a different beast altogether.
5e took the wireless to a hole new level. Where you had a separate world with roads between points of interest and paths you had to take to reach a certain poi, 5e did away with all that - now you can access everything from everywhere with no intermediary - except hosts that you have to enter.
In this matrix "flying" is no longer an option as there is no meaningful distance anymore to be crossed.
Thanee
Nov 4 2024, 09:53 AM
It's just weird.

If AM tracks the datastream to the physical location, and basically comes to this result here ...
QUOTE
If the persona that placed the mark is running silent, the trail will end in its vicinity, effectively letting the tracker know that a silent icon is nearby.
... why would the silent icon be nearby? They are not within 100m of each other. And noone moved.
Bye
Thanee
Thanee
Nov 4 2024, 09:55 AM
Anyways... do you guys want to do anything before the bar opens and/or AM finishes her tracking?
Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 4 2024, 01:30 PM
Yeah, that's a contradiction - but specific rules beat general ones, I guess.
It gives us an area to search at least.
To your question: No, depending on if the track back finishes first, we probably should check this out first - unless the rest of the team would prefer abducting the proprietor when she comes to open the bar.
Tecumseh
Nov 5 2024, 06:25 AM
Yes, it certainly would make sense to investigate any interesting locations first.
I don't think Mato has anything else to do in the meantime.
Gilga
Nov 7 2024, 02:31 PM
I'll try to get a post up later today. RL has been a bit brutal.
Thanee
Nov 11 2024, 07:34 AM
The only thing, apart from dice pools, obviously, that the Background Count would affect right now is AM's quickened Growth spell, if I am not mistaken.
Luckily, that one is high Force enough to not completely fizzle, so it will stay around, but at a reduced Force for now (which will slowly grow back to normal at the rate of 1 Force point per hour after leaving the area).
Not entirely sure, that has any effect, though, as Force only really limits hits for that spell (or would those retroactively lower while the Force is reduced?).
Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 11 2024, 10:33 AM
Interesting choice for a magically active group.
Important to mention: A spell created while within the bgc suffers from reduced dice pool, but not from the force reduction.
Thanee
Nov 11 2024, 11:18 AM
QUOTE (Jack_Spade @ Nov 11 2024, 11:33 AM)

Interesting choice for a magically active group.
It sure is!

QUOTE
Important to mention: A spell created while within the bgc suffers from reduced dice pool, but not from the force reduction.
Yep. Another of those weird parts of SR5.

Which is also why I am wondering whether the [Force] Limit would apply retroactively, as the Force itself is not a relevant factor in a spell's effect in many cases.
Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 11 2024, 01:00 PM
It's generally more an either or question: as long as the force of a spell is high enough it persists - if not it ends immediately
Btw: you aren't losing hits from a lowered force. Force creates a limit, but it isn't the limit. It's only relevant at the moment of casting.
Reagents and edge can be used to circumvent force limits.
So in practice it's just two things you have to watch out for: dice pool penalties and if a sell is snuffed out or not.
Thanee
Nov 11 2024, 03:32 PM
QUOTE (Jack_Spade @ Nov 11 2024, 02:00 PM)

Btw: you aren't losing hits from a lowered force. Force creates a limit, but it isn't the limit. It's only relevant at the moment of casting.
Yeah, that is pretty much what I assumed as well.
Just - thematically - it would make a lot of sense to do it the other way around, so BGC actually dampens the spells that are brought in there.

But, well... kind of a moot point, I guess.

Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 11 2024, 03:44 PM
It makes it kinda easier to dispell or disrupt spells, so it's not totally without effect
Thanee
Nov 11 2024, 06:30 PM
@Jack: I am actually pretty sure, that Background Count is not a situational modifier (if anything, it should be environmental, or its own category). Not that it makes any difference here (deducting extra dice from the back, the hits do not change at all).
I assume you read it in a fairly generic way like you are in a situation (i.e. being inside Englewood) where this modifier applies, but "situational modifier" is a specific term, not a general description.
Those are usually specifically listed as such (see, for example, SR5 Core p. 135 "Escape Artist" and various other tables in that section, p. 176 ff. "Situational Modifiers", or p. 173 where they list various types of modifiers here: "Apply appropriate wound, environmental, recoil, and situational modifiers to the attacker according to the specific attack.").
Bye
Thanee
P.S. Curiously, they have an updated version of that adept power in the german "Straßengrimoire" (p. 198), which does not seem to exist in english.
Thanee
Nov 11 2024, 07:09 PM
Also, for a bit more productive question... Spatial Sense gives you a "map" (a very detailed one with 4 hits), basically, but no information about inhabitants (critters, people) or stuff (vehicles, gear, etc), correct?
I do understand, the obvious goal here is to look for those blanked-out spots that would be protected by astral barriers.
Just wondering, what kind of additional information I can give you based on that.

Bye
Thanee
Gilga
Nov 11 2024, 07:53 PM
Well, it would be funny if AM suddenly shrinks; kind of an Alice in Wonderland moment.
Jack_Spade
Nov 11 2024, 10:21 PM
QUOTE (Thanee @ Nov 11 2024, 08:09 PM)

Also, for a bit more productive question... Spatial Sense gives you a "map" (a very detailed one with 4 hits), basically, but no information about inhabitants (critters, people) or stuff (vehicles, gear, etc), correct?
I do understand, the obvious goal here is to look for those blanked-out spots that would be protected by astral barriers.
Just wondering, what kind of additional information I can give you based on that.

Bye
Thanee
Correct. I'm mainly looking for structures with intact infrastructure: Water, electricity, closed roofs and walls - maybe intact insulation as well and of course magically shielded spaces
Tecumseh
Nov 12 2024, 07:05 AM
Mato is intending to use his radar sensors to help fill in the blanks. Their range (20m) is much more limited than Bobby's, and there's a limit to what they can pass through (a cumulative Structure Rating of 20) but they can pick up on details like people and objects. Mato is reasonably sneaky and is willing to scout on foot to get closer.
I'll spoiler the full description of the radar sensors because it's long.
[ Spoiler ]
Consisting of a terahertz pulse-transmitter, receiver, and highly advanced processing unit, this unit computes differences in the Doppler shift between the user and the surrounding area, within a twenty-meter radius. This allows the user to view a three-dimensional map of the area and the elements contained therein, if in a vague, blocky manner. The radio pulses are able to pass through most solid matter, allowing the user to “look” through walls, clothes, and similar obstructions to see the outlines of what lies beyond. While individuals cannot be recognized at the resolution of the processing, shapes can give some suggestion of what items might be (tables, guns, balls, and so forth). The system is excellent at detecting motion, calculating exact distance (when combined with a math SPU), and accurately overseeing floorplans and the locations of persons and objects in that area. It is somewhat complex to sift through the data for a proper reading (a Simple Action is required), and while it can ignore Invisibility spells (but not Improved Invisibility spells) and many camouflage methods, it cannot discern color, lighting, or texture.
The radar sensor uses the same Visibility modifiers as ultrasound but can penetrate a cumulative Structure Rating equal to its own Rating x 5. Thus, a Rating 2 radar sensor can penetrate two Rating 5 walls, or a single Rating 10 wall, or three Rating 3 walls, etc. Radar systems are especially vulnerable to jamming and noise, suffering double the usual disruption. Radar pulses are detectable by any wireless device, but most won’t be able to identify them as anything more than background noise.
Thanee
Nov 12 2024, 12:15 PM
Matrix coverage is surely something you would notice, if it wasn't there.
You have access. It Is not perfect, but it works.
Bye
Thanee
Tecumseh
Nov 14 2024, 07:07 AM
Rolls as requested:
Sneaking:
Agility 10 + Sneaking 5 + Specialization 2:
17d6t5 6 hitsPerception (visual):
Intuition 6 + Perception 5 + Specialization 2 + Vision Enhancement 3 + Attention Coprocessor 1:
17d6t5 6 hitsI'll take that.
In case it's relevant, Mato's cybereyes also have the following:
- Low-Light Vision
- Thermographic Vision
- Microscopic Lenses
- Vision Enhancement 3
- Vision Magnification
Thanee
Nov 14 2024, 07:10 AM
QUOTE (Tecumseh @ Nov 14 2024, 08:07 AM)

I'll take that.
Yep, looking good.

Bye
Thanee
Tecumseh
Nov 14 2024, 06:07 PM
Is the person in the car moving at all, or are they sitting unnaturally still (like someone who is in VR)?
Is it possible to skirt around the garage to get closer to the house to sweep it with the radar sensors? I don't know how collapsed the garage is or what sort of cover it may (or may not) provide.
Thanee
Nov 14 2024, 06:40 PM
QUOTE (Tecumseh @ Nov 14 2024, 07:07 PM)

Is the person in the car moving at all, or are they sitting unnaturally still (like someone who is in VR)?
The person does not move much. VR is a possibility.
QUOTE
Is it possible to skirt around the garage to get closer to the house to sweep it with the radar sensors? I don't know how collapsed the garage is or what sort of cover it may (or may not) provide.
Yeah, looking through the house is no problem, the drones are more focused on the area around the garage.
Bye
Thanee
Gilga
Nov 14 2024, 07:27 PM
Technically the clairvoyance spell should be an easy option.
Jack_Spade
Nov 14 2024, 08:27 PM
Do it - should be a great way to clear the way. Spoofing the drones would also work
Tecumseh
Nov 14 2024, 10:24 PM
Clairvoyance sounds good. Let's be careful using it in the house. Clairvoyance is a passive spell so it can't be counterspelled, "but once an opposing spellcaster realizes there is an active sustained spell, she can try dispelling it" (p. 285, SR5).
I would worry that spoofing the Kanmushis would tip our hand. It seems likely that the person in the car is either a hacker in VR or a jumped-in rigger on overwatch. A hacker might be using the drones to keep an eye on the meat world why they cyberspace about, or the rigger could be jumped-in to the Kanmushis or some other drone. Either way, messing with the Kanmushis could alert them that something is amiss.
Maybe AM can get a closer look at the car with Clairvoyance while Mato sweeps the house with his radar sensors. I'll suggest it ICly.
Jack_Spade
Nov 16 2024, 06:15 PM
So, I suggest we catch the hacker and interrogate him.
If Mato opens the door, Bobby can turn him into a turtle - ridding him of any implants he could use for calling help.
Thanee
Nov 16 2024, 11:46 PM
You can expect that the doors are locked.
Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 17 2024, 07:24 AM
Indeed - but Mato is super strong. Him just breaking the lock or just the window should be possible
Tecumseh
Nov 17 2024, 08:27 AM
We know the Cats don't have a hacker on their team but they must have had one for the extraction. This bloke could certainly be that, although one might wonder why he's sitting in a car by himself. Maybe that's from being an independent contractor hired specifically for this gig.
Yeah, there are lots of ways to do this.
Smashing the window should be easy enough. He should be able to reliably break through Reinforced Material, which includes security doors and armored glass. (Not really sure what the difference is between ballistic glass and armored glass but I'm sure one of you could tell me.)
Shapechange has been dependable, although I don't know if there is anything to be mindful of due to the background count. Maybe Edge or reagents to set the Limit.
My editions are blurring together: do you actually need to be physically plugged into a datajack? If so, can we bash the window and yank the cord. He might barf all over himself from dumpshock, but it would also disorient him and make him compliant.
Mato also has a shock hand. And tranq patches. Or just general grappling and subdual. Lots of options.
Thanee
Nov 17 2024, 09:27 AM
Normal vehicles will only have ballistic glass, I would say, unless they are specifically armored up. For security or military vehicles, armored glass might be expected.
Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 17 2024, 12:30 PM
I prefer baleful shape change because it gets rid of any cyber or bioware that could stop us.
Also it allows us to act in the same ini phase, preventing the opponent from doing anything that needs an action.
Thanee
Nov 17 2024, 04:21 PM
Yeah, getting rid of any DNI (i.e. making the Datajack, which he will surely have, disfunctional) will also make it difficult to send off an alarm for him.

Bye
Thanee
Tecumseh
Nov 18 2024, 05:40 AM
We'll do the bash-and-cast. Thanee, do you need anything from us before we proceed? Does Bobby need to evade the Kanmushi?
Thanee
Nov 18 2024, 06:39 AM
While Bobby is shapechanged, there is no reason the sensors would pick him up / consider him a threat.
If Mato wants to get next to the car (so far he has been within range of his sensors only), he will need some plan to get there without being detected, though.
The car might have sensors running as well.
Or do you just want to rush in and bet on surprise?
Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 18 2024, 09:39 AM
Mato is fast - he should be able to move through the whole overwatch area in one ini phase.
Thanee
Nov 18 2024, 10:21 AM
Yes, he can definitely do that.

At that point, once Mato enters the sensor-covered area, we would roll for Surprise (with that +6 bonus for Ambush on your side, but you do not need to roll at all, if I got that right).
Then initiative (with appropriate penalties for being surprised; can only apply to the decker in the car, of course).
Then you can act (i.e. on Mato's turn he can continue his move (the limit to movement per combat turn will only apply from here, anyways) and smash in the glass, and on Bobby's turn - assuming that worked - he can cast his spell; potentially delaying action after Mato, if Bobby is faster).
Bye
Thanee
Tecumseh
Nov 19 2024, 05:47 AM
Initiative:
1d6+16 18Punching the window:
Agility 10 + Unarmed Combat 5 + Specialization 2:
17d6t5 4 hitsNot the greatest roll but it might not matter. The window can't dodge so that's +4 DV. Base 12 + 4 net hits =
16P.
Ballistic glass would resist with Structure 4 + Armor 6. Even if all 10 dice are hits, that would only lower the damage to 6P. That exceeds the Structure rating of 4, destroying the barrier.
If the off-chance it is armored glass instead, it would be 20 dice trying to get 9 or more hits to get the the damage below 8P. (Odds = 19%)
Tecumseh
Nov 19 2024, 05:51 AM
@Beta, it's been a month since we heard from you. Looks like you're still checking in every few days. You still tracking? Everything okay?
Jack_Spade
Nov 19 2024, 08:41 AM
Baleful shape change F6:
12d6t5 7Nice I guess the body resist roll won't beat that
Drain resist:
11d6t5 3No drain
Thanee
Nov 19 2024, 11:03 AM
Yep, his Body of 2 will not quite be enough to beat that.

Bye
Thanee
Jack_Spade
Nov 20 2024, 05:17 AM
@Tecumseh
All devices have a physical switch - otherwise you couldn't switch them on again after they powered down
Tecumseh
Nov 20 2024, 05:46 AM
I said Mato didn't know. He isn't familiar with microdrones.
Thanee
Nov 20 2024, 11:36 AM
Yeah, there should be some way to switch them on/off. That switch might not be very obvious or easily accessible, though.
Sidenote: Clairvoyance and Magic Fingers ... just switch any drone that is annoying you off.

Either way, Mato knows someone (who happens to be pretty close by) that knows a lot about drones.

Bye
Thanee
Tecumseh
Nov 20 2024, 10:38 PM
Mato is cautious about the drones. Maybe their feed was only going to the decker, but maybe it was being livestreamed to a wider audience. If so, disabling the drones will tip our hand, one way or the other. Mato doesn't want to bring them back to Tamarind only to have Tamarind's face all over their little cameras.
In fact, leaving them be might be the most prudent option.
Thanee
Nov 21 2024, 12:05 AM
There is all his clothing still, that should be more than enough to cover his eyes (and his entire body a few times).

Bye
Thanee
P.S. As for Tamarind... I was thinking that you could ask her how to shut the drones down.
P.P.S. As for "tipping your hand"... Mato was very much visible to the drones, already.
Thanee
Nov 21 2024, 12:24 AM
How does dumpshock even work?

According to the book, it is kicked out by the sim module, which is part of your commlink.
If you access your commlink wirelessly w/o a direct connection (didn't see anything that implies the connection has to be direct for VR), how does it shock you?

These rules are so weird in places...
Bye
Thanee
Tecumseh
Nov 21 2024, 01:55 AM
Okay, I misunderstood the positioning of the Kanmushi then. I thought they were set up to watch the perimeter, but once you got past them you didn't have to worry about them anymore. I didn't realize the Phoenix was included in their field of vision. That's fine. I don't think our general dash-and-smash approach would have changed at all.
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