Are we forgetting the steps involving blood of virgins and quenching in magical springs hidden in the mountains?


-karma

I shouldn't be surprised that this thread has grown like this. The word "katana" automatically adds at least a page and a half to any thread.

My opinion is, this is not Metallurgyrun, or Swordsmithrun, or even Craftsmanrun. Before you introduce complex, multi-skill rules for making a sword, make sure that your group wouldn't rather just resolve this peripheral task with a simple extended test and get back to playing the game.
That said, and assuming your group does, in fact, want such a focus on craftsmanship in the game, then anyone investing in multiple skills (we're talking about a significant number of BP/karma here) and tons of downtime to make a simple sword should probably have more flexibility than just how long it takes to finish. If they're putting this much BP/time/game focus into this, they ought to be able to make a superior weapon with inherent DV or AP bonuses.
That said, I wouldn't do what I just suggested IMG, but I'd also just let them make a quick Armorer extended test and move on.
YMMV

Ok recap

Virgin means raw

Handmade means mage shapes/craft it.

If a shaman makes a virgin handmade telesma ie Kachina Mask.

He acquires a piece of raw wood, raw minerals, raw oils-Olive just for one.

He carves the wood into the desired shape/form, sands and prepares the surface..

He then grinds the minerals into powders and mixes in the oils, making paint.

He then paints the mask.

So from what some here have said mixing the minerals with oil to make a paint, make it no longer virgin.

Carving/shaping the mask with anything other than a stone knife, makes it not raw/virgin?

So if the shaman used a saw powered or not, makes it not virgin materials?

RAW states that the materials used in a virgin item have to be "raw", does not state they have to remain in a "raw" state.

RAW states that handmade means the crafting mage must craft/shape it himself. Does not limit one to the tools needed for same. Check out the Alchemy Microlab, talk about SOTA and highly processed.

As for the quality versus manufactured, well if I buy a weapon focus katana, except for the focus rating, it is the same as a regular purchased katana stats. That means that it can be handmade, yes not easy but doable.

The status of processed or highly processed etc will apply in the enchanting test.

To me it is not the tools used to make an item processed or highly processed but the object/materials being made. To me making a folded sword is processed, if one adds things like Dikote, it is highly processed. One of my reasons behind this is the Alchemy Microlab.

yoippari,

Why do you have a greater threshold for a combat axe over a katana?

I would put the monosword much more difficult threshold than a katana.

As for steps/checks I like them.

Oh as for a side trip, spells like Mix Object, Liquefy Object, Analyze Object, Alter Object Structure\Lattice, and the list goes on, can give a mage crafter insights into how game weapons are made and how to duplicate their materials/structure.

Most high quality "production" katanas today are handmade. They're just handmade in relatively large quantities. The demand for high-quality katanas isn't exactly so great that it cannot be satisfied using by traditional techniques on modern steel Pakistani assembly-line katanas generally won't hold an edge and will break if you look at them the wrong way.

I don't care what tools were used. What I figure is important is the "purity" of the materials. That they are unchanged from the way you took them out of the ground. Which now that I think about it a heat treated steel is changed in that the heat treat changes the crystalline structure of the steel to form many really tiny crystals instead of larger and less consistent crystals that would be natural. So I think even a heat treat would be out of the question from "evil gm". So the best blade you can hope for is either the obsidian knife or a club with obsidian wedged into it to make a really sharp club.

The combat axe threshold is for two reasons. It has higher damage/reach/ap. Balance wise it should be harder to make. It also has the whole sliding blade built into the handle thing that adds to its realistic difficulty.

The monofilament sword has the exact same stats as the katana but it is cheaper and harder to get. Balance wise it should have the same threshold. Realism wise monofilament is a "miracle of technology" meaning it works because SR says it does. So with such miracles along with the rappelling gloves that allow you to handle it I'm assuming there is some method available to attach the wire.

Why they are equal is because a katana has more complex junk that goes into it's making (the clay for heat treating for one example) than your typical european style sword. A monofilament has one big step that regular european swords don't have.

Katanas have the stats in SR that they do because they are stated to be TWO-HANDED, that is the single thing that makes them "more powerful" than a regular sword which is considered ONE-HANDED.

The Saxons used the same methods of producing blades as the Japanese were for Katanas over 1000 years before the Katana was invented. Furthermore, the Katana was never a primary weapon, that was the No-Dachi or Naginata. A European Broadsword or Bastard Sword of the same era was superior on many many levels, they had to be to deal with the heavy plate and chain mail that was prevalent those days.

[/rant]

Your Katana is not Virgin. Buy one from a store and decorate the hilt with Orichalcum.

And a two handed sword would take longer and have different mechanics than a regular sword. In this case katanas also have all this over engineering going on during heat treat and the blade shape and hilt construction. So they have a higher threshold.

I have solution for this as one damn test. ( Based off the social skill / language limit.)

Artisan skill isn't really applicable to the test, its more a Knowledge skill so I'd advise using Knowledge ( Japanese Swordsmithing). Its very hard to get this skill and tends to make you high sought after by the traditional Japanese set. ( Otherwise your just making an approximation of the katana via armorer exclusively.)

Now for the test part you use armorer+logic, where armorer rating is limited by the amount of Knowlege ( Japanese Swordsmithing.)

As for the katana building process as the basis for a telesma, it can be done as a Handmade telesma if using modern-processed materials or Virgin telesma with hand mined raw materials. ( Its possible to make steel without damaging the mana levels but it would take extra effort and require extra research in order to do.)

Actually from my reading of the virgin rating you can do anything 'processing' wise to it.


'A flint' knife is shaped but not changed (it is virgin flint).

A few hrose hairs and a skull are not processed.

They way I see it you really couldnt have virgin 'leather' (virgin hide possibly but the curing process would make it hand-made).


The only POSSIBLE way to have a 'virgin' kantana is iff you could find a block of steel somehow 'natural' (freak occurence from chunk of iron and carbon deposit in a vulcano?) Though even here I am not sure since from my reading you could file down the chunk of ore into what you want, but the repeated hammering folding / forging process would make it processed.