The true same (actually add to magic rating (so overcasting re-adjusted) or the SR4 adjusted power focus that just adds dice to any test that uses the magic rating?

If actually 'adding' to magic rating, then that is very very nice.

If just Force extra dice to anythign using the magic attribute that hoenstly seems a little weak to me.

Considering the karma cost, I personally have no problem with a free permentant 'Aid Sorcery' for all types. Nothing says (unlikely you italicised) cumulative so this would be in place of having other spirits help (dont think you can have multiple spirits help a casting can you?).

Spell Sustain is the only questionable one to me, since Force of spirit doesnt matter. though if changed so the spirit can do either one of these (but not both), then that seems a fair break for the karma cost. And one 'fluff' addition. Sustaining a spell above ones force is painful and exhuasting, spirits regularly asked to do this repeatidly will suffer aminosity towards the caster

The SR4 adjusted version.

What? +Force dice to every Spellcasting, Ritual Spellcasting, Dispelling, Summoning, Binding, Warding or Banishment test you make is weak? I'm at a loss to even answer that. Aid Sorcery is substantially less than that, since it's just the same list of tasks except that you can't stack it with another Bound spirit's Aid Sorcery and it doesn't add to Warding or Conjuring.

And each spirit can theoretically sustain an unlimited number of spells. It costs the spirit nothing and the magician nothing but services. As currently written, an Ally spirit represents an infinite number of Force Infinity Spell Sustaining Foci. That's what I have a problem with.

Nerfing the dicepool bonus in exchange for that is not a good idea and I have consistently opposed it since it was written in.

-Frank

Well Aid Sorcery help with Counterspelling (always valuable), while +dice to magic test doesnt.

Hmm to say Power Foci is one my characters have always avoided (do to addiction / dependacy / and or theft potential). Personally I still think I would take the unlimited 'Aid Sorcery' (and Spell Sustaining (even if only a single spell))

Though will admit on review (and comparing it to a power foci), the ally as a 'power foci' is reasonably.

Same karma cost to bound / summon (with nothing esle on ally).

Ally requires Meta-magic, might fail and potential very painful drain (at high end).

Power Foci, could be stolen, doesnt have the 'extra' help an Ally can do (even without extra points on powers / forms / skills / spell spent on ally).


So I guess seeing the whole write-up I could go either way.

Personally I don't like the as power focus since it makes them very different from other bound spirits. I prefer keeping them a 'bound spirit' plus.


I think for mine I will go with the as written. With an addendum to the rules stating the Spell Sustaining is basically a spell. A spirit can not maintain multiple spells at once.

While this does make regular bound spirits a little weaker, how often have you dumped multiple spells onto a spirit at the same time. (seems a real fast way to eat up services).

Well, that's illegal - no sustaining spells while vacationing on the metaplanes. What is actually legal (and for that matter good), is to cast all your buff spells on yourself, your friends, your gardener, your favorite niece, pretty much everyone you know except uncle George (because seriously fuck that guy). And after each casting you transfer it to your spirit and tell him to keep it sustained with magical services until further notice.

And that notice never comes. And every couple of rounds it uses up another service for every single buff spell you cast on every single person you know. And it doesn't matter, because you never run out of services. You're going through about 115,200 services a day to keep up Increase Reflexes, Willpower, and Intuition on all your friends (assuming a Force 3 Spirit). But since you have unlimited services that doesn't matter.

Then your Spirit can jolly well keep doing stuff. He hasn't suffered any drain, he isn't at any penalties. As long as he doesn't go back to the metaplanes he can do anything he'd normally do.

And that's the part I find to be infuriating.

-Frank

Doesnt say a spirit can sustain multiple spells.

GM can very easily say a spirit can sustain a spell. Problem solved.

Spefically stating it does not count against the limit of one bound spirit for aiding in the learning of a spell. nothing about adding dice to casting.

Can 6 spirits all Aid Sorcery for a really insane casting dice pool (likely pretty much assured hitting the force cap)

Huh? If a reagent looks exactly the same as a "normal" object, how the heck does a gatherer know the difference between a reagent and a normal object? There's obviously some way to see the difference or no one would be able to locate or gather them. Even a mundane talislegger is able to locate and gather raw reagents, they don't even need the Enchanting skill, so it's not like they need some sort of "Mystical Enchanting Sense" to detect reagents. As long as the owner of the spirit knows what reagents looks like (i.e. has the Survival skill), the owner can pass mental images to the spirit for what to look for.

A spirit is the perfect reagent locator. They can travel at astral speeds to a suitable location (which are by definition far away from civilization) and they have the powers to survive these dangerous places such as mountain tops, the walls of an active volcanic crater, and the bottom of the ocean. All you have to do is point a spirit to suitable locations and let them search those areas.

A task spirit with the Survival skill could find reagents in the normal time, e.g. a natural radical reagent would take (threshold 12, 1 week) (p81). Any spirit with the Search power can find a natural radical reagent much faster (threshold 10, 10 minutes). Without the appropriate gathering skill, neither spirit could successfully harvest it: they'd have to contact you (or someone else) to extract the reagent safely.

A task spirit with both a gathering skill (Geology, Botany, etc.) and the Search power can both find AND retrieve reagents for you with one service. I suppose if a task spirit had the locating skill (Survival), the owner wouldn't need the Survival skill because the spirit would know what to look for on his own. A force 6 task spirit with both Skill(Survival) and Skill(<gathering>) would be a reagent-gathering machine!

Since all spells are capped by their force, I don't think it would be unbalancing to say that you can stack all your spirits' Aid Sorcery bonuses. You would be blowing a fortune on binding materials and still only get <force> hits.

Laughingowl's "interpretation" is itself completely unsupported. There is no limit to spell sustaining. Sustaining a spell uses a service, and that's it. As long as you can keep spending services you can keep sustaining spells.

-Frank

unless you spent that point of edge getting rid of that cap. That would make that really powerful.