Tripods state that they give 6 recoil compensation when used on a weapon.

Smart fireing platforms state that they are non-mobile robotic tripods, that comes with software and are able to fire the gun or let someone remotely aim and fire the gun. Only if the gun is smartlink enabled.

My question is, since the smart fireing platform doesn't say it grants any recoil compensation, does that mean you trade getting 6 points of RC for being able to aim and fire a gun without exposing yourself to return fire?

Another question, is the interpretation of "non-mobile". I understand it to mean that the tripod can't walk around on its own, like a 3 legged drone. Someone else said they though it mean you installed the SFP in a location, and could not move it, but would then be able to attach a weapon to it.

Non-mobile to me means the tripod can't move itself around

To them its that the tripod cannot be moved.

I imagine them to be the sentry turrets from aliens, you can lug them up to a location and set them up, then they scan for items and shoot. Since they are a tripod, they have the benefits of a tripod.

Aye, like sentry turrets. Agree.

wow, rather one sided so far, eh?

So, to add some discussion in with this, would you allow a hacker to carry an SMG with a SFP attached to it around, when combat starts, set it down around a corner and drop into full VR, then use it to combat semi-effectively along with the street sammies?

a non-mobile tripod, to me, would be like what i used for the .50 cal in the army. the tripod and weapon are both man-portable (different men, obviously), so you can break the gun and tripod down and move them to a different location. you can't use them while you're moving them--they have to be set up again.

See, and instead, for the cheap cost of 3000, one can get a doberman instead. Which moves on its own, and has a weapon. Its only 1000 more than a smart fireing platform even. And, depending on your GM, you might get the gun with it for free.

Well, in a sense these SFPs are just immobile drones. I don't see why you can't just jump in them (or say someone else) and lug them around.

However, setting them up should take something more than just setting it down and running away. It should be a complex action to unlimber it, set it properly, and so forth.

But as long as the SMG has a smartgun system I say why not?

Sure, but if they toss in a streetline special for free...

To me, tripod is 3 legs that come out of the gun, that i'd assume fold up under it somehow when not in use. Since it says sitting or kneeling only, I think of it like a camera tripod, but shorter. Maybe half as tall. Those aren't that hard to set up, you pull on one of the legs and the others come out, till it locks. Done. I don't see how 3 hollow tubes of metal would add a whole ton of weight to a weapon to the point of making it unwieldy or anything. Especially in the case of HMGs and the like.

To address your point, most people have a good sense of how large a HMG is. I've explained my view of how large a tripod would be. And, to address the SFP issue, I don't see how if we have cyberarms with mechanical muscles in them that have room to spare, there couldn't be some servos on the SFP strong enough to replicate someone holding a gun and aiming it. Which leads me to believe it'd be negligibly heavier than the base tripod model.

Edit: To support my position a bit, I googled up some tripods, and found the M122/M122A1 tripod. M60, M240 and M249 machine guns use it. And it weighs 14 pounds. An updated version of it being used more often is 11.5 pounds. By 2070, I'm very sure the weight is near negligible.

Tripod
Heres my link. Looks like its the whole shebang except for the gun, 11.5 pounds. Not really unwieldy. SFP couldn't be much more than double that weight considering sensor weight is negligible, and they can reproduce your arm strength for aiming with servos pretty easy.

You don't really need any arm strength for aiming. That's what the T&E does, assuming you have the tripod properly stabilized with sandbags. It's faster to not use the T&E, but you can do some very cool things using the T&E. Like hitting a target that you can't detect but someone else can, or laying down several hundred meters of grazing fire that kills anyone moving through it.

My point is for the SFP, you aren't touching the gun whatsoever. Thus, the tripod is turning and aiming the gun on its own, which is why I made the point about arm strength and servos.

So, you accept a tripod with all the stuff required for it weighs a whole 11.5 pounds? Fantastic. So is it outside the realm of possibility that the SFP (which is just a tripod with some motors and sensors) is at least under 23 pounds (double the basic tripod).

So, is it not feasible to take an AK-97 Carbine (SMG class) weight just under 6lbs, according to wikipedia. Put a SFP on it (making total weight just under 29 pounds). Throw some ammo on it, I doubt a clip weighs much more than 2 pounds, so call it 31 pounds. I don't think its unresonable to be able to carry 30 pounds around, especially if you had some sort of should sling for the thing. Then its a matter of extending the tripod, and laying it in the general direction of what you're wanting to fire at. Duck behind the corner, hit AR/VR and start giving it orders.

Sure. Of course the recoil would result in the entire tripod and gun moving around, and probably flipping over in automatic fire, but other than that it would work fine.

If you sandbag it, stake the legs, or otherwise greatly increase the effective mass of the system it works a lot better.

You think the 20some odd pounds (roughly 3x the weight of the gun itself) isn't enough to keep its feet on the ground for an SMG which is shooting pistol ammo?

47 is an assault rifle. It shoots rifle bullets. SMGs shoot pistol rounds. They have less recoil. The weapon I used in my example is an SMG. And, if you have the kid lay down, and strap the gun around his stomach, lay on his head, and shoot over his legs, I think his weight would do a very good job of controlling the recoil from the SMG.

Then take any of the other SMGs listed in the book instead. mp5, or uzi if you'd like. As far as the game is concerned, recoil from tasers through assault rifles is the same. The only distinction is for heavy weapons (shotguns, MGs) that take double recoil penalties.

Pistols do not have bottom mounts, thusly can't mount tripods, bipods, or SFPs.

The LMG comes with a 5pt gas vent (barrel attachment) recoil that can't be removed or enhanced. So yes, that would stack with a bipod/tripod/shock pad.

I do agree that you could bolt a SFP down, and tie it into building defences, but in the context I was asking, was if you could attack your gun to your SFP, fold it up, see people approaching, set the gun up and drop behind some cover while ordering it to fire on the people.

There would be a few benefits to an AR SFP over an LMG one. Attach an ares alpha, and it can fire a grenade as well as going for full auto/bursts. Not only that, but an AR fireing on full auto from an SMP is at a base of (-9 full auto, +6 tripod) -3 recoil penalty. A MG is at (-9 full auto, +6 tripod = -3 x 2 heavy weapon) total -6 penalty. Now, if you use it on the LMG then its got 5 built in + 6 tripod and has no recoil penalty.

Regardless, I guess the answer is, it would be man portable, able to be set up with a complex action (as all bipods/tripods are) and anything with a bottom mount can be attached to it.

I guess the last question I have, is do folding stocks/shock pads have any effect on recoil when the weapon is attached to an SMP? My common sense says no. RAW says yes. Any disagreements with that?

So, would you rule the same for the 10 pound tripod as well? Effectively making a street sam burn his first 2 IPs to setup his tripod, and hook his gun on it?

Or are you ruling that way only because I guessed that at most an SFP would weigh twice that of a normal tripod. What if the difference was marginal? And the SFP weighed about the same as a tripod? A tad over 10 pounds. Why couldn't you carry the weapon around with the tripod folded up? I guess, argueably, by RAW the tripod takes no action to set up, so its 1 complex action to attach your gun to it, and nothing or a free to set the tripod up. Which makes it marginally better, but not by much.

Page 301/302 says which weapons have mounts and such. In the sidebar about gear ratins.

In the game, the most sensible weapons to use tripods with are ones that can fire full auto. Hows this, the SFP has motors and servos and the like, why can't you toss it on the ground and tell it to set itself up? Or, carry it deployed (on a strap or somesuch) and free action "drop item" it on the ground, complex action attach your gun.

The rules say shock pads are 1RC, and folding stocks are 1 RC. Therefore, even if its mounted on a drone, they still provide their recoil the same as a gas vent, tripod, or anything else. You can't actually add a folding stock to a weapon, its not in the list. Only those SMGs/Pistols that come with one have noe, so your point about that is moot.

RAW saw yes, because shock pads provide 1 point of RC. It doesn't say "only while holding the weapon against your shoulder". Or "not if the weapon is in a vehicle mount". Therefore, a weapon with a shock pad, mounted on a vehicle has 1RC. By RAW. You could make an arguement that a mount (or the SFP) is designed to utilize the shockpad if the weapon attached has one, and thats why it gives the bonus.

yah, the sammy would be strong enough to do it.

As far as the folding stocks and shock pads, those items are typically listed in parentheses. On the gear ratings box on page 302, it states (emphasis mine):

Doesn't everything have weights. It just isn't a listed stat. There is the section on encumbrance that tells the gm to make things up if he figures a character is using too much.

Friend, you're right, I conceed that point, must've just missed it.
How short is short? What about someone with a strength of 4, 5, 6, 7, etc. When would you stop assessing penalties. What if they were a troll? (With the extra long arms and such should be easier to carry). Wouldn't a troll have at least as hard of a time getting through a doorway as a human with a deployed tripod&gun strapped on his chest?

Gothic: That is a tripod as defined by the SR4 book.

Your first link says "the gun is mounted on a tripod of unusual appearance and design." Which tends to imply your example is not typical of a tripod, nor does it match the descriptions of the SR4 book in that it is only usable sitting or kneeling. Not standing.

A smart platform does not offer RC in my opinion - the usual advantage of a tripod is a second stable point for balancing the weapon, the first being the operator.

If you were to use it as a tripod, no objections from me against the RC. But not on it´s own. Feel free to add stand-alone RC as extra equipment (stronger servos etc).

Tarantula, the tripod you linked takes a military-disciplined 2 man crew 45-60 seconds to deploy and be ready to fire. How many rounds is that? 7-10 rounds of complex actions?