Full Version: Genetech Doctor
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| Cerebral Booster is standard design, it just needs to grown from a sample from the host. Everything is of a standard design. Nothing experimental at all. |
Yes, the piece of Bioware known as a Cerebral Booster does exist in design. We'll not bring up the matter of each and every one having to be cultured to the person in which they are implanted. What you are talking about is Geneware, and there is no standard design for a Genetech Cerebral Booster. Only the Bioware Animal Features can be mimicked through the grafting of animal genes into the patient.
Really, read the description.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| @Adarael ... 5. Again minutia not incorporated into the game system. How does a character live before he joins the game,,,does he pay for lifestyle until he does join a game? |
I would have to disgree...
While it WAS minutia ... the instant your are expanding what you have done in 'rep-game' time to include specific blocks (and rather lengthy block) of time, then other factors of what you were doing 'during this time are no longer minutia'
If I take enchanting ...
'pre-game' can I have gathered, refined, and processed of orichalcum.
Don't need to spend a penny... just time to gather... time to refine ... time to run the 28 day circulation to convert the silver/copper/gold/mercury to a radical, then time to run another 28 day circulation to make the orichalcum.
Lets say spent a mere year doing this. (number of gentech you build would be way more then a year) (after all you have to 'build/repair' them (even if not designing them) THEN perform the medical operation to apply them to you....
So we need a radical copper/gold/silver/mecury to make orichalcum.
So we would have had to make a Survival + intution(-2 for needing specific type) (8 1 hour) test *4 (one for each type)
We will call it a day each, or 4 days to get one raw unrefined silver/copper/gold/mecury
Now it would be a Enchanting + magic (4, 1 day) test to make them refined. call it 2 days (magic+enchanting should be 6+)
Then a month process to process the refined into radicals (as they are all mineral can be done as a batch (if magic >=4))
So an easy 4 batches per year. (6 days to gather and refine, 28 days to process radicals, 28 days to process orichalcum, ~25 days or so of 'rest' (since we arent a machine))
So have potentially 8 (max possible from a batch of orichalcum) * 4 = 32 units of orichalcum...
Note if we want to be just 'rich' forget orichalcum just make gold refined reagants...
Survival + intutation -2 (8, 1 hour) to locate (30 minutes to actually gather) (call it one per day)
Enchanting (1/unit, 1day) (so go conservative and say 2 per day).
3 days = ¥40,000 (2 units) of gold refined reagant.
A month of doing this (10 batches) equals ¥400,000
6 months of doing this equals ¥2,400,000. (120 units)
Think I will have all the gear I can want / need / desire / though at my buddies...
Yep pre-game build/repair is certainly a fun option
Actually, initial resource expenditure is an abstract representation intended to provide chargen balance. It includes time and effort spent, as well as sponsorship. You always pay for nuyen value of the goods, not the actual cost that your PC paid. Even if your PC obtained the item for free, you still pay its actual nuyen cost in resources.
Likewise, chargen availability is abstract, and applies even to characters who should not suffer from it.
You can't say that you were an enchanter who made orihalcum pre-game to bypass resource restrictions and BP costs and more than you say that you were an IE to do the same.
Likewise, chargen availability is abstract, and applies even to characters who should not suffer from it.
You can't say that you were an enchanter who made orihalcum pre-game to bypass resource restrictions and BP costs and more than you say that you were an IE to do the same.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Actually, initial resource expenditure is an abstract representation intended to provide chargen balance. It includes time and effort spent, as well as sponsorship. You always pay for nuyen value of the goods, not the actual cost that your PC paid. Even if your PC obtained the item for free, you still pay its actual nuyen cost in resources. Likewise, chargen availability is abstract, and applies even to characters who should not suffer from it. You can't say that you were an enchanter who made orihalcum pre-game to bypass resource restrictions and BP costs and more than you say that you were an IE to do the same. |
Precisely...
Which is why also you can 'build / design' your own cyberware/genetech/bioware/etc 'before' game.
If done before game it is a represenation of 'build points'...
If you have encanting skill, you have some foci (bought with build points) odds are 'you made them' yourself...
If you have computer skills, programming skills, hardware skills and you have computer programs, (especially illegal ones) good chance you made them yourself..
But a build point is a build point...
| QUOTE (Adarael) |
| I like the old rule I and some of my friends stand by: "We are GMs. We know cheese when we see it. No." |
I'm with him on this one. Not a chance. There's a fine line between optimization and assraping the rules for fun and profit.
Also I really am genuinely curious as to how you plan to advance this character. Combat skills? More computer related stuff?
@Fortune
Go back a few posts this issue has been dealt with.
@Laughingowl
Interesting example that is a possibility.
@Draconis
Despite what alot here think, combat skills are not the penultimate in character development. As of right now, some improvements in combat skills would be interesting, but to me it depends upon what the character does prior to getting the karma points. If all he does prior to the awarding of karma, is deal with social skill types of situations then I would say karma would go into social skills.
WMS
Go back a few posts this issue has been dealt with.
@Laughingowl
Interesting example that is a possibility.
@Draconis
Despite what alot here think, combat skills are not the penultimate in character development. As of right now, some improvements in combat skills would be interesting, but to me it depends upon what the character does prior to getting the karma points. If all he does prior to the awarding of karma, is deal with social skill types of situations then I would say karma would go into social skills.
WMS
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| Go back a few posts this issue has been dealt with. |
Only in your mind.
@WMS:
Laughing Owl and Hyzmarca are totally right. Any money/resources earned pregame require the expenditure of Build Points. Allowing a character to earn (and keep) money pregame, WITHOUT spending any points, is game breaking and crazy.
Would you allow a player to do this pregame and keep their money?
-Take Knowledge Skills in Investment Banking 6, Finance 4, Accounting 4. Logic 5. Elf Metatype. Then he spends 30 years pregame working as an Investment Banker at Goldman Sachs. He lives a high lifestyle but manages to accrue 25 million in investments and savings. Then decides to become a shadowrunner (for thrills, for revenge or whatever).
-Or take an Edge 8 human (with the Lucky Quality) and the knowledge skill Gambling at rating 7 (has Aptitude as well). Pregame, he wants to go to Vegas and enter the World Series of Poker. He has a good chance of winning too. Would you let him play, win and walk away with a multimillion dollar prize? Then keep that money as he starts his shadowrunning career?
-JKL
Laughing Owl and Hyzmarca are totally right. Any money/resources earned pregame require the expenditure of Build Points. Allowing a character to earn (and keep) money pregame, WITHOUT spending any points, is game breaking and crazy.
Would you allow a player to do this pregame and keep their money?
-Take Knowledge Skills in Investment Banking 6, Finance 4, Accounting 4. Logic 5. Elf Metatype. Then he spends 30 years pregame working as an Investment Banker at Goldman Sachs. He lives a high lifestyle but manages to accrue 25 million in investments and savings. Then decides to become a shadowrunner (for thrills, for revenge or whatever).
-Or take an Edge 8 human (with the Lucky Quality) and the knowledge skill Gambling at rating 7 (has Aptitude as well). Pregame, he wants to go to Vegas and enter the World Series of Poker. He has a good chance of winning too. Would you let him play, win and walk away with a multimillion dollar prize? Then keep that money as he starts his shadowrunning career?
-JKL
@JKL
That was LO's example, not one that I would choose. In his he actually earns nuyen. In mine he does not earn nuyen, but reduces to the costs of the geneware. Yes it is murky separation between earning and cost reduction.
As for the other question, I would hear out the character's back story and reasons for same before I would rule out such. I would give it not much hope, but players have come up with some very good logics? for their actions in my games. In my time as a GM, my players continually surprise me at the depth of detail and innovation they come up with.
In other game system, I had a player with a gambling skill similar to what you have put forward. It was entirely with in the rules of the game system. In game he discovered the drawbacks to being too good a gambler. In that game system, the pregame was entirely different system. As for the World Poker Championship pregame, again I would hear the player out before nixing the poker game.
That was LO's example, not one that I would choose. In his he actually earns nuyen. In mine he does not earn nuyen, but reduces to the costs of the geneware. Yes it is murky separation between earning and cost reduction.
As for the other question, I would hear out the character's back story and reasons for same before I would rule out such. I would give it not much hope, but players have come up with some very good logics? for their actions in my games. In my time as a GM, my players continually surprise me at the depth of detail and innovation they come up with.
In other game system, I had a player with a gambling skill similar to what you have put forward. It was entirely with in the rules of the game system. In game he discovered the drawbacks to being too good a gambler. In that game system, the pregame was entirely different system. As for the World Poker Championship pregame, again I would hear the player out before nixing the poker game.
OK here is a RAW version of the Doktor
This character has two qualities, 1-Genecrafted which gives a 20 cost reduction in any Genecrafted items, and 2-Genetic Heritage which gives another 20 reduction in costs for genetech ware.
Costs of Genetech items is reduced by 40 % for the Genecrafted quality and Genetic Heritage.
Some of the Bioware items were done using Genetech, Augmentation page 93 under Animal Features "Most of the functional changes available through biotech (page 61) are also possible through transgenic alteration for comparable Essence and nuyen costs but longer treatment times (typically several months)."
Race: Human
Character Name: Herb Marcos
Street Name: Doktor
Body 2
Agility 3
Reaction 3
Strength 2
Charisma 2
Intuition 3
Logic 6 (8 )
Willpower 3
Edge 3
Initiative 6
Initiative Pass 1
Essence 3.0
Skills
Medicine 6 (Genetics)
Cybertechnology 4
Computer 4
Data Search 3
Hacking 3
Dodge 4
Perception 4
Cybercombat 2
First Aid 4 (Combat Wounds)
Pistols 3 (Semi Automatics)
Automatics 2
Software 1
Etiquette 3 (Medical)
Pilot Ground Vehicle 1 (Car)
+Genetic Optimization-Logic
Reprint
EPE PuSHeD
EPE Reakt
EPE Sych
EPE Qualia
Transgenic Alteration-Animal Features
/Clean Metabolism
/Skin Pigmentation
/Nictacting Membranes
/Tactile Sensitivity
/Cat's Eyes
Sensitive Skin
*Cerebral Booster 2
*Mnemonic Enhancer 2
+item is the one used for genetic heritage
/items are genetech under the animal features
*items are neural cultured bioware no cost reduction, not genetech
Knowledge
Medicine 4 (6)
Genetics 4 (6)
Bioware 4 (6)
Nanoware 4 (6)
Cyberware 4 (6)
Ork Underground 3 (5)
Ork Underground Gangs 3 (5)
Ork Underground Politics 3 (5)
Languages
English N
Or’Zet 4 (6)
Contacts
(Fixer) 3/3
Biomedical Fixer 5/5
Genecrafted
Genetic Heritage
SINer (Criminal)
Sensitive Neural Structure
Sensitive System
Allergy Mild, Uncommon
Character has
+1 dice pool modifier to all Logic linked skill tests
+1 dice pool modifier to all Intuition linked skill tests
+2 dice pool modifier to all modifier to all Reaction Tests to defend himself
+1 dice pool modifier to all Perception skill tests
+1 die to all combat tests against each opponent after the first attack.
This character has two qualities, 1-Genecrafted which gives a 20 cost reduction in any Genecrafted items, and 2-Genetic Heritage which gives another 20 reduction in costs for genetech ware.
Costs of Genetech items is reduced by 40 % for the Genecrafted quality and Genetic Heritage.
Some of the Bioware items were done using Genetech, Augmentation page 93 under Animal Features "Most of the functional changes available through biotech (page 61) are also possible through transgenic alteration for comparable Essence and nuyen costs but longer treatment times (typically several months)."
Race: Human
Character Name: Herb Marcos
Street Name: Doktor
Body 2
Agility 3
Reaction 3
Strength 2
Charisma 2
Intuition 3
Logic 6 (8 )
Willpower 3
Edge 3
Initiative 6
Initiative Pass 1
Essence 3.0
Skills
Medicine 6 (Genetics)
Cybertechnology 4
Computer 4
Data Search 3
Hacking 3
Dodge 4
Perception 4
Cybercombat 2
First Aid 4 (Combat Wounds)
Pistols 3 (Semi Automatics)
Automatics 2
Software 1
Etiquette 3 (Medical)
Pilot Ground Vehicle 1 (Car)
+Genetic Optimization-Logic
Reprint
EPE PuSHeD
EPE Reakt
EPE Sych
EPE Qualia
Transgenic Alteration-Animal Features
/Clean Metabolism
/Skin Pigmentation
/Nictacting Membranes
/Tactile Sensitivity
/Cat's Eyes
Sensitive Skin
*Cerebral Booster 2
*Mnemonic Enhancer 2
+item is the one used for genetic heritage
/items are genetech under the animal features
*items are neural cultured bioware no cost reduction, not genetech
Knowledge
Medicine 4 (6)
Genetics 4 (6)
Bioware 4 (6)
Nanoware 4 (6)
Cyberware 4 (6)
Ork Underground 3 (5)
Ork Underground Gangs 3 (5)
Ork Underground Politics 3 (5)
Languages
English N
Or’Zet 4 (6)
Contacts
(Fixer) 3/3
Biomedical Fixer 5/5
Genecrafted
Genetic Heritage
SINer (Criminal)
Sensitive Neural Structure
Sensitive System
Allergy Mild, Uncommon
Character has
+1 dice pool modifier to all Logic linked skill tests
+1 dice pool modifier to all Intuition linked skill tests
+2 dice pool modifier to all modifier to all Reaction Tests to defend himself
+1 dice pool modifier to all Perception skill tests
+1 die to all combat tests against each opponent after the first attack.
| QUOTE (WearzManySkins) |
| This character has two qualities, 1-Genecrafted which gives a 20 cost reduction in any Genecrafted items, and 2-Genetic Heritage which gives another 20 reduction in costs. |
Genetic Heritage only gives a 20% discount on Transgenic modifications, not all genemods. Still covers most of the guy's genemods, but it's worth noting.
@de4dmeta1
Oversight in my posting, the 40% cost reduction only applied to the genetech transgenetic enhancements. The cultured bioware did not get a discount.
Question is this the two different descriptions for each, one speaks of genetic enhancement(Genecrafted) and the other quality is costs of transgenic genetic enhancements(Genetic Heritage) both reference to page 72.
Is this worded differently to be used differently or just another way of saying the same intent?
Breaking it down
Reprint is under Phenotype Adjustment only got a 20% cost reduction
EPE PuSHeD, Reakt, Sych, and Qualia are under Transgenics so they got a 40% cost reduction.
Transgenic Alteration-Animal Features, Cat's Eyes, Clean Metabolism, Nictacting Membranes, and Tactile Sensitivity I am classifying under Transgenics Alterations, so they get a 40% cost reduction.
Oversight in my posting, the 40% cost reduction only applied to the genetech transgenetic enhancements. The cultured bioware did not get a discount.
Question is this the two different descriptions for each, one speaks of genetic enhancement(Genecrafted) and the other quality is costs of transgenic genetic enhancements(Genetic Heritage) both reference to page 72.
Is this worded differently to be used differently or just another way of saying the same intent?
Breaking it down
Reprint is under Phenotype Adjustment only got a 20% cost reduction
EPE PuSHeD, Reakt, Sych, and Qualia are under Transgenics so they got a 40% cost reduction.
Transgenic Alteration-Animal Features, Cat's Eyes, Clean Metabolism, Nictacting Membranes, and Tactile Sensitivity I am classifying under Transgenics Alterations, so they get a 40% cost reduction.
Definitely looks a lot better now. 
My suggestion, given that you've got a GM who is going to allow you to craft half-price gear while ignoring availability restrictions, is to make sure every PC has at least one angle covered: bio-, cyber-, drones, and armorer.
Step 2 is to write each other into your back stories, so that you've ben friends for years. Then buy, I mean "craft," stuff for everyone.
Your overall uberness as a team will shoot through the roof.
Step 2 is to write each other into your back stories, so that you've ben friends for years. Then buy, I mean "craft," stuff for everyone.
Your overall uberness as a team will shoot through the roof.
@James
Cyberware is the easiest to do,but it only works well if you doing the standard grade cyberware, the additional costs of the better grades is not worth it, for the little gain on essence.
Bioware would require a 200,000 nuyen facility so unless the game is a 500 pointer, not enough nuyen left to make it work for a 400 pointer.
Armorer can be done also very well too.
Drones and vehicles can be done, but I default to a previous edition vehicles including drones requires a facility.
But all of the building is of existing designs, not creating new designs.
In a previous game of long ago a PnP one, myself and two other players played identical triplet decker/riggers. We each took a part of the build and built that. We each had a specialty in decking too. GM allowed us to deck as a single icon, but to act each as a different head. ie name was Cerebus.
You might check out on SRO, a 500 point no availability limit, no limit on qualities game being played there. Interesting builds there,,none really over the top.
WMS
Cyberware is the easiest to do,but it only works well if you doing the standard grade cyberware, the additional costs of the better grades is not worth it, for the little gain on essence.
Bioware would require a 200,000 nuyen facility so unless the game is a 500 pointer, not enough nuyen left to make it work for a 400 pointer.
Armorer can be done also very well too.
Drones and vehicles can be done, but I default to a previous edition vehicles including drones requires a facility.
But all of the building is of existing designs, not creating new designs.
In a previous game of long ago a PnP one, myself and two other players played identical triplet decker/riggers. We each took a part of the build and built that. We each had a specialty in decking too. GM allowed us to deck as a single icon, but to act each as a different head. ie name was Cerebus.
You might check out on SRO, a 500 point no availability limit, no limit on qualities game being played there. Interesting builds there,,none really over the top.
WMS
No thatnks. It's not something I would want to do. It just seemed like the optimal abuse of a system that lets you ignore availability and get half price gear.
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