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Vision and Hearing enhancements fall into the same Medkit category too. It's basically a DP modifier you can purchase. (So is a Smartlink, I guess.) Now, maybe Medkits (and using Program ratings as a DP bonus) is a problem because they go up to 6, while Vision/Hearing enhancements cap at 3.

Or is it the lack of any potential DP penalties for Hacking tests that's the issue?
QUOTE (Malachi)
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Sep 26 2007, 10:36 AM)
Languages never require a skill check. You are either passable (rating 1) which means you can communicate concepts but not well, giving a -2 penalty to checks involving communication. Next is conversational (rating 2) which has no penalty. For every rating point above 2, you are fluent in a specific dialect of the language, able to pass for a native speaker. This can eliminate penalties when talking to xenophobes, or aid in disguise.

I don't make my characters roll Language Skill checks, but I do enforce this rule:
QUOTE (SR4 @ pg. 130)

When a character attempts to influence someone using another
language, her persuasive ability is limited by her ability to
convey ideas and concepts in that language. To reflect this, whenever
a character uses a Charisma-linked Social skill to interact
with another character in a non-native tongue, the Social skill
dice used may not exceed the character’s Language skill rating

Kinda puts a clamp on those super "pornomancer" adepts...

But love is the universal language! love.gif rotfl.gif

Yeah, any SR game I've played in we very rarely enforce Languages directly outside whether you have it or not. That limit you quote covers pretty much all of it anyway. Usually if you are trying to get something really important across worth rolling for there is a social skill to roll for anyway, like Leadership or whatnot.
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Sep 27 2007, 11:08 AM)
I guess it was just a memory carry over from DnD. That damn game sublet a huge portion of my cerebral cortex with all of it's damn rules.

That portion: it's called a tumor.

Well, it would explain my chronic migraines I guess. Curse you Dungeons and Dragons!

Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (blakkie)
That is the thing, RAW does use the standard A + B +/-modifiers where A and B are the two most pertanent core sources. Although A and B not being Skill and Attribute is a little unusual there are other cases of this with Attribute and Attribute. It's these house rules of adding caps and other stuff that is really deviating (although the way you are doing it is sort of like spellcasting). It just seems to be extra futzing around something that already is scaled to their opponents ingame and works fine.

...but compared with other HR variants I have seen on not just this thread but on this board, it is the least amount of "futzing" (gee, I thought I was the only one to use this term) in that programmes are still the same and the mechanic mirrors that of a test mechanic already put forth in the RAW (magic).
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
"futzing" (gee, I thought I was the only one to use this term)

I say it too. I learned it from my mom.
Well I'm old so I get to use that word. wink.gif And I likely picked the word up from my Grandmother decades ago.

With the SR4 dice system capping successes when you are doing a lot of vs. tests isn't generally a good idea. Magic sort of gets away from that by having really high caps. Even an also-ran mage with Magic 4, at will, raise the cap spellcasting success cap to 8. 8 is fairly high, capping at 3, 4, or even 5 is not, especially if that is a defensive vs. roll. Among other things it severely cripples Edge.

Of the house rules I've seen here Buster's has likely the best IMO. But I probably feel that way partially because when GMing that's similar to what I do for NPCs. Comlink Response=program rating, and they either have a hacking comlink/device with all the programs or a legit comlink/device with none of them but all the standard apps. EDIT: That isn't really a house rule, it's just a paperwork notation shortcut.

EDIT: Of course the other things I like about are:
- it is that it makes it more about characters and less about stuff. RPGs are at the code are about characters and the further you get from that the less it is an RPG, and I happen to like RPGs.
- if anything it reduces the futz-osity vs. RAW.
- it is a different way of fixing the wacked program pricing table (by effectively tossing it), although it makes comlinks a steal of a deal so the already relatively cheap to make decker becomes even cheaper...maybe it'd make sense to price 'hacking' comlinks with hacking suite bundled higher...or as Buster has done just accepted that hacking is even more prevalent among the population than even the SR4 rules have made it
ok guys, thanks for the positive feedback on "Suerte o Muerte", pity I seem to have deleted the positive part (vegm.gif showing) Of course feel free to yoink, tear apart and futz around with it.

Another house rule I remembered is that we gave contacts a capacity of 2. We don't like contact lenses too much I guess. A couple of players are using AR / smartlink monocles that are quite nifty.

A couple minor ones:

some Augmentation qualities meant only for CZ and cyborgs are open to everyone (i.e. phobias, other mental quirks)

Also: SOTA; hacking programs degrade every month, but you can pay an update fee similar to the cyberware upkeep of augmentation; or else write some bit s of code.


Kyoto Kid
...I've thought about incorporating capacity for the various wearable sensory mods. Somehow 5 different vision mods in something half the size of a dime and almost as thin as paper seems a real stretch of the imagination. Since they can't be hardwired about the only mod I have characters take on contacts is Low Light (since I usually play human characters). Personally, I am actually kind of surprised that capacity wasn't already implemented (basically it is supposed to be inferred at Chargen though adding all the availability factors together & when you reached 12, that was it).

As to CZ Negative Qualities in Augmentation it mentions that characters may take them on GM approval. Phobias, Manias, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and Delusions would be the most likely ones for a PC.

Playing a Matrix Specialist currently I would actually prefer the SOTA rule for programmes. Gives the character something to do during downtime and makes skills like Programming a little more useful.
Emperor Tippy
Yeah, I wouldn't mind program upkeep. But don't go over board. There is like 15 programs. So maybe a 1 hour extended test per program. Not sure what to put the threshold at.

Oh, I usually slash the build times on all programs by at least 1 category (day becomes hour, week becomes day, etc.). When you can program in VR at the speed of thought it shouldn't take you a month to write a simple browse program.
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
Playing a Matrix Specialist currently I would actually prefer the SOTA rule for programmes. Gives the character something to do during downtime and makes skills like Programming a little more useful.

That's what we ended up doing.

Program Degradation – Due to the constant progress of SOTA software, a character’s common use and hacking programs tend to degrade in effectiveness if not regularly updated. Every three months (for common use programs except Encrypt) or every month (from hacking programs and the Encrypt program), a character’s programs loose one point of rating (to a minimum rating of 1) unless the character makes an effort to keep the program up to date. For common use programs (including Encrypt) this can be as simple as paying for upgrades, which generally cost 1/10th the initial purchase price of the program. A hacker can bypass this cost and upgrade the program himself by making an extended Logic + Software (program rating; 1 hour) test, and indeed is almost required to do so with hacking programs as no legal update services for such programs exist.

Currently, we're sitting at 11 pages of house rules, mainly just tweaks, some campaign stuff, some legacy stuff.
My GM's house rule on recoil:
STR 6 gives +1 recoil compensation. +2 at STR 9, +3 at STR 12, etc. There is lotsa fluff about trolls with big guns, but no actual rule in RAW making them any more effective with a big gun than a STR 1 human.
Well I used a system where the System rating WAS all the common use programs. They had no SOTA because they updated all the time just like today. You didn't really have a rating for individual programs anyway. I almost never had a player roll for a common use program in the first place so I stopped bothering. If they didn't have a computer skill then they had to roll to default though.

One of the ideas I had for hacking programs is that a hacking program rating isn't based on giving extra dice or anything like that. You roll your Logic + Hacking to do actual hacking. The rating reflects what level of system that your programs can handle. So if you are trying to hack a rating 4 firewall you need rating 4 hacking programs. If you don't then the time increment goes up by one by the difference between what you have and what you need. So if you have rating 3 then you take a minute vs a rating 4 system. If you have a rating 2 then it takes an hour. If you have a rating 1 then it takes a day. If you have a higher rating then the system you get extra actions. It doubles each level above the system rating of the target.

I was thinking that the hacking rating would be limited by your software and hacking skill ratings. Whichever is lower is the limit on your rating. Your commlink's response is also still a limit.

If you use someone else's hacking programs the base time interval is a minute. You can only fast hack with your own stuff.

Another thought I had was that the hacking rating fluctuated because the sysadmins are fighting to close holes all the time. The only way to stay ahead of this is to keep up with other hackers. So before each run on a site where they keep the system SOTA roll an opposed test of the site's system rating vs the hacker's Hacker Contact's Connection Rating. If the hacker gets equal or greater successes then their rating stands. If the site's system rating wins then lower the Hacking Program's rating by up to half it's rating rounded down.

If the hacker does no leg work or exploratory hacking of the target then they will not know this in advance. Otherwise they can pay to increase the rating back up to the limits stated above. This is from buying code from other hackers and reworking it to serve them better.
I still use:

1/2 cost for skills.
No Karma Awards (characters get extra BP instead).
Contacts cost "contact points" of Loyalty times connections.
Contact Points cost 1/3 of a BP.

No complaints on any of those.

And I use a triangular scale for Ally costs and don't alow people to Invoke them into Greatform. But that's more of a "pre-editting I don't agree with" rule than a house rule per se.

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
And I use a triangular scale for Ally costs and don't alow people to Invoke them into Greatform. But that's more of a "pre-editting I don't agree with" rule than a house rule per se.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "triangular scale"?
3 sides. Useful for weighing things.

QUOTE (Cabral)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Sep 29 2007, 01:54 PM)
And I use a triangular scale for Ally costs and don't alow people to Invoke them into Greatform. But that's more of a "pre-editting I don't agree with" rule than a house rule per se.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by "triangular scale"?

5 points per Force point it has to raise the Force. Allies get stupid awesome at higher Forces, which was my original reason for having them scale in cost like that. That and the fact that they always costed that much in previous editions.

But for reasons I still have yet to have explained to me, they were put on a linear scale. At least I managed to argue Rob out of his first idea: 5 Karma per Force Point.

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
5 points per Force point it has to raise the Force.

You mean like Force 1 is 5 Karma, Force 2 is 15 Karma, Force 3 is 30 Karma, etc?
@Frank Trollman
at half cost skills how do you implement that house rule with a specialize knowledge skill?

Frank's House Rule thread. smile.gif
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