Full Version: Shadowrun and Antifa
Seems like I mixed the two courts up. Thanks for the clarification.
I'm fairly certain all the Serbian war criminals were tried by ad hoc tribunals set up specifically for the purpose. The ICC didn't get set up for a long long time, because the US was opposed to its creation. The sticking point for us wasn't anything as noble as "you're violating the sovereignty that African nations need in order to govern effectively," it was more a matter of us realizing that US citizens would be left open to prosecution. I believe in the end, the compromise was that we wouldn't oppose it's creation, and in return US citizens get immunity from it. That's ok, though, because Americans never do anything wrong.
I personally think it's a noble idea to hold war criminals to account. Whether that makes me pro-African-child-rape is open to debate.
I personally think it's a noble idea to hold war criminals to account. Whether that makes me pro-African-child-rape is open to debate.
| QUOTE (Narse @ Oct 22 2007, 12:20 AM) |
| There have been some good issues raised in this thread. One that I would like to comment on is the Idea of political speak. Its mentioned in George Orwell's 1984 (not sure if it was originally his idea) that one can control the conversation and even rational thought simply by controlling the political terms used. A good example is Fascist: Major negative association and even more importantly: almost completely disassociated from what actual fascists thought it meant. |
Thank God people don't create and manipulate speech in the U.S.
I cannot imagine Orwell was the first person to notice that this is done, and has been done for a long time.
| QUOTE (martindv) |
| Thank God people don't create and manipulate speech in the U.S. |
I'm having trouble telling whether this is dry sarcasm or if it's said straightforwardly—if the former, my apologies for the things I'm about to unnecessarily point out:
USAPATRIOT act
Regime change
PROTECT act
Hard-working Americans (or enter nationality here)
Those are the ones that come to mind without delving into potentially contentious territory.
~J
What I would consider more telling control/manipulation of political speech is the way accusing someone of being a communist implies that they eat children (or something along those lines) and want to be the 2nd coming of Joseph Stalin. Even if said person has little to do with endorsing communist ideas.
| QUOTE (Narse) |
| What I would consider more telling control/manipulation of political speech is the way accusing someone of being a communist implies that they eat children (or something along those lines) and want to be the 2nd coming of Joseph Stalin. Even if said person has little to do with endorsing communist ideas. |
| QUOTE |
That's commie talk. This is America. Love it or leave it.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
I'm having trouble telling whether this is dry sarcasm or if it's said straightforwardly |
I should feel insulted that there was any doubt as to my sarcasm.
You should, but I hope it's mitigated by the fact that I don't know you and a brief glance at what passes for public discourse these days.
~J
~J
haha, yeah. i know several people who could say that and be completely sincere.
One day, someone will invent a device that lets sarcasm travel over the internet, and they will be a hero to nerds and jackasses everywhere. Well, at least the nerd and jackass that's writing this.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| USAPATRIOT act Regime change PROTECT act Hard-working Americans (or enter nationality here) Those are the ones that come to mind without delving into potentially contentious territory. |
One of my favourites is a former provincial (equivalent to U.S. state) political party here using as their slogan, "The Common Sense Revolution". They represented a minority, elitist view, made illogical claims, and represented the same-old-same-old power structure. But anyone disagreeing with them immediately got labelled as opposing common sense and change.
And all they did was draft a slogan.
| QUOTE (CircuitBoyBlue) |
| I personally think it's a noble idea to hold war criminals to account. Whether that makes me pro-African-child-rape is open to debate. |
Punishment is not accountability. Punishment is revenge. Revenge discourages accountability. True accountability can only come from universal forgiveness and reconciliation, because then people who made mistakes can freely admit so. A system of mandatory vengeance only encourages those who have committed the worst crimes to cover their tracks by any means necessary and encourages more violence. Once you've murdered one person, you might as well murder a billion more to cover it up; the punishment is the same, either way.
uh, that cuts both ways. once you've murdered one person, you may as well murder a billion more to cover it up (or even just for fun); forgiveness is the same, either way.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| uh, that cuts both ways. once you've murdered one person, you may as well murder a billion more to cover it up (or even just for fun); forgiveness is the same, either way. |
Yep. But since you can't make dead people live again, efforts should be focused on stopping the violence. Obviously, you can't just pat someone on the back and say that al is forgiving while to continues to prosecute a war against you. When he's ready to disarm and talk peace, on the other hand, slapping him in the face with the prospect of punishment only serves to cause more strife, particularly when he is willing to admit his wrongdoing and give up the means to continue fighting.
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