Speaking of Contacts ...

How are we to handle 'Gang Contacts' withing the Ancients? Are we assumed to have a standard 'contact level' with all (or most) other gang members?

Yeah, 100 Karma is SUCH a rip off for a starting character! I mean, like totally!

And Critias, I don't mind choosing another mentor spirit if you're really aiming for Adversary and prefer to be unique in that regard. My take on Adversary is probably going to be completely different anyway (more of the devil on your shoulder type).

Don't give me no lip, boy. I will END you!

What the hell? I think I was just possessed by my great grandfather's spirit.

In case you didn't know, Hermetics can have Mentor Spirits too.

What madness has SR4 wrought?!

...ok, well, that sounds just about perfect for this guy, actually.

Hermetic-style magicians have often had "mentor spirits" in a lot of fiction. Faust and Mephistopheles being a great example. Sure, he could have been an ally spirit or even a traditional spirit, too, but he works just as well as a mentor. If Roger Bacon were in the Sixth World he'd probably be a shining example of a Catholic hermetic mage with God or an archangel as a mentor spirit. Merlin had the druidic pantheon at his back as well as the Lady of the Lake. etc.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes sense just fine. One of the few spellcasters I've played (the only one to hit 20ish karma, in fact) was a very un-Shaman shaman, who didn't buy into most of the pseudo-NAN claptrap but who fit the Dog stereotype to a "T," despite his very hermetic mindset and approach. I know plenty of other characters that would be similar. Like I said, it makes perfect sense...but that still doesn't mean it's not creepy to hear after XX years of Shadowrun having such a well defined canonical split (that was, in many ways, one of the game's defining characteristics). It's just zany to read through the Magic stuff now and see how different it is.

In completely unrelated news -- does the shift to a 500 bp (rather than 400 + xp) build mean we're officially free to spend 250 on attributes? I'm having trouble making a (for lack of a better term) solid fighter/mage type, who's sort of by nature got to be halfway decent in pretty much every stat, as is. I've got (in theory) most of my character work done, and he stacks up just fine...compared to, y'know, the archetypes. *wince* Not so much when I try to hold him up to a Ghost or something.

So I'm still refining quite a bit, and the option of extra attribute points might (or might not) help.

No, I'm pretty sure the intent is 400 BP with 100 BP/Karma tacked on for advancement purposes via FrankTrollman's system. Just having some difficulty describing it as such.

That said, don't forget that the 200 limit on attributes is only for Physical and Mental Attributes. Your Edge, Magic, and Resonance attributes are exempt. Your average elf with a full 200 points could easily have B 4, A 5, R 4, S 3, C 5, I 3, L 3, W 4. So it's not too bad, especially since "4 is the new 6."

Yeah, I remembered the latter part (Edge, Magic, etc). Just still looking at my sheet so far and looking at some of the sample NPCs and stuff, and feeling a little sub par.

I think part of my problem is I have a pathological fear of being helpless in a game, so I tend to take Firearm Group when Automatics would be fine, or Close Combat Group when all I really need is Blades, etc, etc, etc. Considering I normally do this in games without Groups even as an option, I'd hoped it wouldn't sting so bad in SR4...but it's still eating up points pretty fast. I'm feeling like "Average Man" across the board, instead of being actually great at anything (be it casting, summoning, ranged mundane, close mundane, stealth, athletics, social, or whatever).

My wife calls it "solo character syndrome," where I always picture my PCs (regardless of genre) as being capable of holding down a story by themselves. Being decent as well-rounded individuals go, but less than spectacular when in a team where everyone's expected to have their schtick and really shine at something.

I had that problem, too, at first but I finally caved in and sold myself on some inherent flaws. They're what make a character anyway. And considering we have three magicians and an adept in the group, specialization is a much better road to take as opposed to trying to be a generalist. As you said, it tends to make you feel a little subpar at everything when you do.

I think Fortune is having a similar crisis, too.

If it helps, my character's specializations are on conjuring, swordsmanship (we could be sparring partners!), and mind- and body-atlering Manipulation spells. Hand him a gun and he's suddenly Mr. Awkward, and if he's not channeling a spirit he's pretty much a pushover physically.

Keep in mind that, even with the 200 BP limit on Attributes, you are always free to spend some of your bonus 100 to improve them.

Oh, uhh, and for the record, am I the only one letting my pink mohawk out a little in this one?

As wobbly as I know I still am with the rules (which is a whole separate issue), I'm doing my best not to worry as much as I normally do about real-world nonsense and realism and junk like that, with my character concept and gear list and all that sort of thing. I can honestly say, for instance, this is the first character in my 16 years of Shadowrun gaming to have "sword" anywhere on his inventory list.

I hope that's not going to be an issue with anyone. But, well, I can't think of a better time to play a little less cyberpunk and a little more fantasy, than in a game like this.

*thumps head*

Now I find myself going "Man, this is a lot of work when the group's already got two mages that are gonna be better at it than me, anyways. Maybe I should just take Latent Awakening, squirrel away 50 of my bp/xp, and submit an otherwise Mundane sheet, along with my background, to Fisty."

Pfft, don't be a pansy! The more mages the merrier. If for no other reason than to make Fistandantilus cry.

And yes, I, too, am having a bit of fun with this character. Not quite the pink mohawk route, but still fun. We're not professional runners (most of us anyway), so it's nice to be able to shed a lot of the stuff that's the norm for them. Plus I get to build with a theme moreso than normal! Eeee!

Argh! Brain hurting again.... so the 100 karma advancement, are we spending it BBB style (as karma) or as Frank's Karma to BP method or just Frank's using it as BP? Got kinda confused now thought Ben had said spend it BBB sytle and with it as Karma... but been offline since Monday *8-<

Frank's system all around. His original intent, apparently, was to go with the standard rules for advancement but he changed his mind to see how this works out.

Hehe kk, *digs calculator out again* *8->

Hey Fisty. Can we get an answer to my previous question about how to deal with Contacts within the Ancients themselves?

Sorry for the waits on replies guys. Those damn intials "R" and "L" have been getting uppity again.

Crit - 200bp on Core attributes (non-Edge/magic) and can build after that. Although really with the BP advancement, it's really the same thing, just semantics.

Fortune - All Ancients in teh Seattle/Tir area would be considered contacts. Anything with a loyalty rating higher than 2 though you'd have to pay for out of your BP.


Doc -

That's it. I *am* playing a Rancor Jedi in your next game. I don't care if it's not a Star Wars game or if you say no. I *will* play one, even if my sheet has a Jawa Splicer on it or something.

Just you wait.

We do still need to get that game going , don't we.

I care!

And on that note since you're drugged up, could you totally give us some spending cash? You know you want to. Let the drugs loosen your reserve and give in to your inner desire.

It honestly almost worked. damn drugs.
Then I remembered that old school moto when drugs came up, and it saved my resolve. You know the one; "Just Say NO!"

Aww. If you can't let yourself go when on drugs, what's the point? GOD. <storms off in a pout>

Speaking of drugs ... got any prices?

Depends on what you're getting and the addiction level.

I quoted Doc a few- for a dime bag,doses 5-1 depending on addiction level :
Deepwed $50-75
Novacoke $100-150

Chips are a lot more expensive, chemical drugs can be a bit more expensive than current day simply because of a low supply.

Do we have a targeted deadline yet?

Not yet. I'd rather not rush anyone on these builds, as I'm enjoying seeing them all grow. Keep PMing me questions and ideas as well boys. This crew is looking very interesting.

Think I'm neeeeearly done, just rounding out background, damn brain to paper interface not functioning correct..... grumblegrumble damndatajacksnotexisting grumble

I'm pretty much done ....

But you never know ... I might start all over again.

I have the brunt of my character finished as well. (And am totally in love with him to boot. ).

Crit's coming along well too, so if you guys will send me your drafts when you've got them set to go, I'll be all kinds of happy.

PM'd char sheet draft and 20 Q's, rest to follow soon (I hope). Away this weekend, but got Monday off work so hope to finish then.

No!

Nah.

Removed by request.

... what the hell was that ?

Is it really flaming if you speak the truth?

Does it have anything to do with the topics at hand or the purposes of the boards in general if you're only posting to bring up your personal grievances with another user?

Sure does. If he decides to stop playing, you'll know the real reason. He stopped playing last time because of one of the players in the group. Just a small heads up. Doc Funk can be a very petty individual, but then again, so can I when hurt.

20 Q are sent out to everyone. characters I'm geting in are looking grea.t Keep 'em coming folks. THinking that at this rate, should be another week tops to start. We'll see.

Since it was apparently an issue for some folks, please excuse the form letter-ness of the 20Q. I've used it for two years or so with various groups. I know the end tag is a little pushy. I just never really thought to change it.

Color me mollified.

A little something I'm writing up. A few of his contacts will be revealed by the end, a good bit of his personality, and a little something about what he can do. I know we're not supposed to be sharing whole character sheets and backgrounds and whatnot, but this is stuff that happened maybe just a month or two ago in-character, and it's a story that's likely to have made the rounds all through the gang.

If anyone wants to toss up their character's name (especially either of you other mages, I need someone later in the story to have been helping teach him how to sling mojo) here I can incorporate you into the story (albeit rather briefly) and just add a little detail to it.

Just a little nitpick: Ancients' colors are black and green.