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Cthulhudreams
QUOTE (Hat @ Apr 28 2008, 12:58 PM) *
My impression of brain hacking is that it allows the hacker to treat a brain as a computer with thoughts, memories and actions effectively being files and processes. It is therefore possible for the hacker to not only control another as a puppet, but to substantially read, edit, upload and download memories whole cloth.


Nah, it doesn't.

Because of the very proscribed limits in what you can do, the analogy with control thoughts is bogus as there is no control thoughts program. About the worst you can do is induce seizure or read his mind. As SMA points out the 'implant thoughts' action is totally weaksauce compared to control thoughts in terms of capability.

Brainwashing stuff that turns the guy into a drone is a StoryPower with the only rules being DM Fiat it up.
Hat
Cool. I'll definitely have to give the rules a thorough read then. I may wait until Unwired to decide what to do with the rules to see if that clears things up. I'm not sure when that will be out though. Glad to hear things are more balanced than some comments indicated.

Thanks for the feedback.

With a sweep of his...

Hat
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Sma)
If there's interest I'll post a short rundown on the programs seeing the most action, or other material that has accumulated during play.


I would be very interested in that.

-Frank
JoelHalpern
I keep thinking about these rules, and trying to work out the effects.
(THe following is NOT a complaint. I just am trying to walk the implication tree.)

In the rules as written (and in the current, limited world) if you detect an attacking hacker, and can't figure out what else to do, you can turn off the computer. Or just turn off the radio / unplug the computer.
But part of the premise here is that you can't unplug. In fact, if you turn off your comlink, you become a naked brain.

So what actions can a normal person take if they realize they are being attacked via Cyber? Not so much brain hacks, as remote attacks. (Brain hack attacks are just as difficult to deal with as a mage, or a guy with a gun.)
But if you can't turn off the cars computer, and you can't turn off your comlink, then it appears that you need an active response to an attack. Otherwise, sooner or later (and probably not much later) the remote hacker will be able to get in and do whatever he wants.

The question in fact is not so much what a shadowrunner should do. But what the normal corporate type should do. Even the corps can not afford, at the pricing I have seen, to install attack programs on every comlink. (Even if they could, there is also affording to teach the comlink to use the attack?) Is the assumption that in the SINner world, if you detect an attack, you call the cyber-cop equivalent of lone-star?

I suspect I am simply missing some of the assumptions.

Joel
Crusher Bob
You still can turn off the computer. You lose the protection of your firewall, but since you are not connected anymore, you are only vulnerable to LOS based hacking attacks. So if you are sitting in your living room, and someone is hacking your commlink, you can reset it or turn it off. As long as no one inside your living room picks this moment to try to hack your brain, you should be fine.
Sma
Joel first since it's quick to answer:

You are right that active countermeasures are the goto option when you want to stop a decker from hacking your PAN. If you personally lack the skill to stop the intrusion and notice it, you make sure to keep paying your monthly MatrixGuard™ rate, and a skilled operator will be with you as soon at the press of a (virtual) button. Just as you'd call the police if you see someone trying to break into your car.

Now for the shortish playtest results
The group consists of one full-time hacker, a rigger/doc who mostly dabbles in matrix related chicanery, chaos mage and melee adept, the last two don't really do anything requiring rolls at all. Both the rigger and decker would be decent sammies due to muscle toner and skillwires being cheap, they don't shoot often thoug since there's usually somehting better they can do. BP instead of Karma, commutative skills costs. They've recently cleared the 500 BP mark and the specialty dicepools are edging into the 15+ category.

SKILLS:
The most used skill is datasearch, mostly covering quickly getting more or less public information on people and places. Not rolling extended test here alone has saved a lot of time.

EW sees a lot of use in the form of Signal Defense. Specialising in it goes a long way towards being bulletproof. Possibly too strong for the marginal cost of 2 BP, but since none of my player

I ruled that Matrix Stealth can be applied to Icons in contact range, but needing to be sustained. This allows the decker to stealth the whole team, but makes him drop defensive programs or even run in hot sim, which adds nicely to suspense. Matrix Stealth in general could use clarification though since it's not inuitively obvious what breaks it and what does not. Playing by ear works well enough for us, though.

That said, the 80+ BP hit to get your matrix skills on, combined with the steep program costs, works out nicely to force a starting decker to specialize into their role.

PROGRAMS

Most used program is Misplace, both in combat to lock down drones and out of combat to provide cover from surveillance. This works exceptionally well since it provides room for all characters to do their thing, while not bogging down the game while the hacker makes a lot of rolls to allow for a relatively simple effect.

Backtrack and WhoIs are probably tied for second place, because the ability to know where someone is, is really good, especially since turning off a commlink isn't something that happens. We lowered the accuracy to "within a couple of meters" , but thats just for fluff and not out of any balance concerns. My gut feeling is that WhoIs could possibly use a higher threshold by default.

Find Mind takes third for similar reasons as the aforementioned two.

The other programs pretty much the gamut since they are situational.

Ostraka and single target jamming gets used a lot to steal unattended cars.

Jamming is strong. So strong each and every time a serious attempt gets made it succeeded. But are jammers only get used in extreme situations where giving up the ability to act is worth giving up your position and slowing down any attempts at getting hacked. Adding edge to your ECCM test after laying down ECM made for the odd edge case of being personally unaffected while still locking down everyone in range.

Jingle sees some use simply because it's fun, but never has seen serious use due to being too weak to convince someone to sell their mother.

From the combat programs Jingle is head and feet above the others. We reduced the time until the next resistance test to one round. Blackhammering pretty much only happens when deckers duke it out in the matrix, while crashing only gets done if everyone is feeling nice in a "slap on the fingers and off you go" way. Matrix combat in general, works just as well as mellee combat. No surprises here.

Jedi Trick fills it's role of making the cop's computer agree with your made up ID nicely, while also being the accepted universal key for all electronic doors. This means the hardware maglock passkey stuff pretty much only exists for people who don't wanna play with the matrix.

Recover and Obscure sees relatively little use, which is more down to our playstyle than anything else.

We changed Taxman to be connection range, thus it shares equal time with Brainscan and reveal Contents.

Backdoor pretty much does what it says, no quibbles here.

The other programs have never come up yet, either because neither of the deckers could afford them or because we haven't played any scenarios yet where they would have been useful. Probably lack of cash though.

Generally defense is really strong. Hits to oppose being hacked are uncapped, specialisations are cheap and attacker regularly runs into the caps set by his program ratings. An optimized starting character would probably be one that maxes out software and only buys those few programs that can't wait to be executed (combat & armor mostly).
This makes decently (dicepools 8 programs 3-4) protected hosts good enough to prevent a skilled hacker from simply walking over them while not being impossible to hack. Better opposition (dicepools of 10, programs in the 5-6 range) can be snuck in but any prolonged activity inside usually ends up rather painful.

Two deckers fighting is rocket launcher tag, and in the case of corp systems only one side has respawns.

Rigger Initiative (if its supposed to be equal to matrix initiative) makes sammies cry due to Response being added. Doesn't feel quite right, bot doesn't really matter since getting blown to bits on the count of 23 or 14 hasn't made a difference yet. Pilot and pilot accessory programming prices have been hitched up to thrice the cost and could probably take another raise, but haven't been enough of an issue yet to warrant a closer look.

Stealth nerfs I'm aware of are not being picky when giving people cybercombat (defense) 1 and EW (Signal Defense) 1, often adding 3 dice to defense tests. But since opposition you care about tends to have a decker of their own this only comes into play when mugging random people for their e-golds.

Still no doubt about going back to the official system.

Sma
Cthulhudreams
Turning your commlink off still beats any connection range attack, and for those that are LOS.. well the guy has an electronic handgun, so the same basic rules (break LOS) apply.
Hat
I've consolidated all of Frank's write up (1st 7 or whatnot posts) into a single word document complete with table of contents. Unfortunately I don't have a convenient place to post it. Assuming Frank agrees, is there anyone willing to host it somewhere? Each page contains title, credits and link to this thread. Send me a message or post an email address to send it to. Thanks.

With a sweep of his...

Hat
FrankTrollman
I agree to this being posted pretty much anywhere. It's open content.

-Frank
WeaverMount
Here is Hat's word doc of Frank's rules.
Earlydawn
Okay, seriously. Where the hell is Unwired? I'm starting soon and I don't want to jump over until I'm sure Unwired doesn't do it for us. This wait is just crazy.
Synner667
Looks absolutely fabulous.

Interesting, for all sorts of reasons...
...And useful info for all sorts of things.


Thank you.

FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Earlydawn)
Okay, seriously. Where the hell is Unwired?


I... don't know. I kind of rushed this thing in places because I want to make sure I beat Unwired to press so that it didn't get lost in the mists of the rest of the discussion generated by Unwired's release. But it's been six months already. I'm as confused as anyone not actually working on that project.

-Frank
Cthulhudreams
I'm wondering how much effort it would to add photography to it. Artwork seems unlikely, but there are big repositories of copyleft photography that could be used for that sort of project.

Anyone know roughly sort of how much art one would use in a book of this nature? Hat's document is 61 ages, typeset with no graphics.

I'm almost tempted to do it.

I have no artistic taste, but for example http://flickr.com/photos/kirklau/1357780086/ would be a nice coverpage image, or http://flickr.com/photos/vinpooley/97323254/ for the crisis of storage.
Sma
I have a version using my slightly modified rules and some rigger stuff. Since I have the annoying layout stuff pretty much set, and it's two columns remaking it with Franks version and adding images wouldn't be too much of a hassle.

That is if someone would be willing to do the searching for art part. (temp link to file with those images here.)

Be warned though, photos like the street one you posted usually don't come out as well on printed paper, unless you spring for a glossy variety
Cthulhudreams
The amount I know about the design and layout postage could be written on a postage stamp (assuming your handwriting is small enough to squeeze 'Go ask the design team' on there.) so pointers are useful.

What is the requirements for art stuff? Photos might be easier just because of the copyleft photography out there.

Sma
I am not a designer, thats just something I found out on occasion. I'd just go with whatever picture or photo strikes your fancy, because pretty pictures that might or might not come out as well printed are still better than no pictures at all.
Hat
SMA: What modifications did you make to Frank's rules and do they show up in your PDF?

With a sweep of his...

Hat
Hat
Ok, I finally made my way through all of the rules and ended up with a number of questions.

Is the sensors skill used to gather and interpret feeds from drones into an overall picture?

"A targeted jam attempts to remove a specific signal or close a specific connection. The character must have sufficient high density signal to reach both ends of the communication one is attempting to disrupt. "
I don't follow. A hacker is connected to a system with a signal rating of higher than 1 so out of the range of standard area jammers. Why doesn't jamming work by simply targetting one end of the connection to cause the connection to drop?

To resist jamming attempts does that take an action or is that considered inconsequential? If it doesn't require an action, why not? Good hardware will have some facility at cutting through normal noise and holding a good signal.

I would think of jamming as more like making a ranged attack. The jammer makes the Logic + EW + jammer rating attack vs.Targe Device Rating. On the defensive add logic + EW if the user is actively resisting + Signal Defense if someone's providing overwatch. I'd consider making it (logic + EW)/2 for a simple action and the full logic + EW for a complex action. You can shoot and try and keep your connection steady, but it takes effort. For drones I'd replace logic + EW with pilot + an EW autosoft.

Static Zones are mentioned quite a bit later (with no forward or backward reference). What determines the rating for the background created by a jammer? Would it be better to simply reference the creation of a static zone when jamming is done and provide a single unified mechanic for addressing this – whether background or otherwise?

Forge Credentials - is this used for online only or is this used for a temporary or permanent Fake SIN?

Hiding - what can you do while hiding? What besides launching a black IC attack breaks the concealment? Presumably a character would be actively hiding while attempting a hack a system.

"A full network appears the same as a lone device save that its distributed status is visible to anyone with any hits on a Matrix Perception test. Whether a network is running off a real brain or not can be determined with 2 hits."
What do you mean a network running off a real brain? Do you just mean that there’s someone’s brain actually subscribed to it?

Server Icons section "This manifests as having the server refuse connections to those who don't give the proper passcode. One can still hack in of course, and if the network or device which runs the server is taken down, anyone can log in to the server until it reboots. Since the routing is done with fiberoptics and such, shutting down the core computer does not actually stop hackers from forging connections if that's what they want to do."
I don't follow. Can you explain how a connection is established when the server doesn't have any power to access its systems? If a hacking attempt can be made in these cases anyway, does it require an LOS attack?

Hacking on the fly - is there anything that caps the number of hits on the logic + software test or is it conceivable that using edge a character with a program of 5 and a die pool of 10 could end up with a rating 15 program? Alternatively, does the hacking on the fly simply adjust the maximum number of hits that can be scored using the program? Ok, I think this got covered later, but the section on Response is confusing.

This section needs to be cleaned up. What's the proper wording?
"Response
Response is a measurement of hardware's ability to react to commands and The Reaction of the central unit of a network is added to one's VR initiative. Also, Reaction marks a hard cap on how high a rating a character can program on the fly. Finally, a character operating in the Matrix may take a number of Matrix Free Actions each IP equal to the network's Response."
So is it Response or Reaction that’s the hard cap on programming on the fly?

System ratings for Networks - highest individual attrbute or sum of components? I'm assuming it's highest.

With a sweep of his...

Hat
Hat
As another request, does anyone have any examples of these rules in use? I know Frank is or was running a game online for example. I'm trying to get a sense of these rules in action. Thanks!

With a sweep of his...

Hat
Sma
The online game has logs posted here on dumpshock, up to the point where it fizzled.

Not a lot of time now so I'll just field a few of the questions, I'll try to come back to the rest later.

QUOTE
Ok, I finally made my way through all of the rules and ended up with a number of questions.

Is the sensors skill used to gather and interpret feeds from drones into an overall picture?


Yes. Perception tests using sensors use Logic+EW+Sensor Rating, Drones use Pilot+Sensor Rating.
QUOTE
"A targeted jam attempts to remove a specific signal or close a specific connection. The character must have sufficient high density signal to reach both ends of the communication one is attempting to disrupt. "
I don't follow. A hacker is connected to a system with a signal rating of higher than 1 so out of the range of standard area jammers. Why doesn't jamming work by simply targetting one end of the connection to cause the connection to drop?


Targeted jamming requires only a comlink, no area jammer required. The test to resist does not use up an action on the part of the defender.

QUOTE
Static Zones are mentioned quite a bit later (with no forward or backward reference). What determines the rating for the background created by a jammer? Would it be better to simply reference the creation of a static zone when jamming is done and provide a single unified mechanic for addressing this – whether background or otherwise?


The rating of a static zone is either set by the hits on the test to use an area jammer (logic+EW+jammer rating) or set by the GM in the case of static zones representing ares with weird interference.

QUOTE
"A full network appears the same as a lone device save that its distributed status is visible to anyone with any hits on a Matrix Perception test. Whether a network is running off a real brain or not can be determined with 2 hits."
What do you mean a network running off a real brain? Do you just mean that there’s someone’s brain actually subscribed to it?


Networks and device can either just run off the hardware (having crappy stats) or run on someones brain plus the hardware (getting better stats). If there's a live metahuman controlling a network the network usually runs better than if there isn't, so two hits will let you gauge this.


QUOTE
This section needs to be cleaned up. What's the proper wording?
"Response
Response is a measurement of hardware's ability to react to commands and The Reaction of the central unit of a network is added to one's VR initiative. Also, Reaction marks a hard cap on how high a rating a character can program on the fly. Finally, a character operating in the Matrix may take a number of Matrix Free Actions each IP equal to the network's Response."
So is it Response or Reaction that’s the hard cap on programming on the fly?


Response is the Hard Cap for anything you want to run on your device, so it also caps the rating of programs boosted or created by hacking on the fly.

QUOTE
System ratings for Networks - highest individual attrbute or sum of components? I'm assuming it's highest.



Right you are.
Hat
QUOTE (Sma @ May 9 2008, 06:44 AM) *
Targeted jamming requires only a comlink, no area jammer required. The test to resist does not use up an action on the part of the defender.


The section states that both ends of the jamming attempt must be within range for the targetted jamming. My question is why both ends rather than just a single end?


QUOTE
Networks and device can either just run off the hardware (having crappy stats) or run on someones brain plus the hardware (getting better stats). If there's a live metahuman controlling a network the network usually runs better than if there isn't, so two hits will let you gauge this.


I understand the concept, but am having a hard time finding the relevant section of the rules. Could you provide an example showing a network with and without the metahuman added?

"RESPONSE
Response is a measurement of hardware's ability to react to commands and distributed requests. The Reaction of the central unit of a network is added to one's VR initiative. Also, Reaction marks a hard cap on how high a rating a character can program on the fly."

QUOTE
Response is the Hard Cap for anything you want to run on your device, so it also caps the rating of programs boosted or created by hacking on the fly.


Understood. My confusion is still with the section on Response. Note the use of the term "Reaction" at the beginning of the second sentence above and at the beginning of the third. Should that term be replaced with Response or is it actually referencing a character's reaction score or where does the reaction stat come from?

One other thing I was curious about. With Directional Retransmitters, is the goal to provide a way to do LOS attacks without LOS? Is there a limit to the number of DRs you can use? Have you encountered any problems with being able to chain a number of these together to grant the hacker a lot of additional flexibility?

With a sweep of his....

Hat
Odsh
Frank, one of the cornerstones of your set of rules (theory?) is that the human brain is required in the matrix because it is supposedly much more powerful than any computer, even in 2070.

A different approach would have been that, even though computers can attain better performances than a human brain, they do not "know" how to make use of this power. In other words, they use inefficient algorithms. If a soft is not written correctly, it can be horribly inefficient at what it is doing, regardless of the power of the computer running it. Writing a program can be quite complex, and if somethings can be done by us, but not by a computer, I think it is in most cases because we didn't find the correct algorithm yet, not because the computer has less processing power than the human brain.

Well this may seem like an insignificant detail, but with your rules, entities such as Deus or Megaera should not exist in the Shadowrun universe, which is a pity.

(Sorry if this subject has already been discussed somehow, I didn't read all comments).

Nicely written and well thought though!
RunnerPaul
Just read through Frank's rules. 31 flavors of awesome.

Under this rule set, would the Laser Link equipment option described in Arsenal have enough bandwidth to support high density connections, or is it stuck with low density data only? I have this image of a heavily armed CorpSec response team whose gear has all been faraday modified, supplemented by Signal 0 area jammers to make them nigh-untouchable by hackers, but they use Laser Link connections to maintain the tactical advantage that 2070's squad-level battlefield data sharing can provide.

A bit heavy handed, perhaps, but of course, nothing stops the runners from attempting the same kind of gimmick.
Hat
Ok, I've seen multiple references to Matrix Stealth including SMAs note of sustaining multiple of them. I dont' see a program called Matrix Stealth, though there are a number of programs and Patrons that reference it. Is this simply referring to the Hide ability?

If so, does it take up a program slot to sustain it normally even though it's a skill use rather than a program?

Thanks!

With a sweep of his...

Hat
Jaid
QUOTE (Hat @ May 10 2008, 11:26 PM) *
Ok, I've seen multiple references to Matrix Stealth including SMAs note of sustaining multiple of them. I dont' see a program called Matrix Stealth, though there are a number of programs and Patrons that reference it. Is this simply referring to the Hide ability?

If so, does it take up a program slot to sustain it normally even though it's a skill use rather than a program?

Thanks!

With a sweep of his...

Hat

just found this on page 1:

QUOTE
Datamasking A Technomancer with Datamasking can make Matrix Stealth checks with Resonance + Hacking instead of Intuition or Logic + Hacking if she wants. In addition, any time she makes a Matrix Stealth check she adds her Submersion Grade.


which rather heavily implies it's (intuition OR logic) + hacking.
FrankTrollman
Hide and Stealth are terms used interchangeably in this document. Sorry about that.

-Frank
Hat
Looking back over things I noticed that in Frank's ruleset Drones operating on their own only get 2 IPs. Was that a misprint or intentional? BBB gives a drone operating on its own 3 IPs.

Thanks!

With a sweep of his...

Hat
FrankTrollman
QUOTE
Looking back over things I noticed that in Frank's ruleset Drones operating on their own only get 2 IPs. Was that a misprint or intentional? BBB gives a drone operating on its own 3 IPs.


That is quite deliberate. It puts drones in on the level of materialized/possessed spirits rather than the level of Astral spirits. I did this because I found that a drone army operating on autopilot control was far too powerful under basic rules. It really isn't even that expensive to get a drone a 10 or 12 die attack pool, and if they are acting 3 times a round with it, it gets ugly real fast.

Independent drones are much weaker under these rules because they have less IP and they have to take a target acquisition action (something which is avoidable in basic rules). But since you are still rolling around with like 5 crawlers with guns, the drone rigger is still the largest pile of firepower that a player character can rationally aspire to. A straight Street Sam just has a fighting chance now.

-Frank
JoelHalpern
Some additional minor questions, having tried to go through the whole rule set together.

1) It looks like Submerged Technomancer deliberately have the ability by great form sprites to easily create level 4 fake SINs? (A reasonable Technomancer who has managed to get two submersions and Resonance 8 should easily be able to register a great form rating 4 Sprite. And thus great a veracity 4 truth.)
2) Similarly, submerged technomancer would seem not to have any money troubles. This seems a quite resonable power, given that all the money is in the matrix in practice anyway. But does it affect play balance? (A friendly Technomancer as part of an advanced team can rather markedly increase the team income.) I realize that if I assume, as seems reasonable, the rest of Frank's rules that there is plenty of room for BP based character advancement even if money is no longer an issue. But the game effect seems likely to still be noticeable.
3) I believe by the wording an upgraded car could be given some programs for use by its firewall, without needing to add IC? (For when the owner / rigger / ... is not networked with the car.)
4) It looks like for many purposes a signal booster sitting on the desk next to a Technomancer would make up for most issues caused by having relatively low signal. THere would still be the limit on the number of registered Sprites from low charisma. Are there other issues?
5) Does threading have drain? Does it have the -2 dice-pool sustaining cost? I did not see either item in the rules. I would have expected at least the later, based on the parallel with sustained spells.
6) When does a person take a Matrix stealth roll, and does it need a program? The roll appears to be Intuition + Hacking (although in the Datamasking text it refers to Resonance + Hacking replacing Logic+Hacking, I presume that is a typo.) DOes a hacker take their Hide roll once, and then just use that from then on for their activities?
7) The Resonance skill based actions of compiling, threading, registering, reregistering, unravel, remove task, and rend Icon do not themselves require complex forms, although those skills also do have custom complex forms to do other interesting things?
8 ) There is reference in the sprite section to Pilot Complex Forms. Normally, Pilot programs are specific to a given device / drone / vehicle. Is the Pilot CF also specific to the vehicle, needing a different one for each vehicle? (Presumably, whatever applies to pilot applies to pilot auxiliary programs as well?)

Thank you,
Joel Halpern
Sma
QUOTE
1) It looks like Submerged Technomancer deliberately have the ability by great form sprites to easily create level 4 fake SINs? (A reasonable Technomancer who has managed to get two submersions and Resonance 8 should easily be able to register a great form rating 4 Sprite. And thus great a veracity 4 truth.)?
2) Similarly, submerged technomancer would seem not to have any money troubles. This seems a quite resonable power, given that all the money is in the matrix in practice anyway. But does it affect play balance? (A friendly Technomancer as part of an advanced team can rather markedly increase the team income.) I realize that if I assume, as seems reasonable, the rest of Frank's rules that there is plenty of room for BP based character advancement even if money is no longer an issue. But the game effect seems likely to still be noticeable.


In our game we allowed the easy creation of Fake SIN's, but since we treat SIN's as throwaway items the impact of getting them comparatively cheap has not been noticeable. And while the Wealth power of Great Form Sprites allows for stuff worth a lot to be delivered to a enterprising Technomancer, it usually comes in a from not easily abused. I.e. a week of holidays in a luxury resort, a truck full of mayonnaise or lifetime membership in a golf club. All things that might be turned to cash at a loss, but give the Technomancer in question a nice chance to roleplay or for the whole tema to hit the casinos Oceans 13 style, while already having someone inside.

In a more cashtight game or one treating SIN's differently I would simply disallow these uses.


QUOTE
4) It looks like for many purposes a signal booster sitting on the desk next to a Technomancer would make up for most issues caused by having relatively low signal. THere would still be the limit on the number of registered Sprites from low charisma. Are there other issues?


Yes technomancers are able to get around low signal stemming from bad charisma by dropping a minor amount of cash and getting the same benefits as any other character. Though since they are summoners at heart, dumping charisma is not recommended.


QUOTE
6) When does a person take a Matrix stealth roll, and does it need a program? The roll appears to be Intuition + Hacking (although in the Datamasking text it refers to Resonance + Hacking replacing Logic+Hacking, I presume that is a typo.) Does a hacker take their Hide roll once, and then just use that from then on for their activities?


There is no program for a Matrix Stealth roll and it uses Intuition + Hacking. I require a Hide roll whenever a character wants to go "invisible" in the Matrix be it though literally becoming invisible or simply hiding as a innocuous icon. This roll sets the Threshold until the situation changes (switching nodes, launching possibly noticeable programs etc.).

QUOTE
7) The Resonance skill based actions of compiling, threading, registering, reregistering, unravel, remove task, and rend Icon do not themselves require complex forms, although those skills also do have custom complex forms to do other interesting things?


Yes, Technomancers are still playing catchup with a mundane hacker if they don't want to go the summoner route, due to the amount of programs required to accomplish most things expected of a decker.

QUOTE
8 ) There is reference in the sprite section to Pilot Complex Forms. Normally, Pilot programs are specific to a given device / drone / vehicle. Is the Pilot CF also specific to the vehicle, needing a different one for each vehicle? (Presumably, whatever applies to pilot applies to pilot auxiliary programs as well?)


Yes the Pilot CF and auxiliary CF's are just as device specific as their programs counterparts.
JoelHalpern
Thanks for the answers.
A couple of followup questions.
First, in talking about the wealth power, you say:
QUOTE (Sma @ Jun 6 2008, 11:51 AM) *
... And while the Wealth power of Great Form Sprites allows for stuff worth a lot to be delivered to a enterprising Technomancer, it usually comes in a from not easily abused. I.e. a week of holidays in a luxury resort, a truck full of mayonnaise or lifetime membership in a golf club. All things that might be turned to cash at a loss, but give the Technomancer in question a nice chance to roleplay or for the whole tema to hit the casinos Oceans 13 style, while already having someone inside.

While reasonable, I wonder how you got to this interpretation. The rule says:
QUOTE
]b]Wealth[/b]
With the expenditure of a Task, bank accounts increase, catalog orders are made and paid for, and invoices are lost. Over the course of the next week the target's real wealth is increased by 10,000¥ per hit on a System + Charisma test.

which specifically says that the wealth increases by 10,000Y per hit (on a system + charisma test, or about 2/3 the force of the spirit.)

I presume you didn't comment on the uestion (3) about running programs without IC because it has not come up in your game?

And on question (5) about whether treating causes fading? I can't imagine you don't use threading. That is just too useful.

I did think of one further Sprite question. The Inate Form power for sprites says that it can be any form kinown to the technomancer calling up the sprite. Does that include a complex form that the technomancer has threaded up from scratch, or only ones he knows permanently? (It seems, for balance, that it ought to be only permanently known complex forms, but if the sprite is going to work in the same node the technomancer is in, the wording would seem to allow such threaded forms to be used.)

Thank you,
Joel

FrankTrollman
One thing to note: each Technomantic song (tradition) only gets one Greatform power to throw around. If your campaign won't survive characters being able to pick up a couple million a year (much or all of which will go into a Luxury Lifestyle), then just force them to choose a song that gives them a different power.

-Frank
JoelHalpern
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Jun 7 2008, 02:48 AM) *
One thing to note: each Technomantic song (tradition) only gets one Greatform power to throw around. If your campaign won't survive characters being able to pick up a couple million a year (much or all of which will go into a Luxury Lifestyle), then just force them to choose a song that gives them a different power.

-Frank


Thanks Frank. That is an interesting and useful restriction. I had assumed that, like the magic rules, each Sprite type (a tradition having 5) could have a different Greatform power. With only one power, the GM and Technomancer will have to agree on one.

Joel
xsansara
I just stumbled over your house rules while searching for reviews for Unwired and all I can say is that I wished I found this thread a year ago. Good Work.

I actually had the same idea of brain hacking while compiling the house rules for my group, but have never dully fleshed the idea out as you have.

But I would like to make a suggestion from my house rules. I hope you like it.

In our group we found it very frustrating to be expecting a hacking attack (or knowing about one) and not being able to actively do something about it, especially when you are a "clean" computer user, like a scientist or a reporter (yes, we do have characters like that). The action might be like trying to restart Firewall operations if your PAN is attacked or humming Mary had a little lamb, when being brainattacked. Game-mechanics-wise it should be tied to the Computer (that's how we do it) or Electronic Warfare Skill. This makes random Spam attacks more of a nuisance for those people, but not a real thread.

Sorry if something like that has already been mentioned, but haven't read every post in this (long) thread.


RunnerPaul
QUOTE (xsansara @ Jul 3 2008, 01:12 PM) *
But I would like to make a suggestion from my house rules. I hope you like it.


Frank's got a different thread where he's solicititing suggestions for where to go from here with his houserules. You may want to post this there too.
FrankTrollman
QUOTE
In our group we found it very frustrating to be expecting a hacking attack (or knowing about one) and not being able to actively do something about it, especially when you are a "clean" computer user, like a scientist or a reporter (yes, we do have characters like that). The action might be like trying to restart Firewall operations if your PAN is attacked or humming Mary had a little lamb, when being brainattacked. Game-mechanics-wise it should be tied to the Computer (that's how we do it) or Electronic Warfare Skill. This makes random Spam attacks more of a nuisance for those people, but not a real thread.


I've got the idea of Signal Defense, which protects people from signal interference. Since Arsenal came out, I can very easily imagine that some 21st century martial arts would have techniques to rid the nervous system of external electronic influence.

-Frank
Cthulhudreams
Yeah, EW gives you counterspelling. Your other option is to buy a crash program - it works at range connection so you can get your firewall to use it so it can defend you when someone connects to you. As far as I can see anyway.
Sma
Also Terminate Connection usually has a not too bad chance of kicking any intruder out.
xsansara
QUOTE (Sma @ Jul 4 2008, 04:42 AM) *
Also Terminate Connection usually has a not too bad chance of kicking any intruder out.


Oops I missed that, seems like I should have a closer look at the spell, sorry program list smile.gif

Thanks for all the answers. Is there a public play test somewhere to get a feeling for how the rules interact in real situations?
Sma
There is a new writeup in the making that will include examples. Some examples also can be found here.
xsansara
Back with some more feedback, read through the whole thing this time (well up to sprites) smile.gif

* I really like that you got rid of all those extended tests (which I hate). Exception is veracity checking, but that's okay, since its kind of like a race
* Fading seems kind of inconsistent,
1. when compiling or decompiling sprites Fading is increased + 1/2 sprite rating (compared to Mage/Spirit rules)
I assume the +1/2 sprite rating is a house rule and applies to Mages as well, but
2. when registering the hits are not doubled,
making it as cheap as compiling (why should I not do always then?) Typo?
3. Threading does not cause Fading,
how come you removed that? It seems logical to pay some prize for doing something better than normal. Especially, since you can use learned complex forms at will with no Fading, unlike spells.
4. Rend Icon does not cause Fading
Which makes it about as good as Crash (potentially better for starting elves), with no costs. I suggest Charisma/2 (downgradable with less damage)
5. Unravel causes Fading equal to " the number of hits on the highest original instruction set of the device"
This is a very unusual mechanic and would require a lot of bookkeeping, if properly enforced. Making it an attack-like ability against Firewall (+ Pilot? or Armor?) which deletes a random instruction if successful, would be much simpler gameplay, methinks. And is not overpowered compared to the Programs. Also you might consider adding LOS to the range. Back to Fading: using Enemy hits would be a nice tag along the compiling theme or give it a pseudo PR to stay in line with the programs; overall I like the effect and its making Decompiling a useful skill (with Rend Icon)
* I also really liked the "automatic" programs and cf you get, it is really frustrating to be dependant on programs (or worse cfs) for standard actions any decent OS should deliver free-house
* Minor note: You might want to add the role System plays in soaking D Damage in the System description
* Spam areas effecting TMs negatively seems out of flavor. Places like the Tokyo electronic district Akihabara brim with aggressive advertisement, I have some trouble believing that a TM would feel uncomfortable there. Maybe, it should be treated like correctly Aspected, positive Background count and allow bonus dice to Matrix activities, if appropriate.
* I would like to ask for some clarification concerning Forge Credentials, especially: what are the counterrolls (Firewall + Signal Defense or Device Rating for Scanners?); is it only for licences or can I forge a generic SIN for an identity check, if I assume the SIN should not be permanent;
* I am still not clear, when Matrix Stealth checks/re-checks are appropriate. I assume, whenever a target is interacted with in a non-beneficial way (e.g. by an analysis program). But then a Find Mind would trigger a lot of alarm, so maybe that's only appropriate for paranoid Hackers and too much slowing down the game speed. Still, I do not like being Backtracked by a Noob Hacker without the chance to notice it. But then, if he were such a Noob, he couldn't hide from me in the first place and I would notice it automatically. So Analysis on unassuming targets is okay, as long as it didn't see me the first time. Find Mind in a situation with many people in which a Find Mind is common (eg. a stadion) would be shrugged of, while it might blow your cover in a lone hide-and-seek-scenario with a TM.
* Hack an the fly has a weird speed. I usually do not keep track of free actions in an IP when I GM. Free Actions are for stuff that can be multitasked easily or is very fast and thus one, two or three of them that do not logically overlap (like talking twice) are usually okay by me. That aside, as an IT professional I can assure you that programming is neither mulitasked easily nor particularly fast. In fact, you need to concentrate very much, in order to "quick-program" anything with any hope of success. I can however verify that these attempts are better of deleted, even if they worked. I do not see how this would have changed within your paradigm. You still have to visualise very precisely what you want and how that can be achieved methodically, the rest is picked out from your brain, at least that reduces the amount of typos smile.gif The alternative would be to download a "free" program, which is adaquate for the task, but that is explicitly forbidden by your paradigm, as it would involve adjustment to the brain.
* Decrypt/Encrypt smile.gif How about that:
1. High-density transmission can be decrypted in real time, but require some time for adjustment. Roll Logic + Electronic Warfare in an extended roll (variable, 1 IP). The threshold is the original hits from the Encrypt, which may only be rerolled, if the Encrypter constantly and actively reuses Encrypt (Taking the CA (at least) every time the Decrypter succeeds and before he starts reading the transmission). Once the Decrypter wins, he can decrypt everything sent, until the connection is closed.
2. Low-density transmissions can be decrypted once enough data has been accumulated. When the GM decides that enough data is accumulated, it can be Decrypted by using a Complex action against the hits that were scored on the Encrypt. This roll is not repeatable.
3. Data can be Encrypted, similar to the use of a Data Bomb. The base time for Decrypting said data is Encrypt rating x (hits on the Encrypters rolled) / (hits the Decrypter rolled) in hours. The GM may increase the base time up to infinity when dealing with small amounts of data. Note that any data that is read or used by anyone is considered a transmission.
* Master Control: I don't see anyone buying this program as it's use is too situational, yet, it's a very nice way to resolve the problem without too many dice rolls. Why not make it a standard schtick of Hacking, along the lines of Forge Credentials. (That is not supposed to work on Humans, is it? It does have a D. )
* Did I miss anything or is the actual Exploit missing from the Exploit program list? How do I force a connection on a node, without knowing someone that node knows? Taxman? I thought that only gives me data but not a connection.
* Terminate Connection; I guess instead of "The user rolls Logic + Operations... " it should be "The user rolls Logic + Computer " Operations not having a rating and all.
* Registry Dump is a really nice idea, but poses the problem of bookkeeping all hits of all programs. Besides you might want to except Encrypt and Data Bomb or specifically mention that you can use it for that purpose.
* Reset is another one of those... Maybe you have to set a reset point first and only icons, connections and data still on the node are affected.
* Again my congratulations for making TMs really special with their compiling and decompiling cfs without nerfing Hackers too much or vice versa. Consider everything not mentioned as appreciated very much.

I hope you find my criticism constructive, if not, ignore the part you don't like. It was meant as a suggestion or was a mistake due to a misunderstanding on my side.

Sorry to everyone for the wall of text it started out quite innocently as a few paper scribblings wobble.gif


ornot
Whew! Finally read this whole thread. I only found it a week or so ago, and since then I've been busy.

I don't quite get the range thing. Can someone post some kind of summary/list of the ranges, and what they mean. I keep seeing connection, handshake and signal range, but I don't know how they relate to each other.

Re: Brainhacking. Love it.

I would say this; I think connecting an orphan brain from any kind of distance should require some special expensive highly forbidden piece of kit. Personally I'd consider it to be a tech banned by the Corporate Court, at least openly, who I presume want to be seen as a benevolent force, rather than Big Brother complete with Thought Police. I rather like the idea of planes flying over non-tech peoples beaming mind control rays at them, a 2070 version of dropping propaganda leaflets on enemy troops (eg. Aztlan in the Yucatan), providing they can avoid CC oversight.
Cthulhudreams
Okay, basically you missed a range (Matrix) and they breakd won like this

Signal: This means that you are within the 'signal' range of my transmitter, which ranges from 'really close' to '10,000 kms' There is a table in the equipment section that details transmission distances and costs for various signal ratings

Note: Signal usually has the (LOS) tag - which means line of sight. Exactly like a spell, I have to be able to see you Unlike a spell, I can use electronic targeting googles and shit to do that, but I still need to trace a line to you.

Handshake: Handshake range is, I am in Signal range of you, and you are in signal range of me. If both are true we are at 'handshake' range (because we can both send signals to each other'

Connection: When two devices are in 'handshake' range, they can establish a connection with each other.

Matrix: You are both within handshake range of a matrix node.

HentaiZonga
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ Nov 6 2007, 12:56 AM) *
Unfortunately Frank, a radio frequency in the megahertz range or in all of the radio frequency range, have no effect upon the human brain. EEG waveforms are not in the radio frequency range at all. What mean no effect I mean produces any mental effects besides microwaving brain tissues.


Actually, setting up multiple megahertz signals with slightly different frequencies, phase shifts, and points of origin can cause beat frequencies at whatever frequency, amplitude and phase you want at pinpoint-accuracy, if you have enough processing power to figure out how to adjust for all the local interference.
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