Hi. The core book talks about limiting spells when you learn them which require fetishes but it doesnt talk about fetishes anywhere else!!!

#1. How much do they cost??
#2. Do you have to bond them?

In the section on Foci it says you can only use one foci to help with any particular spell.

#3. Can you use a foci and a fetish for the same spell?
#4. Do fetishs have a maximum number that you can have? Do they count towards a foci's max limit of Logic?

Can you make a foci/fetish be a tatoo?? Bond the ink and then get it tatoo'ed into your skin?

How would you guys feel about cosmetic surgeries to insert objects into the body?? The best most vivid example I could think of is how some people get different kind of body studs. Like spikes along their forehead or the top of their heads.

Ok I'll take a crack at this:
1. Costs are listed on Page 340 of SR4. The cost varies by spell type.
2. No, but they have to be attuned to the magician and the Spell. Spells are attuned to a specific fetish when they are learned. (Essentially this only becomes an issue during game play if you lose your fetish(es), There are no complications at chargen.)
3. The section on foci says that "only one focus may add its Force to any single dice pool." So actually you can have a power focus help you cast a spell and then use a spellcasting focus to help resist the drain from that same spell. The foci section mentions nothing about fetishes, so I'd assume you can use both on the same test, especially as you don't really have a choice about the fetish; without it you can't cast the spell.
4. Nope. Fetishes cannot be activated, and aren't foci, so they don't count against the number of bound foci (magic) or active foci (logic).

Tatoos: I really don't think so. Both foci and fetishes must be enchanted (see Street Magic) and I don't think that can be done on ink. It should be noted that the Tatooing Metamagic present in previous editions of SR was very similar to Quickening. In fact, I think you could use Quikening as Tatooing by specifying your quickening materials to be Inks.

Now, as a GM I would be highly opposed to any character implanting their fetishes or foci. Sure it could work, but it removes the primary disadvantage (i.e. game balancing mechanism) of fetishes and to a lesser extent foci (I consider their primary disadvantage to be cost). The GM could easily rule that such an invasive surgery would cost essence loss. The only implantations that do not seem to cause essence loss are of Items/spaces of micro size or less (e.g. RFID tags, tooth compartments). That being said, I think there was one example in one of the novels of a focus in the form of an earing. Which I would probably allow.

Man I Just hate the idea of having a mage that is all tatoo'ed up and them not actually doing anything. Shamans draw and make stuff and play music you know they would decorate their own bodies too.

Oh well, thanx for the reply.

Also if I remember correctly, the newest IE on the block has a focus of some sort wrapped around her thigh bone, so it seems that implanted foci does work.

However, in Fourth by RAW if getting a new face costs Essence then so should wrapping a piece of magical metal around one of your bones. However, personally I've already houseruled that part of AUG away so in my games it's perfectly doable, BUT the downside is that due to the special interactions that has to take place implanted foci costs more and shine in the Mage's Aura.

It takes all the fun that you get when you get kicked out of the banditios or the angels and they want ALL the gang insignia returned. Tattoos included. (Though they will typically accept it if you ink them out, assuming you didn't really piss them off.)

Heh well the first thing that comes to mind about tatoo fetishs and you guys saying there are no disadvantges. What if another mage cast a laser removal spell lol. or pulled a magneto and like sucked the metal/ink out of your body.

Is that quickening stuff in Street magic? I dont have that.

go to page 191 of your core book.

read the brief paragraph under "spellcasting foci"

In the original version of SR4, there is a line on Spellcasting, Summoning, and Binding foci to the effect that dice from the foci can be withheld from the test to help with Drain. This was actually a reference to an SR3 rule, and is noted in the FAQ:

You could withhold dice during Summoning in SR3 without using Foci of any kind. I believe that is the question being answered in the FAQ.


Aaron: I have SR4 v1.3, and it reads ...

I have no problem with a focus (ie a tool to augment ones power) like a power or sustaining or whatever focus bing crafted as a tattoo. It would cost a little bit more, but I really like the flavor of the idea. Obviously a tattoo focus would have some drawbacks like being fairly hard to conceal (I would rule that they would have to be fairly significant in size). And if the focus was active you might become partial dual natured, making you vulnerable to attacks from the astral plane.

I would not allow a tattoo to be used as a fetish (ie a crutch a magician requires to cast a spell). As Ancient History says one of the drawbacks of a fetish is that it can be taken away, potentially robbing you of the power. Obviously this limitation is much harder to apply to a tattoo.

Ok I have more questions!!! Try to forget about what foci can be used when hehehe.

-I cant find anything about casting spells AT Foci/Fetish in order to kill them/disrupt them. Anyone have page references in the core book or can talk about it? If I have an active foci on my character what all can happen to it or me due to the actions of an enemy mage.

-What are some good examples of the forms a fetish can take. If you use fetishes how do you store them on your person? I love the concept of having like a medicine pound either around my neck or a bag tied off on my waste but those seem really easy to steal. Whats the best way to secure them without crossing the line of removing the disadvantage of maybe losing them.

Each spell catagory is tied to a spirit type. So I was thinking I would have bits of animal for beast fetishs, rocks or pebbles for earth fetishs. What would you guys use for air spirit related fetishes? What about fire and water?

Oh I was thinking high tech the other night. Having little sqaure chunks of metal that have had things etched into their surface on a microscopic/nano level. For a mage their would be desgins and for shamans they would be more artistic images.

Any active foci can be attacked in astral space via astral combat or mana spells to disable it. It resists with force (or possibly double force, don't quite remember).

A focus or a fetish can also be attacked in the mundane world, as if it were any other object. The trick is recognizing it as a focus or fetish.

Anyone know a reason why they erratta'd spellcasting foci so that they couldn't be used on drain resistance tests without changing the others? If not then I'm inclined to allow its use for drain resistance (in any games I run). I don't see any reason why it would be unbalancing or illogical or anything along those lines. If you have some idea, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

i would allow spellcasting foci to add to drain resistance simply because power focus is a complete replacement for them otherwise, personally.

Ok I have a very simple question this time.

"Fetishes are...made for a specific catagory of spells."

"When the spell is learned it is attuned to that particular fetish"

Does that mean each spell needs its own fetish or that you can attune multiple spells to the same fetish as long as it is the proper catagory??

Each spell needs its own fetish, each fetish must be of the proper category for the spell it is attuned to.

can't believe nobody made that crack yet . . ever tried to focus on anything else while confronted with your fetish? *g*

Howdy. Back to the tattoo thing.

If you make it a Geas: "Touch tattoo" it would work. Make a tattoo for each spell, then it will amke him want to run around barechested, or only in a vest, needing to touch the tattoos. How would you see them anyway.

If you make it a geas, then it doesn't matter if it's a fetish or focus. It's basically a modified Talisman geas, with the additional caveat that it cannot be taken away.

Right, but he said something like "I don't want them to mean nothing." That's how we did tattoo mages, they took a geas starting to touch them to use. It's like the chanting geas. You can't take it away. But you can cover the tattoo, or bind his hands to keep him from touching them.

the most important difference between foci and fetish?
foci=plural(several)
fetish=singular(one)

Unless, of course, the tattoos are on his hands. That would be a Condition geas (must be holding hands together), which may or may not fly at individual tables; he could be holding a gun between his hands and still fulfill the geas. If you mean you want to restrict the armor a mage can wear while fulfilling a geas, then you may as well make it: "Must be barechested".

You've missed something else here. Spellcasting focus is specific to a single school of magic as well. So even though it's only half the cost, it would only add dice to say combat spells for a combat spell focus. I quote "Each spell focus must be attuned to a specific category of spells", and that applies to all 3 spellcasting, counterspelling, and sustaining foci.

Spirit foci have a similar restriction where they're limited to a single type of spirit.

So I'm also inclined to agree w/ the original poster... w/o the ability to withhold the focus dice. They're BADLY overcosted. There's a reason why power focus, sustaining foci, and some of the other advanced metamagic focus are really the only worthwhile ones. For twice the price, I get the power focus and add the dice to all the casting tests and completely ignore the other 'minor' foci as they're simply not worth the cost generally.

I have no idea what the current state of the errata is since it keeps changing for reasons I can't fathom.

There is no point in Spellcasting Foci unless they can be used on the Drain Resistance test. They are fair value if they can be used in such a manner though. The Errata is weird, and wrong as far as I am concerned.

Frosty's focus was blown up, and it was her thigh bone transformed by her father to hide her from any magicians not as potent or versed in magical lore

So, basically, anyone bar Harlequin. The other IE's could probably poke their heads in with a bit more effort, but they'd have to know it was there. And isn't the Blood Queen's Daughter the newest IE?

Hey quick question about a fetish: What would everyone here say about a Chaos Mage with a fetish in the form of a rune covered Datachip?

I can see the "reason" for the reduced drain is because of the "programs" that were put on to the chip by the Chaos Mage.

A rune covered datachip isn't any different from a rabbit's foot. More power.

Sure why not? Cost and what not would of course remain the same.

Of course!

Also the datachip would be set to read only because ANY change in the structure (an data written to it) would destroy it's ability to be a fetish.

Now would any of you allow that datachip fetish to have data on it before it was changed into fetish.

Sure, why not? A fetish can be anything.

In fact, given that everything is wireless in SR4, your fetishes are probably wireless-enabled to start with, and have unlimited storage memory.

Actually I believe that the SR4 BBB states that once a focus or a fetish it is created it can NOT be changed at *ALL*. If I were running the game and the Chaos Mage used his fetish data chip to record data then I would say that the fetish would be destroyed.

I'm afraid you're wrong. Neither section in the BBB mentions that a focus cannot be cosmetically altered at all, let alone a fetish. If that were the case, a weapon focus that took so much as a chip to the blade would be rendered forever useless.