I don't have the energy right now to do a lot of source-digging, but the obvious counters: first off, that's a historic figure—I'm pretty sure that various canon texts have suggested that even the long-lived, "true" Shadowrunners don't live all that long, especially not by the standard of Fuchi (which has, presumably, records since the Crash—we're talking 20 years until 2049, which is a long ride for even less demanding professions like professional sports players). Secondly, if you interpret that quote as applying to individuals as opposed to hirings, this makes it extremely unlikely that the classification is broad—98% success rate is astounding . An assortment of measures taken by Fuchi are listed as contributing to this rate, but ultimately they can all only serve to motivate Shadowrunners or protect against betrayal. Either the entire passage is a lie, or everyone Fuchi calls a Shadowrunner is good enough to "satisfactorily complete" 49 out of every 50 jobs handed to them. Even chopping off a few for the kinds of runs where failure is success, that's the kind of record you get from seasoned pros, the kind that there are going to be a very small number of.

In short, I'd argue that the quote he provided reinforces my argument very strongly, rather than attacking it.

~J

what about that time i said "i think SR4 might be pretty good"?

Huh?

He's pointing out that more stupid things have been said about Shadowrun. That one was up there, but mfb (and I, back in the early prerelease days) has it beat.

~J

Postscript: should that be "have" or "has"? I usually treat parenthetical sections as separate from the rest of the sentence, but reading that normally sounds very strange—but then if I make it "have", I can't drop the parenthetical comment and still be correct. Argh!

i'm pretty sure 'has' is correct, for the same reason that it would be correct if you had a singular subject and a clause that contained a plural noun. i don't remember what the exact term for that sort of thing is, but an example would be "he, like all of the left-wing nutjobs, has a LAW stored in his home".

i don't necessarily think what Frank said is stupid. The Dude is a perfectly viable character for a certain type of SR game, and there are some people in SR who might call him a shadowunner. i just don't think that everyone, or even the majority, would call him a shadowrunner.

It's not really analogous, though—it's more like "I he, and all of the left-wing nutjobs, has a LAW stored in his home." The clause doesn't draw a comparison, it inserts a second subject into the sentence.

Maybe I'll just go back to Japanese, where I can skip verbs entirely a substantial portion of the time.

~J

i do, for the same reason that i accept superhero costumes in comics.

In my opinion, 'running the shadows' is a job description ... one that is performed by individuals such as (among others) samurai, hackers, and mages. It is only the wannabees with little to no skill and experience that refer to themselves or others as 'shadowrunners'.

I will have to reread some novels, but I strongly believe you to be incorrect.

~J

We were always "security contractors" or some other deniable name that explained the piles of ordinance and security gear....

Of course, because of the media, so called 'normal people' outside of the shadows will refer to almost anyone doing illegal non-organized crime things as a 'shadowrunner'.

I tend to use the Jeff Foxworthy Test:

If you go to runner bars to find employement, and it's not behind the counter or holding a tray, you might be a shadowrunner.

If you refer to your client as "Mr. Johnson" or he insists on it, when you know that's not his real name, you might be a shadowrunner.

If you bring a sword with you to a gunfight, and it's not to be filmed as an action movie sequence, you might be a shadowrunner.

If all of your equipment is second hand, cutting edge, and absolutley illegal, you might be a shadowrunner.

If you live in the slums but recently had some five figure uh, "Elective Surgeury" done, you might be a shadowrunner.

If you live in the slums but at one time earned a Th.D, you might be a shadowrunner.

If the word "Chummer" rolls off your tounge unselfconsciously, you might be a shadowrunner.

for those people who are vaguely successful:

If your clients want something that requires breaking laws to accomplish, insist on talking around this little detail but mention that they have no interest how you accomplish this task - just that it gets done, and want to pay you in a difficult to trace method, you are almost certainly a shadowrunner.

Back when it was considered actually difficult, I had a friend who got paid in small bills to "acquire" some music for a mutual acquaintance. I'd say that test needs to be tightened up a little

(Admittedly it was possible to obtain the music legally, but even with access to stores with good stocks of used discs it wasn't possible to do it at a profit)

~J

Postscript: since I realize that I was relatively vague, I'm talking about the days before Napster became well-known, not a friend who got hired to shoplift.