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Gerzel
I'm trying to compile a list of must-see movies to get the mood right for Shadowrun and the setting. Specifically the corp culture.

Here are a few to start off. In no particular order.

Aliens - A bit higher tech than SR, but just feel that atmosphere. Also if you want to know how a fight with a 6th world supernatural horror (not necessarily one of the Horrors) would go down look no further than the Alien.

Resident Evil - Umbrella Corp, do I need to say more? Though Red Queen is a much more functional AI than any in SR (Hey she was right about containment wasn't she?).

Blade Runner - Perhaps the defining cyberpunk movie. Though I don't know which version is the best.

BubbleGum Crisis - The tech might not exactly fit SR style but the Knight Sabers are defiantly a runner team.

Ghost in the Shell - Another anime/manga series that fits well into the feeling of cyberpunk and SR.

Day Watch - For magic mixed with a modern setting.

I need more.
Ancient History
Ronin.
Mercer
Proof of Life (or "How Movies Aren't Like RPG's".) The first forty-five minutes of the movie would be the first forty-five minutes of the game: reading the backstory, setting up the run, meeting the Johnson, trying to find dice. The next forty-five minutes of the movie would be a five minute Negotiation test. The last fifteen minutes of the movie would be a three-hour combat.

Even if the movie is too slow for your taste, its worth catching the last half an hour for the raid. Very well done, good examples of tactics and planning. I could practically see the bonus dice being allocated.
tisoz
Wow, 3 1/2 months!

QUOTE (Gerzel)
...movies to get the mood right for Shadowrun and the setting. Specifically the corp culture.

Especially that '80s feel:
Gung Ho (1986): a japanese company buys an american auto plant and installs japanese management, production techniques and culture. Or at least tries...
Wall Street: Greed is Good, mergers, acquisitions and liquidations, corporate espionage and insider trading.
Mercer
I think my pick for the best 80's Corp SR-inspirational movie would have to be Rising Sun.

Edit: Add in Robocop to the corp pile.
tisoz
RoboCop is also an example of privatized, underfunded police forces, cyberzombies (hence cyberware, too), and a shadowrunner team led by actor Kurtwood Smith (aka Red Forman.)
Daddy's Little Ninja
There was a film with Wesley Snipes and Sean Connery. I think it was called "Rsiing Sun" about two LA cops investigating a murder at a Japanese corp office in LA. Very much the who SR corp environment.
Telion
johny mneumonic
Tanka
Firefly. Only crossing borders instead of flying through space.
Mercer
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
There was a film with Wesley Snipes and Sean Connery. I think it was called "Rsiing Sun" about two LA cops investigating a murder at a Japanese corp office in LA. Very much the who SR corp environment.

Let's skip the fact that you were a little late to the party, and celebrate that you showed up at all. Having mentioned this very movie, I dug it out of my old pile of VHS tapes and watched it for the first time in probably seven years. Being an avid SR player, this is a movie I saw many times in my youth, and it was interesting to watch it again. I spent a lot of the time thinking, Cops don't really do that, do they?

It has an oddly ambiguous ending for a studio picture. (Spoilers ahead, maybe. I mean, there are spoilers ahead, but the movie is like 17 years old. I have to believe everyone who is going to see it already has.) I remember reading the book but it was a long time ago, and I don't really recall the major differences, other than the ones they're still crawing about on imdb.com. The main thing about the book I remember is it went into a lot more detail on the Japanese corporate structure (or the West's paranoid mindset about Japanese Corporate structure), and that to me was a lot more useful from an SR perspective. The main difference in the book and the movie is they made the killer an American, although from the very first time I saw the film I thought that the Nakamoto Corporation (not to be confused with the Nakatomi Corporation, of Die Hard) was complicit in the plot. And ultimately, figuring out who actually killed the girl hardly seemed to matter, since the case had already been "solved". The thugs that killed the murderer were actually getting revenge for the death of Eddie, who was framed and killed by other people. The other guy mainly responsible for both deaths (who was actually there gloating when Eddie was killed) was just sent back to Japan to "stare out a window" as if this was a fate worse than death, but if he were so corrupted by Western culture it doesn't seem like he'd care. He could just quit his job and come be a "hustlin' business samurai" in America, go to work for DOW or somebody who would have loved to have a Japanese guy.

It also struck me as weird how the senator shot himself, when his only crime was nailing the girl, thinking he killed her, and being a douchebag. And the cops faxed him the pictures. If I faxed a guy pictures that caused him to kill himself, I'd feel bad about it is what I'm saying, even if he was a douchbag.

Tamara Tunie was in it, briefly. She's now the medical examiner on Law & Order: SVU. Her only spoken lines are over the phone, so you see her in a couple of shots and you hear her in another scene, but you never see her speak. I wonder if she gets paid differently than that, since she's basically an extra in one scene and voice part in another. Sam Lloyd was also in it as one of the MicroCon doofi; he's now Ted on Scrubs, a show I kinda like and character I always find amusing. He was bald, even back then. Really doesn't look that much different. Actually, considering the movie was made 15 years ago, you could reshoot it today and most of the actors would look exactly the same. There's probably not too many movies you could say that about. I had forgotten Steve Bushemi was in it, and while he was noticeably younger he's always been a weird-looking cat. (There's probably one cast member that just exploded. Its that way with the cast of Buck Rogers, Erin Grey still looks fantastic and Gil Gerard looks like he has been stung repeatedly by something he is really allergic too, but I digress.)

The two girls from the sushi-eating, saki-nipple-dipping scene are an interesting footnote; Saki Nipple was a Playboy model for whom Rising Sun is her only acting credit (aside from about 30 Playbody videos), and Naked Sushi was a body double who doubled for everybody from Julia Roberts (in Pretty Woman) to Barbara Streisand (in Prince of Tides). The guy that played Meat in Porky's was in it just long enough for Sean Connery to hit him in the throat, which is a mark of success I suppose. (He should get together with that guy Sean Connery beats up with his thumb in the Presidio, and they could do a tv show together or something.) This was also Meat's last movie role. (I wonder if him and Saki Nipple ran off together. I'd like to think so. But I sense I am losing you.) The guy that Sean Connery beats up with his thumb in the Presido made movies until 2001, which I guess proves the rule that the less of his body Sean Connery touches you with, the longer you will make it in Show Business. I think Jack Warner had a saying to that effect. People who Sean Connery didn't touch at all are still working today.

Well, I've drifted far afield of my original point which was, if I recall correctly, that Rising Sun hasn't aged great. The police work comes off as pretty shoddy, although the glimpses of 80's corporate culture was interesting. Worth checking out for that. And I'm always happy to see Mako getting work. That is the most badass name in Hollywood. You play Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon you can get anywhere with that guy. Did a lot of tv in the 60's. He also died last year, which is very sad. I think my favorite credit of his from imdb.com would have to be Super Monkey Team Hyperforce Go! He was also really good as Aku in Samurai Jack.
Wounded Ronin
I agree that Mako is the most under-rated actor ever.
PBTHHHHT
he was also the voice of Iroh in Avatar the Last Airbender for the first two seasons. It's a shame that he passed away, they did a good tribute to him in one episode that had a segment that only focused on his character.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Tanka)
Firefly.  Only crossing borders instead of flying through space.

Especially the episode "Ariel". It had everything except a doublecrossing Johnson.

But made up for it with a
[ Spoiler ]
Sahandrian
The big ones in our group have always been Boondock Saints, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Robocop, and Ronin.

A newer member is pushing for Ocean's 11 and it's sequels, though.

And we used to include the first Matrix on the list, but one player ruined that for everyone.
kzt
How did they ruin it?
Tanka
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
QUOTE (Tanka)
Firefly.  Only crossing borders instead of flying through space.

Especially the episode "Ariel". It had everything except a doublecrossing Johnson.

But made up for it with a
[ Spoiler ]

I liked

[ Spoiler ]


wink.gif
hyzmarca
I'm going to add Over There to the list. It isn't cyberpunk, but it certainly is dystopian. It is the first scripted television series to take place in the current conflict in Iraq and it does a good job of showing just how messed up war is.
shadowfire
strange days, hellboy, total recall, the running man, demolition man, solarbabies, fortress, volcano high (the non- mtv version), distract B13, smoking aces
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Tanka)
[QUOTE=ShadowDragon8685,Dec 25 2007, 03:46 AM] [QUOTE=Tanka]Firefly. Only crossing borders instead of flying through space.[/QUOTE]
Especially the episode "Ariel". It had everything except a doublecrossing Johnson.

But made up for it with a
[ Spoiler ]


wink.gif

Yeah, as I understand it, they have
[ Spoiler ]
Sahandrian
QUOTE (kzt)
How did they ruin it?

Every character he made was an attempt to copy Neo, he would be a munchkin and outright cheater to pull it off, and generally tried to pull the entire campaign into being his own vision of a Matrix fangame.

Eventually he did run his own game and pretty much used the Shadowrun rules to run The Matrix. Except he made everyone about a 10th initiation adept so they could be like Neo.

So in general, he was an obsessive fanboy and wanted all of us to join him in obsessive fandom, whether we liked the movie that much or not.
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (Mercer)
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja)
There was a film with Wesley Snipes and Sean Connery. I think it was called "Rsiing Sun" about two LA cops investigating a murder at a Japanese corp office in LA. Very much the who SR corp environment.

Having mentioned this very movie, I dug it out of my old pile of VHS tapes and watched it for the first time in probably seven years. Being an avid SR player, this is a movie I saw many times in my youth, and it was interesting to watch it again. I spent a lot of the time thinking, Cops don't really do that, do they?

It has an oddly ambiguous ending for a studio picture. .



It's been years since I saw this flick but I think the point was that the Japanese guy had become corrupted and was 'western' and the white guy who took the fall was really acting like a Japanese of old, in that he died to cover his master.

and the old, Japanese guy, who really was ultimately responsible just walked away because one of his followers died for the sin. Since someone took the fall, all the rest of the 'sin' was taken with him. I could be wrong, it's been a LONG time since I saw it but that was what I carried away from it, that it was less a crime drama than a look at Japanese corp culture.

Since no one's brought it up. I'll add the first National Treasure- heck Nick Cage and his decker friend steal the Declaration of independence ahead of sean Bean and his thugs in what is clearly a shadowrun?
martindv
Ugh. Rising Sun was a horrible book. The movie version was better, if not a little for the fact that it ratched the Japanophobia WAY down (Crichton is just the most vile kind of Chicken Little, except when it comes to climate change. Then, people claiming it exists are terrorists).

Firefly. Man, it just screams D&D party. Must be why so many gamers love it.

I really like Way of the Gun for several reasons. Most of which, if you've seen in, are self-evident.

I've had runs go down like the end of Bad Boys II, but I don't know if I'd recommend it.


Oh, corp culture. I should have read the OP.

My two favorite examples: Glengarry, Glenross (anyone who doesn't like that movie is insane) and Swimming With Sharks. The Producers has a good sense of corporate life before the accountant quits (btw, rent the original. I almost walked out of the one with Lane and Broderick).

The Aviator is what I think of when I picture Damien Knight. Especially since it's just before the collecting piss in jars stage of Hughes' life.

The Corporation is a great documentary... to make you hate corps. It goes into detail about how corporations are clinically psychopathic.

There's always The Office, too.

BTW, The Unit is a great show. It has to be. It was created by David Mamet, Shawn Ryan (creator of The Shield) and one of the original members of Delta. Definitely good inspiration for clever runners.
Snow_Fox
No one's brought it up but it was on TV yesterday- Clint eastwood's "Firefox." A run to steal an experimental jet.

Or for a real oldie Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton Where Eagles Dare famous for the break into the castle riding on a gondola's roof, but the movie is a data steal.

No spoilers here but seriously, if you haven't seen it, rent it and watch it late at night when you won't be disturbed. The film's climax is such a 'what the flock is going on?" dominated by Burton, that you forget Clint Eastwood is in the room
Jeremiah Legacy
As bizarre as it may sound, Shrek the Third.

Think about it: Shrek as the leader, Puss as the dueling sammie, Donkey with his connections, and Artie as the string-pulling face. Stretch it out even further, a kingdom coup, shifting alliances, and ...

Don't read this unless you have seen the movie or not going to
[ Spoiler ]


Snow_Fox
silly.gif
Jeremiah's having a little lie down now.
Enigma
The Unit I agree, is superb. I am a Michael Creighton fan so I disagree that Rising Sun is a bad book, but it is certainly a bit dated.

Speaking of things like The Unit (which everyone must see for, at the very least, non-shadowrunner shadowrun games), a fantastic movie is Spartan. It was written by the same guy who writes the script for the Unit, David Mamet. Some may think this is not a good thing, but try the movie anyway. Works well as a shadowrun game as well, with the twist half way through and a good ending.
Mercer
Spartan is a good flick. The first half hour moves like gangbusters, in a way, the rest of the film can't keep up.

Mamet had a heist film a few years before, called Heist if I recall, that was pretty good. I saw it with some friends who thought it was too slow (it came out about the same time as the Robert DeNiro flick that was pretty similar), but it had a great cast (Sam Rockwell, Delroy Lindo, Gene Hackman, Ricky Jay) and I liked it a lot. (Danny DeVito was good too.)

The Untouchables was good too. Mamet's done a lot of good work. The Spanish Prisoner.

Speaking of Kevin Costner (sort of, anyway), I caught a snippet of an old movie of his with Anthony Quinn and Madeline Stowe, called Revenge. That's a grim, quasi-western that had its moments.
martindv
QUOTE (Enigma)
The Unit I agree, is superb.  I am a Michael Creighton fan so I disagree that Rising Sun is a bad book, but it is certainly a bit dated. 

Speaking of things like The Unit (which everyone must see for, at the very least, non-shadowrunner shadowrun games), a fantastic movie is Spartan.  It was written by the same guy who writes the script for the Unit, David Mamet.  Some may think this is not a good thing, but try the movie anyway.  Works well as a shadowrun game as well, with the twist half way through and a good ending.

Actually, he doesn't write that many of the show's scripts. Eric Haney seems to have gotten more writing credits in the last two seasons.

That said, virtually everything he does is excellent. This partly explains why he is such an arrogant dick. Spartan is probably the best example of his employment of various devices common to his work, especially foreshadowing, plot twists and an absolute bare amount of exposition. He did an interview with Charlie Rose, and another which I could swear is on The Unit page at CBS.com where he is discussing how he came up with the idea. He had been writing or directing or both for The Shield, which is where he met Shawn Ryan. At some point, he read Haney's book--which is a great read, btw--and worked with Haney on Spartan. Honestly, Val Kilmer's character is a stand-in for Haney. Then the three ended up creating The Unit. The Unit, btw, has employed several plots and their skills and MOs are still being taken from or based on Haney's book, especially the training scenes.

[ Spoiler ]


BTW, speaking of SR films I know a lot of people tend to mention Ronin. David Mamet did an extensive uncredited (well, under a pseudonym) rewrite of the script (you can easily tell what he added).

I think it's easy to suggest almost any film or project by Michael Mann or, while I personally don't like many of his movies, William Friedkin. Mostly it's because they've done a ton of the research for you in terms of accuracy in the situations in which their films take place. It's useful to note that you get a lot out of the director's commentaries for when they note what gets changed (like Friedkin having to slow the end knife fight way down for drama's sake).
hyzmarca
Dead Man starring Johnny Depp.

He's an accountant who is moving to the small industrial town of Machine for a new job only to find that his confirmation letter arrived too late and he's already been replaced. He meets an Ex-hooker who is trying to sell paper flowers in front of a saloon but instead ends up being accosted. Long story short - they have sex, her ex-boyfriend is crazy, and he ends up shot and on the run for a double murder that he did not commit.
He's rescued by a Native American who believes that he is the reincarnation of 18th Century poet William Blake and a great "killer of White Men". Depp's character, who has no idea who William Blake is, takes to the role that his companion gives him. "That weapon will replace your tongue; you will learn to speak through it; and your poetry will now be written in blood", his companion tells him. He does elevate killing to an artform as he treks toward the Pacific ocean.

And it's a Western.
Fortune
I remember that one. Very strange movie.
mattness pl
Damn, another movie topic.

Admins / mods - please, wake up.
Merge all movie threats and pin it at the top of board...
Same with Shadowrun like music.
TIA
Fortune
QUOTE (mattness pl @ Jan 4 2008, 09:08 PM)
Admins / mods - please, wake up.
Merge all movie threats and pin it at the top of board...
Same with Shadowrun like music.

Or not! ohplease.gif

New threads and new members could possibly mean a fresh angle or new outlook on things. I don't see how it hurts to let people make a thread about movies or music every once in a while. After all, if a thread really bothers you, you don't really have to click the link, do you?
mattness pl
What is wrong in keeping all movie related posts in one topic?
I don't suggest to delete it, or close it - just to merge topics on partucalar object in one place (if movies and music subject are so popular why not pin it on top of this board)?
QUOTE
New threads and new members could possibly mean a fresh angle

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as i know, some funny man, erm regular forum user always hijack and discussion goes OT.
Or it's end as a flame. (I do not want neither of this - we can continue via PM)

Another movie/music threat on dumpshock is similiar to the Memento character - but we are not goldfishes that forgets what happened 3 seconds ago.

QUOTE
I don't see how it hurts to let people make a thread about movies or music every once in a while.

I give example:

I joined the discussion on one of previous movie topic. Why? I don't know all the good SR related movies, and I hoped that in next posts someone will mention something worth watching. Well, topic is probably dead right now - and I wont be informed about one of dumpshockers opinion about Gene Generation - why? "No gravedigging" (good movies are not newspapers - they are not publish daily) rule and "we allow to clone topic" rule.
Great.
So maybe RSS to know what's new on DS board (maybe I'll be lucky and this exemplary Gene Generation post will appear in my reader)?
Yeah, right - Google Reader can't find Feeds matching ""forums.dumpshock.com/"" frown.gif

And movies are just example.
Fortune
QUOTE (mattness pl)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as i know, some funny man, erm regular forum user always hijack and discussion goes OT.
Or it's end as a flame. (I do not want neither of this - we can continue via PM)

I really like when people take a shot a someone and then continue on by saying they don't want flaming, and are willing to continue discussion via PM.

Have a nice day.
mattness pl
Sorry, movies fans.
I wanted to sent this as PM, but don't know how.
QUOTE
I really like when people take a shot a someone and then continue on by saying they don't want flaming


English isn't my first language - maybe something was lost in translation.
I didn't want to be offensive.
I was just honest.

Maybe only I have problem with spreaded data on DS forum.
I just asked a question "can that be organized in other way and if not why - not enough people to moderate" or "it's cool right now" and all I just expected an answer. But, well, I'm just foreign Shadowrun fan. And as a fan I care about Dumpshock. And fellow dumpshockers smile.gif

I didn't want to take a "shot at you", Fortune, or neither of DS team.
I just wrote down how it look from my point of view. If you felt touched, well... I really wanted.
Maybe in English my previous post is impolite - maybe I should use somewhere "please, sorry" or "I don't want to be rude, impolite" but after retranslation it doesn't sound offensive. If it is - I'm sorry.
Now I just shut my big polish mouth (EOT).

Sorry for OT
Fortune
There are lots of topics related to Shadowrun that arise again and again on Dumpshock. If we made each recurring topic a Sticky, then the whole front page would be full of them alone. If we don't, then where do we draw the line on Stickies?

Each time a topic comes up, there are usually some different participants involved, and sometimes even different ways of looking at things, even after years of discussing the same subject over and over.

I don't see why it is so offensive to you that there is a new discussion of an old topic. If you haven't had a chance to receive an answer to a previous question on the subject (which is the impression I got from your previous post), then this would be another chance for you to gain satisfaction in that area, which I would think is a good thing, and not something to complain about.

I really think Sticky threads are unnecessary, and even undesirable, except possibly in the case of Admin-type threads.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Fortune)
I really think Sticky threads are unnecessary, and even undesirable, except possibly in the case of Admin-type threads.

...and Squinky's art thread as he has done a lot of work on Missions. grinbig.gif

[/Derail]
tisoz
I'll admit I am one of thos who get tired of seeing a movie thread every month. Every 3 or 4 months at the most seems plenty. I do think Movie threads should be started at least once or twice a year as there are constantly new movies being released, usually in 2 seasons - summer and holiday.

In addition to new movies that relate to Shadowrun, I like hearing about obscure gems. I usually try to track them down through my public library system. Believe it or not, Boondock Saints fits this category. As I listened to a commentary track, I learned the movie was supposed to open about the same time as the Columbine HS shooting and got yanked, and almost buried and forgotten.

Maybe someone will take some initiative and compile an alphabetized list of all past movies (and comments) from previous threads, then when a new Movie thread opens, instead of just posting past links, they could post the actual past movies and comments. A list like this that could be added to would be a nice resource.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (tisoz)
then when a new Movie thread opens, instead of just posting past links, they could post the actual past movies and comments.

but I like the feeling of l33tness when I one up the newbies by posting the old links of Shadowrun movies! wink.gif

Actually a list of of everything mentioned to date with a comments sounds good. hmmm...
hyzmarca
I'm going to throw El Topo into the bag.

El Topo begins with the titular character, a badass Man in Black, riding through the desert on a horse with his seven-year-old son who is naked (which is how we can tell that the kid is a boy). El Topo orders his son to bury his favorite toy and a picture of his mother. Eventually, they come to a town whose inhabitants have been slaughtered by bandits. A lone survivor is badly injured and begs for death. El Topo gives his gun to his son who puts the man out of his misery. Long story short, he leaves his son at a monastery and runs off into the desert with a woman who convinces him to kill the Four Masters of the Gun. He learns Hindu and Buddhist philosophy from the first three before killing them by cheating while the fourth denies him victory through suicide. He's then shot be his female companions and rescued by deformed cave-dwellers to whom he becomes a Christ-like messiah.
Snow_Fox
More than movies, books can be good too, not just sci fi cyber punk. I mean if we trot out Do Androids Dream of Electronic Sheep or We Can Remember it for You Wholesale they'll see it coming but a lot of the pulp detective stories provide great plots, lots of twists turn and back stabs.

The Big Sleep or Maltese Falcon are too obvious but the other works about Sam Spade or Philo Vance or even Robert Parker's Spenser are good sources.
Eugene
Another author who's really got great caper-style books is Donald Westlake. He also writes under the pseudonym Richard Stark. If you've ever seen Mel Gibson's "Payback", it's based on one of his Stark books.
martindv
The Director's Cut is infinitely better than the theatrical version.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
The Big Sleep or Maltese Falcon are too obvious but the other works about Sam Spade or Philo Vance or even Robert Parker's Spenser are good sources.

...incorporated this style into my last campaign. Kinda threw most of the players off though as it requires far more legwork than action. Also, Magic tends to kill a lot of the mystery and intrigue when one can get together with a couple other mages and do a ritual locate or send a watcher/spirit off on an astral search.

Personally though, I still like the feel & hope to give it a go again sometime.
Mercer
And I think the Maltese Falcon is the classic MacGuffin style adventure.

As far as Hammet goes, Red Harvest is tough to beat considering Kurosawa stole (or "borrowed") the plot for Yo-jimbo, from which Sergio Leone stole (or "borrowed") the plot for A Fistful of Dollars; Last Man Standing returned the plot to its bootlegger, gangland roots but gave Kurosawa the "Story By" credit, and the Coen Brothers Miller's Crossing was a much more faithful adaptation, but didn't credit any of the source material. (I guess we call that a homage.)
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
The Big Sleep or Maltese Falcon are too obvious but the other works about Sam Spade or Philo Vance or even Robert Parker's Spenser are good sources.

...incorporated this style into my last campaign. Kinda threw most of the players off though as it requires far more legwork than action. Also, Magic tends to kill a lot of the mystery and intrigue when one can get together with a couple other mages and do a ritual locate or send a watcher/spirit off on an astral search.

Personally though, I still like the feel & hope to give it a go again sometime.

A lot of those 1930's pulp detective stories get around that with dead bodies. For example sure a ritual turns up the location of the Maltese Falcon. But if you remember the film starts with Spade's partner being murdered. Just knowing where the object is doesn't clear out the field of competition.

Other stories for example have the detective showing up at a site and finding the contact dead.

The Thin Man starts as a missing person but
[ Spoiler ]
but it is complicated by the number of people lying and the fact the missing man's ex-wife keeps inventing stories on other people to try and set then up.(OK putting a spoiler in about a 70 year old novel but it's good.)

More recently in Spenser novels, In Hugger Mugger he's hired to protect a race horse, but the real crime is no one is going for the race horse, but it is a set up to murder the horse's owner.

In Bad Business he is hired to get proof infidelity on the part of a corp exec, but the exec is murdered to prevent him from revealing that the company is seriously insolvent.(It was En-Ron with blood shed and set in Boston.)

In Hundred Dollar Baby he is hired to protect a brothel from mafia moving in on it, but when you cut through the drek it seems the Madame is in bed with the mafia and is actually trying to double cross her investors AND the mafia is planning on double crossing the Madame. This stuff can be a bitch to juggle but if done well, and I have seen it done well, it has all the double crossing back biting any SR runner could want.

Yes there's more leg work in these but it gives more room for role playing and character development, with a goodly number of thugs sprinkled about the
martindv
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
Also, Magic tends to kill a lot of the mystery and intrigue when one can get together with a couple other mages and do a ritual locate or send a watcher/spirit off on an astral search.

Only if magic works one-way, which it doesn't. And in a SR game if it did then something is grossly out of whack.
kzt
Your mage isn't part of an initiation group that will offer assistance? Why not?
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Jan 7 2008, 01:39 PM)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
The Big Sleep or Maltese Falcon are too obvious but the other works about Sam Spade or Philo Vance or even Robert Parker's Spenser are good sources.

...incorporated this style into my last campaign. Kinda threw most of the players off though as it requires far more legwork than action. Also, Magic tends to kill a lot of the mystery and intrigue when one can get together with a couple other mages and do a ritual locate or send a watcher/spirit off on an astral search.

Personally though, I still like the feel & hope to give it a go again sometime.

A lot of those 1930's pulp detective stories get around that with dead bodies. For example sure a ritual turns up the location of the Maltese Falcon. But if you remember the film starts with Spade's partner being murdered. Just knowing where the object is doesn't clear out the field of competition.

Other stories for example have the detective showing up at a site and finding the contact dead.

The Thin Man starts as a missing person but
[ Spoiler ]
but it is complicated by the number of people lying and the fact the missing man's ex-wife keeps inventing stories on other people to try and set then up.(OK putting a spoiler in about a 70 year old novel but it's good.)

More recently in Spenser novels, In Hugger Mugger he's hired to protect a race horse, but the real crime is no one is going for the race horse, but it is a set up to murder the horse's owner.

In Bad Business he is hired to get proof infidelity on the part of a corp exec, but the exec is murdered to prevent him from revealing that the company is seriously insolvent.(It was En-Ron with blood shed and set in Boston.)

In Hundred Dollar Baby he is hired to protect a brothel from mafia moving in on it, but when you cut through the drek it seems the Madame is in bed with the mafia and is actually trying to double cross her investors AND the mafia is planning on double crossing the Madame. This stuff can be a bitch to juggle but if done well, and I have seen it done well, it has all the double crossing back biting any SR runner could want.

Yes there's more leg work in these but it gives more room for role playing and character development, with a goodly number of thugs sprinkled about the

...I did quite a bit of that, and the players seemed a bit frustrated as they felt they were hitting dead ends (pun somewhat intended). Of course I couldn't give much more when perception tests were missed. Also this is the kind of thing better to spring on a group that has played for a while and developed their characters some already. The other failing was that I was still using 3rd ed as the plotline didn't fit with the post crash timeline and there wasn't enough source material to go on yet (really didn't feel like writing a bunch of gear and vehicle stuff up from scratch)

I'm currently planning to convert everything to the 4th ed ruleset, a bit of an undertaking, but with Augmented out and Arsenal coming soon (hopefully) now I feel it could work. It would still be set in 2062. Though I'm still not keen on how magic in 4th ed. tends to seem even more powerful (particularly against mundanes), and the rules about wards vs. ritual search/targeting. Kind of kills one of the main plot elements of the campaign.
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