So there have been a few things about SR4 that continue to elude me, and I figured I might as well ask here.

Augmented Reality. I get the concept, I get the idea. I'm just not sure how you're supposed to interact with it (atleast on various levels).

The lowest form of interaction seems to be using your commlink and a pair of glasses (or contacts, or goggles, or whatever) with an image link, and a pair of headphones. The data is sent from the commlink to the image link and the headphones, and any manipulation done is by typing on the commlink, or using its controls or touchscreen. This allows you to close any spam advertising popping up, allows you to select which window you're viewing, etc.

The next level of interaction is mostly cyberware. Instead of glasses and headphones, you're utilizing cybereyes and ears, and potentially things like the taste booster and the olfactory booster. Controlling the AR has changed slightly. Now you're using AR gloves to manipulate windows, icons etc.

Now starts the questions...what's the next level beyond AR gloves? It can't be that everyone is walking around town like a mime. There has to be someway to interact with the AR without using AR gloves, so what exactly is it? Does it require an implanted commlink, which is theoretically DNI? Or how about a datajack...though can you connect via wireless to the datajack (which seems like then you wouldn't need the external port for the datajack).

The next question is...can you skip all the cyberware and what not by using a simrig/sim module? Can the simrig/module project the AR enhancements into your mind/senses as a limited form of simsense, or is it always an overwhelming your normal senses?

Trodes, from what I understand, allow you to experience simsense. Basically You download the simsense to your commlink, which filters it through the sim module, which sends it to the trode rig.

But that means that you're using simsense, in a simulated world, which means your body is slumped over somewhere. You aren't walking around with it going.

Tags I understand. Basically its like a long range barcode scanner and today's pulse cards that you just wave at the credit card machine. You pick up an item, the scanner reads the tag, deducts the amount from your credit limit, etc.

That doesn't help you if two calls pop up at the same time. How do you answer them, or choose which to answer if your hands are full, thus limiting the use of AR gloves and physically manipulating the touch screen/scrollbar/wheel on the commlink?

In AR you can use a neural interface (trodes/jacks) to provide the input, replacing the keyboard/mouse/AR gloves. Glasses/earbuds/cyber are the display media. This essentially lets you use the "mental command" ability to turn external devices on/off the way you can cyberware.

Switching to full VR bypasses the need for audio/video devices but also engages the RAS interrupts, turning you into a slumped over zombie.

Just as a reminder, AR gives a bonus to driving tests but VR reduces the threshold successes.

Augmented Reality as I understand it:

You can access AR with a commlink and either trodes or a datajack. If using trodes, you will need AR gloves for interface purposes. If using a datajack, this is a direct neural interface (no need for typing, no AR gloves). You will need AR glasses or cybereyes to visualize the AR landscape and headphones/earbuds/cyberears for any audio purposes.

Well, one person says that Trodes can be used for input, another says that you can use trodes inplace of image links and sound links.

Glad I'm not the only one apparently confused.

Where does it say anything about trodes being able to be used for anything other than full simsense?

I mean, I would like it if you could throw on a trode rig and have the benefits of AR without having to bother with iimage links, or glasses that could be easily knocked askew, etc, but I'm just not seeing it in the rules.

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The way I rule in my group, trodes cover the "input vector" of AR without going full VR. (What would be the point in going full sensory experience for a tag, anyway?) You still need an image link of some variety.

This subject has already been discussed thoroughly and extensively... So if you run a search you should get some useful information about it.

As a "preview", I can tell you that even when the rules on this topic are sometimes obscure (or contradictory) some sort of general consensus of how it all works does exist.

Sigh, you made me fire up acrobat reader again:

Also on page 209

See what happens when you stay out of the loop for a bit Mael... the kids and their damn technology get way ahead of you.

Yeah, the easiest way to do things in a secure method is via trode or datajack (since they're not wireless in most cases). AR acts as a sensory overlay at that level, where as VR becomes a replacement to your senses. If you want to see some real world versions of how this might work, look up the Furture Warrior (or Future Force Warrior), a good look at how the military is trying to use these technologies at the fundamental level.

In my game a Trode Net has the same exact function as a Datajack, except the Datajack can store information in it.

Since trodes let you use VR with the right equipment it would be logical to think they must have some form of output. Then again logic is a slippery slope around here, still it makes sort of sense.

Got to admit I really like the way AR is being treated, especially in Arsenal. Having AR info provided on a chip is a really interesting twist I hadn't considered, especially when it provides route information and later an entire virtual weapons display.

AR in a chip. Hmm...Deus Ex or Deus Ex: Invisible War. Internal commlink w/sim module, various augmentations. AR-datacubes, books, security terminals. RFId tagged items that display in your HUD when you focus on them from a short distance. Smartlink displays ammo count in corner of vision, crosshair where gun is aimed, friend or foe when centered on target [teammates recognized by battletac]. Just an idea.

many a FPS can be used as an example for AR, but the deus ex series is indeed the most fitting example.

Right, the merging of the forums got this kicked back to the 4th page, far enough back that I almost forgot about it.

I did notice something interesting. Even the premade characters in SR4 seem to rely heavily upon the AR gloves. Almost all the characters have them, even the Hacker and the Smuggler that have implanted commlinks and datajacks. Only one or two don't have AR gloves, and one is the Combat Mage with a trode rig, so that perhaps is an answer on if you can use trode rigs as output.

A somewhat related question...datajacks in the 6th world seem to be completely obsolete. Just about anything you can do with them you can do with a commlink, sim module and trode rig, for about 350 nuyen cheaper, and no essence. The only thing I can see that you can do with a datajack is connect two people together via a fiber optic cable, or to use a cable to physically jack into a location where there's no wireless, or heavy jamming, something a typical wageslave wouldn't care about. Is it possible that the Datajack is slowly going the way of the Dodo?

Compared to what it did back in SR2.... Yes, definitly.

So far it is pretty useful - access to knowsofts, removing the need for a trode net, option of wired connections... pretty cheap for that.

And it can have wireless connection too.

As for the archetypes, they do have AR gloves... they also have a lot of problems and bad choices (the weapon specialist being the worst: a totally useless walking armory) so I don't consider them as reliable.

I'm pretty sure AR gloves, commlink, etc are probably what a large percentage of the population are using, especially the younger crowd.

Datajacks have a couple of things going for it though:

-They've been around forever so all kinds of things are designed to connect directly to them.
-They're secure. Nobody is going to hack or jam your smartlink if it's connected directly to your brain.
-They don't fall off, you can't leave them behind. This is more of an RP thing but I think it'd be annoying to tug on a pair of gloves or slip on a trode net everytime i want to go out. I get pissed off enough trying to keep track of my cellphone.
-This is just me and non cannon but... I think the datajack is probably still the best way to get DNI input/output. This is again an RP guideline rather than something from the rules.
-AR gloves probably get annoying to use for an extend period of time. Waving your arms around in the air to input direction is a really crappy way to do work. I've used touch screen computers before and leaves me begging for a mouse after awhile. Your average person probably still thinks it's easier to sit at a table and jack directly to their computer (with some sort of blue tooth wi-fi thing)


I think overall the only reason people would continue to get datajacks is because it's cheap, convenient, and there is a lot of support out there for it. In general though, I'd suspect datajacks are well on their way to being a bit of a relic. It probably takes a particular kind of person to want to have a chunk of metal in their head, but that kind of person probably still jumps for the chance to score a 500 nuyen datajack (and probably whines about how much it used to cost back in the day).

Easy to get confused with so many references directing you at glasses,earbuds and ar gloves/touchlink way of using AR. But with the "new and improved" connectivity of trodes they seem obsolete. Around our table we've allowed trodes to be used as control device. Our real problems come when someone wants to Hack from AR

Edit: One thing I did notice when looked back over archtypes is that trodes,datajack etc require sim module modified commlink. Without one the eye,ear, and touch AR gear would be needed. Thats making more sense to me now.

The question is: who wouldn't have a sim module? The cyberware version is identicle stat and costwise to the old datajacks - which half the population was supposed to have installed back in 2050...

using glasses and gloves over simsense cant make you stuck online like what happened to people during crash 2.0? just guessing

If you want some cool ideas of how this AR thing might work, you might want to try reading Rainbows End, a novel by Vernor Vinge which uses it as its central technology. The anime "Coil: A Circle of Children" also features AR, and can provide some cool visuals even if it doesn't worry as much about realism.

Back to Shadowrun, I personally think keeping track of earbuds and gloves is a little too finicky. I would either give all commlinks a sim module for free, and allow full input/output through trodes, or say the most common AR interface works like in Rainbows End: all your clothes are motion-sensitive, and you can control your commlink through special body language. Of these two options, I prefer the first, since the only reason they use body language in Rainbows End is that neural interface doesn't exist in that setting.

How does augmented reality impact a setting? Well, imagine your typical ultra-busy cyberpunk street. It's packed with people, and has so many neon advertisements you can't see the sky. With AR, all the advertisements and a good portion of the people are gone once you remove your glasses. If two blocks down a couple starts having a loud public argument on the sidewalk, pretty soon they'll be surrounded by tiny little icons representiing curious bystanders watching the fight through the many public cameras which festoon the street, as an integral part of its mesh network.

AR can help you even if you're not connected to a network. Your commlink probably has a face recognition program that goes to work on whatever face you focus on, bringing up a locally stored profile as soon as it finds a match. Now you'll never forget the name of that distant relative again!

Every piece of tech probably stores its own manual, which you can access through AR for repairs and maintenance. There are probably entire factories who employ unskilled laborers and direct their actions through AR programs (it's cheaper than buying million nuyen robots!).

Remember all those video games that helpfully fill your viewpoint with health and ammo indicators, as well as crosshairs to help you aim and a little map on the upper right corner, filled with red dots indicating enemies? It's possible in Shadowrun, with the proper AR setup.

Something that you don't see in video games but probably have in SR is that the AR overlay adapts itself so as not to hinder the view of the user. For example, the windows won't be displayed on the faces of the people you're talking to so as not to break the contact.

As I read it in the BBB, a datajack just like any other cyberware device has it's own signal rating 0 wireless antenna so in my games it's still a very common accessory even in the wireless age.
You have your commlink somewhere in your pocket and your datajack subscribed to it. The commlink processes the AR environment, pumps it through the sim module which sends it to the datajack. Voilà, full AR with no wires, no silly hairnets, no gloves. I then usually fit the datajack and commlink on my characters with skinlink for more secure PAN-wide interaction.

But then I also introduced a Thought-2-Speech interface which let's you use a commlink to voice chat with others without using any kind of microphone. It ain't quite realistic but it's cool and if it doesn't break suspension of disbelief in Ghost in the Shell then it won't in my games

Trodenets can create ASIST for simsense, but you'll need a simrig. So it would go something like this:

Matrix -- Comlink -- Simrig -- Trodenet -- Sweet Grey Matter.

[Edit: Actually, I'm not so sure about this now. Would you need a Simrig?]

People on a budget, folks who didnt want or couldnt get surgery(people with a magic rateing). Why have surgery/get more bells and whistles installed on my comm when I dont have too.

imo, simrig is only needed to do raw recordings for simsense "movies" and similar.

a trode net alone is quite capable of acting as the interface of a comlink with a sim module.

By RAW everything points to a trode net as having no drawback over a datajack for purposes of accessing AR/VR. It's one of the major paradigm shifts between 3rd and 4th. Noone's to be kept out of the matrix anymore.
Yet a trode net can be ripped from your head much more easily than a plug from your datajack, heck if you're sitting in a vehicle, it could fly off if the driver takes a steep turn.

I thought you couldn't go hot with a trodenet.

You stop by your chummer's new apartment on a whim, just letting the Dogwalker directions pull you along with its virtual leash and weave you through the pedestrian traffic, while you watch the Seahawks get slaughtered from Coach Allister's POV - it's a perverse pleasure that: a pang of joy in your heart for ever pang of disappointment coming down the feed.

Jimmy rings you, excited that you're stopping by, "Hell yeah come on over, me and the old lady just sitting around watching the game, I just had everything upgraded, too; pick up the pace, man, or it'll be over by the time you get here." So you dial up the Dogwalker a notch to brisk, which you regret because the breather starts nagging about filter life and pointing out kiosks along your route. Who can afford the damn things? you ask, and your personal Accountbot pops up, but you shutdown his tirade about preemptive medical savings with a terse, I'm trying to watch the game here, and get back in time to feel Allister grind his teeth as his defense gives up another first down.

But his new place is nice, a ninth floor flat done up like a Moroccan tea house, the scent of exotic spices wafting (a little heavily) through the air, walls of wrought iron lattice interwoven with flowering ivy, and soft music streaming from somewhere distant. You mute the game to a mosquito buzz in the back of your mind to take in the whole apartment. Jimmy and his girl are lounging on the plush couch in the living room, he's got the game floating in the corner - no telling what she's watching.

Something catches your eye out the window where a flock of nightgulls is taking flight over the ocean, more than six kilometers away, and you walk over, impressed by the perspective depth. You can feel the sunlight standing there, but switch the view to the street outside out of some paranoid impulse and pan around at the people walking about.

"The ocean feed is live," Jimmy says, looking over at you, only seeing the ocean, "but check this out." He holds out his hand where a twisting Celtic knot slithers between an infinity symbol and an oroborous. It can't be an original piece, you think, but he insists it is. "Go ahead and jump in," he says, "It's best on full immersion."

"Later," you tell him, looking back at the street below, when the AR flickers a moment, revealing the grey painted windowless pad as it really is, walless and barren, smelling of concrete and fresh paint. No wonder he put the spice scent so heavy, you think. "Cut it out," Jimmy yells up before looking at you apologetically, "Kid thinks it's funny, fragging hacked my place last week and filled it with spiders, like to the fraggin' ceiling with spiders. I dumped a paycheck into security and now all he can do is shut it off."

Jimmy's girl gives him a look. "What you want me to do," he retorts, "the dad's got horns bigger than my head!" She rolls her eyes and goes back to staring into virtual space. Obviously, her link has better security than his. You unmute the game and smile as the Seahawks fumble the ball, again.

you very much can. just need to pop those safeties out of the sim module

oh and, love it kanada ten, pure love it. better then anything i have come up with lately!

That's really good...

Because full simsense is just better. It's even better in AR than VR because it interacts with your environment...

Your co-worker smell bad? Not with O-Zone™, the new scent eliminating AR feed. Suppress your hunger cravings, eat healthy, and enjoy it, with Evo's AR Diet: broccoli never looked - or tasted - so good. Tactile cell ringers, event feedback: why just see and hear a concert when you can feel the heart of every person in the audience beating inside you. Blood, cold and wet against your lips, splattered from the virtual zombie you just hacked apart, it tastes coppery when you lick it... When he says he can smell a troll coming a mile away, he's not kidding...

I think AR can't remove something like the scent of the co-worker... All you could do is overlay it with a stronger scent...

It's not actually removing it, rather it's activating the same brain functions which allow you to "ignore" your own body odor.

It seems to me, that in the greater scheme of things, the simplest way to go AR/VR is to simply get a simrig.

Since it can selectively apply simsense to you, it can feed you whatever you need, taking the place of pretty much any sensorware that you wanted. The only time you might want something else was if you wanted to improve your senses, but for the basic person who just wants to fully enjoy AR/VR with the minimum amount of hassle, the simrig is the way to go (or if you like hats, a trode rig).

Correct?

a simrig is overkill if all you want to do is experience simsense. a simrig is for recording sensory data, a trode net (in combo with a sim module on the comlink) is used to play it back.

True, a simrig is a bit of overkill, but I was thinking more of the "Once its done, I don't have to ever worry about it again" kind of thing...not having to wear a hat/headband, style your hair how you want, etc.

Other than that, yeah, I'd agree, if you don't mind worrying about the trode rig, thats probably the way to go.

I believe that it's a Sim Module that you are thinking of. Simrigs are used to record simsemse (and btls). The Sim Module is a commlink accessory that allows full interaction with AR.

and you can get a sim module as a implant as well.

Levels of AR interaction