Full Version: Confused on: Bunraku
| QUOTE (JonathanC) |
| Every discussion of Bunraku I've seen in the books (BBB, that crime syndicate book from 2nd edition) seems to suggest that these places are very easy to find. Everybody knows about them, talks about them, and knows where to find them. While most of us here are aware of human trafficking rings, I certainly couldn't point you in the direction of your friendly neighborhood slaver. They keep their heads down. The only people who know about them are people who are involved, interested in the product, or about one degree of separation from one of the above. |
Just go inside your friendly local brothel and ask the manager who sold him his latest bunch of sex slaves from either Asia or East Europe. Ok, won't be that easy, but the idea should come across.
The advantage of kidnapping girls from poor states over recruting girls from rich states: noone will be missing the former, they'll work for much less payment (after you've borken their spirit/will by repeadted raping, torture and whatnot) and they can't simply quit the job.
| QUOTE (JonathanC @ Jan 31 2008, 10:09 AM) |
| And really, why is it so hard to believe that it'd be difficult to find willing participants? |
I don't believe anyone said that there wouldn't be any willing participants. I just think they would be very much in the minority.
Agreed. I'm sure that some bunraku sell themselves into that position, maybe even most of them, and in some places it might even be legal. But I also bet there's exploitation going on and I believe it's a sweeping generalization and far too big of a leap to say that it's legal in many areas or that they're often in a position to advertise.
First off, prostitution rings and bunraku parlors referenced in the books are virtually always presented as being operated by organized crime and are firmly part of the underworld vice economy. On top of that you have to remember that the information in the books are presented as things shadowrunners know, and as such are not always the best indicators of what the general public is aware of. Shadowrunners may know where to find whores who look like Nadja Daviar, but they also sometimes know where you can go find exotic designer combat drugs and laser weapons too, so that doesn't really mean all that much on its own.
Even if for the sake of argument we conceded the idea that bunraku parlors are generally legal, I would still suspect that the raised operating costs of using cybered girls means that such places likely gear themselves towards servicing a select clientele who has a vested interest in keeping themselves anonymous. After all, if the workers are willing and desperate enough to work in such a venture, why would they bother paying for their own datafilters unless they're mandatory? I think this is important because I sincerely doubt that the parlor will front the money for the filter unless it's a necessary expense that exists for the benefit of their clientele. Even if its legal do you think guys like Kenneth Brackhaven and wealthy, respected corp suits really want to bump into John Q. Public on the way out of an Orxanne look-alike's bedroom?
First off, prostitution rings and bunraku parlors referenced in the books are virtually always presented as being operated by organized crime and are firmly part of the underworld vice economy. On top of that you have to remember that the information in the books are presented as things shadowrunners know, and as such are not always the best indicators of what the general public is aware of. Shadowrunners may know where to find whores who look like Nadja Daviar, but they also sometimes know where you can go find exotic designer combat drugs and laser weapons too, so that doesn't really mean all that much on its own.
Even if for the sake of argument we conceded the idea that bunraku parlors are generally legal, I would still suspect that the raised operating costs of using cybered girls means that such places likely gear themselves towards servicing a select clientele who has a vested interest in keeping themselves anonymous. After all, if the workers are willing and desperate enough to work in such a venture, why would they bother paying for their own datafilters unless they're mandatory? I think this is important because I sincerely doubt that the parlor will front the money for the filter unless it's a necessary expense that exists for the benefit of their clientele. Even if its legal do you think guys like Kenneth Brackhaven and wealthy, respected corp suits really want to bump into John Q. Public on the way out of an Orxanne look-alike's bedroom?
I'm going to point out that the television miniseries that may signature comes from is not just based on a book. It is also based on conditions which actually existed in North America between the years of 1642 and 1865. The owners of large farm actually purchased laborers as chattel and they did so openly. It wasn't a big secret and it wasn't hard to find and th authorities didn't do anything about it. On the contrary, the authorities actually protected it for a good long while.
To say that the authorities wouldn't support open slavery is a bit absurd; they already have. It wouldn't take much nudging to get that pesky 13th Amendment repealed.
But the great thing about the UCAS is that it doesn't have any Constitutional prohibition of involuntary servitude. In fact, having signed the Business Recognition Accords, the UCAS is required by international law to recognize and enforce labor contracts.
One interesting aspect of the 13th Amendment is that it prohibits not just chattel slavery but also the much more common conditions of peonage and bonded labor, where an individual will be contractually required to perform an amount of labor to pay off a voluntarily incurred debt. It also prohibits specific performance as a remedy for labor contract disputes.
When we talk about "sex slavery" today, we're not talking about chattel slavery at all. We're talking about bonded labor, for the most part. Young third-world women contract for passage to a better country or for money for their families in exchange for their labor until they pay off the debt. The labor just happens to be in brothels and the pay is probably not enough to pay off the debt in their lifetimes.
While I'm sure that chattel slavery is illegal in most Sixth World jurisdictions, bonded labor certainly is not. Bonded labor is the whole point of the voluntary extraction, after all. The UCAS is required to enforce employment contracts. It is almost certain that the people who recruit involuntary and semi-voluntary subjects for employment in bunraku parlors require that they sign employment contracts. Once the contract is signed, witnessed, and notarized, it cannot be voided without either consent of all parties or a court order. While it is certain that contracts signed due to coercion are voidable, the burden of proof rests on the person who wants to void the contract. In most cases, a young p-fixed prostitute would be unable to do this. Not only would she not want to challenge the contract (unless the P-fix is removed) but if she did then she would not have any witnesses to call. It would simply be her word against the word for her employer, his two witnesses, and a notary public.
To say that the authorities wouldn't support open slavery is a bit absurd; they already have. It wouldn't take much nudging to get that pesky 13th Amendment repealed.
But the great thing about the UCAS is that it doesn't have any Constitutional prohibition of involuntary servitude. In fact, having signed the Business Recognition Accords, the UCAS is required by international law to recognize and enforce labor contracts.
One interesting aspect of the 13th Amendment is that it prohibits not just chattel slavery but also the much more common conditions of peonage and bonded labor, where an individual will be contractually required to perform an amount of labor to pay off a voluntarily incurred debt. It also prohibits specific performance as a remedy for labor contract disputes.
When we talk about "sex slavery" today, we're not talking about chattel slavery at all. We're talking about bonded labor, for the most part. Young third-world women contract for passage to a better country or for money for their families in exchange for their labor until they pay off the debt. The labor just happens to be in brothels and the pay is probably not enough to pay off the debt in their lifetimes.
While I'm sure that chattel slavery is illegal in most Sixth World jurisdictions, bonded labor certainly is not. Bonded labor is the whole point of the voluntary extraction, after all. The UCAS is required to enforce employment contracts. It is almost certain that the people who recruit involuntary and semi-voluntary subjects for employment in bunraku parlors require that they sign employment contracts. Once the contract is signed, witnessed, and notarized, it cannot be voided without either consent of all parties or a court order. While it is certain that contracts signed due to coercion are voidable, the burden of proof rests on the person who wants to void the contract. In most cases, a young p-fixed prostitute would be unable to do this. Not only would she not want to challenge the contract (unless the P-fix is removed) but if she did then she would not have any witnesses to call. It would simply be her word against the word for her employer, his two witnesses, and a notary public.
| QUOTE (Grinder) | ||
Just go inside your friendly local brothel and ask the manager who sold him his latest bunch of sex slaves from either Asia or East Europe. Ok, won't be that easy, but the idea should come across. The advantage of kidnapping girls from poor states over recruting girls from rich states: noone will be missing the former, they'll work for much less payment (after you've borken their spirit/will by repeadted raping, torture and whatnot) and they can't simply quit the job. |
who said anything about recruiting in rich states? The rich/poor divide in the 6th world pretty much qualifies most of the cities where Runners hang out as 3rd world countries.
| QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 30 2008, 06:05 PM) |
| because if i tell you you're a pilot that still does not mean you can fly a plane . . the wires would be me telling you that you're the pilot while guiding your hands and telling you how to do things so you actually CAN fly the plane . . |
It's just sex. How good of a mimic do they have to be?
What are the odds the person they look like is even better than they are? I mean, unless you want every meatpuppet to perform some world class fellatio by slotting a chip.
And speaking of profitable, sex slavery is pretty profitable going by the chart in the back of Cyberpirates. After all, Eskimos need love too. But they've gotta pay.
| QUOTE (martindv @ Jan 31 2008, 12:36 AM) | ||
It's just sex. How good of a mimic do they have to be? What are the odds the person they look like is even better than they are? I mean, unless you want every meatpuppet to perform some world class fellatio by slotting a chip. |
I do believe that the phrase you're looking for is "Exotic Melee Weapon: Bull Whip"
There is never any such thing just sex. There are all different kinds of sex. There's sweaty backseat sex, there's empty emotionless porn sex, there's passionate "I know you're my sister but it feels too good to be wrong" sex. There is tantric sex. There is non-orgasmic sex. There is slow loving cuddling and petting with penetration but without urgency. There is airplane bathroom sex. There is "we're slowly being digested by the gastric juices of a giant whale so we might as well do it" sex.
More importantly, sex is a skill. It is an active skill. It is an active skill with many specializations and various complimentary skills. And it isn't even just one active skill. It is an entire active skill group. And it uses skills from other groups, as well. It uses medical skills and combat skills. It uses fucking animal husbandry skills sometimes. Do you know how to nail someone's nipples to a 2x4 without drawing blood or causing irreparable damage? I don't. I have seen people who do know ply their trade, however. And if I'm going to pay good money to have someone nail my nipples to a board I'd damned sure want someone with a very high skill level.
There are sexual techniques which, if performed incorrectly, are fatal. If you don't believe, all you'd have to do is ask a dude called Mr. Hands, who died of a perforated bowel after a romp in his friend's horse stable ( a video of which is available for download on the internet). Orifices will only stretch so much before rupturing and if you don't know where that limit is, it is very very easy to surpass it by accident. And strangulation. Many people love to be strangled during sex. If you strangle too softly it doesn't work. If you strangle in the wrong place, you cut off the blood flow and your partner passes out in seconds. If you strangle too hard you crush the airway and your partner needs a tracheotomy. And, of course, we should never forget edge play. You don't want to cut too lightly, that's no fun. But you don't want to cut too deep, that requires hospitalization. Staying in the happy medium between the two requires skill.
Then there is the Kama Sutra. Everybody loves the Kama Sutra. There are positions in that book that require decades of mental and physical training to perform safely. Trying these without high skill and high agility is guaranteed to cause you injury. Heck, there are some that only a pair max dicepool sex adepts could successfully pull off.
And sometimes you'll want lower skill. Maybe that young inexperienced high schoolgirl of my dreams was once the young inexperienced kindergartener of someone else's. Maybe I'm dealing with a 14-year-old who has a decade of experience and a sex skill of 7. But I don't want a freshman who can teach deepthroating techniques Linda Lovelace; I want a fumbling virgin. So the proprietor of may favorite brothel hooks her up with a rating 0 skillsoft (if such a thing exists) so that I can get the default-to-agility that I want.
Oh, Hyz. You just made me laugh and clap with glee. You win the thread, just for that post.
| QUOTE (JonathanC) | ||||
who said anything about recruiting in rich states? The rich/poor divide in the 6th world pretty much qualifies most of the cities where Runners hang out as 3rd world countries. |
Hm, that's true - and I didn't even think of SINless people.
okay. at this point, i think it's fairly safe to disregard the majority of JonathanC's points, because he continues to provide zero backing for his view of how things work. as far as i'm aware, there is no evidence that bunraku parlors explicitly and publically advertise themselves as place where one can have sex with simulacra of famous personalities in exchange for money. therefore, there's no reason to assume that bunraku parlors face any more legal and/or moral opposition than anything in the modern illicit sex market. carry on with your normal activities, citizens; the crisis has been averted.
as far as voluntary recruitment goes, there are plenty of voluntary sex workers nowadays. more of them come in droves to every major city. the demand, however, is so incredibly high that it's just not enough. there are, i'm sure, voluntary bunraku dolls--lots and lots of them. you'll generally find them at the nicer joints. the low-rent parlors, however, are going to be a hell of a lot more common, because most people would rather pay 25Y for a handjob by Nadja Daviar than 100Y. and in those low-rent parlors, you're going to find a) voluntary dolls whose health has been so badly sapped by long years in their profession that they can't get work elsewhere, and b) involuntary dolls.
as far as voluntary recruitment goes, there are plenty of voluntary sex workers nowadays. more of them come in droves to every major city. the demand, however, is so incredibly high that it's just not enough. there are, i'm sure, voluntary bunraku dolls--lots and lots of them. you'll generally find them at the nicer joints. the low-rent parlors, however, are going to be a hell of a lot more common, because most people would rather pay 25Y for a handjob by Nadja Daviar than 100Y. and in those low-rent parlors, you're going to find a) voluntary dolls whose health has been so badly sapped by long years in their profession that they can't get work elsewhere, and b) involuntary dolls.
| QUOTE | ||||
I do believe that the phrase you're looking for is "Exotic Melee Weapon: Bull Whip" There is never any such thing just sex. There are all different kinds of sex. There's sweaty backseat sex, there's empty emotionless porn sex, there's passionate "I know you're my sister but it feels too good to be wrong" sex. There is tantric sex. There is non-orgasmic sex. There is slow loving cuddling and petting with penetration but without urgency. There is airplane bathroom sex. There is "we're slowly being digested by the gastric juices of a giant whale so we might as well do it" sex. More importantly, sex is a skill. It is an active skill. It is an active skill with many specializations and various complimentary skills. And it isn't even just one active skill. It is an entire active skill group. And it uses skills from other groups, as well. It uses medical skills and combat skills. It uses fucking animal husbandry skills sometimes. Do you know how to nail someone's nipples to a 2x4 without drawing blood or causing irreparable damage? I don't. I have seen people who do know ply their trade, however. And if I'm going to pay good money to have someone nail my nipples to a board I'd damned sure want someone with a very high skill level. There are sexual techniques which, if performed incorrectly, are fatal. If you don't believe, all you'd have to do is ask a dude called Mr. Hands, who died of a perforated bowel after a romp in his friend's horse stable ( a video of which is available for download on the internet). Orifices will only stretch so much before rupturing and if you don't know where that limit is, it is very very easy to surpass it by accident. And strangulation. Many people love to be strangled during sex. If you strangle too softly it doesn't work. If you strangle in the wrong place, you cut off the blood flow and your partner passes out in seconds. If you strangle too hard you crush the airway and your partner needs a tracheotomy. And, of course, we should never forget edge play. You don't want to cut too lightly, that's no fun. But you don't want to cut too deep, that requires hospitalization. Staying in the happy medium between the two requires skill. Then there is the Kama Sutra. Everybody loves the Kama Sutra. There are positions in that book that require decades of mental and physical training to perform safely. Trying these without high skill and high agility is guaranteed to cause you injury. Heck, there are some that only a pair max dicepool sex adepts could successfully pull off. And sometimes you'll want lower skill. Maybe that young inexperienced high schoolgirl of my dreams was once the young inexperienced kindergartener of someone else's. Maybe I'm dealing with a 14-year-old who has a decade of experience and a sex skill of 7. But I don't want a freshman who can teach deepthroating techniques Linda Lovelace; I want a fumbling virgin. So the proprietor of may favorite brothel hooks her up with a rating 0 skillsoft (if such a thing exists) so that I can get the default-to-agility that I want. |
you are one strange fucker O.o
Says the dude from Germany. We're all on the internet here. We know what freaky shit your people call porn.
What?
Oh dear, here we go...
Yeah, you too, Grinder!
I know all about you zany Krauts and your weirdo poop fetishes and stuff. My eyes have been opened! Opened horribly, and violently, and they can never be closed again!
*sobs uncontrollably*
I know all about you zany Krauts and your weirdo poop fetishes and stuff. My eyes have been opened! Opened horribly, and violently, and they can never be closed again!
*sobs uncontrollably*
Don't you think that the US has it's share of people who enjoy strange sex too? And produce movies with that theme too? 
Overdosed on South Park I think...
| QUOTE (Grinder) |
| And produce movies with that theme too? |
Nowhere near as many as Germany.
Yay, so we're World Leaders? Finally, finally!
I had a character who was an ex-bunraku. It occurs to me that next time I actually have a PC in an SR3 game set before 2060, I should have him visit a bunraku parlor and have sex with her.
Or is that way too narcistic?
Or is that way too narcistic?
| QUOTE (FriendoftheDork) |
| OK seriously this is perhaps the most disturbing aspect of Shadowrun.... |
troll on dwarf action
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
And sometimes you'll want lower skill. Maybe that young inexperienced high schoolgirl of my dreams was once the young inexperienced kindergartener of someone else's. Maybe I'm dealing with a 14-year-old who has a decade of experience and a sex skill of 7. But I don't want a freshman who can teach deepthroating techniques Linda Lovelace; I want a fumbling virgin. So the proprietor of may favorite brothel hooks her up with a rating 0 skillsoft (if such a thing exists) so that I can get the default-to-agility that I want. |
A p'fix chip could force someone to perform below their skill level, quiet easily, and knowsoft BTLs could even be entire memory histories, to simulate the perfect bumbling girl (since they compiled it from hundreds of their own). The joytoy could have instructions fed to her via the AR network in near realtime, combined with her experience level, for the more - ah - intricate performances. Not saying they don't have skillwire puppets, just that the average user wouldn't know the difference.
SR4 makes it clear in the early chapters (under Entertainment) that prostitution is both illegal (though "law enforcement has all but given up"), and that bunraku parlors are the dark underbelly of even illegal operations (ending on the note, "But why stop there: bunraku puppets are rented by the hour. Slaves are forever."
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| okay. at this point, i think it's fairly safe to disregard the majority of JonathanC's points, because he continues to provide zero backing for his view of how things work. |
You say this as though you've got full citations for your own POVs expressed in this thread, you fucking hypocrite.
| QUOTE (JonathanC) | ||
You say this as though you've got full citations for your own POVs expressed in this thread, you fucking hypocrite. |
Freaking... You guys are starting it up again!
While I'm not contributing to the discussion, since I've yet to play in a game with Bunraku parlors of any type, I'm still reading the damn thing.
Three personal attacks does not make a right turn!
In RE "Sex trade advertising"...
****WARNING! LINK BELOW NSFW!****
Edited content
Took me about 30 seconds of google-fu.
Of course, I'm not admitting to having it bookmarked or anything...
[edit: added NSFW warning}
Don't bother with NSFW tags. If it isn't NSFW, it shouldn't be linked.
****WARNING! LINK BELOW NSFW!****
Edited content
Took me about 30 seconds of google-fu.
Of course, I'm not admitting to having it bookmarked or anything...
[edit: added NSFW warning}
Don't bother with NSFW tags. If it isn't NSFW, it shouldn't be linked.
Something to remember is that meat-puppets only cost 50 
an hour so they can't be that uncommon or high class.
an hour so they can't be that uncommon or high class.| QUOTE (JonathanC) |
| You say this as though you've got full citations for your own POVs expressed in this thread, you fucking hypocrite. |
i actually have. i've shown how the sex industry works in real life, and extrapolated to how it works in SR. in the absence of anything else, extrapolation from real life is as good a source as any.
as it happens, however, there is proof. if you check the Underworld SB, you'll find on page 44 that the Yakuza actually do run trideo ads for their prostitution rackets/brothels, in some parts of the world. in most places, however, they advertise the same way it's often done in real life: little stickers with cute girls, a phone number, and no names. the stickers are plastered all over the place, and everybody knows what they're for.
bunraku parlors are not mentioned on page 44, though. they're mentioned on pages 19-20, where several of the posters express shock and disgust at the practice. obviously, then not everyone know about bunraku parlors, which means they're not in the phone book, they don't run trideo ads, and they're not anywhere near as open as you make them out to be.
| QUOTE (Ravor) |
| Something to remember is that meat-puppets only cost 50 an hour so they can't be that uncommon or high class. |
They also can't have *that* high a rate of turnover, with prices like that. You're spending thousands of nuyen just on the cyber, plus paying a surgeon to install the stuff, plus cosmetic surgery. We'll assume that wardrobe is negligible.
I'm not trying to argue that Bunraku shouldn't be horrible, degrading, or sleazy. I'm saying that realistically, within the parameters of what they've described and the world it's in, disposable cyber hookers just don't make an awful lot of sense.
Regarding MFB, extrapolating details of prostitution marketing from current trends and applying them to a far future scenario involving designer hookers with highly sensitive wetware installed just doesn't make sense. I'm going to go back and check my book, but I don't recall seeing anything that suggests they do most of their advertising with stickers. I *do* recall the mention of trideo ads...which means these are publicly known locations. While it's quite possible that even publicly known Bunraku parlors have unwilling employees, I doubt that's the majority. If you have TV ads, you've got a somewhat permanent location.
I don't see what's so odd about assuming that the vast majority of bunraku workers are economically disadvantaged, desperate as hell people, likely addicted to drugs, BTLs, or both, who sign up with what passes for a sound mind and body. I could definitely see the situation changing depending on the location...you could disappear whoever you want in a place like The Barrens, but then again...I doubt you could keep a brothel open in the Barrens. They'd be all over your talent in a heartbeat and stripping their cyber for organleggers.
| QUOTE (JonathanC) | ||
They also can't have *that* high a rate of turnover, with prices like that. You're spending thousands of nuyen just on the cyber, plus paying a surgeon to install the stuff, plus cosmetic surgery. We'll assume that wardrobe is negligible. |
I'm thinking these are the ones with just the Personachip. The wired ones would bring in a higher rate.
Wardrobe = nanofax + recycling
Alrighty, shiny gold text time.
First of all, no generalizations about a country's or people's practices or porn. You know better, and that easily falls within the realms of a personal attack, just as much as an attack on a religion does.
Second, we know how the system works. We don't need at length listings concerning 14 year olds and so on.
First of all, no generalizations about a country's or people's practices or porn. You know better, and that easily falls within the realms of a personal attack, just as much as an attack on a religion does.
Second, we know how the system works. We don't need at length listings concerning 14 year olds and so on.
| QUOTE |
| you fucking hypocrite. |
Tone it down and keep the discussion polite. As with religion and politics threads, this one treads a fine line. Keep it within those lines, and stay away from personal attacks, or the thread will be closed.
| QUOTE (JonathanC) |
| I'm going to go back and check my book, but I don't recall seeing anything that suggests they do most of their advertising with stickers. I *do* recall the mention of trideo ads...which means these are publicly known locations. |
well, like i said--pages 19-20 and 44 of the Underworld SB.
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0 @ Jan 31 2008, 06:49 PM) |
| First of all, no generalizations about a country's or people's practices or porn. You know better, and that easily falls within the realms of a personal attack, just as much as an attack on a religion does. |
I can say with certainty that Germany produces the best poop porn in the world. It isn't just about volume; it is about enthusiasm. In Brazilian and Japanese movies of this type that I have seen, it is usually very obvious that the performers are just doing it for the money. German productions tend to be different, thanks to actresses such as Veronica Moser and Alexia, who are actually into it and obviously so. The amazing quality of such works is nothing to be ashamed of. It should be a matter of great pride.
However, I'm also pretty sure that such videos serve a small niche market and are a very small minority of all German porn, just as niche fetish videos are a small minority of all porn markets.
And to bring this pack to the bunraku, one of the great things about persona-fixes is that they can be used to create real enthusiasm for things that would otherwise by icky at the very least. They can also be used to create a real lack of enthusiasm for those individuals who are turned off by consent.
yeah, SWAP was terrible! no passion at all.
I'm STILL trying to wash all memory of that site out of my brain, and I only saw the stills...
I.. I'm at a complete and total loss for words.
/bleach in ear
/bleach in ear
I am a bit hesitant to bring this up but, I am appealing to my inner masochist. I play a street doc character that does that kind of work on the side. Here is the how-to. He does free clinic work out of the back of his hovercraft (Jacksonville 2070 has flooding problems). The GMC Everglade is fitted with a medical bay. It is easy to find a sinless person who is willing to be wired up. You find the ones with an addiction (preferably a beetle head). They will do anything for that next bit of escapism and they have already proved that they will put a wire into their head. Tell them you really care about them and listen to the lie that they tell themselves about how they are going to change if they just had a chance. Offer them a way. You can make them faster, stronger, prettier…… On the streets the use of implants means an edge. Just ask the gangers or watch the trideos. Once they go under the knife a default personafix is downloaded into the datajack (it does have memory) that has a strong loyalty trait. Skillwire 1 will give them any skill that will be needed to go with the chipped personality and cosmetic surgery will cover up the ravages of street life/ addictions. I personally prefer to add cyber-breast and oral slasher. Usually I have them work a resort. A fee is paid to the management but it is usually safer. If they have to work rough trade on the streets I have them followed by Trogg (yes, a troll). Even at the low end of 20 nuyen a blow, 4 to 6 customers later you start to show a profit if you work daily. Running a free clinic cost money. Figure in living expenses. I have a high lifestyle with add on for each person. 10,000 plus 1,000 per extra person. Then paying off for the implants and cosmetics that I supplied for them. They have 2 to 3 years of living a lifestyle that they never would have had, with the default personafix they are happy at what they are doing. A couple of years to wean them off what ever addiction they have. After all that they are free to do as they will. Now here is the catch. A couple of years of being happy (it’s like a drug. Ask any psychiatrist) and off the addiction that started their problem at the beginning. They will come back for more or just go right back to streets. If they come back, then you give them more implants, maybe even bioware. Some cosmetic surgery to keep them young looking. And they will work for a few more years on their back. The point is this, an addict is a victim. They will always find somebody to victimize them. In a cyberpunk culture it can be simple or it can get pretty exotic. But, it will always be choice of predator or prey. Who are you going to be?
You purposely chose to wait and make your first post on Dumpshock in this thread??? 
Welcome, by the way.
Welcome, by the way.
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 6 2008, 01:01 AM) 
You purposely chose to wait and make your first post on Dumpshock in this thread???
An opportunity i couldn't resist either.
As far as thedafans' statement about "upgrading" implants over the years is concerned, it might be a reasonable explanation for heavily augmented hookers, including not only expertly skillwired meatpuppets, there's tons of other implants that might become useful in this line of work, from muscle toner and enhanced articulation to the various cosmetic mods from Augmentation, not to mention the amount of implants needed for the cyberfetishist/transhumanist scene being mentioned in more and more fluff text.
Plus, this process ensures decades of "voluntary" indebtment, enabling vice syndicates to make...rather long term investments (yay to genetic rejuvenation!).
Makes for a classic samurai backstory, too, which might be needless to say since Molly has already been mentioned several times on this thread.
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 5 2008, 07:01 PM)
You purposely chose to wait and make your first post on Dumpshock in this thread???
Welcome, by the way.
Welcome, by the way.
Blame it on me, Fortune. Myself and thedafan are alternating GM's in the same game. Given the charcter he is playing (street name Dr. Evil, btw) I thought he should take a look at the thread.. hehe
QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Feb 6 2008, 11:26 AM)
An opportunity i couldn't resist either.
Yeah, but you joined today, whereas thedafan has been lurking for over three months.
So, a Dumpshock welcome to you as well.
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 6 2008, 01:42 AM)
Yeah, but you joined today, whereas thedafan has been lurking for over three months.
Now that is frightening.
QUOTE
So, a Dumpshock welcome to you as well.
Thanks a lot!
*lays down a couple bursts of suppressing fire and eeks into the fire fight already in progress*
Japan has a long and "proud" tradition of paying for people to pay attention to you. In Okinawa they have this slightly disturbing business we call "Buy-Me-Drink-Me Girls". Basically they're bars you go in, pay like 20-30 bucks at the door and than pay 10 dollars a "drink" for girls who come by, pour your drinks for you and generally do their best to ooze sex and keep you entertained. At less classy establishments they also provide other services that I'm sure you can guess. I've never really gotten into a deep conversation with a national over why these places exists but they're extremely common. These bars are generally staffed by Phillipine nationals who were "recruited" under the guise that they would be "singers" in a classy bar in Japan. Months later when they're giving 50-100 dollar handjobs for chump change, they're already indentured servants. Typically the people who own these places charge them for everything (like a good corps), transportation, room, board, "training" etc etc. They hang on to these girls until they're so old they just end working there or they can't use them anymore. The biggest dream many of these girls have is getting married to an American service member who'll be able to pay off their contract and spring them. It's not quite slavery but I'd be hard pressed to say that it's in any way shape or form "right". If you're ever out here, have a soul, ask a buymedrinkme girl to sing. When she starts belting out some soulful notes you'll probably want to weep.
I could talk for hours about why I'm glad that I was raised the way I was and have what I consider is a sane and not totally demeaning view of the opposite gender. Half jokingly I claim that this is because they censor normal sex so the population has to develop some pretty odd tastes. I'm really so sure that analysis is very far from the truth though.
That combined with my passing knowledge of the vast sex trade in the mainland makes me think that 70 years hence, in a future that is simply more so, bunraku parlors are going to be a huge HUGE business. Running under a similar guise of taciturn legitimacy and protected by powerful corporate and yakuza interests, I'm dead sure they flourish. On the whole I'm going to guess that most slaves aren't abducted but "recruited", they make a pittance but compared to what they'd be making if they still lived in whatever shell nation they came for, it might even seem worth it. I remember reading a National Geographic issue on the slave trade and how peoples /parents/ might very well sell them into slavery to cover debts or pay for basic needs.
And to whoever said that compassion and respect are weakness. Wow man, having a healthy respect for something is the surest way to make sure it doesn't stomp you flat. Being able to demonstrate some iota of compassion is vital to being able to intergrate your enemies strengths and make them your own. Evolution isn't about killing everyone else, it's about not dying and making lots of babies. Generally you make more babies if people are encouraged /not/ to slit your dirty rapist throat in your sleep.
Japan has a long and "proud" tradition of paying for people to pay attention to you. In Okinawa they have this slightly disturbing business we call "Buy-Me-Drink-Me Girls". Basically they're bars you go in, pay like 20-30 bucks at the door and than pay 10 dollars a "drink" for girls who come by, pour your drinks for you and generally do their best to ooze sex and keep you entertained. At less classy establishments they also provide other services that I'm sure you can guess. I've never really gotten into a deep conversation with a national over why these places exists but they're extremely common. These bars are generally staffed by Phillipine nationals who were "recruited" under the guise that they would be "singers" in a classy bar in Japan. Months later when they're giving 50-100 dollar handjobs for chump change, they're already indentured servants. Typically the people who own these places charge them for everything (like a good corps), transportation, room, board, "training" etc etc. They hang on to these girls until they're so old they just end working there or they can't use them anymore. The biggest dream many of these girls have is getting married to an American service member who'll be able to pay off their contract and spring them. It's not quite slavery but I'd be hard pressed to say that it's in any way shape or form "right". If you're ever out here, have a soul, ask a buymedrinkme girl to sing. When she starts belting out some soulful notes you'll probably want to weep.
I could talk for hours about why I'm glad that I was raised the way I was and have what I consider is a sane and not totally demeaning view of the opposite gender. Half jokingly I claim that this is because they censor normal sex so the population has to develop some pretty odd tastes. I'm really so sure that analysis is very far from the truth though.
That combined with my passing knowledge of the vast sex trade in the mainland makes me think that 70 years hence, in a future that is simply more so, bunraku parlors are going to be a huge HUGE business. Running under a similar guise of taciturn legitimacy and protected by powerful corporate and yakuza interests, I'm dead sure they flourish. On the whole I'm going to guess that most slaves aren't abducted but "recruited", they make a pittance but compared to what they'd be making if they still lived in whatever shell nation they came for, it might even seem worth it. I remember reading a National Geographic issue on the slave trade and how peoples /parents/ might very well sell them into slavery to cover debts or pay for basic needs.
And to whoever said that compassion and respect are weakness. Wow man, having a healthy respect for something is the surest way to make sure it doesn't stomp you flat. Being able to demonstrate some iota of compassion is vital to being able to intergrate your enemies strengths and make them your own. Evolution isn't about killing everyone else, it's about not dying and making lots of babies. Generally you make more babies if people are encouraged /not/ to slit your dirty rapist throat in your sleep.
Juice girls.
BTW, what sap pays $100 for a handjob?
BTW, what sap pays $100 for a handjob?
juice juice! yeah, they do the same thing in korea, and probably everywhere else where there are high concentrations of young guys with money to spend.
Marines, sailors, and airmen who... excuse me
ARE FREAKING RETARDED
This in the face of the "Soapies", down the street where you can get a massage, a bath, another massage, and "anyting you want" for about the same price. Paying for sex is goofy but I understand where they're coming from. Language barrier and all that.
I think it comes down to people just wanting the company and something of the illusion of seducing a pretty girl. That's why I firmly believe bunraku parlors would be huge business, drawing in a much larger selection of society beyond "People who want to have sex with Liv Tyler's likeness".
ARE FREAKING RETARDED
This in the face of the "Soapies", down the street where you can get a massage, a bath, another massage, and "anyting you want" for about the same price. Paying for sex is goofy but I understand where they're coming from. Language barrier and all that.
I think it comes down to people just wanting the company and something of the illusion of seducing a pretty girl. That's why I firmly believe bunraku parlors would be huge business, drawing in a much larger selection of society beyond "People who want to have sex with Liv Tyler's likeness".
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 6 2008, 09:01 AM)
Typically the people who own these places charge them for everything (like a good corps), transportation, room, board, "training" etc etc. They hang on to these girls until they're so old they just end working there or they can't use them anymore. The biggest dream many of these girls have is getting married to an American service member who'll be able to pay off their contract and spring them. It's not quite slavery but I'd be hard pressed to say that it's in any way shape or form "right". If you're ever out here, have a soul, ask a buymedrinkme girl to sing. When she starts belting out some soulful notes you'll probably want to weep.
This is sorta how me and Thedafan are running Meat parlors, brothels, whore houses, sex shops, etc etc. Much like the modern real world 'potato work camps' we, unfortunately, still have in the south. The 'employees' are salaried at around 40 dollars a day for 12 hour shifts. Then they pay to sleep at the 'company dorms' to the tune of 20 dollars a day. The get meals and amenities at the 'company store' at the rate of about 10 dollars per meal and a meal is about what amounts to a McD's happy meal in nutritional value and content, $2.50 for 16oz. drinks, $5.00 for a can of beer, ect ect. Plus, the store can provide (at double the current street value) any number of 'prescriptions' like meth, crack and heroine. As well as time with the skanky 'company nurses' who charges a hefty fee for 'physical therapy'. Not that the 'employee' actually pay any money. They have a 'line of credit' at the company store. At the end of the week, the services they use are tallied up and applied against their earned salary for the week. Needless to say, they are ALWAYS in the red..
It's a pretty popular business model that's been around forever I suppose. The first guy who realized they could employ someone /and/ use them as a customer was one happy guy.
I'm sorry but the whole time I read your post all I could hear was that "I sold my soul to the company store" song.
I guess that's kinda the idea behind feudalism isn't it?
Something else I just thought about. The bars here write their girls off as "performers" and actually go through the motions of doing dance routines and what not whenever they get raided. I'm pretty sure that bunraku parlors do the same thing with skillwires, claiming that they're implanted so that the performances will be better.
Hell, I bet they get a goddamn tax write off for it.
I'm sorry but the whole time I read your post all I could hear was that "I sold my soul to the company store" song.
I guess that's kinda the idea behind feudalism isn't it?
Something else I just thought about. The bars here write their girls off as "performers" and actually go through the motions of doing dance routines and what not whenever they get raided. I'm pretty sure that bunraku parlors do the same thing with skillwires, claiming that they're implanted so that the performances will be better.
Hell, I bet they get a goddamn tax write off for it.
And that my friends is one of the reasons that they are called wageslaves. 
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Feb 6 2008, 09:01 AM)
Generally you make more babies if people are encouraged /not/ to slit your dirty rapist throat in your sleep.
Well, that's why capture-bonding is useful. The right combination of isolation, affection, and discipline can get anyone to love you so much that your death is unthinkable.
Of course, a good pimp doesn't need personafixes. A good pimp makes his hos want to turn tricks for him. The lack of emotional manipulation in the Asian pimping business is just sad really.
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