Hey all,

I have this sudden and bizarre urge to revise, update, and post all of the old SR 1e and 2e archtypes (such as the Former Tribal Warrior, Burned Out Mage, etc.) to SR4e. The problem is, while I still have a copy of Sprawl Sites, I no longer own a copy of SR1e itself, or of any of the other SR1e/2e sourcebooks that featured the usual full page ready-to-use archetypes (typically full colour, IIRC, illustrated by Laubenstein in nearly every case).
So, anyone out there know where I can find the old archetypaes from the various old supplements, or (if nothing else) the Laubenstein images of the various archetypes (some art would be better than none), please?

cheers!
Colin

A man after my own heart.

I think SR is much poorer for not having the variety of archetypes it used to have.


I'll be keeping an eye on this.

Here's the names of the Archetypes, if you need something else, PM me. (I don't have SR1, btw)

SR2:
Bodyguard
Combat Mage
Decker
Detective
Dwarf Mercenary
Elven Decker
Former Company Man
Former Wage Mage
Gang Member
Mercenary
Rigger
Shaman
Street Mage --> Synner667
Street Samurai
Street Shaman
Tribesman

SR3 (Luckily these pages haven't fallen out yet!):
The Adept
Combat Decker
Combat Mage
Covert Ops Specialist
Drone Rigger
The Face
The Investigator
The Mercenary
Sprawl Ganger
Street Mage
Street Samurai
Street Shaman
The Tech-Wiz
Tribal Shaman
Vehicle Rigger
Weapons Specialist

Funny you should bring this up, I've been working on a SR4 update of the Burned-Out Mage to use as a SRM character.

I have SR1, Sprawl Sites, and so on. If you need info, let me know.

oooh would you probably be able to post the burnout mage's stats/gear?
i lost my 1st edition and only remember he had wired reflexes 1, muscle replacement 1, cybereyes w flare and ir, dermal plating 1 and skillwires 3. could be wrong grade wise with the last 2 tho.
as weapon he had a fichetti 600 iirc and the only spell i remember was stunbolt 3.

I'm sure something can be arranged.

The SR1 and SR2 versions are a little different.
SR2 version (from the Contacts book) has a power focus, for instance.


Moderators: What are the limits on reposting stuff like this?

As I recall, aren't the Archtype pages "special" in that they can be reproduced for use for non-profit? I don't see the mods probably slapping someone's hand for posting their stats and posessions here, to be upgraded for the new edition. Those books are all out of print and it's not like printing the "characters" is in, anyway, gonna allow somoeone to play the game without purchasing the material. It would be like saying you couldn't post an original character because someone might use it to play the game without buying the book. People post the stats of 3rd and 4th edition character archetypes here all the time as they twink and twiddle and moan about balance and illogical builds.

True, I am not a lawyer, but I imagine the mods would probably overlook someone doing this unless Catalyst actually got a complaint and then complained themselves and then they would probably jsut delete the post(s).

I, too, am interested in seeing an "update" of hte old archetypes.

Vlad

There were more Archetypes (like the elven street samurai, etc) in the Street Samurai Catalog.

A reposting of the original SR1/2/3 materials would be a substantial problem.

A posting of the SR4 conversions of the SR1/2/3 materials would be a novel work and would also be totally cool.

The one SR1 archetype that I notice missing off the top of my head is the Rocker.

That's what I figured. Thanks.

Okay, so, in the interest of keeping this alive and preventing people from duplicating each other's work, I suggest anyone interested in this post up a couple ATs they want to work on.

Dibs on:
Burned-Out Mage
Tribesman
and... hmm... Detective

Goal here should be to remain true to the original concept, but with 2070's sensibilities/gear/etc. Min/Max at your discression, but avoid things that are blatantly out of character or weird.

The Archetypes from Cybertechnology aren't something for the players like anything from the core books but they need to be mentioned for awesomeness:

Cyber Runner
Special Forces Trooper
Cyber Assassin
Six-Million-Nuyen-Streetsam
Cyberzombie
Cyberlogician

The latter 3 being cyberzombies of course.

You're not going to be able to legally reproduce the images. You can reproduce the stats I imagine, but why bother? SR1 archetypes use gears, skills, stats and build systems which are not compatible with SR4. I'd recommend taking the concept and rebuilding the archetype from scratch. Just converting won't work (for instance, no one will have the dodge skill or comm links, obviously).

But definitely a noble goal. I'd love to see what you accomplish.

May want to throw this in with this: Sample Character Project

Hey all,

Blimey, didn't realise there'd be this much interest. In short, yep, it's not about straight conversion, but about taking the old and revamping it for the new (while staying as close to the original concepts and designs as possible).

All I still have of the early old stuff at present is Sprawl Sites (containing the Bodyguard, Combat Mage, Dwarf Merc, Elf Mage, Former Mage Detective, Former Military Officer, Former Tribal Warrior, and Troll Bounty Hunter). So, I basically need decent colour scans of the various other archetype images from 1e/2e and its supplements, and the appropriate text and stats for the archetypes as well. If anyone can help with that tall order, cheers, stuff can be e-mailed to me: oaklynx at yahoo dot co dot uk

As a teacher, I get a nice long Summer holiday in which to put together a nicely formatted pdf containing the old pics and flavour text, but with all new 4e stats. Appropriate copyright for the images and fluff would be included, etc. of course (along with links for Catalyst), so I can't see anyone bitching about the use of old edition illustrations, which (let's face it) will never see the light of publication again. Plus, I'll have finished my current freelance rpg assignments by then, so I can relax and do it properly.

If Catalyst would have a problem with this, I'm sure they'd let us know before things got started anyway.

cheers!
Colin

Dont forget the Trid Reporter, Cybersnoop, Elvine rocker, Rocker Star, and Rocketing Rtings Rocker from Shadowbeat. And the Houngan (mambo), Street Warrior, Street Sorcerer, and Ghost Hunter from Awakenings.

.... yeah good ol Shadowbeat.

Dibs on the Cybersnoop and Trid Reporter. (had a Cybersnoop character back in 3rd ed, I think I can rebuild her pretty close to the original concept)

Archetypes listing

[SR1 BBB] (all were human unless noted)
Burned-Out Mage
Decker
Detective
Elven Decker
Former Company Man
Former Wage Mage
Gang Member
Merc
Ork Mercenary
Rigger
Rocker
Shaman
Street Mage
Street Samurai
Street Shaman
Tribesman

[SR1 Street Samurai Catalog]
Dwarf Street Samurai
Elven Street Samurai
Ork Street Samurai
Troll Street Samurai

Ahh, this sounds. good. I call dibs on the Elven Street Sam and the..ah, not sure yet. But the elven street sam i can work on a bit.

EDIT: I'd also like the Troll Street Sam. BTW....when you say revising, i guess we can take a few liberties and perhaps put some attributes/points where they are lacking? I mean the poor troll has a willpower of ONE. He's like, asking for a 5 year old to cast a force 1 Mana Carrot at his brain to fry him. Of course, there needs to be skill adjustments, as the skill style in SR1-2 was different(thought not TOTALLY...they sort of did have Skill Groups, in a way, that many of the skills were whomped together, like Firearms.)

if i decide to take a third, gods help me, it might be the Rocker, unless anyone else wants it.

aww i wanted the burnout as well *sniffsniff*
oh well then i 'll call dibs on the dwarven sammie as i have the sammie catalogue still

and will also make my own burnout

Hehe, with the burnout as popular as he is, im wondering why they never included it past 1e? He certainly seems to be the ''Guy to Be''

The Burn-Mage Out was just so wonderfully pathetic. Every gaming group had that one guy that loved that archetype. Overall, he seemed kind of unpopular though.

You know, I'd forgotten, but looking at him last night, he has an insane number of spells (back when spell points were directly tied to your starting nuyen).


Which brings up a SR4 question: Do you use your starting or modified Magic attribute for determining max number of starting spells?

Magic rating has nothing to do with spells available at character creation. It is the highest of your spellcasting or ritual sorcery skill x2. Knowledge, it would seem, is power

luckily it's not tied to magic but to spellcasting (2x spellcasting or ritual spellcasting skill whichever is higher)

Ah, i remember those days.

My buddy of mine made a cyber-mage for a campaign. Sorcerer. Resources A, Magic B. Others didn't matter, the attributes just got bought up anyway. (I think it was Attributes C, skills D if i recall). Picked up a load of cyber/bio til Magic dropped to 2(which was a damn lot). Level 3 power focus, bound with 15 force points. Still had 35 force points to buy spells.

of course, back then, you had Expendable Fetish spells, so you could take some regular, force 4-5 spells not linked to fetishes just incase(say, heal, a combat spell like Mana Bolt or Mana Missile, and a stealth or detection spell) but then a load of force 2 and 3 spells linked to expendable fetishes. You then had mounds of spells, cyberware, and the only problem was the force 3 power focus...which could have a spell ground through it back then. Still, was a price to pay for that sort of insanity.

Ah, excellent! Thanks for the clarification. With any luck, I'll be able to post the Burned-Out Mage for critique by this afternoon.

Okay folks, here he is. If he passes muster, I'll add him to the previously mentioned Sample Character Project. So let's hear your thoughts, comments, concerns?

Burned-Out Mage (400 BP Total)
Version 2

Metatype: Human (0 BP)

Attributes (230 BP)
Bod: 3
Agi: 3 (4)
Rea: 3 (4)
Str: 3 (4)
Cha: 2
Int: 4
Log: 5 (6)
Wil: 5
Edg: 2
Ess: 4.15
Mag: 4 (2)
Ini: 7 (8) [2 passes]

Active Skills (92 BP)
Assensing: 1
Astral Combat: 1
Binding: 2
Computer: 1
Con: 2
Counterspelling: 2
Data Search: 1
Etiquette: 1
Perception: 1
Pistols: 2
Spellcasting: 5
Summoning: 4

Knowledge Skills (24 free) (0 BP)
Biotechnology: 2
Cybertechnology: 2
Magic Theory: 4
<campaign city> Gangs: 3
<campaign city> Safehouses: 3
<campaign city> Syndicates: 3
<campaign city> Talismongers: 3
English: N
Arabic: 2
Spanish: 2

Qualities (0 BP)
Magician
Geas (choose one)
Scorched

Spells (30 BP)
Analyze Device
Clairvoyance
Flamethrower
Heal
Influence
Levitate
Mana Barrier
Mana Bolt
Mind Probe
Stunball

Gear and Lifestyle (40 BP)
Nuyen: (800 unspent)
Lifestyle: Low (2 months)
Lined Coat (6/4)
Ruger Super Warhawk with Internal Smartlink, Quick Draw Holster, Speed Loaders [x4], EX-Explosive Ammo [x30]
Novatech Airware with Iris Orb OS, Sim Module, Subvocal Mic, Analyze (3), Browse (3), Command (3), Edit (3), Encrypt (3), Scan (3), Virtual Surround Music, Wall Space
Activesoft: [choose two] (3)
Activesoft: [choose two] (1)
Fake SIN (3)
Fake License: Ruger Super Warhawk (3)
Biomonitor
Medkit (6)
Antidote Patch (6)
Stimulant Patches (6) [x2]
Trauma Patch
Power Focus (1) [bonded]
Magical Lodge (4)

Cyberware (1.2 Ess, halved to .6)
Cybereyes (3) with Eye Recording Unit, Flare Compensation, Image Link, Low-Light, Smartlink, Vision Enhancement (3), Vision Magnification
Datajack
Skillwires (3)
Soundlink

Bioware (1.25 Ess)
Cerebral Booster (1)
Muscle Augmentation (1)
Muscle Toner (1)
Sleep Regulator
Synaptic Booster (1)

Contacts (8 BP)
Bartender (L2/C2)
Mr. Johnson (L2/C2)

Background
The Burned-Out Mage hasn't technically burned out, magically speaking, but he's lost a lot of his passion for the art. Always striving to better himself, he constantly fell short of his goals, always seeming to end up in second place, so to speak.

In an effort to get an edge on the competition, he turned to cyberware and bioware. Unfortunately, he went a little overboard and the extra implants have affected his magical abilities more than he'd originally expected. He has his edge alright, but he's not sure if it was worth it.

Tweaking the Character

• The most obvious way to alter the character is through his selection of activesofts.
• Adjusting his spell selection is another possibility.
• Add a 5 BP negative quality and a mentor spirit is another option.
• Elimnate Geas and 1 point of Magic.

Comments
When updating this AT to 4th edition, I decided to include a balanced mix of bioware and cyberware rather than go straight cyberware. The Essence cost of the original's wired reflexes and muscle replacement was a major concern, and one that bioware covered quite nicely. I always saw this guy need a big "overcompensating" hand cannon instead of his girlie little fichetti, so I went with the Ruger.
Version 2: Broke down the skill groups, added 2 more spells to max out his selection of those.

looks nice, though in my book burned out mages should have magic 1 and not 2
also charisma is rather high which i had reconned was a trait of the at.
Skillwise i don't really understand the electronics group or any of the groups you bought to be honest. The original was rather the opposite of the smooth talker and i personnaly would even have thought about making him uncouth.

My thinking (such as it is)...

Magic
I'm justify the extra point with Geas. You could eliminate both, if you want. But... he'd go from being a so-so magician to verging on useless under the current magic system. If you cast soemthing higher than your magic rating in SR1, you'd take physical drain, but you would still be casting at full force. In SR4, the best you can do is Magic x 2, so with a Magic of 1, the best you can manage is Force 2... With that extra point, you get Force 4, which isn't fantastic, but its still respectable.

Attributes
In general, characters in SR1 had terrible attributes thanks to the priority chart. Usually it wasn't an issue because you were rolling your skills more than anything. About the only time your rolled straight attribute was when you where resisting damage or drain. And since skills weren't limited by linked attributes like in SR3, people (that I knew) often neglected their attributes in favor of higher skills. So, yeah. I suppose could see dropping Cha to a 2.

Electronics Group
Its an unwired world. I thought at the very least he'd have Computer and Data Search. He's no hacker, not by a long shot, but he's not utterly clueless either. I suppose there's not much reason for him to have the Software and Hardware sub-skills. So, yeah, that could be split up.

Influence Group
This was something I wrestled with for a long time. In SR1 he actually had two seperate Etiquette skills (corp and street) at 2, so he wasn't socially retarded (not very slick, either). Etiquette also used to be the uber-skill, capable of doing just about anything you needed, socially speaking. Well, at least when it came to contacts anyway. I could easily see him with Etiquette, Negotiation, and Con... So, okay Leadership is a bit odd, but how many characters who take Influece should have that anyway? Probably not that many. If I broke it down, I'd have to go with Con (to convince people he's still a decent mage) and Etiquette.

And a general note: Holy crap! Activesofts are expensive!

Umm, because really, you get skillwires, wired reflexes, a commlink/datajack and a control rig and you are a rigger/hacker/street sam/face/medic/infitrator. Skillwires are just the way to go

Ok, i got the Troll and Elven Street Sams done! Before i start though:




There was a rather min-maxing reason behind ditching Attributes at the start in SR1-2. See, in 3 and 4, they made Attributes harder to raise; more expensive with Karma than skills. In the earlier games, the skills were the more expensive ones; to raise an Attribute you only had to pay it's new rating in Karma. So, for most players, since they weren't linked, they just ditched the Attributes down low, bought up alot of skills and gear, and then paid pithy karma to raise up the Attributes in game. You could start with all 2's in Physical attributes and for 9 karma(about two weeks) have them all at 3, and 12 karma later(maybe 3 weeks), have them all at 4, as opposed to over double that for skills.

Anyhow, onto the sample characters!

I did do some heavy modifying to them. Well, sort of heavy.

The Elf had a decent, if not small, skillset...but with Firearms as a group he didnt need much. He had maxed Firearms, Unarmed Combat and Stealth, but only Street Etiquette for a social skill, and a 2 Charisma, so he wasn't exactly captain smooth. Well, it's cool, that's what teams are for. He was pretty flimsy for a sam though. a 3 body with no modifications and a 2 willpower...by the look of it they were making a 'glass ninja with guns' out of him. I wasn't too fond of that and in my version beefed him up a couple of notches; but still kept with his outlook.

The Troll needed some serious love. He had a 2 Intelligence(ok, i suppose not bad for a more streetwise troll back in SR2), but a 1 Charisma and a 1 Willpower. Yes, a 1 willpower. I mean, i suppose if you want something for pure roleplaying but...that's a very character specific thing and shouldn't be for an archetype. ALL this guy could do was hit stuff. I mean, such was the Troll stereotype back then, but...didn't like it myself. A 1 willpower means that a mage can cast a Force 1 Mana DART at him, and with a few successes(not hard if he was aiming for a 2 or better), and probably kill him repeatedly. And with a 1 charisma and willpower and only Street Etiquette, he's a target for any sort of mind control and a puppy could intimidate him. So i did a big reworking. I did, however, stick with strictly cyberware, despite it being 'not as good', to keep a somewhat old-school feel to them. I didn't use the Cha x 2 contact houserule since these are 'sample guys', and i stuck with Availability, since not using it is just a houserule we have.

And sadly, since i don't have Augmentation yet...i have to sort of wing it with just the BBB. Luckily some of the stuff in the SSC sorta made it into the actual game so it's not too big a loss. Using too much of the fancy-pants stuff sorta takes away from the old-school feel of the original archetypes, though.

I'll do a little blurb on each on SR1-2 style too, along with a picture in my head of what i imagine the old-school art looking like. I also leave the Positive and Negative qualities open on sample characters, to maybe let the player choose.

Elven Street Samurai:



My Commentary:

Again, building him, i wanted to toughen him up considerably while still keeping with his lightning-quick design of the original; I think i did a good job. He's got really good combat skills and he's also rather stealthy; i saw him as the 'urban predator', so i wanted to give him a good Infiltration and some Shadowing in there. He's got enough social skills to take care of himself if the Face isn't in the room; he's not real charismatic when it comes to elves(i left it 3), but he doesn't do too badly. Being very perceptive was also part of his 'urban predator' feel. I wouldn't use him as a replacement face, however, and while he's stealthy, i don't think he'll be replacing the cover ops specialist; this guy's got about no technical skills and his Logic of 2 isn't letting him default easily. Well, he's got room to grow, at least. I kept him with the high Unarmed skill of the original, but with his high Strength and bone lacing, he fits the 'whirlwind of death' descriptor easily.


Ok, and now for the Troll...



My Commentary: I wanted to make this guy tough; both in body and spirit, hence his above average Willpower to help with shrugging off those spells. He's plenty strong, but i did leave his Strength at the natural rating, a 7 was enough for what i wanted to do with him. Again, he's got a wide array of skills, he can handle himself socially, he's got the whole Stealth group to help, and even a Demolitions skill; i sorta saw him as the really tough guy with the big guns. He's not as fast as the elf, but he does ok for himself. He's also not too electronically saavy, save for the Demolitions skill, which means he actually, with his decent Logic, has a chance of disarming them...and with an armored jacket and helmet, natural armor, and 10 base dice to resist damage, he could probably soak alot of the blast. I was thinking more tank-type for this guy, though he certainly is no slouch with his axe. His small skill in Unarmed(i might specialize him in Disarming), is incase he gets disarmed, a sam should be able to defend himself.

Their dice pools seem a little high(especially the elf), and i know that ive been reading alot of threads about 'shaving down dice pools'. Honestly, i don't see anything wrong with 13-15 DPs, if you have a character with a decent Agility and a Smartlink it's very easy to rack up the dice. Agility being high does a lot, since it's linked to so many skills. I don't think these guys are too unbalanced, though. This was actually fun.

Updated a slighty modified version of the Burned-Out Mage, basically just droppign the skill groups, picking up a coupel spells, blah blah blah.


@ElFenrir:
The Sammies look pretty good. I like that you stayed away from the bioware, good move.
You went a different route with the Troll than I might have, but he certainly works.
The Elf is just about spot on. I might have gone for Spurs or a monowhip or something instead of Bone Lacing, but that's really minor.
My major quibble is that I don't automatically assume that players are going to max out their negative qualities.

Ahh, thanks. With the Troll, i just never liked the archetype of ''big, dumb, super strong guy that beats on stuff''. I try to get away from it when possible. I don't mind making them big and tough, but i find it hard to believe someone with 1's in all of their Mental stats and no skills besides combat stays alive on the streets very long.

I like the idea of a tough elf for the same reasons. The monowhip is awesome, and it's stylish, and it does the job, but in all my time playing in the old days, i found it a bit overused, so that was why i went bone lacing instead.

As for the negative qualities, they are mutable. The player could do a bit of work if they wanted(say with the elf, ditch a point of Athletics Group, run with a 1, and get rid of 10 points of - qualities), but...i guess i sorta fell into the SR4 sample characters trap...i see quite many of them with 25-30 points of negative qualities. I'm not saying it's right(or wrong), and I don't even do it all the time(sometimes I use em all up, sometimes i don't even take any and buy positives out of the original pool)...but to get these guys where i saw them, i took the qualities.

EDIT: Ok, i managed to nix 10 points from each and give them a choice of -25 points of negative qualities. This way if they player wants to take more, they can; but they aren't forced too. At least with the Elf they get to pick a 5 point Positive quality(they might go for a martial art style if Arsenal is used.)

I nixed a point of Stealth Group for the Troll...he's got a 3 Intuition and 6 Agility. Now, he only rolls 4 dice instead of 5 with Shadowing and Disguise checks, but he still tosses 7 with Palming and Infiltration, which is still good. The Elf, likewise, i lowered Athletics Skill Group. With his high Strength and Agility, he won't have a problem; he throws 8 and 9 dice respectively, and still rolls 7 dice in his Gymnastics Dodge(and quite more if he goes full defense, he can add his melee skill onto that too.)

It's funny, but lowering the negative qualities made me feel even MORE min-maxy than taking them all. If that makes sense(i think because i was combing over the pages trying to find what would hurt the characters the least while staying in the vision).

I have to disagree on the Elf. I recall him being built around having skillwires, and skillwires make me warm and tingly...but yes, he is a decent badass.

He did have Skillwires. He had 3 maxed out skills(Firearms, Unarmed Combat, and Stealth), with...*checks SSC* a 3 in Street Etiquette, 1 Thrown Weapons, and a 2 bike. He had Skillwires 3 with some softs like Thrown Weapons, Rotor Aircraft, Demolitions, Car, and Japanese. I wouldn't call him build *around* skillsofts, a 6 in Unarmed, Stealth and Firearms were pretty hefty. Skillwires seemed to fill in his holes.

Now, i might sound like a heretic for saying this, but im not a big fan of the 'wires. There, i said it.

Im not debating their usefulness. They kick ass. And i wouldn't be against using them for certain concepts(if i played a former company man/former wage mage/former corp whatever, i'd most definately have them, as for a corp worker they make 110% sense). The elf very well could have been a former company man/troubleshooter type. But generally, im for natural skill level. I'd rather take some of the points i'd have used on the resources to purchase the Wires and Softs and buy some natural skills, even if they are lower. I'm happier seeing ''Athletics Group 1'' than i am 'Skillwires 3, and all the Athletics Skills at 3 on a chip''. it's just me. Im not sure *why* im not a big fan of them, to be honest. Again, for certain concepts i'd be rocking them.

EDIT: I do appreciate the comments though. And i know skillwires have alot of fans around here. Im just the weird one, not you guys.

I just died a little inside

I like the Burned-Out Mage. Good job. He fits in SR4.

I assure you, I am quite weird...or wired or something

Don't worry. You probably weren't the only one.


If i WERE to give him the skillwires(for the sake of it)

I'd ditch a point of Perception and the Con skill, giving 12 BP. I'd take 10 of that and dump it to Resources(along with the leftover he has...the total is written down somewhere), and pick up Skillwires 3.(using the other two for contacts or something.) This would drag him to .1 essence, and well, that's fine for a sam.

Then i could use the remaining nuyen(44,000 left from the fresh 50k and whatevr else) to pick up softs for Con, Negotation, Longarms, maybe Demolitions, and a vehicle skill, hell, even Armorer. If there is any nuyen left after that, then take your pick. Skillwires could actually break this guy. He'd be able to do about anything and probably not need half the party He's a little more balanced without 'em, he's got some hefty die pools as it is, and a smattering of good skills.

But just to make the wires folks not cry, that's what i'd do.

See the more current version of the Tribesman here.

You kept it really well i think. You left all his negative qualities open for customizing, and he starts with a solid Edge(important for totally organic characters, IMO.) Outdoors group fits him well and you even kept the old First Aid skill from his Biotech.

minor nitpicks: A couple math mistakes. He'd have 18 free knowledge skill points, not 21(3+3=6x3=18.), and his Initative is a 7, not an 8.

Other than that it's all tight. I like how you have Pilot Exotic(Riding Animals). I like the idea of horse-piloting.

He looks really good. I always did what I could to make him an Adept, but that's just my twinky side showing. A total norm is cool.

...I'll try and get to finishing the conversion of Lana Lane Cybersnoop tonight (been busy on the Daz/Renderosity sites as of late). Though the concept is kind of hosed in that some of the unique 'ware doesn't exist in 4th ed. The Dr Spot™ Eye Cam, Steady Cam, Transducer, and Signal Relay Link have been replaced with the "all encompassing" (and IMO all too vulnerable) commlink. I would imagine that signal piracy is a much larger issue in 2070 since transmission relay would no doubt be routed through the wireless matrix instead of the traditional carrier waves.

I'm really underwhelmed by the capabilities of the Tribesman. He is plain mediocre. It is a nice concept, but he doesn't really accomplish anything.

He has a DP of 5 for most outdoor related stuff and 5 for perception. He won't be hired as tracker.
He won't be hired as a gunman either, as he lacks the speed of a sam.

So what role does he play in a team, except costing nuyen?

Flavor

I really like what you did with the tribesman, especially that he stayed mundane (i would have minmaxed him into an adept )
Drawback is ofc that he's pretty sucky, but that was to be expected by a not enhanced mundane combat build; looking forward to the detective.
so to say it again i really like that build (and will never play it )

Well, the Tribesman was, in all honesty, an oddball character, even in SR1. He had great attributes (straight 5's iirc), some weird specialized skills, and he used a weapon that not many people were prepared to deal with (Impact armor was pretty "meh" in SR1).

As others have suggested, you could take some negative qualities and turn him into an Adept if you wanted. But that wasn't the point of the original, so I didn't do that.

There was one reason not to ditch your attributes in SR1:


So starting with 2 in charisma, meant that you could never ever increase it to more than 3.

In order to end up with straight 6's in all attributes, you would have to set attributes at priority 4, and dividing the 30 points equally over all 6, later increasing all attributes to 6 for 5 karma each.

This was changed in SR2 where raising attributes was in fact the best bang for your karma.

Lars

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
SR2, though, i remember alot better. SR1 i'm VERY hazy on.

Gah! Stupid monitor died Friday... Now that I'm finally cought back up on everything, here's the Detective. I'm a little disappointed on how he came out, so if you have suggestions on how to improve him, please let me know. I'll certainly take them into consideration.

Version 2 of the Detective is here