My appologies, I used the wrong term. The cyberware that I was refering to is the touchlink, which is what you have to have in order to use the skinlink at all. I will edit the post.

Ah, so it can still make calls, but if spotted by its emissions it can be hacked, like a hidden SSID Wi-fi can be detected by utilities like Netstumbler. Sounds like a good reason for a definite offswitch, and to run that way. And once you get into a hot zone, turn off your "phone" too so you can't be spotted by your emissions. Use a good Microtransceiver tac radio and maintain radio silence, or at least good discipline.

It seems feasible to me to have the *controls* of your tac-radio included in your skin-linked PAN, so an agent in your main commlink can use an Electronic Warfare Autosoft to help keep the tac radio stealthy, encrypted and burning through the jammers. The PAN wouldn't be accessible to the radio side of the tac-radio because that's just voice, and the PAN is effectively just being used to twiddle gain and frequency knobs... Effectively, encrpyted, agile frequency-hopping comms is uninterceptable, being largely indistinguishable from noise. It requires that the transceivers on the net get synchronised, though, to share keys and frequency-selection timetables.

It's going to be hypothetical maximum. I expect the technology has yet to fully mature and hence there'll be more loss to noise. I expect that there will be more loss to noise anyway; human biorhythms are not going to be optimised for transmission across the bodys electric field.

Ciryx, I was of the opinion that Touchlink was not a prerequisite for skinlink. One induces sensation in the neural pathways leading from the tactile sensors in the skin to the brain. The other is merely a different kind of transmitter.

10 MBps seems to be a little far fetched, but 230kbyte/sec seems to have been measured in tests O.o

This is incorrect. The Touch Link allows physical interaction with AR in the same way that a Sound Link enables audio interaction and an Image Link works with sight (all of which can be replaced with a Sim Module, IIRC). The Touch Link has absolutely nothing to do with a Skinlink.

So, a touch link is basically implanted AR Gloves / Force Feedback clothing?

Bah, I am an idiot. I gave the site a brief look over and took the post I quoted as though it were a marketing release. It's pretty damn cool, then. Just got to wait for the devices to get cheaper and me to get a bunch of cash for cool projects. Stuff will have to wait, unfortunately.

heh, wonder what that feels like?
will THAT TIME OF THE MONTH have any influence on it?
or being drunk?
or experiencing hangover?
what about static electricity i wonder *g*

Wow, I had always assumed that a touchlink was required to use skinlink, just like a datajack or trodes are required to use a cable connection. My logic for this was simply that since the device is basically outputing an AR connection, the body has no way to interpret this signal, something must be used to translate from computer code to something the brain can understand. Since the touchlink says it does just that, my logic lead me to believe a touchlink was required.

I noticed that there is pretty much NO information in BBB about how a skinlink works, so I guess it's up to GM call on how this happens. At that point we're leaving RAW, so we enter the world of opinion... of course, isn't that where this thread started?

EDIT: P.S. - I also figured that's where some of the abuse control came in... do you want to get the cyber needed or not? Mages, Adepts, and Techno's can't use it w/out taking a huge hit (unless they're already getting eyes or something, then this would be the perfect add on.) Street Sams and other heavy cyber users have to weigh the .1 essence cost (not a lot, I know, but for these types every 1/10th of a point counts) and see whether it's worth it or not for them.

You got it.

Of course, you are free to play the game the way you want, but we are discussing the canon rules (at least I am). I don't find the entry for Skinlink to be misleading or inadequate. I also don't see how you make the leap to assuming that a Touch Link is needed to utilize Skinlink technology when the book says absolutely nothing of the sort. One is not a prerequisite for the other according to canon. The two items do two separate things.

Skinlink does not allow DNI all on its own. All it does is facilitate communication between devices utilizing the skin (I believe this kind of tech exists today ... owned by Microsoft). If you modify a Datajack or Trode Net with Skinlink, then the DNI capabilities of that device can be used via Skinlink when communicating with other external devices.

Basically, Skinlink replaces a cable (or wireless). That's it. No more than that. It doesn't grant any other abilities whatsoever.

I really hope Unwired spends some time detailing how all these different input and output devices work individually and how they work together because I really don't feel like much of it is obvious. For example...

Skinlink's basic function was pretty obvious for me; it replaces the cable or wireless connection. What wasn't obvious was what items needed to have that modification. At first glance, you might assume, like I did, that only the commlink needs it, since its listed with the commlink accessories... I've heard people say that each separate item needs the upgrade and after looking at it, I think they're right. But where does it stop? What about your Cybereyes? Datajack? Etc. What does and doesn't need the skinlink mod?

The Touch Link was one that I honestly felt didn't have a good description. Until I managed to solve 2+2=? today, I just didn't get it. Now that I do get it, I'm wondering why we even need AR gloves, feedback clothing, Touch Link, image link, or anything along those lines when we have simsense?

Wouldn't a simsense module and a trode net be able to provide all the augmented reality info you might need? If simsense can make you see/feel a hot naked elven chick (or lusty ork mama, if you prefer) doing naughty things to you like you were really there, why can't it provide a basic AR display in your field of vision? RAS is needed for full VR, sure, but what about smartlinks? They're described as using simsense (see: Simsense Vertigo negative, a shadowtalker in Fields of Fire, etc.), right? So why not expand that sort of sensory input to include a simulated computer display?

-paws
The oft confused technoshaman

Internal stuff is already interconnected. Only a Datajack (or 'trode net) would need a skinlink modification in order to have the option of having all the implants linked to the skinlinked PAN. Alternately, if a person just wanted to skinlink their weapons and their implanted image link/smartlink, they could skinlink the Cybereyes, but this alone would not provide any DNI control over the PAN. That requires the aforementioned datajack or 'trode net.

yep, there is a lot of redundancy with datajack, trodes, and the AR glasses, gloves and implants.

i suspect a big pdf table may be a interesting tool for cleaning up this kind of stuff.

Don't remember where, but the SR4 book states that all implanted cyberware that isn't inert (like bone plating mods or something) has a build-in DNI. You don't need to skinlink 'ware to talk to it, so in this case you wouldn't need skinlinked eyes, necessarily. What skinlinking does do is let you skinlink a Datajack, and say, your commlink. This way you can "think" a command to the Datajack, which can now, thanks to skinlinking, relay that command to your commlink. Or a smartlinked weapon can relay what it sees and knows about itself (ammo counts, for instance) through the datajack and from there, onto your image linked eyes. This means that you can't get jammed and be prevented from using your PAN, if you skinlink everything you might need to use. Also means, and this is the biggest reason to do it IMO, everything is hands free! Or close to it at least, since if you just set up your commlink and gear in a way that they're always touching skin, you're good to go.

It can't totally obviate the need for wireless, since communications have to go through wireless. Hrmm, now there's a neat question...could two people with skinlinked comm's send data by holding hands? I'd say no, since the bioelectric fields are different...but I know jack about biology.

I never said you did. I said that in order for your implants to interact with external devices of your skinlinked PAN, there needs to be a skinlinked datajack or 'trode net to facilitate communication (and DNI) with those external devices. Pretty much exactly what you are saying in the rest of your post.

The comment about skinlinking cybereyes was for those people that do not want DNI control (and don't have a datajack or 'trode net), but still want to have their eyes interact with the weapon's skinlink.



As far as I know, this is very possible according to canon. It would work in the same manner as two people each plugging one end of a cable into their datajacks and communicating that way.

I'm reckoning that comms acn be handled by your microtransceiver. R6 tac radios are cheaper and easier to get hold of than R6 commlinks, and I reckon you could have their *control* circuits (volume, channel selection etc) skinlinked because you can't hack from the audio channel into the data.


I don't reckon skinlink has anything to do with bioelectric fields. It's more like controlled static electricity. So if your skins touch you can scan for a common channel and hookup same as you can via wireless.

Well, all I can say is one thing...

It's bloody useful to transfer the Paydata from a CommLink to the Troll's DataBoxers, which have had their Wireless Node burned out.

Noone's going to hack the Paydata then!

There's wrong and then there's wrong and then there's THIS!

(thick troll-ish voice) "Har har, its skinlinked baby! All ya gots ta do is touch it!"

now imagine what happens during sex . . data-theft? or spontanous creation of an AI?
screw ups due to packet-collisions? who knows what evil lurks in the heart of technology?

Jeeze, and I thought it was bad enough when it came time to give the Johnson the Paydata, "OK, Tiny, pants off." "Awwwwwwwwww..."

Especially static electricity has fields.
And technically, you don't want a solution that is based on the poor conductance of human skin and the need to keep a reliable contact. Just take a look what is neccesary for an EKG.

http://www.redtacton.com/en/info/index.html
we don't really have to speculate with this now do we? O.o

You try and draw an analogy... sheesh

Of course you don't want it based on *actual* static. That's why I said "like". If it was static, you'd not be able to use it when wet or holding onto anything grounded because it would ground out. And no, you're right you wouldn't want it to be based on skin conductivity. But it's entirely an artificial "field" (High freq ultra-low voltage) and nothing to do with your "bioelectricity".

We can't get *too* far into the realism, or our comms all gets Ultra-Wide Band and hacking signal suddenly becomes impossible.

It's a Skinlink m'kay. The magic of technology. The parts are made of handwavium and unobtanium.

All sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

It's not my "bioelectricity" - it's Seraph Kast's.

Have a cookie


Ew. I think. I don't fancy using someone else's bioelectricity...

(for the confused-by-banter, my "your" was a general, nonspecific "your" rather than a specific response to Rotbart... )

while we're at it . . what would happen to skinlink if you're shot at with taser/stick'n'shock etc?

at worst, some fried antennas imo...

Yay! a cookie!

The combination of simsense module and trode net is perfectly capable of handling all facets of AR Overlay: visual, audible, tactile and so on. The book even describes this as the "easiest and most common way" to experience AR.

The various link implants, while somewhat redundant, do have plausible reasons for being listed. Image Link, for example existed as an implant option before AR Overlay became so ubiquitous and would be a very flavorful implant for a character who's had cyber for a decade or two. Cybereyes and Cyberears have their respective links bundled free, so the descriptions for those link implants serve as supplemental information for the functionality of the cybersenses. While taste and smell are less frequently used in AR Overlay except in advertising, the Olfactory Booster and Taste Booster provide link functionality as an additional feature.

Then we get to the Touch Link Implant. Unlike the other links, it doesn't come free with a sense replacement or booster. And while haptics are useful and common in AR Overlay, the use of force feedback gloves or a simsense module would seem to be a much more sensible choice over an implant. Yet the book describes the implant being popular with a small, strange market segment.

There's a similar type of contemporary, real life, niche market for overpriced high-end audio equipment. Certain people will drop several grand on certain brands of speakers and cables, despite scientific double-blind testing that has shown that the playback produced by those is indistinguishable from more reasonably priced gear. The touchlink is the same idea, except for simsense of both the AR Overlay and Full Immersion varieties.

Finally, there's one interesting advantage for the especially paranoid. If you pipe your AR Overlay through link-type implants instead of a simsense module, you're immune to hackers and spamvertisers trying to manipulate your emotions via ASIST. The only way to get that immunity when using a sim module is to modify the hardware to permanently disable the emotive track outputs (because while you could toggle them off in software, if a hacker's gotten to a point where he's able to fuxxor your AR Overlay, it's trivial to toggle the emotive tracks back on). Of course, there's non-implant gear with link functionality that can provide the same immunity, but implants are much harder for the opposition to take away from you than external gear.

Of course a Touchlink tied to your PAN allows a hacker to torture you in ways unknown to mankind (yet).

But take comfort in the fact that any bad emotions you might feel because of that are entirely your own.

Unless, of course, it's a Black BTL that just got uploaded... Then those feelings might not be yours...

While many BTL chips do come with a simsense module built in, if you're just uploading the data from the chip into someone's commlink that you've hacked, and that commlink doesn't have its own simsense module, then those emotive tracks won't have any way to play back.

True.

That'll teach me to post before the first tea of the day.

Well, I know *I* don't.

I don't really have any kind of a networking background, but I don't see the problem with skinlinks. As far as transmitting data is concerned, you can do it IRL just by touching the plugs on a couple of audio cables--that's how I recorded this song: Shadowrun (Skinlink Mix)

Granted, it picked up some interference, but I was getting the same interference plugging in directly so I don't think the skinlink contributed much. (I had my power cords and computer equipment a little too close to my audio cables.)

As for how much data could be transmitted at once, well, the stereo signal blended into mono, so I'd say you're not going to get more than one distinct stream at a time, but there's a couple ways to deal with that.

...

I was going to post what those ways are, but then it occurred to me I should hold out in case I decide to patent this. After all, if a bunch of network techs on Dumpshock couldn't figure it out, I might really have something here...

Here's a science/RAW question. Do skinlinks work if you're wet/under water?

Now that would be a problem...

...come to think of it, how does SR handle waterproofing? Can you still frag your commlink by dropping it in the toilet like the cellphones of old? I don't recall seeing much on the subject in the books.

I think it's assumed that most things are waterproofed, my cellphone today is pretty resistant to taking a dip so I'd imagine commlinks are pretty much bullet proof.

Hmm, true--I do have a cellphone that survived a dip in the ocean. Funny, I always thought salt was corrosive.

only over a long time, or if the concentration is on the level of a acid...

as for static on skinlink, given that it will probably be digital there needs to be some interesting levels of static before it becomes a real issue imo.

the real problem with electronics in water today is short circuits. but as SR4 do not have emp rules for common electronics based on them being mostly optical based internally, i would say the same applies for taking a swim. as long as the power source is shielded, your good to go

so . . if someone with skinlink decides to go to the pool and there are other people with skinlink in there . . can he broadcast? O.o

Not really.

RAW states that electronics can generally take a bit of dirt or water before they fuck up, about an hour. Any more than that you need the Arsenal mod that shields your electronics from the environment. Only costs 100Y. It's generally a GM Fiat thing, though, no real rules.

One of the things I like about skinlink is hand-holding johnsons (Or any contact). You used to (in SR3) have to use a cable or eye laser system to talk securely with a johnson. But with skin link, you can do it by rubbing ankles under the table if you want.

Imagine, you walk into the bar. You tell the bartender you're looking for a lady and he points you to the femme fatale in the red dress. You walk directly to her, take her in your arms and exchange a long kiss. As you do, a voice pipes in over your DNI, "a Barrett 50 Cal and two boxes of ammo are at lockbox #2421 at Renton station. Nice doing business with you".

And that's exactly what makes the Electroshock Upgrade for Orthoskin so great.

Puts a new spin on sealing the deal with a handshake, doesn't it?

I was actually working on a character awhile back that was a Joyboy/Assassin with an internal comlink and skinlink. The idea was that he got it for his "day job", catering to a specific clientelle of classy, skinlinked corporate-types.

Y'know, the kind of people who can appreciate the luxury of discrete transactions, active biomonitoring, and the ability to whisper sweet nothings in your client's ear while your mouth is otherwise occupied.

new meaning on plug and play again O.o

Well, with a name like "skinlink", it's practically begging for "adult entertainment" applications...

Hey folks, what happens in the Shadows, STAYS in the Shadows!