My god... You're making a babushka grenade launcher...

glad to be of service *g*
and no, why should the GM care where you put that weapon, as long as you pay for it in slots and money? O.o
he may shake his head and wonder why you want a blade that points in your own general direction, but otherwise? ^^

that thing i had in mind would be several weapons in one single weapon . . HeavyPistol, SMG, Assault-Rifle, Knife, Pole-Arm and maybe some more *g*
and it breaks down into two or three components that can fit basically everywhere too!

as for the Grenade-Launcher with the under-Barrel Grenade-Launcher . . i am reminded of the Half-Elf who is also a Half-Elf in his other Half *g*

I am so using this on the "screamsheet" news handouts in my next game.

It's the Swiss Armoury Knife. Oh dear.

i like my things to be versatile and woth their money ^^
the more bang for the buck the better i says *g*
and if the samurai is meant to be the swiss-army-knife of the group, especially one with skill-wires, then i think his tools should match that too!

Now you're starting to sound like some of the more lunatic nerfer fringe there with their "guns bolted to guns" philosophy...

Examples here...

yeah so?
i think they are on the right way for some reason ^^
ok, that reason may be that i am an avid cyber/bio-combat-monster-troll-player *gg*
and look at the links i provided a little bit upthread . . tell me that would not be kinda sweet o.O

what's a "screamsheet" ?

http://pl.shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Screamsheet

Yeah, that.

By the time SR4 rolls around (2070), I expect to see them distributed by subscription on electronic paper. Go to the local NEWS!NEWS!NEWS! vendomachine, get your electronic paper (complete with NEWS!NEWS!NEWS! logo and themes), use it to buy a subscription that's good for a month, week, or whatever. Or get a direct feed to your commlink and save the cost of the electronic paper.

How I described them: "...zooming through the storybook Emerald City that was the virtual landscape of Seattle, the news stands that represented the screamsheets looking like they were carved out of a single piece of jade, the worker there a munchkin in a fancy outfit." From Chapter 3 of "Debt of Non-Blood".

Only Submachine guns and assault rifles can get this cool little upgrade.

I honestly think they are a hold over from a previous age before people noticed that electronic publishing had curb stomped conventional publishing while we were looking the other way. However, I have every reason to expect that blogging will have been totally superseded by something else. Maybe something to do with tags, community collobration, crowdsourcing and something else? Amateur reporting about current events is likely to be seriously common whatever the format. Remember, everyone a full sensory camera (their commlink) which they have to carry around by law (their SIN) so pretty much any major even that people could see is going to have a barrage of on the scene footage and simsense.

If yo're not tech venterous enough for that though, blogs are likely to have pretty much completely replaced 'screamsheets' with even lower quality journalism by this time.

OK, this is only tenuously useful, but I saw it for the first time today at Half-Price Books and had to share as a companion to the goofy combi-weapons I linked to earlier (especially since they included the katar in Arsenal).

Katar/Flintlock combo

dumb design, barrels should be on the flat side of the blade, closer together . . also the trigger is placed in such a stupid way that you more or less involountarly pull both of them just trying to actually hold the weapon steady . .
to be in the realm of shadowrun again: Laser-Sniper/MP-Laser with under barrel weapon ares redline?
that even possible?

I think it's intended to be so, so that when you stab somebody, both of the barrels go off and shoot them, too, without any seperate effort.

probably, but they are too far apart i'd say . . and them being on the broad side of the blade would give the whole construction a little bit more stability too . . AND the guns would benefit from the damage the blade did a little bit *g*

Gun/melee mod:

"Sakura Blossom Katar"

The Sakura blossom Katar is a katar with the barrels of a sakura fubuki running along the top and the bottom of the forearm guards. The grip of the Katar is modified slightly to allow for normal pistol aiming without compromising the natural use of the katar. The Sakura Fibuki was chosen because of it's lack of complicated moving parts or clips, making it more resistant to the shocks of melee combat, and easier to trigger. The guns are operated by smartlink alone, with no trigger, and the smartlink is modified with a special pilot program that allows it to fire automatically when the user strikes a solid melee blow.

Katar: Two "underbarrel" weapons, both Sakura Fubukis. This takes all 6 slots.

Each Fubuki is modded with smartlink, electronic firing, trigger removal, pilot upgrade rating 6 with gunnery and clearsight autosofts, extended clip, gas vent 2,and melee hardening. This takes 6 slots.

I ruled that the electronic firing is already included in the Sabuki do to the description and the cost of the weapon, but the only difference that makes is in the cost and how many slots you have left to further mod the guns. I also ruled that the "folding stock" can be built into the katar, providing that 1 recoil comp.

The pilot program normally holds it's action until the characters action, and either does one of two things. First, when one sakura is fired, the second one will aim at the same target and fire as well. Second and far more fun, when the character strikes someone in melee combat, both guns will immediately let loose with a burst. These shots benifit from point blank shot rules, but suffer from the firing in melee penalty, for a total of -1 to the dice pool. However, the target suffers the standard penalties to defense against multiple attacks. Like any instance of firing multiple weapons, uncompensated recoil penalties are doubled, but with 3 (4 with the stock) points of recoil comp, this probably won't be an issue.

Sakura blossom Katars are typically used in pairs. A character who strikes an opponent with both katars simultaneously will trigger 4 narrow bursts at the target, in addition to the normal damage. The defender will have a -1 penalty to the first katar strike, -2 to the second, and -2, -3, -4 and -5 to the bursts. In this case, any uncompensated recoil penalty would be quadrupled, making recoil comp very, very important.

now THAT one actually sounds feasible . . shame on you! *g*

Note for the Pilot program/drone to hit it has to use the Sensor Test rules on page 162. Smartgun links have yet to have acquired a sensor rating.

Which is a Sensor + Clearsight Perception Test.
To Target a Target is:
Targeting is Gunnery + Sensor
Targets Signature modifiers are also applied as a dice pool modifier.

So having the Pilot engage a target is 6 dice for the pilot rating but no dice for the sensors so you have 6 dice minus 3 dice for metahumans/critters from the Signature Table. So the net dice for the Pilot to roll is 3 dice, not a very good chance to hit most targets.

Also if you designing a weapon the 6 slot rule does not apply. Modifying the 6 slots do apply.

WMS

I figured it as an after market mod, not a full design. Pilot upgrade specifically states that it has a sensor of 1, on Arsenal p. 152. I know it has to use the sensor rules on p. 162, but I think you are misapplying them.

Sensor targeting is optional. Either you substitute sensor for pilot, or you take the vehicle equivalent to take aim, making a sensor test to add dice to hit on later gunnery checks. Heck, you can actually let the sucker try to lock onto a target with sensor targeting for extra dice. Maybe it's got the spare initiative pass. But you don't have to. All that the drone really needs to do is see the target to shoot it, meaning it needs to make a generic sensor check.

This check is sensor+pilot+clearsight autosoft. A -3 penalty for metahumans does apply. other modifiers may apply, but they'd be sensor modifiers and not normal perception modifiers. Given a pilot of 6, a sensor of 1, and a clearsoft of 4, we're looking at a dice pool of 8, enough to buy two successes. Unless the target is actively trying to hide, we only need 1 hit. So basically, unless we're dealing with a situation that calls for perception checks from the character anyway, or sensor jamming, we don't need to worry about the drone's sensors. It can buy the hit required.

Heck, given the different modifiers that apply to perception checks and sensor checks, there will be times the gun can see opponents and the character cannot. Not to mention the capacity of 3 for holding additional sensors (bbb p. 325, handlheld/minidrone in the table). Also functions as an endoscope, hold it around your cover and let the pilot do the rest.

As for a pilot has for a sensor rating....your gun is basically a Drone. Drones use the Sensor Targeting Rules.

So if I have a Doberman Drone that is trying the same firing task, it get all the extra dice to roll to hit?...No it is a Drone so it uses the systems that drones use to percieve, and target a target.

Note the section in parentheses under sensor perception test. ....To detect a person, critter, or vehicle with sensors, the character/vehicle must make a successful Sensor + Perception Test (Sensor + Clearsight autosoft in the Case of Drones).

Seems to me you are misapplying the above from those rules. You get Sensor + Perception OR Sensor + Clearsoft, not a mix of the two.

If you are using the Sensor Targeting rules for a drone only the Signature Table dice mods apply, exception being a jammer. You do not mix and match visual dms and signature table dms for targeting. As of right now Sensor Targeting uses basically RADAR until the much promised Errata for Sensors ever comes into publication.

WMS

Issue 1: can it see?





OK, I don't know if I'm playing loose or what, but since it states that the clearsoft is an improvement over normal pilot, and because it states that you roll sensor + clearsoft for ALL sensor tests, I've always assumed/played it that you subsitute sensor + clearsight for sensor in any sensor test, be it seeing or targeting. Otherwise it's not an improvement at all, the average drone pilot being better than most clearsight programs. If I'm wrong about this, the dice pool drops from 8 to 4, still enough to buy one hit. Again, if the opponent isn't trying to hide, one hit is all I need.

And yeah, part of my point is that regular vision modifiers don't effect this. Unless there is a jammer around, nothing does.

Onto shooting:





Pretty cut and dried. You don't have to use sensor targeting if you don't want to, and drones use their pilot + targeting autosoft to attack unless they choose to use one of the other methods instead.

Yes you first have to see the intended target. But for this test the target gets a chance to evade detection which can and will reduce your number of successes. Most targets will be using/attempting to avoid being seen/detected, unless your game is different than most here.

Clearsofts are limited at this time to rating 4. But most Rating 4+ Pilots can not be bought in character generation, the availability is over a 12. From what I have seen in game play it is a rating 4 pilot with a rating 4 clearsoft.

WMS

I've never had a person currently engaged in melee combat actively trying to hide at the same time. Further more, the rulebook says "if the target is trying to evade detection." This means that they don't make an infiltration roll just because I'm attempting to see them. They have to be actively trying to sneak beforehand. Which means my character is in the same boat as my gun, they need to make a perception test. There are many times a person is not currently making an infiltration check. Combat is typically one of those times.


Still leaves the problem that I just spent 2000 nuyen on a clearsoft that functions just as well as a rating 4 pilot. That's comparable to the cost of upgrading a rating 3 pilot to rating 4.

This isn't just a problem for the gun-katars and other auto-guns. The interpretation of the rules you are putting forward here practically prevents any drone from engaging a metahuman target, ever. Tell me, can an unmodified Nissan Doberman ever detect and shoot a person? It has 1 less die than my gun does for the same test. I guess, as a runner, I'd be relieved to know that none of the security drones are capable of hitting me.

Could someone comment explicitly on PlatonicPimp's question. The same thing struck me reading the rules, although I could not find a reasonable resolution.



But, as was observed, Clearsight is unlikely to be better than Pilot. If we simply substitute Sensor + Clearsight for Sensor + Pilot, the drone works no better, and possibly worses, than it did before.

Is PlatonicPimp's conclusion that one should substitute Sensor + Clearsight for Sensor in the test the right reading? It makes for odd English.

Thank you,
Joel Halpern

just mount a sensor on the blade then you don't have a problem also I think its hard to hide form a blade stuck in you if the blade knows its stuck in something.

For a stock drone to hit a metahuman/critter will require a bit of luck. Most drones I have seen in game play have had a rigger type in full VR mode to hit metahuman/critter.

I would be simpler to just have the weapon fire when a certain point on the blade reached, you could incorporate a contact to arm the weapon.

WMS

Pilots only go up to rating 4, while autosofts can go up to 6, n'est pas?

A couple of questions:
So Clearsight is only useful if it is at a grade higher than the Pilot? Then why would the GM-Nissan Doberman which has Pilot 3 also come with a Clearsight 3 (and Target 3).
Also, presumably Clearsight (like all software) is limited by the Response / System of the drone. Which at least by the BBB would seem to be the same as the Pilot? Sure, you could upgrade the Response. But the Pilot IS the OS (System) for the Drone.

So it seems that the BBB thinks that Clearsight is useful even when it does not exceed Pilot,
And a reasonable reading is that the Pilot is the System, so the Autosofts should not be able to exceed it.

Yours,
Joel Halpern

RAW page 321
Pilots up to Rating 6
Autosofts (Rating 1-4)

WMS

Perhaps if this requires further discussion, we should move it to a different thread. In the mean time, I will simply state that the guns on my katars are as good or better at hitting their target than the standard security drone, and leave it at that. I still say that getting two additional point blank attacks on top of the melee attack is fun, fun, fun.

I find a cheap Recoil comp system is a lanyard and a foregrip. Sure, there's better RC, but it's so CHEAP. And you could afford an internal smartlink mod (or hopefully it's already in the weapon).

The best example of this would be the Ingram Smartgun X. It's already got 2 (3) RC, so you throw on a cheap lanyard and a foregrip and you've got 4 (5) Recoil compensation, with a +2 DP Smartlink, and a silencer. Not elaborate, but cheap and effective.