The groups I've played in haven't ever gotten into the looting.

A snazzy gun here, a monowhip there (those things are expensive and hard to find!), some security armor, a couple cyberdecks, the occasional focus, and vehicles, of course. I guess if there was one thing we really went nuts on it was the vehicles. Man, our runners have stolen a bunch of vehicles...

As for organ legging and cyber-harvesting... we had a couple characters that were into that, but as a general rule, we avoided it.

-paws

Hey, GTAing a vehicle for a fast, or improved, getaway is traditional in more than just movies!

Even the cops do it!

hrm . . i would try to get radar/ultra-sound-vision modded so they work as a low grade cyber-ware-scanner . .
"duude! . . Move By Wire 3 Delta!"

We had a mage back in SR3 doing this while scooting around in the astral.

First of all, I think it's ok, if the runners take what they can get. For example, if you had a little shoot-out in a C-Zone with the local gang, it's not really a bad idea to take some guns that are lying around before leaving the crime scene quickly to avoid getting arrested. Of course, there are some dangers, for example if you take the guns from security guards, you risk that there's a bug that can give away your location. If the runners have time, they can also strip the guard and take the brand-new security west, etc.

Selling flesh will not bring much money, imho. Ghouls don't have much money, so they'll normaly simply hunt. And it's more secure for them to have a little buisness with an undertaker, who can easily let corpses meant for burning "vanish" without anyone noticing. If the runners have good connections to a ghoul community, ok, that's another thing, then they can deliever a corpse or two to them... But how many runners have the kind of connection?

Connections will be the problem with organs and cyberware, too. IF you've got the skill and equipment, you can get the cyberware out, but without the right connection you won't be able to sell it. Throwing a ripped off cyberarm on your fixer's desk will get you a new job as a desk-cleaner, but no money And of course it will probably ruin your rep, if you start selling your enemies corpses... I don't think that many people will buy used organs from strange sources... Cloned organs are much more secure, if you can afford it. And if you can't afford it, there's not much profit to make for people who sell corpses

i know why i think of magic as spooky <.< . .

most of my characters have such connections . . and wasn't there one official run where you had to take a cyberarm from some troll?

Heh. I ran a game once where the runners had to steal some used cybereyes from a clinic, before the victim's last sights could be downloaded from them.

I think collecting specific body parts, as evidence of a job done or whatever, is a fairly common circumstance.

It is another matter when your whole team of runners are scary sociopaths, exhibiting no qualms in killing anyone they meet.

We're talking about shadowrunners, anyone wanting to stay in business better be a sociopath. I don't think my chars would want to run with anyone who values an (innocent) life over security. But this gets OT.

Shadowrunners, check your conscience at the door as you put on your body armour.

I haven’t read through all the post, but with my brief GMing experience, I realize NPC’s need to eat and buy clothes. For the SINless (and some SINners), they would be carrying around credsticks in their pockets. So if my PC’s do loot, I’ll throw in a couple cred sticks with a low nuyen amount (50-100+).

Honestly, even with the Wireless Matrix, lots of folks would carry CredSticks around still. If nothing else, just to tap the Bum that's hassling them to get him/her/it out of their face.

As well, you're not about to use a CommLink Transfer for those Vory JoyGirl Ivanna's, are you?

Bodies are waste products for Shadowrunners. They're going to make corpses anyway so they might as well dispose of them in a way that makes money. Think about it this way, everybody poops. When you have to poop, you have three choices. You can squat down right where you stand no matter where you are and leave it there, you can find the nearest toilet, or you can poop into a stamped addressed box and mail it to an organic fertilizer company that will pay you a relatively small sum of money for it. Fiscally, the third option makes the most sense because no matter how small the profit is you aren't actually expending any capital on the product. There are situations where it would be safer and more efficient leave your poop where it lands, of course, but there are also situations where you risk nothing by saving it and selling it.

Tanamous' entire business model is based upon collecting corpses and reselling them peicemeal. They have an infrastructure large enough to benefit from economies of scale and is perfectly happy to get bodies from whomever they can. Likewise, the government of Asamundo doesn't ask questions and is sitting on a diamond mine.

There comes a point where the amount of profit that you can make out of something is not worth the hassle of doing it. To use your example; if you plan on selling your poop to a fertiliser company you have to carry around a postage box full of poop until you find a postal box to mail it. How much would you want to be paid to carry around your poop for an unspecified period? I'm betting it's more than a few dollars.

As far as runners being sociopaths, there are points where it gets silly. An example: Runner Joe is thirsty. Runner Joe has no cred. Runner Joe pulls out his gun, shoots Grandma Smith in the face, hocks her body to the Tamanous and buys a soda.

Most runners I've seen use non-lethal methods for preference to limit escalation. If the opposition escalates things they're perfectly happy to pull out the big guns, but what is going to accrue more attention, prototype stolen or prototype stolen, all the guards and researchers cut to pieces and the facility obliterated?

As long as he clears enough nuyen to pay for the bullet and the soda, I see no problem with this.

On topic, we loot in games to some extent. When I GM, I provide appropriate equipment for the encounter to the NPCs and arrange things to allow players to loot or not if they choose. The only time we've ever run into Organlegging was when the Street Sam (a PC) was banged up bad in a car crash/gunfight and had managed to piss off everyone in .5 seconds of meeting him. We decided he wasn't worth our cred, so we hocked him.

Thing is, with your typical Street Sami, is that really organlegging, or is that selling for scrap metal?

Whatever it is, that run netted some cred.

My point is that if your runners are murdering someone every time they get thirsty, they're not really going to be capable of functioning in normal society, where shooting at people because you're thirsty is not the done thing.

Let's see... They probably live in the Barrens (Hardly civilized society), working for people known only by aliases, doing jobs that require death, destruction, mayhem, theft, and other anti-social acts, and being paid with money that does not show up in any official ledgers.

You just described every Shadowrunner around, Chummer. None are going to fit into normal society. They have ESCHEWED normal society for their chosen way of life!

Even the ones that don't off Little Jimmy for Q-Cola money.

Hmmm, kinda reminds me of the time we were playing Star Wars D6 (WEG). A fairly new party and one player (who was the largest prick in our gaming group) was playing an undercover bounty hunter while the rest of us were playing smugglers, pirates, thieves and brigands. We were on a small illigitimate mining colony/pirates' nest and this dufus manages to contact the Empire and bring them to our doorstep. After stunning him in a hall after a shootout, we decided to let the local civilian populace know exactly who he was and left any decision about what to do with him up to them. The last we saw of this character was him being shoved into an airlock screaming "But, I am really on your side....." Whooosh!

We took his ship and his gear (which we ended up blowing up spectacularly to fake our own deaths and to keep the Empire from pursuing us specifically anymore.) The player held a grudge for quite a bit, but interestingly enough, his new character blended a lot more into the party dynamic.

Vlad

I have a few players who are big looters, so I really have to be careful what I let them take. I just KNOW that my players would try to loot every weapon in an entire Ares manufacturing plant if they had the time, going out of their way as far as stealing a few 18-wheelers and trying to drive out in them. That's just silly.

That said, I definitely don't have a problem with looting, so long as it's reasonable. If you're alone in a storage room with the fresh corpse of some guy that was shooting at you, go ahead and check his pockets for cred and take his weapon. If you're especially cold, scoop out his cybereye with your combat knife and pocket the bloody mess.

Conversely if you're in a room with -ten- guys you've just wasted, all (previously) armed with Ares Alphas, don't even think about trying to drag them all with you. Unless you've previously come across an NPC gang-leader who specifically said he'd pay top nuyen for any assault rifles he could get his hands on, a runner would NOT do that.

I suppose my usual rule of thumb is: if the number of corpses is manageable, and there is no immediate threat to the runner, he can take whatever he can carry without bogging himself down. Stuff his pockets or a duffel bag, hold something in his off-hand; as long as his weapon hand is free to do more killin'.

A great example would be in the video at www.shadowrunmovie.com when the hacker searches the body of the adept he just killed, and ends up leaving her monofilament whip because he knows he'd just kill himself with it, but he takes her katana since she chopped his pistol in half with the aforementioned whip.

To be honest, this could be an awesome cover to get out. Seriously, when they can get away with it, find a good fence for it and all that without being tracked down, I would not mind my players doing this.

That is a great example. That character was in survival mode, rather than looting mode. He just wanted to find something - anything - that he could use to fight with.

Still... that monowhip was soooo small, he could have easily pocketed it if he'd been thinking about it.

(Reminds me I need to finish watching that movie sometime.)

-paws

I agree. Looting on a scale like that doesn't derail an adventure- it becomes an adventure in and of itself. Stealing a truck full of Great Dragon ATGMs or Fairlight Excalibur's (for you SR3 fans) isn't looting- thats a heist!!

I agree with your statements about looting in general. It's fine and expected.. jstu be smart about it. If you are on the run, don't be trying to lug 10 Alphas along. Shoulder one, grab a good selection of ammo and move on.

But, I CRINGED in that shadowrun fan movie at that point. (I actually rather liked it overall!) Any self-respecting 'Runner I know would have pocketed that monowhip. You know how hard those are to come by? It's worth some serious nuyen on the street. And even though you might not know how to use it as a weapon, it is a very powerful "tool" that can be used carefully, and may save your life while you are on the run. It's like so many movies where the hero is outgunned and being chased. He's got one pistol with half a mag of ammo left, jsut killed 3 or 4 baddies, has a half minute to collect his wits... and runs off without taking a couple of the deaders' loaded pistols or more ammo or that Uzi! Takes me right out of my suspension of disbelief everytime!

Vlad

You loot when you can and if you can't well... then you can't. To many variables and too many situations. Generally if your team is actually payed well (see braking into cars and selling them) then after the first few runs your team does selling all those guns and hot items are chicken feed. After a while the only things we really like taking or high grade comlinks, specialty items, foci, fetishes (basically anything magic,) sometimes cyberware. Generally a lot of bioware and some cyberware are custom tailored to the user (well at least the gear thats worth anything,) so it's mainly useless.

What our team always knows is to loot the mage. Most of what they carry can't be tracked after the mage is killed, and magical items sell for quite a lot of money. Art is a pink elephant, and the black market although tempting can get you set up and or killed. There is too many risky factors, but selling magic is always promising.

typically the way I deal with organlegging at least is to assume that any profits are taken by whoever you're selling the body to. The runners don't see any of that money. What they get instead is body disposal. Saves trying to hide a body or dispose of it themselves and if there is some particularly nice ware in it they might see a bit of cash but no where near what it's worth.

Probably the best way to handle it.

Certainly would keep certain players characters from being to tempted to start supplying bodies to the 'leggers so they can afford another couple nights at the coffin hotel.

Or you could just take a Ghoul as a contact...

Yeah, in my last campaign for example the teams street doc contact had connections with the Disassemblers so if the players ever had an inconvenient corpse taking up trunk space and making a mess of the good tarp they could dump him out side Doc-Holiday's back door and have it dealt with no questions asked. He'd take anyone off their hands, even if there wasn't anything worthwhile in body and would give them a discount on medical services if they brought him something particularly nice.

Once for example the street sam wanted a Beta Move By Wire system that was far beyond his ability to afford. They dumped a random body at the docs and the next day the Sam got a call from him. It turned out the body was a Type O' and worth a small fortune. Holiday offered to implant a used set of MBW II that he managed to get his hands on for a significant discount. The sam got his wires and I had a convenient way to give them to him without leaving the rest of the group swimming in cash.

So going with the basis that you can have whatever Knowledge skills you can think of, I'm gonna take Cyber-surgery as someone said they had, Bio-sanitation, and Smelting.

We'll see if the GM allows that. lol

I'm wondering though, would you be able to just attach a new RFID tag to weapons and gear to sell them, or would you specifically HAVE to fence them with someone?

You might also think of using a solution of HF
It ultimately dissolves bones!

Cybersurgery would be a specialization of Medicine (i.e. Implant Surgery), which is an active skill. If you want a non-active skill that encompasses knowledge about cyberware it would probably be Cybertechnology or Cybernetic Theory.

Ahh ok, I see.

The BBB just says that knowledge skills are limited by your own imagination, which can be pretty active sometimes.

Yes indeed. But unfortunately they do have to be firmly in the realm of "knowledge". Personally I miss the complementary skill rules from SR3, but thats another thread...

Oh I definitely agree with you on taking the monowhip. I would've taken it too, especially since he was already HOLDING it. I was more focused on the fact that he didn't strip her, take her shoes, body suit, and lunch money, and pull out a MAD scanner to see if she had any valuable cyber.

QFT

But then again, I miss all my obscene SR3 dice pools

Good Sir! Messrs Breughel and Mahler take umbrage at your crass characterization of their chosen avocation. They would like you to know they provide a much needed and valuable service (valuable certainly to one Ms. Florence of Nightingale's Body Bank) within the community by maintaining a reduced number of certain undesirable fringe elements that would otherwise clog the streets of our fair metropolis. Please be advised that further disparaging comments concerning the moral turpitude of the gentlemen in question will be considered an actionable offense and will be met with suitable measures.

lol!

I assign Kingboy massive intertube points for tying in Max Headroom. I miss that show.

Me too. I wish they'd release the damn thing on DVD already. As far as I'm concerned it's sort of required veiwing for all good little cyberpunks out there, and I'd like to not have to rely on my...er vhs collection anymore to show it to people.

If I don't find AMMO then what the hell were they shooting at me with?

Mind bullets, obviously.

From many guns, floating around you, following your murder thoughts?

...

*Pulls out recorder* "Title for song, Murderthoughtgun."

I hereby donate some of my vast accrued intartube points for the Transmet reference.

And for combining it with DethKlok?

I can only take Deyhklok for about two minutes at a time, so I must admit I missed that bit...

All hail transmet! I want Warren Ellis brain in a jar so I can abuse my players with him.

I think I've said this before...

All I know is that if I let one of my players be a Magician, they'd create a "Disrupt Bowels" spell, with the Force allowing for different effects.

But then no one would want to go through the guy's pants afterwards for loot...

That's easy, force 5 conjures it's own sieve.

Or Sterilise...

OK, we've gotten into big discussions about boosting AmeriCars, and I just finished watching what could be a Shadowrun movie.

The Original "Gone in 60 Seconds", and I can see a Fixer or Johnson contracting a Shadowteam with a few Boosters in it to get a large collection of cars just like in that movie (Or the recent remake).

Now I'm starting to get more ideas...