Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: OK, I'm ready to bind a force 12 spirit.
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Da9iel
@Muspellshiemr Channeling would be useful for a possession tradition conjurer. I hadn't thought of the longer physical track. Thank you.

@Shiloh Committing suicide alone is certainly an option.

@Rasumichin "Boni" is covered about half way down. It's been linked in this forum before, but yes, it is false. As a rule of thumb, if adding an "s" or "es" sounds good, it's right, and it's probably wrong to try something else.

@Kazum re: longer summons. I'm not sure how a plane would work but traveling is probably easier anyway. It's been covered in the faq that N of the arctic circle/S of the antarctic circle = long term summoned spirits (thank you crizh). The conjurer could heal up from the summoning drain and try to bind any force she was crazy enough to try. On the other hand, if the conjurer wants to try this with an ally, there's no rest period between summoning and binding anyway.

@masterofm Let's say that our conjurer is scrupulously kind to her spirits. They are her bread and butter. I'm still not sure that an she would be safe from an uncontrolled spirit. Knowing the GM, it's certainly not worth the risk if reasonable and unoffensive precautions can be taken. PS Thank you for the build advice, but our silly little elf girl is already built. She's apparently done that math. I'm researching damage control after the fact.

@crizh A spirit can go where the summoner has been. Binding requires a successful summoning first. The spirit will have a lock on the location of the conjurer above ground. The deep hole still wouldn't work even if it was shallow enough to not be a remote service and the GM said our suicide girl could conjure it into the hole. Which leads to Skip's mention of hiding. You have to get away and hide first. It's not going to work. Jaid mentioned binding materials. They are physical objects requiring physical presence.
In regards to this thing going free . . . I pray the GM doesn't choose this path. I don't remember SR4 making any note of going free when it talks about uncontrolled spirits, but free spirits are mostly covered in SM. What is the difference between a free spirit and a merely uncontrolled spirit? Might any uncontrolled spirit choose to go free after a botched or fatal binding? Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
crizh
QUOTE (Da9iel @ Sep 3 2008, 08:36 AM) *
@crizh A spirit can go where the summoner has been. Binding requires a successful summoning first. The spirit will have a lock on the location of the conjurer above ground. The deep hole still wouldn't work even if it was shallow enough to not be a remote service and the GM said our suicide girl could conjure it into the hole. Which leads to Skip's mention of hiding. You have to get away and hide first. It's not going to work. Jaid mentioned binding materials. They are physical objects requiring physical presence.
In regards to this thing going free . . . I pray the GM doesn't choose this path. I don't remember SR4 making any note of going free when it talks about uncontrolled spirits, but free spirits are mostly covered in SM. What is the difference between a free spirit and a merely uncontrolled spirit? Might any uncontrolled spirit choose to go free after a botched or fatal binding? Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?


A Spirit can go where its Summoner is but the Summoner must expend a service. Can't think why I'd do that, can you?

It's up to the GM but any Uncontrolled Spirit, usually above Force 6, can have a chance of going Free.

It's an Edge(2) test with net hits adding to it's starting Edge of 1. Once it's Free Disrupting it isn't good enough, it'll be back in less than a month. You either need it's Truename or there is an even more difficult Banishing Test to keep it Banished.
Shiloh
QUOTE (Da9iel @ Sep 3 2008, 08:36 AM) *
...PS Thank you for the build advice, but our silly little elf girl is already built. She's apparently done that math. I'm researching damage control after the fact...


Depending on what she's trying to summon up, it might be worth popping some rounds in her bonce before she tries it. I wouldn't put it past some spirits to capture/enslave an importunate summoner and make them watch as they hunted down their former friends, even if you had nothing to do with the summoning.
Ravor
Shiloh brings up a good point, even if you let your summoner ice herself alone you aren't safe. Why does she want a ( Force 12 ) monster anyways?
darthmord
QUOTE (Jaid @ Sep 1 2008, 12:25 AM) *
20 drain will probably mean unconsciousness and therefore potentially berserking spirit, even if you have 12+ magic to convert it to stun (and a whole lot of physical overflow, most likely).

you would need to have something to keep you conscious long enough to send the spirit back to the metaplanes or you're still pretty much gonna die =P


Well, if you have a sufficiently high enough Body & Willpower along with that 12+ Magic, you really should opt for a Pain Editor. Yes it is a hit to the mojo but the bennies are quite significant to a summoner. Pass out from drain? Really? Not gonna happen with Pain Editor.

Then you also have the Trauma Damper which can work its magic (assuming it still works in SR4 like it used to in SR2). Can't forget about Attribute spells that raise your Body, Willpower, & Drain attribute.

Think about it. All you need is an active Pain Editor and enough hits to ensure you have at least 1 box of Physical left after taking the drain.
crizh
I think that by the time you have a Magic of 12 (unless your a Nosferatu...) this whole discussion is moot. Combat with Force 12 spirits is going to be just another day at the office....
Tarantula
QUOTE (Ravor @ Sep 3 2008, 06:44 AM) *
Shiloh brings up a good point, even if you let your summoner ice herself alone you aren't safe. Why does she want a ( Force 12 ) monster anyways?


How aren't you safe? I rather doubt the spirit would hold and torture the summoner just to get her friends who had nothing to do with the summoning or binding of the spirit. Even if it did, how does it know who her friends are, unless it learns mind probe or something, its kinda at her whim still. She could tell it the landlord is her best friend, and boom, no more landlord. Tell it a lonestar detective she got arrested once was her buddy from high school, and boom, suddenly lonestar is hunting down this spirit too.
masterofm
It gets 24 dice for judge intent.... I think it will know when you are lying to it.
Ravor
Tarantula you are talking about a living Mana Field that is almost as smart as a Great Dragon who is very likely to have the Search Power, and thanks to the mental link all it has to do is get the poor slitch to think about her team to be able to find them.

If I were on her team I wouldn't want to take the chance that the spirit wouldn't decide to make an example of everyone the Mage even remotely cares about.
Tarantula
And you'd let it use that with no penalty? When it probably deals with metahumans as seldomly as possible? Why would it be able to call you on lying?

Besides, most shadowrunners don't really care terribly about their team. Not as much as say, family. So why would the spirit go after the team again? Who had nothing to do with its summoning or binding?
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Da9iel @ Sep 3 2008, 09:36 AM) *
@Rasumichin "Boni" is covered about half way down. It's been linked in this forum before, but yes, it is false. As a rule of thumb, if adding an "s" or "es" sounds good, it's right, and it's probably wrong to try something else.

over here, in germany, boni is actually considered to be the correct plural of bonus O.o
Ravor
Considering that the spirit in question is either a powerful and ancient being with wisdom of the ages OR a living Mana Field that is formed in part by the Mage's own mind you bet your ass it can use it's nearly Great Dragon IQ to interact with metahumanity as it sees fit.

*Edit*

AS for why it would burn the team, because most Mages who are crazy enough to try such a stupid stunt in the first place are going to be more intune with the happenings of the Shadows then some newscast. Of course said the lives of the Mages family are forfit as well if the Spirit is inclined to be vengeful.
Rasumichin
QUOTE (Da9iel @ Sep 3 2008, 08:36 AM) *
@Rasumichin "Boni" is covered about half way down. It's been linked in this forum before, but yes, it is false. As a rule of thumb, if adding an "s" or "es" sounds good, it's right, and it's probably wrong to try something else.


I stand corrected.

@ Stahlseele : yes, it is a widespread plural form in German, which is why i used it in the first place.
I looked it up in Duden vol. 5 (that's the one for loan words) after reading the linked article and it lists Boni only as an alternative plural, with the standard forms being Bonusse and even the standard English plural Bonusses (which sounds kinda out of place if it appears within a German sentence), as it is indeed an English loan word with Latin origins, not one that was borrowed from latin correctly.
From a prescriptive point of view, it would be incorrect.

I'm now going to hit the entire academic community in Germany over the head with my thesaurus.

But before that :

QUOTE
In regards to this thing going free . . . I pray the GM doesn't choose this path. I don't remember SR4 making any note of going free when it talks about uncontrolled spirits, but free spirits are mostly covered in SM. What is the difference between a free spirit and a merely uncontrolled spirit? Might any uncontrolled spirit choose to go free after a botched or fatal binding? Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?


There are rules in Street Magic (p. 105 the German edition, at the beginning of the free spirits chapter), which come down to the fact that it is certainly possible that this thing will go free.

If you don't want to leave the decision up to GM fiat, you roll an Edge (3) test for the spirit.
If it succeeds, it goes free and gets an Edge attribute of 1, increased by 1 for each net success.
Modify by -4 for unbound spirits and by +2 if the spirit has an intense or noteworthy relationship to metahumanity.
In the latter case, the spirit can use Edge for the test.
Shiloh
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 3 2008, 04:12 PM) *
And you'd let it use that with no penalty? When it probably deals with metahumans as seldomly as possible? Why would it be able to call you on lying?

Besides, most shadowrunners don't really care terribly about their team. Not as much as say, family. So why would the spirit go after the team again? Who had nothing to do with its summoning or binding?


You're assuming that the spirit is driven by pragmatic motives. Who knows what the spirit will want to do? I'm sure that the Tradition of the Conjurer and the status of the relationship between the Conjurer and her teammates (which seems likely to be close, since one teammember at least is prepared to consider significant effort to rescue the madwoman from her own folly) will be able to shed some light on what the likely behaviour of the failed-to-be-bound spirit will be, but we don't have that info. At the moment, we're talking about "damage control" and I merely offered the possibility for consideration that prevention may be better than cure.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Ravor @ Sep 3 2008, 09:31 AM) *
Considering that the spirit in question is either a powerful and ancient being with wisdom of the ages OR a living Mana Field that is formed in part by the Mage's own mind you bet your ass it can use it's nearly Great Dragon IQ to interact with metahumanity as it sees fit.

*Edit*

AS for why it would burn the team, because most Mages who are crazy enough to try such a stupid stunt in the first place are going to be more intune with the happenings of the Shadows then some newscast. Of course said the lives of the Mages family are forfit as well if the Spirit is inclined to be vengeful.


Again, why wouldn't it just horribly slaughter the summoner, and possibly his family? Why kill his team? Is it going to also kill the clerk he buys his soybucks every morning from? How about that nextdoor neighbor who loaned him sugar that one time? What makes the team any better for killing that any other schmoe?
Ravor
QUOTE (Ravor)
AS for why it would burn the team, because most Mages who are crazy enough to try such a stupid stunt in the first place are going to be more intune with the happenings of the Shadows then some newscast.
Boldface Added...
Tarantula
And that means what exactly?

Great, you mage is "intune with the happenings of the Shadows". What motivation is this to the spirit to mess with the mage's team, who had nothing to do with the summoning or binding, and if they're teammates with a mage who can summon a force 12 spirit, might be able to defend themselves?
Ravor
It means that if the spirit wants to send a message to other half-scans about the perils of summoning vengeful Gods into this world killing the mage's team, fixer, talismonger, ect is an excellant way to get the message across. As for being able to defend themselves ... bah ... a being with nearly Great Dragon IQ is not likely to engauge in "hulk smash", it is going to track down and ambush the team on it's own terms, and in a world of eggshells with sledgehammers that will lead to a dead team rather quickly.

As for defending themselves, hells, this thread has shown that even if the Runners are the one's doing to ambushing taking down a ( Force 12 ) Godling is tricky, imagine for a moment if the spirit got to pick the battlefield, ect...

Best just to geek the fragging slitch beforehand.
Tarantula
And why would it want to do that? Whether or not it slaughters a whole pile of people won't ensure it won't get summoned again. It knows that.
Jaid
ok, first off, if the spirit goes free or uncontrolled, there is no mental link to the summoner anymore. so it isn't going to track anyone or anything by it's link to the summoner.

secondly, if the team had absolutely nothing to do with the summoning then how does it help to 'make an example' of them. if the team is not there helping, the spirit should not care. otherwise, as has been said, it may as well just go and kill random people. unless the spirit has a reason to hate metahumanity as a whole, it's not going to start chasing down people and killing them for no good reason. in all probability, it will have far better things to do than chasing down people it has absolutely no reason to care about.

now if the team had agreed to assist the summoning in some way, that's another thing. but why on earth would the spirit (witch, as has been noted many times, has a very high logic attribute) be dumb enough to punish people for *not* helping in the effort to bind it?
Rasumichin
If the spirit goes free, it will most likely leave an imprint on the site of its summoning that can be used to deduce its true name.
We don't know about the spirit's motivation, but we can be relatively certain it wouldn't want that, right?


So, what would be the best way to avoid this?

First of all, it should find out if anybody else knows about the plans to summon a Force 12 spirit and might visit the site of the ritual.
If not advised explicitly against this, it might have already used its mental link to this end as soon as it was summoned, to take precautions for the case that the pesky mortal screws up the binding ritual.

Then, it would be best if it can hide all links to the ritual site and to itself, making it as hard as possible for anyone to find the place of its liberation.

Killing people the mage knew would only make sense if this would decrease the spirit's chance of enslavement- and in many cases, it wouldn't serve this end.
Ravor
I disagree Jaid, the stories of a ( Force 12 ) Spirit wiping out everyone who works with any mage foolish enough to try to summon it will help ensure that the next mage who tells his team that he is going to try to summon a ( Force 12 ) Godling gets enlighted to the dangers of doing so thanks to a Predator IV and the new hole in his head. And the Spirit is smart enough to realize it.

As for the mental link being broken when the spirit becomes uncontroled/free, hmm, perhaps, although that isn't the way I play it, RAW seems cloudy on the issue unless I've missed something.
Tarantula
Uhh, and why does this spirit care about that ones summoning? Its not like they're just chilling in the metaplanes with each other. Most likely, he'd realize that just like himself, the other spirit can whoopass the team who summoned him on his own.

Again, just because it wipes out some of the mages buddies, doesn't mean anything. The spirit knows it won't stop idiots from trying, and the spirit also knows it could just go about its business instead of risking a fight with some people who weren't even involved with it.

Why again, should it go after that team, instead of after any mage powerful enough to summon a force 12 spirit. That'd stop it from happening, if that was the goal. Killing the mage that summoned it would too. Killing the team? Doesn't do jack shit, especially if the rest of the team isn't magical.
crizh
QUOTE (Jaid @ Sep 3 2008, 06:35 PM) *
there is no mental link to the summoner anymore. so it isn't going to track anyone or anything by it's link to the summoner.


When did this link become some sort of irresistible Mind Probe?

Did I miss a meeting?
Ravor
The spirit may or may not care, but you are wrong if you think that a sammy won't be more invested in making sure that the mage he runs with doesn't try something stupid like summoning a Godling if he has heard stories about what happens to the teams of such mages.
Ravor
crizh it isn't but a ( Force 12 ) Spirit that doesn't simply kill it's summoner outright has plently of ways to get the offending mage to think about her team.
Tarantula
Except, why does the spirit give a damn? He isn't going to be the one being summoned. So why should he bother trying to stop it?
Jaid
QUOTE (Ravor @ Sep 3 2008, 02:03 PM) *
I disagree Jaid, the stories of a ( Force 12 ) Spirit wiping out everyone who works with any mage foolish enough to try to summon it will help ensure that the next mage who tells his team that he is going to try to summon a ( Force 12 ) Godling gets enlighted to the dangers of doing so thanks to a Predator IV and the new hole in his head. And the Spirit is smart enough to realize it.

As for the mental link being broken when the spirit becomes uncontroled/free, hmm, perhaps, although that isn't the way I play it, RAW seems cloudy on the issue unless I've missed something.


right. because we all know that your average street samurai can tell the difference when the team mage starts babbling on about summoning and binding a powerful spirit, and can tell exactly how strong the spirit is going to be just by listening to what the magician says. i mean, really, what street samurai *doesn't* have magic background skills at rating 6 (or higher!) [/sarcasm]

the group evidently ditched the magician and told him he's on his own. going after the magician's associates is not going to make them want to kill the mage (given he's a powerful mage and an extremely useful person to have around), it's going to make them want to be at a place where they know they can ambush the spirit if it gets out of control. like, oh, i don't know, how about the place the spirit is summoned? it's not like magicians who are even capable of *trying* to bind force 12 spirits grow on trees and can be readily replaced you know. someone who actually expects to have some chance of binding a force 12 spirit? that's rare. you don't just put out an ad in the paper for that. this person is probably one of the top conjurers in the world. they are not replaceable. so given a choice between not getting involved (and apparently being hunted down for their non-involvement) or getting involved (and getting to be the ambusher instead of the ambushee) or killing their irreplaceable magician and permanently tarnishing their reputation in the shadows, which one do you think they're going to choose?

there are too many ways someone could act, unless you know them, how are you going to guess which one? the spirit doesn't know these people, it doesn't know the people who are associates of the next magician who might try to bind a force 12 spirit, it's not going to just assume that people will take a certain course of action when that isn't something that can even be known.
crizh
QUOTE (Ravor @ Sep 3 2008, 07:23 PM) *
crizh it isn't but a ( Force 12 ) Spirit that doesn't simply kill it's summoner outright has plently of ways to get the offending mage to think about her team.


And?

So?

What?

I reiterate, mental link not Mind Probe.

It could torture the Mage, if it had the relevant skill, and force her to Telepathically reveal information.

Of course she could just speak and no mental link would be required.....

I'm not sure how many GM's allow Intimidation to affect PC's.
Shiloh
Well, this has devolved into arguing about something regarding which there is no data.

We do not know what the Spirit being summoned is.

We therefore do not know what its motivations might be.

We do not know what the relationship between the Runners and the Conjuror is.

So we can't really discuss what the extremely powerful, extremely clever being is going to want to do.

I can conceive of Spirits that would hunt down everyone the Mage cared for as revenge on the Mage, regardless of any self-preservation considerations. I don't know what the Conjuror is trying to summon, so I can't argue for it. But if the others in the team don't know either, they might assume the worst. She might have gone Toxic and be about to call up something that will wreak havoc in the metro area. How are they to know?

An uncontrolled Spirit might even leave the Mage alive: if Spirits *are* Mage-created manifestations of Astral "stuf" then this Spirit will cease to exist if its summoner dies and it returns to the Astral. There might be a strong need to continue existing. But I'd say the Mage was obviously suicidal, so perhaps that might not pertain.
kzt
QUOTE (crizh @ Sep 3 2008, 12:44 AM) *
A Spirit can go where its Summoner is but the Summoner must expend a service. Can't think why I'd do that, can you?

No, the "service" is to make it do something it doesn't want to do (and it's a game balance mechanic). It's perfectly capable of doing all the things that "require expending a service" at any time it feels like it. Being really, really angry and wanting to make an abstract painting using your brains as paint is a pretty good reason it might feel like it.
The Jopp
Whenever a spirit is becoming uncontrolled i would roll a dice because there is nothing that says that uncontrolled spirits becomes violent…

How do we know that the spirit doesn’t WANT to be summoned?
How do we know that the spirit dislike the mage regardless?
How do we know the spirit is violent to begin with?

I can see several instances where the very command to hurt someone might be anathema to a spirit but they have to follow order.

The spirit might just pat him on the head and say “To-De-Loo� and leave.

The WORST case scenario would more likely be if the mage have been abusive repeatedly towards spirit so that he has a reputation among them.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Sep 4 2008, 08:02 AM) *
Whenever a spirit is becoming uncontrolled i would roll a dice because there is nothing that says that uncontrolled spirits becomes violent…


By RAW
QUOTE (BBB pg 180)
Most uncontrolled spirits will attack the
magician who attempted to bind it, attempting
to kill him. This is especially true of higher
force spirits


For referance here is the whole side bar
[ Spoiler ]
Tarantula
So what I said was totally RAW. Go kill the mage, and possibly anything else alive in the area, but not hunt down the mages team and kill them, even though they were miles away and had nothing to do with it.
Skip
Yes ... but if the spirit goes free .... well if I were GMing something like that, I'd say that the spirit has a good chance of figuring out who help the mage and making them pay. Your game may be different, but a force 12 spirit is not something to be triffled with IMHO.
Jaid
so what you're saying is, you're in favor of arbitrarily killing off the rest of the team because one player decided to try and do something dangerous on his own? remind me to never play in a game you GM for.
darthmord
Heh, if I was summoning a Force 12 Spirit and going to Bind it, you had better believe I'm going to have my odds stacked so heavily in my favor that failure will basically only occur on a glitch/critical glitch.

But the spirits through the various editions have generally reserved their ire toward the foolish mages trying to summon them. The only time there would be collateral damage would be if the mage's friends tried to intervene.

But for some pointers on how to do this sort of stuff, read up on the Ally threads. One had gotten to the point where you could have a Force 24 or 32 Ally spirit.
Skip
QUOTE (Jaid @ Sep 4 2008, 12:21 PM) *
so what you're saying is, you're in favor of arbitrarily killing off the rest of the team because one player decided to try and do something dangerous on his own? remind me to never play in a game you GM for.

No, I said the spirt would be mad at anyone that helped the mage when he tried to bind the spirit. So if you did a few runs with the guy, you'd probably be off the hook. If you helped him gather materials for the summoning, then took off, yeah, I think the spirit would hold you culpable. Mind you, the mage is geeked either way; the other people are targets only if the spirit goes free. If it returns to the metaplanes then the others are off the hook.

If this is one lone mage with a bad idea, have the GM tell him or her "No!" If they insist, let them kill themself, and let the other runners loudly disavow ever knowing the mage - that was an option I suggested after all.
Jaid
ah. so then you're saying that the spirit is in fact omniscient, and can instantly wrest from the very universe the names of all those who in some way participated in it's binding no matter how indirectly, or when they did it, or what part they played. yup, still don't want to play in a game where you're the GM. by your logic, people with the enchanting skill should be randomly assaulted by high force free spirits on a regular basis, just because they were in some way involved with the process that led to a mage attempting to bind that spirit.
kzt
It's twice as bright as a bright human, and at least 50% smarter more than the smartest human that has ever lived. Ever deal with someone who is always one step ahead of you? This would worse than that. It's really smart, really hard to kill and really powerful. It's not to be trifled with.
Tarantula
QUOTE (kzt @ Sep 4 2008, 12:05 PM) *
It's twice as bright as a bright human, and at least 50% smarter more than the smartest human that has ever lived. Ever deal with someone who is always one step ahead of you? This would worse than that. It's really smart, really hard to kill and really powerful. It's not to be trifled with.


Except, how is it supposed to know who enchanted the binding materials? Why would it go after the landlord who rented the warehouse space for him to use to summon it in? Would it go after the people who built the building too? What about the mage's parents, if they didn't have the mage as a kid, it wouldn't have tried to bind him. And so on.


The spirit does not know anything about our world when its summoned into it. It can probably some things out pretty quick, but how is it going to track who the mage bought the binding materials from? It can't use the computer, and has no idea how. So, it can a) torture the mage for info and hope its right. Or b) just kill the bastard and go on doing what he wants to do. I've yet to hear a good reason as to how and why a spirit could go after teamates etc.
Ravor
Simple, it did not want to be summoned and wants to make sure that the fates of anyone connected to the foolish mage are only spoken of in hushed whispers. Never said it was the most likely possiblity, but it is one that the rest of the team damn well should be considering when their mage starts talking about summoning Godlings.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Ravor @ Sep 4 2008, 12:08 PM) *
Simple, it did not want to be summoned and wants to make sure that the fates of anyone connected to the foolish mage are only spoken of in hushed whispers. Never said it was the most likely possiblity, but it is one that the rest of the team damn well should be considering when their mage starts talking about summoning Godlings.


Anyone connected eh? So, yes, family, landlord, enchanter, shadowrunning team, fixers, contacts, and so on? And how again is it supposed to find all this out? It can't use a computer, and unless it has mind probe as a spell, I rather doubt the mage would tell it.
Dumori
QUOTE (kzt @ Sep 4 2008, 07:05 PM) *
It's twice as bright as a bright human, and at least 50% smarter more than the smartest human that has ever lived. Ever deal with someone who is always one step ahead of you? This would worse than that. It's really smart, really hard to kill and really powerful. It's not to be trifled with.

Really 50% smarter than the brightest human? raicelmax of 8 (exceptional attribute and gen-mod) then adept powers or cerible boosters and a augmented max of 12 so its as smart as a very smart human adept. The adpet only needs to by magic 2 (with the bio wear) as well. So if I made that runner I could know every thing on earth just by existing or thinking about it???
Ravor
Depends on how far the spiriit wanted to go, but yes, that is a possibility, although family, friends, and teammates should have the most to worry about.

As for how the spirit finds stuff out, probably the same way that a Great Dragon would figure these things out with the added bonus of being able to use the search power to track you down, either this Godling is an ancient being who has the wisdom of the ages or it is a living mana field created from the mage's own mind.
Tarantula
QUOTE (Ravor @ Sep 4 2008, 01:23 PM) *
Depends on how far the spiriit wanted to go, but yes, that is a possibility, although family, friends, and teammates should have the most to worry about.

As for how the spirit finds stuff out, probably the same way that a Great Dragon would figure these things out with the added bonus of being able to use the search power to track you down, either this Godling is an ancient being who has the wisdom of the ages or it is a living mana field created from the mage's own mind.


Not all spirits have search.

Great dragons have contacts, and resources in this world. The spirit wouldn't. No access to computers, no minions or underlings who do what it says, hell, it doesn't even know what the matrix is. It doesn't have the wisdom of the ages, just a 12 rating in the attribute. It wouldn't know how to ask someone to find something, and if the mage didn't give up any names, what the hell would it have to go on?

Even with search, it needs to have seen the people before. So that won't work, considering it can't user a computer to pull up a picture of them. Again, HOW would it go about tracking all these people down, much less finding out who they are?
Dumori
If it just the stats then can I play that human computer in you games? You know his high stats mean he can just know things with out doing any leg work and such. Sorry but I just don't get how a force 12 spirit can magically know all it needs. Sure it can work things out but its no godling Harlequin is well over 60 magic he likely has stronger spirits than force 12. Great dragons don't just go "hum... some runner screwed me over who where they?" then suddenly know what they look like. They study thing at the place where they where screwed over then ask people how know more about stuff to tell them what things mean. Then put the pices together. Now how will a spirit do that quickly? Or with out ringing some bells. The runner will using there much better world knowledge hire a team of mages to cast mana static at it while a spotter/sniper has a gun readly to blow it to bits as soon as its weakened. Plus a rampaging spirit will get other people after it if it goes on to kill people slightly linked I will leave on hell of a trail. Likely it will get put down by Lonestar mages before it finds the runners. If not it will kill them and well then bigger powers will go after it after all that their job.
Skip
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 4 2008, 03:55 PM) *
Not all spirits have search.

Great dragons have contacts, and resources in this world. The spirit wouldn't. No access to computers, no minions or underlings who do what it says, hell, it doesn't even know what the matrix is. It doesn't have the wisdom of the ages, just a 12 rating in the attribute. It wouldn't know how to ask someone to find something, and if the mage didn't give up any names, what the hell would it have to go on?

Even with search, it needs to have seen the people before. So that won't work, considering it can't user a computer to pull up a picture of them. Again, HOW would it go about tracking all these people down, much less finding out who they are?


As a free spirit, it would have the ability to interact with the world. Gather resources, find people and things, and hunt the people it holds responsible down slowly - just like a dragon or corp would. I'm not saying it happens every time. I'm not saying every spirit that breaks his binding becomes a free spirit. I am saying, as a GM, if my players want the big rewards, they need to be able to handle the risks. Besides, having a recuring bad guy with obtuse motives is such a great hook. devil.gif
Dumori
True but killing the party cos one player was silly is not fair nor is it sensible that it would maigicly kill them in a week. sure over time it might hunt them down or it might find something else to do and whsi to thank its summomor of bringing it to the world.

Uncontrolled it would be violent but as a free spirit its out look could change.
crizh
QUOTE (Dumori @ Sep 4 2008, 09:26 PM) *
True but killing the party cos one player was silly is not fair nor is it sensible that it would maigicly kill them in a week. sure over time it might hunt them down or it might find something else to do and whsi to thank its summomor of bringing it to the world.

Uncontrolled it would be violent but as a free spirit its out look could change.


[tongue in cheek]

Stop feeding the Troll, you've got work to do!

Back to GM'ing, mush, mush...

[/tongue in cheek]
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012