Europe files needs an update




GOOD, sometimes being wrong can be right!




Mi associo.




Now I need the definition of normal.




IE are (mostly) fraggers! Human Nation? Any reference?




Sadly my cesso...ehm comuter can't handle STALKER but I got what you mean. In Arsenal there's a big (VERY BIG) drone that was said to be used during the reclamation of the SOX, don't know the extention of said reclamation though.



SK eaten Proteus?




Is it so? I bet they love the 6th world!

wasn't germany more or less one of the first nations to use wireless matrix?
can't be that bad with new technology . . especially concidering the german cyberware, more than one meta race having their own territories and the richest and mow most powerfull dragon in the world basically owning the german corp of all . . hamburg declaring independence . . well, if you look at us today, there's no big surprise there *g*
and as for dwarven something somethings . . there was the dwarven underground kingdom of hwaldos too . . yeah so it was only in a novel, i don't care <.< . .

Dear Europe,

Next time, don't send Puritans.

Love,
Aaron

*snickers* ^^

You guys still don't know where to put them? Hint: You have a space program

My problem being that pretty much every damn book in the past ten years or more has had extra material included in the German version. It's fucking irritating.

Only marginally. I have never been overly bothered by the 'Germany has all that and more' syndrome, as the country is still part of the world available for my use. I am much more concerned by the continuing trend to publish extra material that I, as a willing consumer, cannot access effectively.

For what I can recall the first city (or more precisely sprawl) to have the wireless matrix was neo-Tokyo (Shadows of Asia), than there was experimental zones near Celedyr and I bet in scandinavia too. Lets face it Wirless Matrix Initiative didn't include the golden wyrm and most of european grid was spared from the crash due to a certain kill-switch; other places (probably) had the priority.

At least now with Pegasus as new German publisher we have word that German extras are ok'd by CGL and might be published in english later. As for Germany-only books, I guess it's a question of market demand.

But understandable. Most Germans in the "gamer" age range understand English more or less well so a German publisher has to offer some incentive to make the people buy the German translations instead of the (usually cheaper) English original.

The Situation is, that most of the German Players speak English and can or are actually playing with the English books. So the German Publisher as to put some extra content in the book to get the people buying it, if they already have the English Version. (and considering we are at least one year past CGL in the release schedule: no Emergence, Augmentation, Unwired, Runners Companion, Ghost Cartels and Corporate Enclaves so far and Arsenal 2070 release was the first book after 1,5 years)

If you want to have the content, maybe some of you should make some fan translations (e.g. Hamburg Chapter form the German Runner Haven or German Munich sourcebook or German SOX sourcebook). We did the same with some untranslated English books in the past (e.g. Shadows over North America was translated by fans).

Moreover you should be glad, that Pegasus, the German publisher, has stated, that they will only make changes to the translated books, that a arranged with Peter. For example: the new equipment in Arsenal 2070 were designed in English first, and as Peter has stated, it will be published in English in the future.

cya
Tycho

Not quite.
Pegasus will not publish any material in pdf format, nor will they themselves publish material translated into English. But they're of course coordinating translations and German language additions with CGL, so potentially German language material could be translated and released for the international audience as well (with CGL testing the water with the new e-books and all).

Hinted at in SoE, while the full story is in a German-only novel.


Arcologies were built, many powered by nuclear reactors. In the new SOX source/campaign book, one of these reactors blew and wasted decades of reclaimation.


Opps, badly formulated. Proteus, as such, as a plot point, like in the splended but German-only Shockwaves campaign.


Europe files?


No, that was Japan, in shadows of Asia.

They also got their own dwarf metavariant, the Querx. Hint: They're blue-skinned and have stubby tails.


Understandably, but if the ebooks idea pays off, you might see it translated, as others have said. Originally, however, this was pure marketing to entice Germans to buy more costly German books. Of course, much of the extra content, you could also just do without. I really doupt you'd ever need the shadows of every minor city laid out as detailedly as they were in DidS2. I sure don't.

By the way, this translations idea does also encompass the French-only stuff, like the alternative SOX campaign, Marseilles, and such, right?

On an editorial note: Some of the stuff from Digital Grimoire - psionics, shadow spirits - are from a formerly German-only book called Brennpunkt - ADL (Target - AGS). I do hope they also used the fantastic artwork by Scherwinski. So there, you propably will get the extr German stuff after all.

Actually, all the book says is that their skin has a "blueish tone"*. And there's nothing about "tails" in the book - don't know where you got that from.

* Which isn't even something new - the Japanese Oni ork metavariant is described as having a number of brightly colorful skin tones, inkluding blue and orange.


I, on the contrary, would love more information about more cities! Then again, my favorite location sourcebook ever is Cyberpunk 2020's "Night City Sourcebook" that contains a rundown of interesting locations, NPCs and plot hooks for every single city block of NC's city core...
Compared to that book every SR location book so far has been incredibly shallow.

That's a bit to detailed for my tastes. that way, you get in trouble as soon as you leave the premises of your one group where you shot Snotty Old Harry, whereas he is the important fixer contact opf a character from a different campaign. I like some freedom for GMs to develop their own stuff in a setting, and am more for outlines and hot spot type locales. Ultra-detailed stuff like NCSB is fun to read, but hell to run anything in.

And frankly, with Germany and it's abundance of small towns, I really don't see any pressing need for the Shadows of Brunsbuettel, Pfortzheim, Garmisch-Patenkirchen, Memmingen-Schwenningen or Ludwigsfelde. I'd really like more details on locales in the UCAS, CAS (CAS in general, it's like a huge black hole of information there) and more exotic places.

Ah well, cannot argue about taste.

Re tails: I think they were mentioned in DIDS2, or one of the adventures. Fairly sure I read about them somewhere though.

And non-german-speaking people like me get the shaft.





Errare umanum est, perseverare diabolicum.





See above.





I just said that the old world needs a new sourcebook.





......sudden change in reciver department

I too would like more info about what changed around the world. I would also like some "historical campaigns" that explain some changes happened betwen the crash and emergence, for exemple "San Francisco's Fandango", ergo "how were Saito's ass kicked out of SF", a book that describes the stuggle that freed the CFS, the involvment of the Ares, the various 'run, and how things affected the various factions involved. Maybe even the scenario from Year of the Comet mess all the way to after the liberation, the resistence, the politics, tensions racial tensions, the struggle for survival, the various points of view; even if you know how the story goes it can be a great experince.

Maybe I should make a Wishlist thread. What you think?

Yes, basically. I'd wish they'd translate the Heintz novels, because they're actually pretty good, but there's something about licensing that will prohibit this, for all I know. Sorry guys.


Indeed.

I have the Fanpro translation on my hard drive right now. It's not particularly "German-only". If I recall correctly it was freely available on BattleCorps.

You can find an officially translated summary of the campaign on shadowrun4.com.

Really? Okay, the better for you guys, because this heavily ties in with SoE.

I've never even heard about a 'translation'. I've read the summary, if that is what you are referring to. If not, I'd be quite interested in seeing a complete, unabridged translation of the entire adventure.

The problem only comes up if you're running two parallel campaigns - and if you can do that, you should consider yourself lucky and don't complain.

Might have been that summary you mentioned. I have not read through much of it, given that I'm not all that motivated to read SR3 material in general. I assumed that the preamble describing Proteus was background material for a compaign or something and it was presented to me as a full translation by the person who gave me the heads-up about it.

Well, judging from the reaction on the racial pix of RC in German forums and Pegasus' policy to put in new artwork "where it is needed" I'd say yes, I think that there will be new artwork for the SR races and – for me – that would be enough reason to wait for German RC (or rather: to buy it again, as I needed to have the ruiles on shapechangers right away, as one character in my group is one ).

What I can say for ALL German books is that every single one of them will have "extra content" relating to the ADL setting, if applicable. To what extend, no one knows yet. One could speculate that Pegasus will expand on the "ogre" metatype perhaps, as it is stated that this metatye is more common in Europe and Germany, and there might be an extra chapter in Unwired about the German Matrix and hacker scene (maybe a chapter on the Schockwellenreiters?).

The thing is: I don't KNOW anything about what changes/additions will be made, but I KNOW (from what Pegasus has declared openly and officialy) that they will do MORE than just translate stuff – they will always do everything they can to make each book as good as possible, and that means: to design it in a way that German SR players, being their customers, will be pleased to the max: By including errata, by updating the content to any changes Catalyst has published in the meantime, by adding artwork that matches "the taste of the German fanbase" (usually meaning: more gritty, noir and dark) and by adding new content relating to the ADL setting.

I don't know if that makes it worthwhile to wait for the German books for you, but I'm REALLY looking forward to the new books

Quoted for truth.

The "time-lag" between English publication and German translation has been the end for many German ventures in the RPG market as most roleplayers speak Englishg quite well and want to have their new material NOW!!

This situation has led to the downfall of Vampire: The Requiem in Germany (in addition to German fanboydom regarding Massquerade): One part of the German Vampire scene never took a second look at the new English Requiem system, and whoever WAS interested in Requiem bought the English books as they became available. Between both groups, the Germann license holder had to abandon publication of Vampire in German.

so the german augmentation just might bring back zeiss eyes and the such?
Edit: Games were a better teacher for me when it comes to english than those people at School . .

I still see no reason that this 'extra' material can't be made available on the net for the rest of the fan base after a reasonable amount of time.

just wait for someone who is bored enough to translate the stuff . .
only problem will be finding oout what's in there that's not in the engrish books . .
especially, if you start out with the german books that have it and don't know the
engrish books that do NOT have it . .
something like the digital grimoire in german would be nice and easy, because it's
new stuff and because it is in german it's pretty likely that it's stuff the others don't
get to see . .

Now I'm gonna wait for the german RC. New art!

Even though I have to say that so much of the translation in Arsenal sounds cheesy and the new content in the clothing chapter made me nearly vomit.

Spew inducing clothes? Have you been hanging out in front of Vercace?

And whoevber said that it won't become available? As far as I know, some of the German authors are on the American team anyway, and most of the German stuff gets written or at least summerized in English anyway, for Catalyst's approval. And while Pegasus doesn't plan any PDF releases, Catalyst does, and (as rumor has it, though I don't remember where exactly I've read it) thinks about releasing the German material in English at some point in the (not so distant?) future.

How so?

No, the style of the clothings was ok, but the way the text was written.

Ok in English but bad German? Or vice versa?

Given that fuck-all of this type of content (either officially or not) has been made available in the past, I'm not exactly planning on holding my breath.

Ok in English, bad in German. And some of the new german-only content breaks with the style of the text: while the translated parts are written in a neutral style/tone, the german-only stuff reads like a (bad) advertising page.

It's a general problem with Arsenal 2070. As I mentioned in the respective thread at Pegasus' forums throughout the book you will sometimes think "now, that's a strange sentence structure there". Always understandable but quite removed from everyday German, as if there had been no "language polishing" after the initial translation from English.

It costs money and time? Time that can be used to write new books for example.
Someone has to translate it, edit it, layout it and so on.



cya
Tycho

As we have seen from the latest mini-PDF release, people are not adverse to paying a small fee for new (or extra) material. As for time, as far as I know the layout person does not contribute much (any more) to the actual writing of the books, so that really isn't an issue.

Uhhh... the layout person doesn't contribute to the writing [generally], but they do LAY IT OUT, which is a requirement, you know. That time is precious -- trust me.

I understand that. I actually tried to reword that sentence five or six times, but was not happy with any of the incarnations, but posted anyway.

I meant that it would not take up any 'writing' or 'creation' time. Yes, of course you would still have to do the layout. But you do layout for all kind of things all the time. Most of the time it is products that are for sale, but other times such things are fodder for the Shadowrun website. I really don't think the layout time is a major issue, especially if the product was expected to make a little money for the company.

and i think most people would be willing to overlook bad/no lay out in favour of getting new toys and infos for their game to use and flesh out the world with a bit more . .

Layout time and cost is always an issue, just like writing cost and writing time, art cost and time, etc. There are places where corners can be cut -- re-using artwork, for example, saves both money and time -- but layout has to happen, and doing the layout for a PDF takes more or less the same effort and time as a print project.

Note that I never said it wasn't an issue. I claimed that, in my opinion, it is not a major one. Translation would be a bigger concern, as far as I can see. I very specifically made no comment as to costs.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. You did the layout for the Digital Grimoire, as you did for the book and PDF of Ghost Cartels before that. How would this layout job be any different to those?

It wouldn't be -- but the claims that layout is not a major issue with regards to book/PDF production is simply wrong. Sadly, I do not have a giant button that says "Press this to make this manuscript look like a Shadowrun book."

Bear this in mind: If I can spend my time working on a book that will sell in the thousands, or a PDF that will sell in the hundreds ... what do you think is the best way for me to spend my time? I only have so much time per day that I can sanely spend working.

Frankly, I spent a stupid amount of time on Digital Grimoire doing layout, proofreading it myself, adding corrections, etc. Had we been paying a freelancer to do it [as opposed to my salaried time], the experimental project would have been even more likely to fail -- and I didn't want it to fail, so I gave up a weekend and some evenings to make sure it was finished to my satisfaction.

I think you overstate my claims. I did not declare that all layout in regards to books and PDFs is not a big issue. I claimed that, in my opinion, the layout for this particular job, which is mainly just text, is not that big of a deal. Now, I may be wrong in that specific declaration, but I'm not stupid enough to disclaim your entire profession as useless and immaterial.

Be that as it may, I stand by my claim that 'extra material' like this, and the stuff in the other German releases, should be made available to the entire customer base.

Regarding Translation, InterTran has a fairly decent online service for translation. I use it for translating a few Finnish and German words at work. It still takes a little interpreting but it can give you the gist.

As for layout, I primarily (again at work) publish PDFs with flowing layouts in Word. This is fairly quick. Layouts in Publisher or Quark are MUCH more time consuming. (I seem to recall Quark being easier than Publisher.)

However, perhaps a less professional Word -> PDF could be considered to get extra material, such as Digital Grimoire type "expansions", available as PDF downloads.

I can punch out something good-looking in InDesign *much* more easily and quickly than Word. It's not the tools, it's the attention to detail that takes the time, and we'd surely be railed on if we released a bunch of stuff that was far below our usual production values.