QUOTE (Matsci @ Nov 5 2008, 02:12 PM)
You got that backwards. As long as you know have the programs, and the skill to use them, you can hack. Name one time you need the software skill to hack.
Sorry, I hit SUBMIT too quickly so I'll rephrase. You don't
work with code, you don't hack.
No, you don't need Software to hack.
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Nov 5 2008, 02:44 PM)
Hacking to me is gaining access without permission. That does not include needing to modify code. Its description supports this... SR4, 124, "Hacking skill is used to exploit and subvert the programming of computers and electronics, specifically Matrix systems and interactions. For specific uses of the Hacking skill, see Hacking, p. 221."
Exploiting and subverting the
programming of computers and electronics requires some familiarity with programming. Programming is code. Unless you're working with a steam-powered abacus.
QUOTE (Cain)
As Matsci pointed out, that is not the case. It's trivial to hack a system with no skill, only superior programs. Programs are of equal importance with skill, in the Skill + Program equasion. I think Tarantula put it best: I'm at Skill 0 in hacking, and need to default; but I have a decent Exploit program. Such a character would be entirely possible under the SR4 rules, and could match someone with a much higher skill, but crappy programs.
I don't use the traditional Skill + Program equation in my games as I recently discovered the hard way that it leads to serious game imbalance. That's a major flaw in the Matrix BBB rules which is why I use the optional RAW Attribute rule from
Unwired:
QUOTE
Unwired, page 39.
Rather than relying on technology to determine a character’s efficacy in the Matrix, Attributes may be factored back into the various tests in the Matrix. To do this, replace the program or complex form in each Success, Opposed, or Extended Test with the appropriate attribute (usually Logic). The maximum number of hits (not net hits) that can be generated by each Matrix Test is limited to the rating of the program or complex form in a manner similar to the way Spellcasting hits are limited by the Force of a spell.
QUOTE (Cain)
The fact that the fourth definition doesn't contradict the other three means it expands on it.
If that's the interpretation you choose to take that's fine but in traditional scientific methodology when three of the four paths lead in one direction and the fourth path holds traits similar to the first three, logic dictates it will most likely follow the former.
QUOTE (Cain)
Besides which, even when I accessed computers by exploiting computer tricks, I didn't need to inject code, or write a single line. Think of it this way. A Web designer should know lots of HTML, right? Well, nowadays with the helper programs like Frontpage, it's not necessary anymore. The programs do all the actual coding for you, so the web designers just have to make everything look nice.
Exploiting a computer system without directly manipulating its code would fall under the Hardware skill in
SR game terms, not Hacking. Electromagnetic pulse guns, unplugging a server, sticking a disk into the right slot to upload a shut-down program, knowing how a wi-fi system broadcasting box works, jabbing a screwdriver into a wall socket to make a terminal overload without killing yourself... all that stuff falls into Hardware.
I'm sorry, I'm confused as to where your Frontpage analogy was implying. That WYSIWYG software does the work for you? The software manipulates the code for you as a proxy. But if you don't have the skills to use the tools, your abilities are going to be limited. I guess you could call people like that web programmers but working as one for the past 10 years, I wouldn't.
EDIT