For twelve bucks, yes.

I found this: Amber Character Questionaire

I invented a new word for emo I call it angst!

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

Those seem to be excerpts from the original. I'm not sure whether they're verbatim, going from memory, but I believe they're in there. If I'm not mistaken, the questions on the linked page represent fewer than half of the number of questions in the book.

Angst is okay if it's manly. Then it's mangst, I guess.

Example: Rambo in Rambo 3. He has angst, but then he puts it, and half the Burmese army, away.

.50 cal machine gun + angst = mangst.

Bingo. That's your biggest problem. Anyone who is new to gaming is acting outside of their comfort zone. To make RPing more comfortable, they usually pick or create characters that they are familiar with (ie recreating characters from shows or movies), or they create themselves in the game world (hell, I did this my first campaign). However, regardless of what character they play, beginners usually don't know how to RP, so they just let tons and tons of their quirks and ideologies and beliefs dump into their character so they become a carbon copy of themselves. When you have an angsty teen with no real trouble to cause them angst (save puberty) playing someone they're not, they will dump all of that RL angst into their character. At least with their characters they have a reason to be angsty, so it's not that bad.

I am a firm believer that kids are stupid, not on the grounds that they lack intelligence, but because they lack any kind of experience or hardships. You won't see the teen who has been made to get a job and buy their own silly clothes and learn to wash them by themselves and support their asses being angsty. They don't have time for that shit, they've got to get to work and pay some bills. Kids only have angst until they realize that RL takes effort and some personal responsibility and unfortunately, for most kids that doesn't come until college and for some, later than that. So, when RPing with kids in High School, be prepared for a good heaping dose of angst and just deal with it, because these kids haven't ever had a reason to be depressed. Their level of angst is inversely proportional to the amount of suffering the person has actually experienced IRL.

Once someone (even angsty teenagers) gets comfortable with RPing though, they will start creating characters outside of their comfort zones and start branching out and acting in good manners. RPing has that training wheels learning curve where everybody totally makes their first character act just like they would, and usually in some kind of lawless psychopathic manner. Hell, my first SR game, all of us were brand new to RPing and totally acted like a bunch of noobs that represented what we would do in a world without any real repercussions.

Not unless you do it constantly and turn yourself into a pariah.


[elmo voice]Elmo knows where you live![/elmo]


That's awesome. I wish I could create characters half as detailed as that.

I think what everyone has gotten at, but has never hit the mark is flavor. A character should always have flavor. This makes a 2d character a 3d character and in the end more fun to play. It can sometimes restrict your character in what you want to do, but it can at the same time make them more interesting.

For instance I had a somewhat angst driven character but man alive was/is he fun to play.

His name is Bob (formerly Yuske Takahashi) and he is a troll who was taken by force from his family and brought up at a young age by the JIS and brainwashed. When he was sent into the field he was also mind controlled (for fear that he might turn on his superior officers) to capture those trolls and orcs in the San Francisco underground during JIS occupation. When the mind control spell wore off due to the fact that Bob became awakened, he became enraged at how he was manipulated and in a fit of rage killed the rest of the team he was working with. Bob then took on his new name as he wanted to have nothing to do with the JIS. Although he was fully under JIS control he still blames himself for being manipulated into turning in his fellow metahumans and felt that he should have been stronger to resist what he had done.

He then went on a two year drug binge, alienated all of his contacts, and has so far sold everything he has except for his suit of full body armor (that has the JIS symbol scratched off of it.) During that time though he was able to self teach himself the new powers that he had somehow been bestowed. He takes combat drugs when in combat to feel alive, and when he is not fighting he takes any other type of drug to forget his sins. During this time he joined the resistance movement against the JIS, but due to his over enthusiastic tendencies to needlessly kill the JIS he became somewhat of a liability to anyone else on his team. To the point where the only missions he could get were what the resistance considered suicide missions however he was happy as long as he could kill his former tormentors. Somehow through all of this he has managed to survive and after the fall of the JIS occupation he found himself again without a purpose, that is until a sun mentor spirit took pity on him and guided his hand giving him a new purpose in life. Although still a drug addict with no friends and living in a dumpster with a sack of his old belongings he is determined to make up for his past transgressions and press on with his life. Bob is almost always sporting a stained garish Hawaiian t-shirt, shaded sunglasses, sandals, and a pair of baggy shorts.

He is a risky character who over-summons all of his spirits even if he doesn't need to, takes crazy combat drugs, and is actually incredibly smart, although it is as much of a blessing as it is a curse in his case. He doesn't know why he is still alive. Yet in the end he is not a broody character, but he is generally hung over and will not hesitate to snatch drugs out of your hand... at least your hand is open. He has angst but it is more of a bad assed angst, kind of like the mangst Wounded Ronin was talking about. Since he has flavor he is fun to play, and easier to roll play.

Heh. Mangst.



How old are you? I thought you were another of us late 20's early 30's guys.

The reason being because my general impression was that the angsty angle in RP was newish. I seem to recall my early gaming groups leaning more towards RPing characters who were, if anything, more confident, manly/womanly, and better with the opposite sex than the player.

And even today I'd say the SR sample characters are trying to push the players that direction. Mental health issues sure. Complete jerk? Maybe. But not a lot of angst from even the ones that are all done up in black.

If anything tragic pasts and other traditional angst sources add more depth to such characters becuase, well, it's on a different plane. By that I mean when Emo McGoth misses their mommy it isn't adding anything to the character. If Conan or the Bounty Hunter does than it's good for a jaw dropping all around.

Also, I got another new player today



I'm not making this stuff up. It's like I'm watching the emo day parade as the character sheets go by. Again I didn't criticise the preson. I tend to be easy on the newbies, and she certainly tried here. But it's like the whole generation is this way.



Hmmmmm Since I'm not screwing with their chargen maybe I should be asking about how to encourage characters to develop and change over time.

Commence operation "anything but black".

I'm 25.

However even though I was never really all that much of an angst driven teen I still had angst even if it was more of a side dish then the main course. There was a point in my life ten years ago that really really sucked, but hell I got on with my life and am quite happy now. I was also a latch key kid so I think it might have helped that I wasn't a pampered spoiled little brat. To me though angst is nothing new. My mother was angsty/rebelious, so was my Aunt, both my brothers who are ten and fifteen years older then me respectively. Angst is nothing new. Emo is new. Personally I view people who are still broody in their mid to late 20's are the people who are actually emo. Teens have angst, but after that whole puberty thing wares off and that amount of unnecessary self loathing does not wear off then I would probably peg them as emo. In my head adults can be emo, teens just have angst because of the awkward situation they are put in. Some people use Kurt Cobain as an emo template.

See where is the flavor of that character? Her mother died, w/o any flavor to it. Why does she hate her father? Did her father kill her mother? Did he stand back and let her die as the thief broke into their home?

Zero flavor that is why the character sucks.

Let me attempt to add some flavor to this character and make her less... um... bad.

Appearance: Mary Sutherland a.k.a. Sunstar stands 5'11" with pale bright blue eyes (insert ethnicity, skin type, body build, and meta/human status.)

Growing up watching the trids on television of the hit show CyberP 2065 she became enamored with the idea of running in the shadows. She was known at the age of thirteen to be almost addicted to black (a fad which has not worn off.) During her teen years she was known only to sport black. She was always wearing black shirts, shades, pants, steeltoed combat boots, and skater shoes. She would even ware a black leather trenchcoat every once and a while. Although she was heavily mocked by many of her peers it was a lifestyle that she felt comfortable in despite being austrisized by most of her classmates. Her mother, Judy Sutherland, was a nurse who worked for Docwagon ™ was always kind and supportive to whatever kind of choices she made and helped her during those dark days in her childhood when the words became too much for her gentile soul to take. When Sunstar closes her eyes she can still remember the loving embrace her mother would give her and the sweet gentile song she used to whisper in her ears to help ease her pain.

Her father, Henry Sutherland, was a mid level security chief working for Lone Star. However he was always very critical of his daughter's behavior and would constantly make belittling remarks about how Sunstar should grow up. One day when her father had had enough of Sunstar's behavior he took off his belt, but before he could beat her Judy stayed his hand. However two weeks later an escaped convict who escaped from a Lone Star prison entered her home and brutally killed her mother while she was hiding under her bed. Her father came home two hours later after the killer escaped. Later she found out that her father had hired a team of shadowrunners to bring . Although she has never forgiven her father and suspects that he was involved with her mothers death the shadowrunner team who brought the killer to justice became her idols. It is now five years later and she gave herself the handle of sunstar as a somewhat twisted joke on Lone Star where she will bring her enemies to justice, since she knows first hand what the law is really worth.)

Sunstar is cold and slow to trust at first, prefering to observe them before she actually introduces herself. However is loyal to those who bring her comfort and are willing to help her out in a time of need.

If I had some stats I could write a better back story on how she used to train during recess to be a shadowrunner and how she was mocked, since her school was basically training her to be a wage slave later on in life a roll which she refused to accept.

You have the angst, but at least it's not lame angst. Maybe there are various versions of angst.

Mangst = manly angst
langst = lame angst
wangst = whiney angst

This post is overflowing with win.

OMG.
Before reading this thread, i always thought that this whole emo fad is just for show, as all the emos i know personally don't have anything remotely angsty about them, but tend to be outgoing party people who just happen to have a rather peculiar taste in music and be fond of those stupid sweat bands (which, in their cases, happen to be just a fashion statement and not a sign of self-hurting).
Are they always like this or do they just end up with such characters?

@masterofm 90% good stuff
10% http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612 (Though since I'm throwing the link DM of the Rings is made of awsome if you've had enough gaming groups to *know* these people, the rest of you can learn what not to do).

However you're right that even in keeping this short a simple reason for the bad father relationship would make him more of a useable personality and give the character a possible sore spot all in the space of maybe seven words.


@Rasumichin

There are definitly "emos" these days. I'm talking about kids who cut themselves because it's "cool". And it's quite widespread.

As a side note there have been mass beatings of emo groups in Mexico and regions of Russia are trying to outlaw the fashion and music on school ground and government buildings.
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1725839,00.html (with video)
http://www.freemuse.org/sw29040.asp

However the players aren't really emo. I think they feel like fictional characters should be emo after reading some vampire realated stuff from Ann Rice, to "Twighlight," to "Vampire Knight" (Note that my knowledge of those series is highly limited, sorry if I'm mischaracterizing them).

As a side note your friends may be something other than emo. "Scene" perhaps?

I didn't really take all that much time making up the back story and just wrote as I thought it up. It took me longer writing it as it did coming up with the backstory. I.E. 2 minutes vs. 6-8 minutes.

I wanted her mother to sing this song from Hocus Pocus to her daughter, or at least that was the image I got - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsda4GJuzcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9ZFv6YzcQ...feature=related - the longer version, but it is nice when the song starts to break down in the end.


That song might bump it up to 95% awesome, since it's also a pretty decent song if you wanted to screw with the character later on.

The sad thing is I spent a while longer searching for the title of the movie then I thought I would, so that I forgot why I was looking for it... >.< Well it is a brand new day and I got some extra sleep.

emphasis mine... for lolz

----

White Wolf is ground zero for emo gaming, and they opened there doors in 91. Emo was respectable genre of punk until around 2000. I don't know when Emo fashion/style/mannerism really caught in popular culture but if you assume it is around the time the music caught on and a little later, then emo gaming has been around for about 10 more years than people have been using emo as a derogatory

Walk away. It's all you can do.

I suppose I could actually watch the series. Most anime is availible free online.

/watches a couple episodes.

1. Since when did women start finding men who look rather like women to be optimally attractive!
wiki wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen
Well. Geez. Darn it. First the queer eye guys take away our flannel and now they want us to not show off our manly body hair, square jaws, and broad shoulders.

(Note to self, another reason to dislike the SR Japanicorps)

2. Having children in the series is a bit like saying "I'll be right back" if you're in a horror movie.

3. Apperantly not liking a girl is the new flirting.

4. Only the coolest kids are emo. Most of the cast doesn't seem to be, just the male leads Well, I guess all the vampires are a little.

That was an awsome catch. Freudian slip mayhaps masterofm?

I was going for a very common name. Didn't even think about Mary Su. I was actually thinking her handle is somewhat an augmentation of her last name, and lone star. It makes sense as part of the history and ties in neatly with the characters persona. I think you should pitch this characters history to the player and see if they take a nibble at it.

My previous runner's handle was Kevin Randal if you are wondering about how some of my characters are. He was a rigger/face who was quite non-threatening, until one of his drones shot or fired a grenade at your face.

Good heavens! What have I done?!

*cut* *cut*

Like the lumberjack of the dinosaurs
I chop away
To prove my manliness
The red sap flows
But do I care if it stops?
Timber

There is only one possible response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEDNx-JWuis

More on topic, here is Van Damme attempting to portray manly martial angst. Note that this scene is the precursor to his kicking Bolo Yeung in the face with twisty kicks in the next scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KqOvPs2gw4...feature=related

It's also very Shadowrun, being an 80s orientalist American film.

mangst == best call ever.

I agree with Fortune here. Players are going to play the kind of characters they want to play. Attempts to talk them out of it or into some new sort of character type is generally futile. I've got one guy in my group who always plays a maniac of some sort. Another one always plays a playboy of some sort. This is what they want to do, who am I to try and tell them to play something different?

So what should you do?
First analyze if you truly have a problem. Generally with loner emo types, the main problem that arises is that the players don't work together well and may be overly prone to backstab one another. If the players are more-or-less functional as a team, and there isn't to much intra-party mayhem that disrupts the game then there probably isn't a problem here. (Unless of course you want that kind of stuff, I don't, but to each there own).

If you are having these sorts of problems, talk with your players about it. Explain to them that for the game to work well they have to work together just a little bit. Consider having them make all there characters at once and having them share a common backstory of some sort. Give them some sort of common cause early on to unite them (having them betrayed by an employeer and out for revenge works well).

If your only problem is just that your unsatisfied with the character types, then you are probably experiencing some of these two problems:
The character types are just to bland. Give them incentives to develop a more creative backstory. Such as free karma point for ones that you really like. Get them to fill out the 20 questions (or some other equivelent). For my group I find starting each session off by asking a character an interesting question works well. I also like to do a mini-interview with the character, Pretend your Larry King and quiz the character about stuff, if possible get the player to respond IC as well.

You just don't like the character type: I completely understand what you mean, but well get over it. Yes the loner samurai who's parents, siblings, and pets are all dead may be a bit old hat, but if thats what the player wants to play, and its not disrupting your game, get over it. Your job as GM is to construct the setting and framework in which the players play, its there job to define and play the role of the actors, so let them do it. The game is (IMO) much more satisfing when players are playing characters they really want to play.

What you can do is provide some help and encouragement in game to help them grow. Have an NPC in the game befriend them. Kill off any remaining loved ones. Keep dumping drama on them until you get some positive results. You can also lead by example. Interesting NPCs can inspire characters to greater heights. Let the PCs know it's okay to steal blatantly for TV archtypes. (The emo loner often comes from a vain attempt at originality).

---

But in the end you can only lead and encourage. Attempts to force the players to grow into character types you like better are bound to fail. Players are a lot like horses in this respect. You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink.

There we go.

For the record I'm trying to add "mangst" to the urban dictionary. The program is being annoying though.

Or you could take their crummy 2d story and make it something bigger and ask if that was the image the character wanted. Either you take the effort or they take the effort. In the end characters should just have flavor. Something that drives them, something interesting, something someone can easily play. Saying "my character is good with guns and shoots people" is lame, saying "My character is an ex military operative who ended up losing his wife due to accidentally getting tied up in the mob and has taken years to hone his skill with a gun for hire" is something to go on. Both can be one and the same character the only difference is that there is something to go on in the second saying.

In story writing you call it show not tell. Don't tell us your character is a badass, show us. My character dresses all in black and is a cold calculating badass.... you see that there is no flavor to that? It's like eating at "Claim Jumpers" for how dry, and partially frozen the background is.

Have the person play whoever they want to play, but just have something going for the character instead of "my character is a playboy." My response would be "Fine he is a playboy now show me why."

I'd not say those backgrounds are lame or stupid - they just lack details so far, but those cna be added in game or by digging some. Most players will not have thought of possible details yet - sometimes those are hard to come up without getting reminded. By asking about possible details those can be created. Like asking the playboy if he had a woman he loved in the past, or has one he still loves, or if he fears commitment, or if he is just indecisive, juggling girlfriends, or needs the constant attention to reassure himself, etc.
The girl in black may have had a rivalry in school, or was hurt by a boyfriend, or is a fan of some poet, singer, or simsense star, or runs a fan node of such a person, worked part-time in a shop that got bought up and closed by a corp, etc. etc.

You know I am the only person who has offered constructive feedback on the characters background right? I also don't think it is the players fault, because when I was a teen it was hard to write background for my characters (I just never really thought about it.) I also don't think anything a person can create is stupid, but I can believe that you can create a character concept that is completely flat and lacks any kind of originality. Sorry but if you create a character who's background is a time traveling biodrone who is here to save us from the future it's just not going to happen.

My response would be to offer a better background and work with the player from there (which it seems like I am the only person to have done this instead of implying that you should do it.) If they don't want the background that I can come up with on the spot then there is still ways to teak the concept into something they really enjoy. The key thing is work with them on the spot the minute they submit the character concept until you can find a solution you both like. I am personally interested if the person who created Sunstar would like the background I wrote for her, and the plot hook that the GM can potentially use in game.

I'll let you know, but you'll have to wait. I've got a 15 year old emo girl on my hands that's brand spanking new to RPGs.

Which means I'm leery of confusing or appearing to be criticizing her (I have a hard enough to trying to give constructive criticism with my 28 year old, non-emo wife).

So for now we'll try organically growing her character as the game goes on and than later I'll bring up to topic of enhancing her backstory and I'd be willing to throw in your stuff as ideas.

Side note: I'm attempting to send the emos to the beach. Not sure how that'll work out, but hopefully at least I'll be amused.

Nothing like blistering 45 degree days (Celcius, of course) spent in the sun to make people re-think the 'all-black' outfit. =P

Have her character break a nail whenever she operates a handgun. I'm a guy but my nails have a natural ability to get long and stick out a little bit, and if I don't cut my nails before I go shooting I break 'em all the time.

Well, to be honest, I couldn't care less about what the characters write for a back story (in terms of pure role playing) and how ridiculously cliche it is. I do want them to pick a character and act in the appropriate manner though. Back story doesn't matter as much as what the player brings forth to the table.

Like I said, beginners will pick a personality that hits close to home and is within their comfort zone. If a teen plays, they'll play a character with angst, that's all there is to it. Get them playing, keep them having fun, and get them hooked and they'll eventually start playing personalities that are far removed from themselves and probably even play characters that are fun to have around. If you alienate them and harass them for what they've brought to the table, they'll just get upset and stop playing.

Heh, well, practically speaking, yeah.

Yeah. That's why I'm playing with the kid gloves on. I mean they're emo to start with. To much "constructive criticism" and I have to clean blood off the fragging furniture.


So far I'm having some fun success by trying to recruit some more confident males and perky females and then throwing them at the emos.

I'm not entirely sure if the emos are becoming less emo. But it's hillarious at any rate, and, really, that's enough for me.

*snickers*
i imagine some barbie blondes trying to talk about their my little pony stuff with some emos now ^^