First no legal system is perfect, I can list bad court ruleing in america as well or anymore legal system. I believe that the king of Saudic Arabic overturn the punishment of that woman an he have afew word to say to the judge about how they rules in legal case. In Caliform than judge in a case of than woman who carry than other woman baby in her womd.When that other woman and her hushand broke up either one want the baby so the woman who carry it in her womb took care of the baby, then welfare decide not to support that woman because it wasnot her baby, she went to court an the supid judge who was than republian said in his ruleing that than 3 month old baby can fully support itself and
care for itself. One of the judge of the state top court hear this on the radio new when traveling by car he got on his cell phone called up the governor of the state ordering to not ended welfare payment to that woman as the court will directly hear this case next. True to his word the court hear the case next and rule in the woman favor.
IBy saying it hard to be than muslim in america it hard to remember to pray 5 time aday, stop looking at woman in inpoper way. Where I live there is than bar with nude danceing girls. Than religious told me that I have more knowlege of the basic treaching of Islam than many of the adverage muslim in moslim nation and I than no scholar of religion. In fact by convert all of my old sin are earse by Allah on my record and all of my good deed from now on count double.

English is my first language I was born in america. Born with brain damage speech center.

Funny my religion also requires me to pray daily, to not lust over women, and to not go to titty bars. And I have found it no harder to do here in America then I have anyplace else. Temptation is always there, but it is wrong to blame your personal failings in resisting it on the country in which you live.

I talk to one woman who marry than Saudic engineer who is now home taken care of her sick christian parent. She tell me many Saudic women donot consider thenself oppose , in fact they conside western women to be opposree. As they worry about too much about they look to men, like I than 5 pound overwieght I need to lose 50 ibs to wear that sexly bathing suit.
Than muslim who doesnot believe that Jesus wasnot than prophet of Allah is no muslim, but muslim donot believe that Jesus was the son of Allah. Than real muslim resect other religions and they follower, no burning down other place of workship.

somehow i find this fitting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Hi.

As interesting as this discussion is, Dumpshock isn't really the place for it. Let's remember that the boards are for discussion of Shadowrun, not religion, politics, courts, or faith. All very worthy topics certainly. But this isn't the forum for them. Feel free to continue via PM of course.

Saudi women are oppressed. One can ignore the dress codes and the zina laws, that isn't the big issue. The rather important thing is that Saudi women cannot vote or hold public office, and have severely limited employment opportunities.

That isn't exactly dark ages stuff, it is about the same condition as in 1920s America. But one must recognize that any group that is outright denied political franchise is, by definition, oppressed. And such oppression doesn't exist in the other major Islamic countries. Even Iran has women serving in elected political office
.

heh, i was wondering when the admins would take notice. ok, im out.

The world of 2070s Shadowrun is one in which access to information and the ability for ideas to interact will have progressed to a level of which we today have only an inkling.

Such massively open and freewheeling transfer of information is anathema to any cognitive system that cannot deal with challenge. Religious systems with few, if not no, exceptions deal with challenge through suppression and peer pressure. In 2070s Shadowrun, it will be very difficult for anyone linked to the world-wide information system to be kept isolated from challenging ideas.

The only places where such suppression will be possible is in those places where access to the knowledge/ideas net can be restricted or blocked. Do such places exist in 2070s Shadowrun?

Peter

sure do, the glass desert of the middle east

err, crap i was supposed to stay away from this thread...

bad panda...

I for one have never seen the treatment of metas in the Middle East as something indicative of how Islam in general views them. Extrapolating from today, where there are about as many Muslims in Southeast Asia as there are in the ME, and nearly twice as many in South Asia, I would say that by 2070, that lead is even more pronounced. Sure, Mekka and Medina remain on the Arabian peninsula -- but the Muslim thought as developed in Asia will be more important, and more progressive I daresay, than what we know.

pbangarth hits the nail on the head as to why I think it isn't that realistic for the fundies to be so prevalent in the future envisioned by SR. Also keep in mind that if the oil money isn't rolling in as much, the Saudis would not be able to proselytize their hateful version of Islam to other countries as much.

I think SR went with the same approach that was taken with the 90's phobia of Japan - take the worst aspects and exagerate them. Which, again, is not the wisest move considering the animosity floating around right now. I'm not saying sugarcoat anything, hell, there needs to be less giving them a free pass on things like gender roles with a glib "That's their culture." Just, please, try present a more well-rounded view of Islam than, say, Jack Chick.

I will say, as ill-advised as their take on Islam was in Street Magic, they improved a bit when they did the entry on hobgoblins in Street Magic. At least there was a mention of "more open-minded Islamic sprawls" and a group called the "Islamic Renaissance Movement".

When than Pakistian woman was butral gang rape the women lib movernment jump into this took over from woman movern
ent in Pakistian so when the women Pakistian protect her unfair treatment they where ingore by the men and government as they saw then as tranitor to fellow Muslim and puppet of western imperial interest. The Saudic womem told me that progress is being make slowly on women right in the kingdton. The last king before he went into than comma ask women religish scholar what right that are given in the Koran that they donot have in the kingdom now. They said than woman with no man of male relative need to be able to support herself but she needed to be able to open bank account in her own name but to do so she need offical Id. When the king read the passage in the Koran he order that all Saudic women be issue official government ID and be allow to have bank account in they name also. They just have to work useing the system they have and religious writeing from the Koran and Islamist tradition. Many Saudic women want to be able to drive car but that occup than lower positon in they list of what they want. Womem educration didnot come to the Kington untril the early 1950's. So the west need to be more partent with the Kingdtom.. I press the wrong quotes.

In our place of prayer as than man you must speack to your sister in a respect voice . Also afew brother have non-moslim mother whon they must also treat with respect as they are his mother. That mean it his mother need his help like cutting the grass he must do so.

Our religious leader said than muslim can enter than nude bar depenceing on the reason there was than time I enter than bar as I walk to place I need to go, I need to know which fork in the road was the correct one to take no other bussien was open. I ask politly while wearing my muslim t-shirt which of the fork in the road is the correct one to take where I needed to go. Some people who want to know about Islam will pick than all nude or topless bar or club thinking the muslim willnot enter the place.

Sorry if you didn't understand Barenziahlover58 but the warning before was explicit. As you guys haven't veered off of real life and back into SR, I'm going to lock it down.