Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Unorthodox PbP game - an experiment
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Welcome to the Shadows
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4
Fuchs
While the SRP seems to be stillborn it did give me an idea for a more unorthodox game, both with regards to rules and plot, so I am checking here if there's interest.

The basic idea is to create not the usual PbP campaign with a GM, a plot, and 4-6 PC Shadowrunners, 400 BP build, but more of a background/setting, where one plays characters of varying experience and power, both PCs and NPCs. They'd not be limited to "Shadowrunners", but could range from bartender to gang lord, from talislegger to bored rockstar, gritty detective, mage researcher or casino owner.

The emphasis would be on character interaction, with a preference for freeform, rules-light scenes. Some restraint should be used when it comes to PC vs. PC conflicts, depending on the involved players’ preferences, but other than that, there’s a lot of possibilities to be explored which may not be covered in standard games - especially alternate concepts like organised crime operations and such.

I was thinking of having PCs be built with karma gen rules, 750 karma, as the "upper limit". PCs also would have some "plot protection" - no killing them off without consent, though wounding, kidnapping, emergency room trips etc. (anything that keeps them "going" in the campaign) would be ok - they'd not be invulnerable or unbeatable. NPCs would have no limits (within reason), but would not have such protection, so should be expected to bite a bullet where PCs might survive. NPCs would also not have to be detailed as much as a PC, stat-wise, since they could just refer to sample NPCs from the BBB, if needed with some changes due to their background.

Since everyone could run NPCs the campaign would effectively have a number of GMs, and resulting plots and twists. This would serve both to keep the game going on a number of scenes even if others are stalled, and make it less liklely that the game would fall apart if one player drops out.

To coordinate the background, a wiki would be best in my opinion, so people can put in their locations, PCs and NPCs, growing as the game goes on, and make it easier for new players to join with an organised information source.

One could pick a location (maybe one not as covered as some of the official locations) and develop it during play.

Here's a (rough) example of a location (just as an example, nothing set):

„Kingston, Jamaica, Caribbean League. A city of contrasts. Tourists from all over the world enjoy the beaches, resorts, and hotels, while not too far away from the tourist traps, pirates and other criminals spend their ill-gotten loot before going out on the next job or heist, and gangs struggle against each other for control over streets filled with shabby houses. Both tourists and criminals and their needs provide the income for much of the population. Goods and services of legal and illegal nature are offered on the market, and the lines between open and shadow market are blurry on an island that serves as a stopover for a lot of smugglers on their various routes. Corrupt cops – a street gang in uniforms – keep the peace for the tourists, and for others who can afford their bribes.
The city offers opportunities for a wide range of people, from high-tech mercenaries seeking greener pastures to mysterious houngans seeking power. Crime syndicates and independent gangs compete with each other, corporations meddle, and numerous runners find work from everyone."


Is there any interest in such a campaign? If so, what kind of setting/location would be preferred, and what kind of flavor (general power level of PCs, "exoticness" of races/concepts, themes)?


Divine Virus
I am internested, but tied up with writing a paper for the next 4 and a half hours. SHouldn't even be checking this forum. Kick me if I post again. I still have 8 1.5 spaced pages to write in that time. talk to you in a few hours.
De Badd Ass
This is the first I've read about your SRP; either you haven't publicized it enough, or I haven't been paying attention.

I'm willing to give it a shot. It's not like other games are keeping me too busy. sarcastic.gif
Fuchs
(Small clarification: SRP wasn't my idea, nor was I involved in any other capacity than as a member. I'd have publicized it more, and posted a proposal to that extent, but there was no response from admins or mods, or just about anyone else, for over a week, so I consider the site dead. Hence this thread here.)
Divine Virus
If I may make a suggestion, you might want to think about hosting the game on rpol.net. It has a LOT of useful tools for a game like this. Please don't hit me, I'm going back to work now.
Fuchs
Considering a few options. Ultimately it depends on who's interested, and their preferences.
Divine Virus
Well, so far we have two people who have voiced an interest, that isn't really much, but if we are clever, it is enough.
I do have a character I quite want to play, but it isn't possible under normal rules as the character requires more than 250,000 nuyen and a peice of equipment at R24.
This character is an AI living in an Otomo drone body- the kind of body normally used for cyborgs.
On a completely unrelated note I should watch ghost in the shell again.
But of course the body itself is 250k nuyen and r24. Think should a think could be permissible le?
Fuchs
That should not be a problem (even by strict RAW it would possible, for example using the "in debt" flaw to exceed starting nuyen, and the "restricted gear" quality to get a piece of gear above availability 12). What location/background do you have in mind?
Divine Virus
Restricted Gear only lets you go up to twenty, if I recall.

I wrote this for a game that crashed during the summer. I was really psyched for it too. I haven't reread it in a while, so it would have probably evolved some in my head, but it gives you a pretty damn good idea.

The GM made this awesome fake trailor for the game as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHUOWTDPmZY...re=channel_page
I am really sad that game fizzled, and have been looking for a game I could play the Inquiline Protocol in ever since.

The Inquiline Protocol
[ Spoiler ]
Fuchs
Looks good, and seems adaptable. Any setting preference?
Divine Virus
Well, LA is appropriate for the disapearence of Sadie, but I honestly am not a big fan of LA. Following Sadie could have led anywhere.
Digital Heroin
I'd be down with an a-typical experiment. Just need to sort through some pre-deployment crap at the moment.
Fuchs
Sounds good, DH. Any particular preference for a setting and character?

Also, any NPC concept?
Glyph
I would be interested - I like running, but sometimes the games seem too much "Go from point A to point B". I liked games like Cage Fight and Emerald City Nights, where there was more character interaction and chewing the scenery.

I'm pretty open on the setting. The Jamaica one actually sounded pretty interesting. Exotic and different enough, a bit more laid back, but still plenty of opportunities for runners. For PCs, I might use a karmagen version of Syren - originally a face in the 800-point characters thread. The karmagen version is still a great entertainer, but combat is more of a secondary focus now, and her social abilities are not nearly as overpowered (still a good face, just not near-pornomancer any longer). Various characters on the lower end, too. And some NPCs, definitely, from all of the contacts I have written up for my characters.

Fuchs
Sounds good, Glyph. Jamaica offers the opportunity, in my opinion, to have very secure areas (tourist and upper class areas) as well as slums and lawless areas, and the whole sea.

A "watering hole" (nightclub, bar, etc.) might be good as a focal/meeting spot.

I'll put up a wiki so people can start putting up PCs, NPCs and locations, if Jamaica works for everyone.

As I posted, I'd like this to be more free form, so it doesn't bog down. Actions, especially combat, shouldn't be blow by blow, IP by IP, dragging out over days of real time while only taking a few seconds in game, if not everyone is involved. Instead I think it might work best if the general outcome of a scene is settled in advance by PMs (can be done by a few "sample" dice rolls, or simple "you win this melee, no need to roll", or even fully played out in a chat session) and then the scene gets written up. Some tolerance is needed, of course.

One thing I'd also like set is a baseline. Shadowrun has a wide range for dicepools, and in my opinion it's better for immersion if everyone is on the same page with regards to what is "average", "good" etc. so we don't have one player thinking a DP of 15 in pistols is adequate for his "inexperienced rookie gunfighter" and another player thinks a DP of 13 in pistols is adequate for his "legendary gunslinger". (That's especially important for those who want to play weaker characters, PCs or NPCs.)

Another thing is how best to organise posting, and where. If we keep everything in one thread it can get confusing as soon as a few plots and scenes and locations start up. If we need a few threads for different locations or plots, a subforum like on RPOL might be good, so stuff does not get missed.
Divine Virus
Well, I would call a "runners average" 10 dice for their favoured firearm (smartlink2 + agility 4 +skill 4)
A more normal average I would call 5 dice (agility 3, firarms 1, lasersight 1)
I think in general, most skills tap out around 15 dice. 15 is the best. Except for adepts, of course, and TMs with anything computer related, and firearm skills. So I would rank it like this
Poor: 3 dice
Average: 5 dice
Professional: 8 dice
Skilled Professional 10 dice
Elite 12 dice
Master 15 dice.
Again, for computers, firearms, and anything an adept does, this baseline is skewed.

But thats just off the top of my head.
The character I am making, I should warn, will probably have about 19 dice for firearms (response 9+ skill 4+ smartlink 2+ specialty 2)

I have a few NPCs I can run.
Heck, I have a whole NPC neighbourhood I could run. Made it for another game which I think is dead. I sure hope I actually saved its information to my hard drive, and didn't just leave it in the threads (which I think may have been deleted).
Fuchs
(that would be 17, 9+4+2+2, but shouldn't be a problem either way.)

So, what about the location, and where to host the game ?
Divine Virus
I really think the easiest way to keep everything straight would be on RPOL.
If you are not familiar with it, it works like this.
You make an account. with this account, you can request to join games.
Each game has its own forum, and its own built in die roller.
When you join a game, you do not post in its forum with your RPOL account name, but with your character name. A player can have more than one character in a game. Which means that if 1 person is playing a half dozen different people, When you post, the name of the person posting is that of the character who is taking the action. It is a real friendly interface, and very, very useful for something like this.
Give it a look see.
www.rpol.net
Fuchs
I already made an account there yesterday ("Starfox"), and yes, it looks like a good spot.
De Badd Ass
QUOTE (Fuchs @ Jan 15 2009, 09:09 AM) *
I already made an account there yesterday ("Starfox"), and yes, it looks like a good spot.

I also made an account on rpol.net yesterday ("De Badd Ass").

When are you going to start the game? Here or there?

I am making a character for the Jamaica setting, in either case, using Karmagen.

Seeing as it is rpol.net, Australia might be an appropriate setting. It's just like Jamaica, only bigger ((ducks and hides)) wobble.gif
Fuchs
Since it's not a classic "team on a run" game, it can start as soon as the foundations are laid (house rules, if any, a few characters and NPCs and locations present) and grow from there, so probably in a few days.

I made a wiki, to post PCs, NPCs and locations in:

Caribbean Shadows

To be able to edit and add, please register and contact me to get permission to edit.

I posted an old player character, as an example for a template.

Anyone opposing the use of RPOL.net?

Any house rules you all want?
ReverendMo
This sounds like a pretty interesting premise, especially with the more casual gameplay element, I'd be interested in signing on. Any house rule/preference regarding qualities and point caps? For example, most of the games I've ran/played in had a house rule of no cap on positive/negative quality points but required GM approval and had potentially sever repercussions if negative qualities were abused or ignored.
Divine Virus
Well, we were just starting discussion on houserules now. Personally, I don't have any to propose. I have a bunch of little pet peeves, but nothing worth complaining or houseruling about. I am pretty easy going with such matters.
Fuchs
Well, with Karma Gen, I think there's no need to remove caps on qualities.

Approved RevMo and DBA for wiki.
Fuchs
Approved Divine Virus
Glyph
Okay, I've joined RPOL.net and requested to join the wiki.
Digital Heroin
I'm still down with the eccentric game idea, but if it's gone to RPOL I'm out. Work restrictions, and I'll be living at work most of this year.
Glyph
I could live with RPOL, but I'll admit that I would prefer a few threads in this forum, kind of like the Divine Comedy game that was going for awhile. A main thread, an OOC thread, and spinoff threads as needed. RPOL looks like a bit of a steep learning curve, and is unnecessarily complicated for a game where the dice are going to be deemphasized.

For house rules, maybe we could do away with the last sentence for empathy software (where it gives a bonus to social skills)? It seems way too cheap, and way too much of a bonus, and all it does is add needless dice pool inflation to social skills, which already cap out higher than anything else in the game.
Fuchs
I am ok with banning emotitoys alltogether.

Having a few threads here would work, especially with links to all on the wiki.

Alternatively, I could set up a private forum myself on a free host.
Fuchs
Approved Glyph
overchord
I really like the idea of creating a complete environment in which to run and interact.
I've never played SR4, but have experience in all 3 previous editions, and have/am reading the SR4 sourcebook.
Is there room fro someone as a NPC-type? I don't have a huge amount of time, and since i'm pretty new to SR4 i thought this might be a good intro to it smile.gif

Idea for NPC Char: Dexter Beaumont, Mechanic/rigger type laying low in the Carrib working for one of the yacht rental companies. His past makes the job a doddle, but it allows him to keep a low profile while still making a bit of a living by tipping off pirates on particularly lucrative parties setting sail. Will also do repair jobs for runners on most ground and water vehicle types from his shop.
Divine Virus
I don't mind if emotitoys etc are scrapped.
I don't think RPOL is worth loosing DH.
Would anyone object to some NPCs having special rules?
For example, I am considering putting together a NPC named "Helen" who is absolutely brilliant with cybertechnology, but overenthusiastic and not enterly mentally stable for this reason, if, when she is performing surgery to install a new peice of 'ware, a glitch is rolled, instead of the normal effect of a glitch, instead it reprisents Helen getting carried away and installing something additional. In effect, the person gains a 5 point mystery mod negative quality. On a critical glitch, the person gets a 10 point mystery mod. It is presumed that Helen's madness is countered by such genius that she would never actually have a normal glitch or critical glitch.

Also, I have noticed that the AI is slightly imbalanced in the karmagen system. For only 186 karma, an AI can have 3 stats at 5, 1 stat at 6. And thats all its stats (except for essence of course). In BP chargen, this would have cost 185 BP, and the player would have had to of spent an additional 110 BP on the AI metatype. Personally I have no objection, but if anyone wants to crack down on me, now would be a good time to speak up.

There are some other questions that come up with my idea as well.
1) If I am AI with 10 point piloting origen quality jumped into an Otomo body, do I use a targetting autosoft to fire a gun the drone is holding, or the firearms skill, or will either work? When running, do I use the maneuver autosoft, or the athletics skill, or either? Etc, etc, etc
2) Are AIs jumped into an Otomo ambidextrous?

Also, Fuchs already said we would work out a way to be able to afford and have access to the 250k, availibility 24 otomo body. How do we want to work this out? In my background, the body was stolen straight from the factory, which the AI had access to because thats where it came into existance.
Any idea how I should reprisent this in chargen?

Thanks!
DV
Fuchs
DV, the NPC sounds good.

I'd suggest a house rule of applying race cost in karma gen at double the BP. Restricted gear quality should cover the availability. I'd think using the indebt flaw, but considering the payments as maintenance costs for the body should be balanced. How the bidy was aquired is fluff, so the stolen explanation works out.

Overchord that sounds good, as PC or NPC.

Also, I think it's best to check characters once they are finished. In my pen and paper game, I don't really care about how something was built, only about how the end result looks.
Divine Virus
The problem with indept is it only gives up to 30k nuyen. Even if I used all my normal nuyen cap on just buying the thing, that doesn't leave much money for setting myself up as a runner.

EDIT: Huh. I was sure that a Otomo cost 250,000 but it is only 150,000. I should be alright then.
BlackHat
There is also the "born rich" quality that lets you use up to 60 BPs (or 120 karma) on money ,for starting cash of 300,000. (330,000, if in debt)

Of course, neither born rich or in debt are on the list of qualities AI may take - but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't make sense to houserule such a thing. wink.gif

*lurking*

Edit: Also, as mentioned previously by DV, restricted gear only allows up to availability 20 (and also isn't on the AI list of qualities they may take).
Divine Virus
Well, for an AI, reaching sentience in a position of control in an otomo factory probably counts as being "Born Rich"

Now, another question. The rules stat that most vehicles and drones have a six hour batter life, but that it is not always the case. Some have more. The Otomo strikes me as a drone that probably has more, as its very purpose is to function as a prosthetic body. To me it seems reasonible to have at least 16 hours of juice (average human wake cycle), probably 18 or 20 for a safety margin. Does this seem reasonable?
BlackHat
QUOTE (Divine Virus @ Jan 16 2009, 09:01 AM) *
Well, for an AI, reaching sentience in a position of control in an otomo factory probably counts as being "Born Rich"

Agreed. That is one of the few situations where it would be used literally. I think those quality restrictions are silly in most cases anyway.
Fuchs
That sounds reasonable.
Fuchs
Approved Overchord.

So, proposed house rules:

- No emotityos
- Restricted gear goes above Availability 20 (subject to GM approval)
- Racial cost (BP*2) in karma gen
overchord
Quick question - Being a mechanic for boats and having a day job working on parts for a yacht rental company i'll buy a facility for that kind of mechanics. Is that restricted to water crafts of can the same facility be used for ground-type vehicles? I'm happy either way, jsut thinking that thee will be a lot of common tools for motors, but also some deviation for e.g. hull repairs vs. body work on ground vehicles.

ReverendMo
Quick question, how do you all tend to look at cyberspurs? As in, is the nuyen/essence per individual spur, or would that be a set of two?
ReverendMo
Overchord, I could personally see a lot of similar tools used on the internal mechanics such as engines, though some of the vast differences would make most heavy work undoable. It's doubtful the facility would have a carlift when it's built more for drydocking ships, but touch-ups, tune-ups and minor to moderate work wouldn't be too tough I'd think. Just my 0.02 nuyen.
Fuchs
Off-hand I'd say that the facility can serve as a toolkit or such for ground vehicles, but not as a facility for ground vehicles.

Equally off-hand, I think that like with hand razors, as long as the spur's effect is not changed (no dual-wielding effect or such), it can be on both hands without additional costs.
Divine Virus
That reminds me of another question. The mechanical arms that the Otomo have can apparently be upgraded with cyberware as if it were a cyberarm, but there are no specific rules for doing so. Shall we just say it has capacity as a normal obvious cyberlimb (or synthetic cyberlinb with the mimic vehicle mod)?
ReverendMo
Divine, that was my rough understanding of the drone/cyborg chassis limbs, though for the Otomo it'd be the synthetic capacity due to mimic coming standard. Keep in mind that also means the limbs have the same base stats too though, so that's another potential starting nuyen sink if you want better than 3 in physical attributes, and that does tend to work best if all limbs match attributes.
Divine Virus
It does specifically state the limbs have a strength equal to drone body (6).
The rules do not say these are cyberlimbs, only that they can be given upgrades as if they were cyberlimbs.
At least, that is my interpretation.
ReverendMo
Aha, took cracking about in Augmentation but I found the attributes...
Strength = Drone's Body rating
Agility = Vehicle skill + Handling
Reaction = Response rating
Initiative = Intuition + Response
4 IP
Perception = Sensor or Intuition, whichever is lower
Movement rate = Drone's speed

while this is listed for a cyborg with integrated commlink, I don't think it'd be much different at all for an AI inhabitant. You'd just have the jarhead space open (maybe for storing a muffin? Thank you Gir).
Divine Virus
Damn, now I actually might need to keep a muffin in there. I could have sworn that agility was always response. I will need to investigate that myself
BlackHat
You're not crazy. I thought the same thing when I played an AI in a drone - never saw the above stuff in Augmentation, though.

In Arsenal, it does say that a drone using mechanical arms to do things (Blades is the example) uses response + skill rating + handling.

Obviously, an AI has no trouble getting its response to 9 or 10 - which means it would do EVERYTHING well.

Using the rules for cyborgs are probably more balanced (AI can still dodge like a mother-f-er, but will likely have agility in the 5-8 range, with the option to go higher if handling or the skill is maxed out)

*shrugs* Probably a GM call.
ReverendMo
It likely is a balance issue between drones and cyborgs, given the notion that both have to work around the restrictions of their physical forms but a cyborg would be considered more of a front-stage player rather than a support role that most drones end up being used for.

From a mechanical/rational standpoint, there'd be no difference between the two, regardless of whether or not the cyborg had an AI or a brain in it, as a drone can be jumped into just the same. But drones seem to be looked at as second-fiddle autonomous helpers, so their attributes/skills didn't get quite the attention they deserve.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012