Full Version: Upgrading a commlink seems broken
I'm not up on all the latest dumpshock lingo, I am assuming that Agent Smith is an agent that you load on your cyberdeck/commlink, and he has rating 5 everything, and he helps you out in dealing with pesky IC and stuff, am I right?
Not quite. agent smith refers to the matrix movies where Neo has to fight off an endless supply of matrix agents, whom are duplicates of agent smith. The original agent smith in SR4 comes from the duplication/copying rules as presented in the BBB, aka you took one agent and cracked the source code, copied the agent a couple of hundred times and send them to do a tast on the matrix.
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 8 2009, 02:53 PM) 
Know anyone who has built their own blackberry? Ok, how about their own iPhone? Small, highly integrated electronics packages are hard for hobbyists who don't own their own fab to build from scratch. I'd actually expect that the active electronics in a comlink are a single chip and the rest of the package is battery, antenna and interface. Oh, and that chip is fairly tamper resistant, so you have to pay the "right" vendors for your phone calls.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page
I believe the intention was the upgraded value could be purchased straight out. However, I instituted a rule that a Commlink's attributes can only be upgraded to a maximum of 1.5 times the original value. This is a convention that is widely present in SR already so it seemed like a natural fit for me.
QUOTE (Marduc @ Mar 9 2009, 12:25 PM)
Not quite. agent smith refers to the matrix movies where Neo has to fight off an endless supply of matrix agents, whom are duplicates of agent smith. The original agent smith in SR4 comes from the duplication/copying rules as presented in the BBB, aka you took one agent and cracked the source code, copied the agent a couple of hundred times and send them to do a tast on the matrix.
I got the referance, didn't know as to what the slang meant in terms of SR. Thanks for the info.
QUOTE (Blade @ Mar 9 2009, 07:01 AM)
I'm impressed by how deep your knowledge about 2070's electronics are, to be able to tell that you can directly buy a rating 6 reponse upgrade rather than pay for each cumulative upgrade.
Seriously, I agree that the wording is poor and doesn't tell whether it's cumulative or not, but with the choice between a broken and a not broken solution, I prefer choosing the not broken than choosing the broken one and complaining on Dumpshock about it.
Seriously, I agree that the wording is poor and doesn't tell whether it's cumulative or not, but with the choice between a broken and a not broken solution, I prefer choosing the not broken than choosing the broken one and complaining on Dumpshock about it.
I do agree with you that for my game I'm going to use a cumulative method as it is less broken, I brought this to the attention of Dumpshock because usually there isn't this big of a loophole in an RPG's rules. It usually gets flushed out in playtesting. When you graph out the rules for everything else in the game it seems to follow a standard curve and there isn't a discount or penalty for upgrading. I was supprise this didn't add up.
Presonally I'm going to try to figure out a formula for calculating the upgrades fairly so they match the comlink prices (again for my games only).
QUOTE (Degausser @ Mar 9 2009, 05:42 PM)
I got the referance, didn't know as to what the slang meant in terms of SR. Thanks for the info.
agent smith and hack-a-stack are two terms thats loved by people that want to point out how "broken" the SR4 system is, compared to the pre-SR4 system...
funny thing is that back then the matrix system was more often then not seen as to cumbersome to even bother playing
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 9 2009, 06:05 PM)
agent smith and hack-a-stack are two terms thats loved by people that want to point out how "broken" the SR4 system is, compared to the pre-SR4 system...
Not necessarily compared to the pre-SR4 system. It can also be compared to the houserule created by their superior minds.
Speaking of SR4 being misinterpreted as broken, those calling a cyberlimb cluster cheesy should take note that if this Hacker-Sam loses a cybercombat, all his 'ware crashes. I'd say that's enough of a risk to justify the convenience.
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 9 2009, 01:05 PM)
agent smith and hack-a-stack are two terms thats loved by people that want to point out how "broken" the SR4 system is, compared to the pre-SR4 system...
funny thing is that back then the matrix system was more often then not seen as to cumbersome to even bother playing
funny thing is that back then the matrix system was more often then not seen as to cumbersome to even bother playing
Those particular "issues" have been massively overblown. They were based on an assumption made in an area that the rules were silent on (previously, errata has corrected that). It was a classic case of "the rules don't say that I can't" which is something that happens all the time to pretty much every RPG I've ever known. So, as I said: overblown.
QUOTE (Blade @ Mar 9 2009, 06:13 PM)
Not necessarily compared to the pre-SR4 system. It can also be compared to the houserule created by their superior minds.
"superior", and i may agree...
QUOTE (Malachi @ Mar 9 2009, 06:32 PM)
Those particular "issues" have been massively overblown. They were based on an assumption made in an area that the rules were silent on (previously, errata has corrected that). It was a classic case of "the rules don't say that I can't" which is something that happens all the time to pretty much every RPG I've ever known. So, as I said: overblown.
and i highly agree on that. i much prefer ocham's razor to ocham's bulldozer
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 9 2009, 09:33 AM)
This sadly seems to be missing the part about how you make it at home from parts you salvaged from your toaster. Buying a box and writing software isn't exactly what we are talking about in SR.
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 9 2009, 09:45 AM)
I do agree with you that for my game I'm going to use a cumulative method as it is less broken, I brought this to the attention of Dumpshock because usually there isn't this big of a loophole in an RPG's rules. It usually gets flushed out in playtesting.
SR playtesting has been a serious issue for the last edition (at the very least). They are trying to fix it, see the sticky. Oops - no sticky anymore.
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 9 2009, 02:17 PM)
This sadly seems to be missing the part about how you make it at home from parts you salvaged from your toaster. Buying a box and writing software isn't exactly what we are talking about in SR.
The schematics to build the phone are there, you just have to dig for them but your right it's off topic.
On a side note if you need help with playtesting I know a group that has done playtesting for WOTC and their contributions have made it into published books. Contact me offline and I can make the proper introductions if you will like.
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 9 2009, 09:17 PM)
This sadly seems to be missing the part about how you make it at home from parts you salvaged from your toaster. Buying a box and writing software isn't exactly what we are talking about in SR.
a better example may have been http://buglabs.net/
QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 9 2009, 01:32 PM)
On a side note if you need help with playtesting I know a group that has done playtesting for WOTC and their contributions have made it into published books. Contact me offline and I can make the proper introductions if you will like.
Tiger Eyes was recruiting.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=25487
QUOTE (kzt @ Mar 9 2009, 03:17 PM)
This sadly seems to be missing the part about how you make it at home from parts you salvaged from your toaster. Buying a box and writing software isn't exactly what we are talking about in SR.
kzt... you're trying to equate something in the real world to an imagined world where EVERYTHING is computerized. I mean come on, when your fraggin underware has a computer, then you know reality got tossed out the window!
To everyone else, why would commlinks be the ONLY piece of gear that you need to upgrade one step at a time? I don't hear anyone saying: "Well to get Wired Reflexes 3, I have to upgrade my Wired 1 to Wired 2, and then to Wired 3... DAMN that's fragging expensive!"
No, I would think that if the writers were thinking step by step upgrade of the commlink then they would have corrected it in the errata or through the MULTIPLE printings of the BBB. I mean they DID fix the "If you have a cyber commlink then you get a SIM module for free*." in later printings of the BBB.
* = I STILL think that if you have a cyber commlink then getting a SIM module built in is NOT game breaking. I mean it can be built into a cyberlimb.
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