Macbrea
Jan 14 2004, 09:46 PM
I have been trying to find a location of the rules for Doc wagons resuscitation. According to the rules they will arrive in X number of minutes and perform a resuscitation on the patient. But, by the rules you would seem to have to be very lucky in order to not die before they get there.
Example:
Roger finds himself in a firefight in a A rated security sector. Roger (body 3) has taken a light wound. He has docwagon super platinum account. Later in the fight he gets very unlucky and suddenly takes a deadly wound. By the rules he has exactly 8 rounds before he bleeds to death or 48 seconds. It is very unlikely they will arrive there before 2 to 3 minutes.
Is there a set of rules for them bringing him back?
moosegod
Jan 14 2004, 10:23 PM
I'd go with the response rules presented in New Seattle for cops as a basis, personally.
Kagetenshi
Jan 14 2004, 10:26 PM
I'd say that the biomonitor on the Super-Platinum would trigger at Serious damage, even Moderate if you set it to.
~J
thunderchild
Jan 14 2004, 10:51 PM
QUOTE (Macbrea) |
I have been trying to find a location of the rules for Doc wagons resuscitation. According to the rules they will arrive in X number of minutes and perform a resuscitation on the patient. But, by the rules you would seem to have to be very lucky in order to not die before they get there.
Example:
Roger finds himself in a firefight in a A rated security sector. Roger (body 3) has taken a light wound. He has docwagon super platinum account. Later in the fight he gets very unlucky and suddenly takes a deadly wound. By the rules he has exactly 8 rounds before he bleeds to death or 48 seconds. It is very unlikely they will arrive there before 2 to 3 minutes.
Is there a set of rules for them bringing him back? |
Thats if nobody, including Roger himself attempts first aid or tries to top the bleeding ect ect.
Arethusa
Jan 14 2004, 11:35 PM
The death rules are really designed with speed based combat in mind, not any sane sense of how long it actually takes to die.
Diesel
Jan 15 2004, 12:33 AM
People die entirely too slow or far too quickly, yes. Certain things should make you dead, dead, dead. Other's should be a fun bit of bleeding out. Any ideas?
Siege
Jan 15 2004, 12:53 AM
Tough decision, really. A hit to the femoral artery will get you dead PDQ.
On the flip side, a gut shot will keep you alive but unhappy for a while.
A suggested houserule:
After receiving a Deadly wound, roll Body + Willpower against the following TN#s.
5 minutes: TN 4
10 minutes: TN 6
15 minutes: TN 8
30 minutes: TN 10
60+ minutes: TN 12 (rolled every minute)
Fail any of these rolls and your character is ghoul bait.
Mind you, in this near-death moment, the character is doing nothing but expiring slowly and hoping a medic appears before the organleggers show up.
-Siege
Diesel
Jan 15 2004, 02:16 AM
I'd give them one last action. Like setting off a bomb or something. Yeah.
Macbrea
Jan 15 2004, 02:53 PM
So, what your saying is its just pointless to actually buy docwagon contracts. If there is no way your going to survive anyways. Whats the point of it. Wasted money?
DV8
Jan 15 2004, 03:04 PM
No, of course not. If you're going to get shot to snot, then you will, but if you're smart, and manage to live for the two to four minutes it takes for one of the roving DocWagon teams to pick you up, then you'll be better off with a DocWagon contract then without.
Stop trying to squeeze into a game mechanic and see the validity of it in 2060. This isn't just for Shadowrunners who go into a corporate compound (where DocWagon can't even go anyway), guns blazing. This is for normal people getting knifed over a pair of shoes, or a synth-leather designer briefcase, or people getting trampled by the Kabuki Ronin along the I5 north, etc.
toturi
Jan 15 2004, 03:14 PM
Which means if you are a good runner, you'll never need it anyways since you should outclass any common criminal you run across.
Kagetenshi
Jan 15 2004, 03:29 PM
You can outclass someone and still take a bullet in the gut from them.
~J
Macbrea
Jan 15 2004, 03:35 PM
The reason I asked is because the system states they do resuscitations. What do those mean? Is that applying first aid if they get there in time. Or using advanced medical equipment to bring someone back from the dead. Who has been dead for less then 8 minutes.
If you got in a car accident today and took a wound the put you unconscious there is still a pretty good chance you would survive. With "Life Flight" helicopters they can get you to a trauma center pretty quick.
toturi
Jan 15 2004, 03:50 PM
QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
You can outclass someone and still take a bullet in the gut from them.
~J |
Yes, but you should be able to put that bullet in him before he puts it in you. Or persuade him to put it in himself first.
LoseAsDirected
Jan 15 2004, 03:53 PM
Hey, even the fastest gun bunny sometimes fudges an initiative roll, while that punk with a few levels of Boosted Reflexes rolls all 6's..
Before you know it, you've got a belly full of lead, and all the 'experience' and 'reputation' mean nothing when compared to a good medic/DocWagon team.
MrSandman666
Jan 15 2004, 03:56 PM
As a runner I wouldn't ever take a DocWagon contract anyways because:
1) I most likely won't have a SIN and I could bet their background checks are pretty thorough.
2) They WILL start asking questions or start handing me over to people I don't want to be handed over to when they find me loaded with weapons that clearly aren't for self defense and several bullets in my body lying somewhere I shouldn't be.
3) Most places I'll be lying around bleeding to death they couldn't or wouldn't get to anyways, like corporate territory, wilderness outside the city or even country, other countries... They would enter such areas if given permission but which corp or government in their right mind would give them permission to rescue an introduder?
4) Such a contract requires me to file a tissue sample. Am I crazy? Providing a ritual sample they
could possibly give to anyone who is superior to them or pays enough money?
5) This wrist band serves as a homing beacon. Something says me this is not a good idea to always run around emitting radio waves when breaking into a corp facility. I may be paranoid, but better paranoig than dead.
6) The wrist bands emit an audible alarm when my life signs go critical. Might as well post a sign saying "Hey I'm not dead yet and a Doc Wagon team is heading my way. Please shoot me again and throw me into the Puget Sound!"
I never really saw the point in getting a Doc Wagon contract as a runner. It's more of a thing for private eyes or social workers or so. People with a SIN who legaly run around in dangerous places. Or ordinary people who are just afraid to be assaulted and robbed in the streets. Of course a DW Contract might come in handy for a runner as well but only if he's not currently running. And there's no way of switching off the wristband without tugging along some kind of jamming device which would also interupt inter-team radio communication.
just my 0.02$
Shockwave_IIc
Jan 15 2004, 04:04 PM
And that MrSandman just happens to be
all of the reason why i did't have one.
I'm retired now you see
toturi
Jan 15 2004, 04:09 PM
QUOTE (LoseAsDirected) |
Hey, even the fastest gun bunny sometimes fudges an initiative roll, while that punk with a few levels of Boosted Reflexes rolls all 6's..
Before you know it, you've got a belly full of lead, and all the 'experience' and 'reputation' mean nothing when compared to a good medic/DocWagon team. |
And if you have a belly full of lead, you would do well to pray to God and hope He has mercy on your miserable soul than to pray that DocWagon reaches you in time. DocWagon is good only if the opposition isn't determined to making your being dead a permanent condition. Or if you have a lot of damage overflow boxes.
Kagetenshi
Jan 15 2004, 04:21 PM
If you take a lot of damage and then stumble out into the street, running through the city while bleeding your guts out, you can call DocWagon.
Also, this is a flavour choice on the part of the GM, but in a sufficiently dystopian world DocWagon isn't going to care much about the heavily-armed runner they just picked up, because they do it all the time and the fact that they do do it all the time means they don't get hit very often. Either that or you have a double-price "discretionary service" contract where little matters like how you got an undetonated LAW stuck in your torso or why you were carrying around Ares' latest prototype laser rifle get ignored.
I say again, medical attention does not have to be for when you hit Deadly. I know that in real life if I ever take something that I judge to be a Serious wound I'll probably be seeking immediate medical attention. If the run was incomplete then yes, they'd go on and finish it, but if they're wandering through the streets of Tacoma with a big hole in them that just hasn't quite managed to incapacitate them, well, they've got a free ride to the hospital now.
~J
LoseAsDirected
Jan 15 2004, 04:39 PM
Everyone here should read Blackjack's comments on the condition monitor, and how to accurately role play that out.. It matches my thoughts to the T, and is exactly how I run my games, or play my characters.
Also, DocWagon (as was noted above) rescues runners all the time. They could care less why you've been shot, or what you have on you.. There's a reason you pay them upwards of 50-100 thousand nuyen a year (plus additional fees).. So they can save your hoop..
Will DocWagon break into the Renraku Arcology to save you? No. Will they fly into the CFS? No. But, hey.. In a game with as high a death count as Shadowrun (which, by my estimates is exactly 10,000,000 times more lethal than D&D), you need every edge you can get.. That means if you've got 10,000+ nuyen laying around, might as well take out a DocWagon contract, and at least give yourself a slightly higher chance of surviving.
And, personally, I would seek medical attention if I so much as got a light physical wound.
BitBasher
Jan 15 2004, 04:49 PM
QUOTE |
1) I most likely won't have a SIN and I could bet their background checks are pretty thorough. |
Even a cheap sin (rating 4, 4000Y) will pretty likely get you a doc wagon band.
QUOTE |
2) They WILL start asking questions or start handing me over to people I don't want to be handed over to when they find me loaded with weapons that clearly aren't for self defense and several bullets in my body lying somewhere I shouldn't be. |
No, they won't doc wagon is a AA and they are extraterritorial. They also have confidentiality clauses in their contract.
QUOTE |
3) Most places I'll be lying around bleeding to death they couldn't or wouldn't get to anyways, like corporate territory, wilderness outside the city or even country, other countries... They would enter such areas if given permission but which corp or government in their right mind would give them permission to rescue an introduder? |
While the corp territory is absolutely true theres always a chance in the winderness that they could send an ariel unit, a la "flight for life". Rules are also provided for coverage in other cities or even foreign countries through which doc wagon maintains working relationships with the local equivalent. But since it's a AA multinational the key word is "multinational"... they are all over the place in other countries.
QUOTE |
4) Such a contract requires me to file a tissue sample. Am I crazy? Providing a ritual sample they could possibly give to anyone who is superior to them or pays enough money? |
This would destoy the entire foundation of their business. They could never do this without losing pretty much every contract they have worth having.
QUOTE |
5) This wrist band serves as a homing beacon. Something says me this is not a good idea to always run around emitting radio waves when breaking into a corp facility. I may be paranoid, but better paranoig than dead. |
Wrong, its a sealed band write cellular conection that ONLY activates when you break the seal on the band. Otherwise it is completely inter and broadcasts nothing.
QUOTE |
6) The wrist bands emit an audible alarm when my life signs go critical. Might as well post a sign saying "Hey I'm not dead yet and a Doc Wagon team is heading my way. Please shoot me again and throw me into the Puget Sound!" |
There is no canon material that there is an audible anything. Furthermore, no bands automatically activate except platinum and super platinum, and all those do is automatically place a call a Doc Wagon when you take a modrate wound. These 2 contracts also cost 100k and 250k anually if I recall. No SR will be using either of those anyway.
There's a lot of misconceptions about docwagon.
moosegod
Jan 15 2004, 04:53 PM
QUOTE |
This would destoy the entire foundation of their business. They could never do this without losing pretty much every contract they have worth having. |
Actually, since much of their contracts are from other corps, they just might. Now, it's going to be hush-hush, of course, but it still might happen.
And DocWagon isn't going to hold onto major murderers (or other people with lots of media attention). After all, who in their right mind would get a contract with someone that protects criminals.
Note: Shadowrunners do not count as being in their right minds.
MrSandman666
Jan 15 2004, 05:05 PM
QUOTE (BBB pg. 303) |
...which also serves as a homing beacon for roving Doc Wagon ambulances...
|
QUOTE (BBB pg. 304) |
Super-platinum wristphone also contains a biomonitor that will automatically call DocWagon if the client's life signs ever stray beyong 'safe' parameters, as well as triggering an audible alarm.
|
Nowhere do I find a passge about any privacy clauses in their contracts. I think, when Lone Star, Knight Errant or any other Law Inforcement firm or corporation with a believable suspicion will ask, they will provide the information and/or the tissue samples for astral tracking. I don't believe that they would stand in the way of an operation, making headlines as a corporation sheltering criminals and hindering the solving of crimes.
And if you are suspected to be a criminal (i.e. lie around somewhere you shouldn't be with weapons you shouldn't own and possibly even some stolen good) they WILL ask questions. They will most likely also try to contact the owner of the place where they found you and make inquiries whether you belong to the staff or at least inform them. Yes, they could be assholes and use their extrateritoriality to give shelter for criminals (a.k.a. Shadowrunners) but they still get most of their customers from corps or normal families and they have a reputation to lose. So they will cooperate with the local law enforcements and other corps. At the very least they will wait until a case has been filed and a verdict been spoken as to whether you're guilty or not. And they will most likely provide the sample for astral tracking if you don't show up at the trial.
BitBasher
Jan 15 2004, 05:17 PM
QUOTE |
Nowhere do I find a passge about any privacy clauses in their contracts. |
Have you read the expanded docwagon section out of the NAGTRL sourcebook?
QUOTE |
I think, when Lone Star, Knight Errant or any other Law Inforcement firm or corporation with a believable suspicion will ask, they will provide the information and/or the tissue samples for astral tracking. |
Absolutely not. Doc Wagon is not a hospital, they are an extraterritorial multinational corporation the same ranking as Lone Star, being AA. They are one single step below the big 10. They are not a small corp that bends to demands they are one of the largest corps out there.
QUOTE |
I don't believe that they would stand in the way of an operation, making headlines as a corporation sheltering criminals and hindering the solving of crimes. |
Heh, they are payed 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars a year to do their job and not ask questions. Why do you think archtypes have docwagon contracts instead of going to a hospital
![nyahnyah.gif](http://invision.dumpshock.com/html/emoticons/nyahnyah.gif)
Doc Wagon is NOT a public service organization, they are a megacorporation interested on the bottom line. They have absolutely zero responsibility to turn anyone over to law enforcement.
Read NAGTRL, or a later sourcebook if the dogwagon section was reprinted, but I dont think it was. In the shadowtalk in that book SR's spoke positively of using docwagon for many of the reasons I have listed.
nezumi
Jan 15 2004, 06:01 PM
Yeah, I'd have to agree with BitBasher. Think of it from the other side, your local CEO engaged in white collar crimes pretty regularly. There's no telling what kind of stuff he might have on him if he's ambushed by his enemies. Stolen data, cash, illegal substances... who knows. Nor is he going to trust a corporation with a material link if he has the slightest concern as to what's going to happen to it. It wouldn't make sense for Docwagon to make a big fuss about its clients, because the best clients are going to be brought in with illegal stuff in unusual circumstances and won't like letting their DNA wander just anywhere. He's not going to let his employees get it if there's ever any chance of their being involved with illegal stuff either (and we are talking about corps, not convents here). Even if BitBasher is wrong, I'd prefer to be under arrest than underground.
When it comes down to it though, it really depends on how your GM implements it. If your GM straps a glowing beacon to you and promises to turn you over to the cops after patching you up, it's probably a bum deal. If they actually try and help you and customize their services to the demands of the customer, it's $10k well spent.
BitBasher
Jan 15 2004, 06:05 PM
Nezuni is ultimately right, It's all up to the way your GM runs it. Whatever works for your game
fourstring_samurai
Jan 15 2004, 06:20 PM
what source book has the SIN ratings in it?
after reading this thread, i'm thinking of implementing a new system in my game,
requiring the players to have a SIN rating of X to qualify for Contract rating Y.
MrSandman666
Jan 15 2004, 06:56 PM
Well, as to whether it's better to be alive and arrested than dead and free is another discussion all in itself. Considering how LoneStar is rumoured to handle SINless inmates I would probably rather be dead. And life with a criminal SIN isn't exactly fun either, however that is a problem that can be solved...
Unfortunately I don't own NAGTRL or know anyone who does so I can't read this section. The only section I know about that contains material about DocWagon is the BBB, but I have a flaky memory so I might just have forgotten. If there's any reference in the newer 3rd Edition source books that I have missed, please do point me at it.
I agree that they are not a small corp that bends to any demands because they have to. I'm just saying they're cooperating in order to not damage their business and drop from AA status to mere multinational because they don't get support from other corps, because the Big 10 start picking on it, because government don't allow them to operate on their grounds (which would be a heavy hit). Let alone all the customers running away when they hear how DocWagon nurishes crime by healing and sheltering known criminals. And these headlines will most definately be in he news as soon as anybody hears about this.
A runner gets shot during a B&E run in a Mitsuhama facility. They manage to escape, of course with Mitsuhama security on their heels. They are taken away by a DocWagon van, causing Mitsuhama to call DocWagon, asking for them to turn the runner over. They refuse. Mitsuhama gets angry and decides to teach this cocky AA a lesson and turns to the press, saying how they managed to prevent a terrorist attack but terrorist is now sheltered by DocWagon. This news will be around the planet in a matter of hours. Let this happen two or three times and consumers are going to start cancelling their contracts by the thousands. DocWagon isn't going to like this. So, whenever somebody wants to have you, they will get you. Or the tissue sample.
It's simply a matter of strategy, not of power or anything.
Of course, if you pay them enough money to remain quiet they will do so. Until someone asks for you.
And most CEOs might be inolved in white collar crimes but those are usually the kinds you don't carry around with you. They are corporate politics crimes. Well, if they are in bad luck they might get shot when coming back from their BTL dealer or something. But what's the chance of that?
Of course, it's ultimately up the GM how to handle this. This is just my way to handle it in my games.
Fahr
Jan 15 2004, 07:31 PM
my .02
some of these arguments are relying on an aspect of capitalism that may not apply here. DocWagon is the biggest most widespread hospital and EMS service that there is. even if they are doing things that are downright illegal, as joe wageslave, are you going to refuse your company provided docwagon contract because you think they are harboring criminals?
what about the people in lower strata, do you think they are gonna cancel cause the Doc kept the star off some criminals back? no way! they are much more likely to GET a contract cause DocW is not turning them in.
as for CEOs and such, they would just as soon not be given to other enemy corps cause the pressure was on..
No from a press perspective, harbouring criminals might actually benefit DocWagons bottom line.
and that ignores all the prople with no choice at all, where it's either DocW or nothing, who is going to choose nothing? They are effectively a monopoly in many places.
Additionally, If you are top Exec at Mitshuma, and you piss of the DocW people, they have YOUR ritual sample most likely too, and wouldn't it be shame if it fell into the wrong hands because you don't like DocWagons privacy policies.... Just cause they offer medical services doesn't mean they don't hire runners on there own to deal with just the sort of press you are talking about.
-Mike R.
Solstice
Jan 15 2004, 09:36 PM
QUOTE (LoseAsDirected) |
Hey, even the fastest gun bunny sometimes fudges an initiative roll, while that punk with a few levels of Boosted Reflexes rolls all 6's..
Before you know it, you've got a belly full of lead, and all the 'experience' and 'reputation' mean nothing when compared to a good medic/DocWagon team. |
I doubt that would happen since a PC would have tons of combat dice in the dodge pool or whatever and it would be very, very statistically unlikely that they could not get more successess than a street punk.
RedmondLarry
Jan 15 2004, 09:44 PM
Solstice, the words you're looking for are Combat Pool dice used for Dodge Test. And a samurai that loses a Surprise Test in an ambush situation to a street punk doen't get to use Combat Pool when shot by that punk. Bullets do find targets, sometimes even in the best runners. DocWagon/Street Docs do have their uses.
Sunday_Gamer
Jan 15 2004, 09:55 PM
QUOTE (MrSandman666) |
As a runner I wouldn't ever take a DocWagon contract anyways because: 1) I most likely won't have a SIN and I could bet their background checks are pretty thorough. 2) They WILL start asking questions or start handing me over to people I don't want to be handed over to when they find me loaded with weapons that clearly aren't for self defense and several bullets in my body lying somewhere I shouldn't be. 3) Most places I'll be lying around bleeding to death they couldn't or wouldn't get to anyways, like corporate territory, wilderness outside the city or even country, other countries... They would enter such areas if given permission but which corp or government in their right mind would give them permission to rescue an introduder? 4) Such a contract requires me to file a tissue sample. Am I crazy? Providing a ritual sample they could possibly give to anyone who is superior to them or pays enough money? 5) This wrist band serves as a homing beacon. Something says me this is not a good idea to always run around emitting radio waves when breaking into a corp facility. I may be paranoid, but better paranoig than dead. 6) The wrist bands emit an audible alarm when my life signs go critical. Might as well post a sign saying "Hey I'm not dead yet and a Doc Wagon team is heading my way. Please shoot me again and throw me into the Puget Sound!"
I never really saw the point in getting a Doc Wagon contract as a runner. It's more of a thing for private eyes or social workers or so. People with a SIN who legaly run around in dangerous places. Or ordinary people who are just afraid to be assaulted and robbed in the streets. Of course a DW Contract might come in handy for a runner as well but only if he's not currently running. And there's no way of switching off the wristband without tugging along some kind of jamming device which would also interupt inter-team radio communication.
just my 0.02$ |
DOC Wagon's tissue samples and the information contained therein are among the most secure locations in my gameworld. You are NOT getting in there and stealing someone's DNA sample, as has been pointed out, if those samples weren't ultra uber mega protected, they'd have gone bankrupt years ago.
They don't ask questions except things like "You're asking for coverage beyond the scope of your current contract, how will you be paying for this?"
I don't know where you got the tracking device/ audible alarm stuff, that just ain't so. Name 1 Shadowrunner who wants to wear a traking device or something that makes noise when he gets hurt?
I am reminded of an amusing Doc Wagon story in which my players got caught in the middle of a rather nasty firefight in a nasty part of town. There was a go-gang, a corporate Black Ops team and some Yaks.
Well stray bullets and poor choices for cover got a couple people shot and being "not the most cohesive" unit, it quickly deteriorated to every runner for himself. One of the sams was seriously wounded in the legs and dragged himself behind some crates and activated his Doc Wagon. A shaman, also seriously injured, had crawled into a dumpster and activates HIS Doc Wagon bracelet. The sam had basic coverage and the shammy had platinum coverage.
A few minutes later a large Docwagon armored hovervehicle crests the nearby buildings and hovers over the fight, floodlights filling the alley.
This is Doc Wagon, please hold your fire. We are fulfilling contractual obligations and require to extract a customer from this alley, we say again hold your fire.
Doc Wagon personnel will only fire if fired upon, hold your fire and we will be on our way in 30 seconds.
The entire alley held it's fire and breath. Almost everyone there HAD a docwagon contract and didn't want to damage their standing by shooting at a Doc Wagon employee.
The vehicle landed and several well armed and armored men came out, homing in on the garbage container and extracting the injured shammy. As they were removing the shammy, guns visible on every rooftop and window. The sam called out to one of the Doc Wagon employees.
"Hey I called you guys too! Get me out of here!"
The employee paused a second as he communicated with headquarters.
"I'm sorry sir but your contract doesn't cover or make provisions from extraction from combat zones, kindly relocate to a safer area and our personel will arrive within 5 minutes, thank you for using Doc Wagon."
and they all got on the transport and flew off, leaving the sam bleeding behind some crates, cursing.
The shammy thought it was funny but then, he wasn't being shot at anymore.
Sunday.
MrSandman666
Jan 15 2004, 10:00 PM
Those situations make playing Shadowrun worthwhile!
![biggrin.gif](http://invision.dumpshock.com/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
About where I got the stuff with the audible alarm and tracker device from: as I stated above I got it from the Basic Shadowrun Rulebook (BBB or Big Black Book) page 304. However, I did miss the point that this is only true for super-platinum contracts. Everything below that doesn't have a tracker or an alarm.
RedmondLarry
Jan 15 2004, 10:19 PM
In our campaign, DocWagon doesn't care what country you are a citizen of, why you are in town, or whether you have a Passport, Visa, or SIN. Like the phone company, it doesn't turn away anyone who wants to give it money up front for services that may or may not be needed at some future time yet to be determined.
Also in our campaign, DocWagon corporate policy is to fully comply with any and all national, state, and local laws. And those laws state that the Clinic or Hospital that treats a gunshot wound must notify the authorities, not the ambulance service.
Also in our campaign, DocWagon personnel risk their lives for a salary. So when a customer offers to double the salary of everyone on the chopper for the week just to get special treatment or be dropped off somewhere special, they are happy to oblige. Hell, they'll pull the customer's friends out of the fire too if the bribe is right. And write anything in the log book that the customer asks.
Treat your local DocWagon crew as people who see the real world. They see the poverty and misery and gangs and homeless and auto crashes and plane crashes and house fires and suicides and drownings and their corporation tells them not to help anyone other than the rich, pre-paid, customers.
Fahr
Jan 15 2004, 11:12 PM
I actually ran a campaing where the PCs started out as a Docwagon team and ended up quiting because of the Corporate rules about helping those that were not "under contract" was a lot of fun to run from that perspective...
they ended up jumping ship with company resources and hiding out in amazonia...
Solstice
Jan 15 2004, 11:49 PM
QUOTE (OurTeam @ Jan 15 2004, 04:44 PM) |
Solstice, the words you're looking for are Combat Pool dice used for Dodge Test. And a samurai that loses a Surprise Test in an ambush situation to a street punk doen't get to use Combat Pool when shot by that punk. Bullets do find targets, sometimes even in the best runners. DocWagon/Street Docs do have their uses. |
right...still unlikely, and there is ware that gives you acces to your combat pool for suprise tests IIRC.
As long as we are talking your average ganger. Any half decent char should be able to handle a few, even if surprised.
Besides, it's up to the GM to decide when your totally dead with no chance of resusitation. Doc will make every concievable attempt to bring you back since if your dead you can't keep paying mass nuyen/year for a contract.
toturi
Jan 16 2004, 12:09 AM
QUOTE (Sunday_Gamer) |
The vehicle landed and several well armed and armored men came out, homing in on the garbage container and extracting the injured shammy. As they were removing the shammy, guns visible on every rooftop and window. The sam called out to one of the Doc Wagon employees.
"Hey I called you guys too! Get me out of here!"
The employee paused a second as he communicated with headquarters.
"I'm sorry sir but your contract doesn't cover or make provisions from extraction from combat zones, kindly relocate to a safer area and our personel will arrive within 5 minutes, thank you for using Doc Wagon."
and they all got on the transport and flew off, leaving the sam bleeding behind some crates, cursing.
The shammy thought it was funny but then, he wasn't being shot at anymore.
Sunday. |
Well, according to the BBB, the street sam should have also been picked up too but he'll need to be charged for HTR services. tsk tsk... not Canon, not Canon at all...
Austere Emancipator
Jan 16 2004, 12:09 AM
QUOTE (Solstice) |
[...] there is ware that gives you acces to your combat pool for suprise tests IIRC. |
Yes, the Tactical Computer. 400,000 nuyen, Avail 12/60 days, SI 4, 1.5 Essence, and with decent preparations you get 50% of your Combat Pool for Surprise Tests or, if you are one of those guys who won't even go to Stuffer Shack without drone overwatch and taccom networks set up, you might even get 75%. W00t!
Generally, canonically, a decent street sammy will never be surprised by mundanes without ware or lots of drugs. The sammy only needs 2/3rds more dice than the prepared ambusher to make sure he's always in control of the situation. Against a Reaction 12 sammy, you need at least 8 Reaction to have a good chance of surprising him with an ambush.
DocWagon contracts aren't as useful in my games, since I try to use realistic response times for everything, and the groups do runs all over Finland, often far (100km+) away from any large cities which might have a response team ready. It would take at least ~15 minutes for a team to get there, even if everything was ready, engines running etc.
Out of ... 12 PCs in the games I've run so far, only one has had a DocWagon (well, not actually DocWagon but similar) contract, which really did save his life once. He even got out of hospital OK and wasn't asked any difficult questions, even though he was slowly bleeding to death from bullet wounds, full of drugs (mostly of the truth serum type), in a stolen van, the owner of whom had been murdered a few nights back. The police were waiting for him at the hospital gates though...
Siege
Jan 16 2004, 12:34 AM
The stray bullet lacks any real power -- a kid with 3 dice (say he's defaulting to Quickness) gets his hands on a Heavy Pistol and manages to squeeze the trigger.
He discharges a 9M to his little brother's belly.
By canon, he _might_ be able to stage it up to Serious, but tack on a +2 penalty for defaulting and it becomes highly unlikely.
In reality, this kind of stupidity tends to result in dead kids.
Is this such a huge problem new rules are required? Probably not, depending on how lethal a game you particularly care to run.
As for runners with DocWagnon, I say go for it. It's easier to get the medic to come to you instead of trying to stagger to the medic. And you can be reasonably sure of the quality of your attending doctor instead of the corner street doc who may (or may not) be worth a damn.
In the Mitsuhama example, consider the following:
1. Mitsuhama probably has DocWagon contracts unless they spend a lot of money for a similar in-house service.
2. Overt Assets (uniformed sec guards) firing on uniformed DocWagon employees in the course of their job will result in really nasty repercussions from the Corporate Court -- technically, that could be construed as an act of war.
3. As mentioned before, DocWagon is a megacorp with extraterritorial status. Laws exist in Mitsu, laws exist in DocWagon -- as both are considered seperate countries and laws exist in Seattle. But they don't overlap (much).
So many people came up with the same idea for using DocWagon as emergency cavalry, the errata and subsequent books listed the HTR charges for extracting clients in hot scenarios. They start steep and only go higher.
The DNA sample isn't required (insofar as I can recall) and hardly necessary if you don't have the "custom cloned replacement" insurance. A lot of runners would skip this kind of insurance because of the justifiable paranoia and simply buy a new clone replacement as necessary instead of having a tissue sample sitting in storage.
-Siege
Spookymonster
Jan 16 2004, 12:59 AM
Does Docwagon service clients caught in a hijacked thread?
Sunday_Gamer
Jan 18 2004, 01:18 AM
Well if you're gonna be pedantic =)
That's what the Doc Wagon employee was checking, his credit. When he told him his contract "made no provisions" he meant "You got cash?"
Sunday
Phaeton
Jan 18 2004, 01:23 AM
QUOTE (Spookymonster) |
Does Docwagon service clients caught in a hijacked thread? |
MrSandman666
Jan 18 2004, 12:16 PM
QUOTE (Siege) |
1. Mitsuhama probably has DocWagon contracts unless they spend a lot of money for a similar in-house service.
|
True... Question is: will they care enough to let them slip? I gues this is up to the GM. I don't think there can be a definite answer to that.
QUOTE (Siege) |
2. Overt Assets (uniformed sec guards) firing on uniformed DocWagon employees in the course of their job will result in really nasty repercussions from the Corporate Court -- technically, that could be construed as an act of war.
|
Well, actually it's probably DocWagon who will get the repurcussions from the Corporate Court for violating another corps territory. Mitsuhama's aggression might be judged merely as an act of 'homeland defense'. Even more so that Mitsuhama is a AAA and DocWagon only AA. Theoretically I don't think this should make a difference but practically I'm pretty sure it will.
QUOTE (Siege) |
3. As mentioned before, DocWagon is a megacorp with extraterritorial status. Laws exist in Mitsu, laws exist in DocWagon -- as both are considered seperate countries and laws exist in Seattle. But they don't overlap (much).
|
Yes, but I don't see how this changes anything. If Mitsuhama law prohibits DocWagon from "rescuing" intruders, than DocWagon has to obey or deal with the consequences.
BTW: I can't remember anything specific but doesn't DocWagon also have their own clinics? I mean, are they only a rescue service catering the big (public) hospitals or do they also have their private clinics? I'm not sure, I believe they only do the rescue but I have the vague memory of a DocWagon Clinic somewhere...
And since we don't know enough about Seattle law we can't really say much about all the possibilities of bribing. To give another stupid example:
Said Mitsuhama intruder/runner gets picked up but wants to be delivered to his street doc instead of a pulic clinic. He bribes the DW personel and they land their chopper right in front of the doc's clinic, causing everybody to watch and stare, noting in the log that they delived him to hospital XY, since this is what the runner wanted. Now Mitsuhama wants to track the runner. They ask DocWagon, they say they delivered him to this hospital since that's what's in the log. They ask the hospital but they say they never received the runner. What now? The crew will be tracked down via the log and is now in trouble. Would any crew take the risk to take such bribes then?
Also: is DocWagon obliged to take their customers to hospitals at all or can they be taken anywhere the customer pleases? Probably the later is the case.
Siege
Jan 18 2004, 12:56 PM
2. I suppose it depends on where the extraction happens -- does DocWagon cross the international "border" of Mitsu's fence, or do they settle on the border and smoke a cigarette while the bloody runner staggers to the wating ambulance?
As for penetrating borders -- I don't know. It may be that for DocWagon to agree to service Mitsu clients, Mitsu had to agree to "may pass on business" contact, which would give security directors massive headaches.
3. DocWagon does have its own clinics, hospitals and whatnot.
I would imagine you are not required to be treated at a DocWagon facility -- sign a waiver stating you understand you are badly injured, you do not hold DocWagon or any of its employees responsible and they'll unload dump you where you want to go, provided they can touch down -- or they might make you wait until you get to the landing pad and escort you out of the building.
Of course, this raises the "sound mental judgement" argument, so I don't really know.
As for bribing the DocWagon crew -- it's possible, but given the amount of tracking and monitoring of a DocWagon bus, it would have to be a helluva lot of money to convince the crew to take the risk.
Of course, some employees may be greedier than bright, human nature being what it is.
-Siege
Xirces
Jan 18 2004, 02:11 PM
QUOTE (Siege) |
2. I suppose it depends on where the extraction happens -- does DocWagon cross the international "border" of Mitsu's fence, or do they settle on the border and smoke a cigarette while the bloody runner staggers to the wating ambulance?
As for penetrating borders -- I don't know. It may be that for DocWagon to agree to service Mitsu clients, Mitsu had to agree to "may pass on business" contact, which would give security directors massive headaches.
3. DocWagon does have its own clinics, hospitals and whatnot.
I would imagine you are not required to be treated at a DocWagon facility -- sign a waiver stating you understand you are badly injured, you do not hold DocWagon or any of its employees responsible and they'll unload dump you where you want to go, provided they can touch down -- or they might make you wait until you get to the landing pad and escort you out of the building.
Of course, this raises the "sound mental judgement" argument, so I don't really know.
As for bribing the DocWagon crew -- it's possible, but given the amount of tracking and monitoring of a DocWagon bus, it would have to be a helluva lot of money to convince the crew to take the risk.
Of course, some employees may be greedier than bright, human nature being what it is.
-Siege |
DW will ask the terrotorial owner for permission to enter. I would guess that a typical answer would be "yes" UNLESS there had been a security alert (unless it was the corp's own people who were been picked up).
The waiver idea seems like a good one - I can imagine that been used a lot, although remember that the better contracts give a discount on extended care. It's not that different from voluntary discharge from hospital.
I doubt you'd need to bride the DW crew - confidentiality is maintained otherwise their business is gone (most corp execs would have as much to hide as an SR) and the customer is nearly always right, as long as they pay their bill.
MrSandman666
Jan 19 2004, 09:11 AM
QUOTE (Xirces) |
I doubt you'd need to bride the DW crew - confidentiality is maintained otherwise their business is gone (most corp execs would have as much to hide as an SR) and the customer is nearly always right, as long as they pay their bill.
|
Not necesarily. They will remain silent as long as no one asks or there's nothing too obvious happening (like a bullet to the chest in a facility where they don't belong).
Of course, Execs have a lot of dirt to hide but an ambulance crew or a hospital wouldn't find out about things like corporate fraud and about illegaly firing thousands of employees or about their BTL addiction or something. Drug abuse will probably overlooked for a good bribe. But if the bribe is good enough the nurses and doctors will probably overlook most anything. However, it's harder to omit the bullet to the chest if this is the only reason the patient is in hospital for that would be omiting the only reason he's there... of course one could make something up. But that's a lot of trouble since the records won't match with the stock of supplies and such things. There will be inconsitencies and someone will be getting into trouble. However, if an exec comes in because he's been shot in some back alley because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and he pays DW some decent amount of money, they will simply not mention his drug addiction or some illegal Cyberware or so because that has nothing to do with why the exec is there.
(Sorry, my English is a little blurry today. I hope everything was clear enough to understand it)
toturi
Jan 19 2004, 09:49 AM
Which brings us to patient-doctor confidentiality... How does it apply in SR3? I mean if that corp exec has to bribe every doc or his doc every time he goes to see him, he'll lose a lot of money.
MrSandman666
Jan 19 2004, 09:54 AM
I believe thinks stay confident as long as they are legal. They only have to bribe if the doctors find anything illegal, like drug addiction or illegal cyber, for example. If you don't want to bribe your doctor every time, well, stay legal. It's that simple. If you can not or don't want to stay legal, deal with the consequences, which will either cost you some money or your carreer.
toturi
Jan 19 2004, 09:58 AM
He doesn't know it is illegal cyber. Maybe you got it from a company doctor before Fuchi collapsed, with all the records lost, he doesn't know if it is legal or not. It is not his place to ask you whether that deck in your cyber arm is legal or not.
Siege
Jan 20 2004, 12:01 AM
I don't imagine DocWagon would make a point to report every instance of illegal cyberware in their clients.
Granted, if you don't tell them about the cortex bomb beforehand, they might be a tad cranky...but on the bright side, you won't care.
![grinbig.gif](http://invision.dumpshock.com/html/emoticons/grinbig.gif)
-Siege