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Veggiesama
I'd like to know what people think are necessary optional rules (from the splat books) and house rules for playing a well-balanced game. I'd also like to know rules you use to clear up inconsistencies/confusions in the books or to resolve situations that come up a lot that the rules don't specifically cover.

Just to throw my hat in the ring, I think Karma creation OR build-point advancement is the way to go. Needs to be seamless between creation/advancement (all BP or all Karma) or people end up creating gimped/overpowered characters right off the bat with little room for improvement.

I don't really want to debate the relative merits of each rule. I just want to know which ones you think are indispensable, and why you feel that way.
Draco18s
My group has the CHA * 2 free BP of contacts always on. Characters who are strapped for BP need it and those who have high charisma is makes sense for.

We've recently done away with the chunky salsa rules (as written). Considering that most of our combat occurs indoors we came to the conclusion that as written, the chunky salsa rules were too deadly (for NPC and PC alike) as 8 times out of 10, someone would be close enough to a wall to turn painful damage into deadly damage (the last grenade my character took did 12P, had Chunky been in effect I've have taken 20 to 22P--even my spent edge wouldn't have been enough to keep me in the fight, even though it rolled more 6s than average, I didn't get 8 spare successes).
BlueMax
[Empty Set]
Not a fanboy. I just move my game away from anything the group finds broken.
Poison Shadow
I never liked that logic is mostly useless for hacking. I liked the houserule someone posted that matrix actions are logic+skill, with hits limited by program rating. Seems ok to me, but I'm fairly new to SR, and have only GMed a few sessions. No problems yet.
Dashifen
The biggest problem I've run into is vehicle sensors. I realize that it's a small, nit-picky moment but I'm pretty happy with the base rules overall. Arse didn't really help much, so I use this rule in my games. It's worked well for me. This probably isn't the thread to discuss its merits, but if you want to, PM me or start a new one:

QUOTE
Pretend that the information on p. 105 of Arsenal under Vehicle Sensors including Improving Sensors and Sensor Tests but not including Sensors and Jamming doesn't exist. Instead, Vehicle Sensors will continue to be the undefined radar-like capability that SR4 describes them to be and can be enhanced with Sensor Functions (p. 325, SR4) and with other Sensors and Sensor Software (p. 59-61, Arsenal). To improve vehicle sensors, the Improved Sensor Array modification will be co-opted. It's slot costs, threshold, etc. all remain the same. However, instead of increasing sensor capacity, as it does now, it will increase the vehicle's sensor rating by its own rating. It can be purchased at ratings 1 through 3. The final cost for the modification is (1,000 * rating) nuyen.


I also add this to all my games, for nostalgia, if nothing else. The idea wasn't mine, but was posted here, so the original poster could stand up if he or she's still around. It's a genetic infusion, following all the rules thereof including the chance to become permanent for .4 essence, making these both a chance for the cheapest IP enhancing "gear" but a better chance at incurable cancer smile.gif

QUOTE
Boosted Reflexes
Duration: 1 week
Effect: +1 Reaction, +1 Initiative Pass
The Boosted Reflexes infusion provides a controlled enhancement to the user's reaction time. When the effect of the infusion wears off, the user is subject to a startling lack of coordination due to the perceived experience of "slower" time. Any agility or reaction tests (including combat) are at a -2 dice pool for 12 hours while the user readjusts to his or her normal reaction speeds.
Caadium
A bit of nostalgia has me using a free bp just for contacts rule as well, however I don't use Cha*2 rule. I feel that even gruff trolls know people, so I allow character bp (400 is standard)*.02 in free bp for contacts. This means 8 bp on 400 bp characters. Furthermore, I request that these 8 bp be spent on at least 2 contacts. This means characters have at least 2 contacts (as per old versions of the rules), though not overly powerful ones.

Also as a result of coming from previous editions, I use a hybrid initiative system. In the 2nd edition days fast characters had most, if not all, of their extra actions before slower characters. In 3rd edition everyone got one initiative pass before anyone got extra actions (similar to 4th edition), and that never sat completely well with me. So in 3rd edition I created a hybrid system and have since adapted it to 4th edition. I simply run the IP out of order. I do IP 4, 1, 3, 2.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Caadium @ Apr 23 2009, 05:26 PM) *
I simply run the IP out of order. I do IP 4, 1, 3, 2.


Of course, you dude who has 4 passes also likely has the highest initiative.

4PSammy with 16
3PGunner with 14
2PDruggie with 11
1PMundane with 8

becomes:

(4) Sam, (1) Sam, Gunner, Druggie, Mundane, (3) Sam, Gunner, (2) Sam, Gunner, Druggie

Actually, that's not too bad...
Adarael
QUOTE (Dashifen @ Apr 23 2009, 02:33 PM) *
I also add this to all my games, for nostalgia, if nothing else...


Totally stealing this, for exactly the same reasons!
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Adarael @ Apr 23 2009, 05:29 PM) *
Totally stealing this, for exactly the same reasons!



It is definitely quite nice...
Caadium
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 23 2009, 03:27 PM) *
Of course, you dude who has 4 passes also likely has the highest initiative.

4PSammy with 16
3PGunner with 14
2PDruggie with 11
1PMundane with 8

becomes:

(4) Sam, (1) Sam, Gunner, Druggie, Mundane, (3) Sam, Gunner, (2) Sam, Gunner, Druggie

Actually, that's not too bad...


Your illustration lays it out exactly as I run it. In my game this has not come up, but if I ever needed to do a 5th IP it would go at the very end, after IP 2.

Also, for those SR3 players, here is the original version. Remember that it was designed as a hybrid of SR2 and SR3 initiative

In SR2 you took your init roll, then acted then and subtracted 10, acting again on that number, until you got to 0 or less (32, 22, 12, 2 for example).

In SR3 you everyone acted on their init roll, after everyone acted you subtracted 10 from your score and you acted again on that new number (32 in IP 1, 22 in IP 2, 12 in IP 3, 2 in IP 4 for example).

As I said, the goal was to get mundanes involved earlier; mitigating the extreme value of high inits in SR2, but at the same time give a solid reward for what was then bascially 3+ essence worth of cyber and bio. So here is how I did it back then:

You acted on your init roll, then subtracted 20 and acted again (32, then 12 for example). After you made it through that IP there was a 2nd IP (my hybrid system only had 2 IP) where you subtracted 10 from your original score and acted on that number. You again subtracted 20 until all was done, and that 2nd IP gave everyone the same number of actions but mixed them up. (32 and 12 in IP 1, 22 and 2 in IP 2 is the example). For someone that was fast, but not extremely fast, it would look something like this 26 and 6, then 16. Only those that were really fast got 2 actions before most mundanes, but there was a chance for it for those characters that had spent the cred and essence (or high power point costs).

I just thought I'd put this in there for those that still use the SR3 system.
overcannon
We do some interesting things with guns.

SS guns fire one bullet per combat turn
SA guns can fire two bullets per combat turn
BF guns can fire three bullets per combat turn
FA guns can fire up to ten bullets per combat turn

Recoil is cumulative between initiative passes.

For one reason or another we decided that guns don't fire faster due to faster reflexes.

It just didn't seem right to us anyways.
Draco18s
Burst fire is faster than 1 bullet a second (combat turn = 3 seconds). That's semi-automatic. Also, in doing this, you've removed Suppressive Fire, which uses up 20 bullets.
kzt
We used Frank's character creation rules, we mostly used NPC hackers.

We never used the public awareness or notoriety rules. They seem totally broken. I don't think we used street cred as written either, but I'm not so sure about that. We mostly handwaved it.

We also banned mind control spells after deciding they were abusive.

The part about GM approval is critical, and sometimes the GM has to revoke approval ex-post facto when you don't have a lot of experience. But be reasonable about it.
Zombayz
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 23 2009, 06:40 PM) *
Burst fire is faster than 1 bullet a second (combat turn = 3 seconds). That's semi-automatic. Also, in doing this, you've removed Suppressive Fire, which uses up 20 bullets.


Not even semi-auto though. Ive hit the 2 bullet per second barrier with a Lee-Enfield and a K31 before. Semi-auto, Ive dumped 30 rounds magazine in 1.5 seconds with a modified trigger.

Realistic rates of fire for WW2 submachineguns averaged 600-800 rounds per minute.

Fake edit: the normal trigger had just been replaced with something resembling a paintball gun trigger
kzt
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 23 2009, 08:40 PM) *
Burst fire is faster than 1 bullet a second (combat turn = 3 seconds). That's semi-automatic. Also, in doing this, you've removed Suppressive Fire, which uses up 20 bullets.

An average shooter can shoot at least 2 bullets accurately in a second with an AR on semi (at fairly close range). If you ride the trigger reset you can shoot faster than that and keep the rounds on target at like 10 meters. So yeah, this seems a bit of an odd ruling.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (kzt @ Apr 23 2009, 07:58 PM) *
An average shooter can shoot at least 2 bullets accurately in a second with an AR on semi (at fairly close range). If you ride the trigger reset you can shoot faster than that and keep the rounds on target at like 10 meters. So yeah, this seems a bit of an odd ruling.



I will second that opinion... been there and done that...
Caadium
QUOTE (overcannon @ Apr 23 2009, 06:29 PM) *
Recoil is cumulative between initiative passes.


I forgot, this is something I also use. Recoil resets each round, not each IP. However, any 'Take Aim' action used on any gun with built up recoil will clear out the built up recoil instead of giving a +1 modifier. This rule was was something I started using at the same time as the modified initiative I listed above.
Tiger Eyes
My GM doesn't let us buy successes (but we also don't have to roll for tasks that are super easy, like my TM hacking a rating 2 commlink).

We don't use the Notoriety/Public Awareness stuff.

We get the Charisma*2 free contacts at character generation.

Now that attribute improvement costs increased, he's letting the adept get a powerpoint with initiation instead of a metamagic.

And... hm. This isn't a houserule as much as a playstyle. We *almost* never roll social skill tests. My GM believes firmly in the roleplay aspect. The only time in the last 4 years we've rolled a social skill test was a team-work Con (Seduction) test... and I'm pretty convinced that was simply because he couldn't believe what we were trying. wink.gif
Malachi
A magician must stay conscious from the Drain test in order for a spell to take effect.
The Mack
QUOTE (Tiger Eyes @ Apr 24 2009, 12:46 PM) *
And... hm. This isn't a houserule as much as a playstyle. We *almost* never roll social skill tests. My GM believes firmly in the roleplay aspect. The only time in the last 4 years we've rolled a social skill test was a team-work Con (Seduction) test... and I'm pretty convinced that was simply because he couldn't believe what we were trying. wink.gif


Interesting.

I'm curious how much the players in your group invest in social skills. Do they have any value outside of elaborate scams like the one you mentioned?

I'm assuming your group is idyllic and no one does this, but how do you prevent the CHA 1 Troll with no social skills from talking their way out of (or into) all kinds of situations due to the player's cleverness?

Does the GM say "I'm sorry, your character is obviously too socially inept to have possibly come up with that story."?
Dakka Dakka
One houserule I find essential is, "There is only one essence hole."

We also use a oWOD-Style action declaration sequence. Everyone rolls Initiative, then the player of the slowest character says what the character tries to do and any player whose character has a higher Initiatve can say they wish to interrupt.
HentaiZonga
I always use the Cha x 2 BP (or Cha x 3 XP) free Contacts, and incidentally allow Awakened-types to purchase bound Spirits/Sprites with those points (I also allow them to purchase Complex Forms/Spells with their free Knowledge Skill pool).

I always use an Action Point/"Tick" system (ala Exalted) in lieu of the standard IP system; it just works so much cleaner.

I also tend to run Technomancer rules a lot closer to Magicy rules (to the point of Complex Form categories, Matrix combat working just like Astral combat, and the like).
Draco18s
QUOTE (Malachi @ Apr 24 2009, 12:06 AM) *
A magician must stay conscious from the Drain test in order for a spell to take effect.


I'm pretty sure that one is RAW.

Instantaneous effects exempt of course.

QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Apr 24 2009, 01:46 AM) *
One houserule I find essential is, "There is only one essence hole."


And what does that actually mean?
Medicineman
we use the Optional Matrix Rule
LOG & Skill (limited by Program Rating)

with an optional Dance
Medicineman
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 24 2009, 09:52 AM) *
And what does that actually mean?

According to RAW of Augmentation you can only replace one type of implant with the same type without losing essence. We did away with this restriction.

Example: A Character has Muscle Replacement 2 (-2 Essence) and wants to replace it with Muscle toner 2 and Muscle Augmentation 2 (-0.8 Essence total).

By RAW the character has An Essence Hole of 2 if the Cyberware is removed and loses additional Essence due to the new Bioware Implants. So he is at -2.8, or maybe -2.4 as it is unclear if virtual Cyberware affects the halving of Essence cost. He can however implant 2 Essence worth of Cyberware without incurring more Essence Loss

With my houserule the Character remains at -2 Essence and can implant additional ware worth of 1.2 Essence, as 0.8 is used by the bioware. Which score is halved is calculated according to the currently installed parts.

Also this removes the necessity to decide whether a character is a Bio-Sam or a more traditional Cyber-Sam.

Draco18s
Ah...I think our table has done away with that rule unintentionally. Not that it's ever come up in play...
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Apr 24 2009, 12:52 AM) *
And what does that actually mean?

Assume you have 2 Essence Loss due to cybernetics, & 0 Essence Loss due to bioaugmentation.

Remove 1 Essence worth of cybernetics - you now have 2 Essence Loss total - 1 due to cybernetics, & 1 cybernetic Essence Hole. You can now install up to 1 Essence worth of cybernetics without any additional loss - anything beyond 1 applies normally. You choose not to get any replacement cyber at this time.

Install 1 Essence worth of bioaugmentation - you now have 3 Essence Loss total - 1 due to cybernetics, 1 due to bioaugmentation, & 1 cybernetic Essence Hole (can only be applied to cybernetic Essence Loss).


That is RAW - you calculate the Essence Hole separately for bioaugmentation & cybernetics. Now to explain why this is a bad thing.

You possess 3 Essence in cybernetics, & 1.5 (3 divided by 2) Essence in bioaugmentation, for a total of 4.5 Essence Loss. You install 0.01 Essence worth of bioaugmentation - the base value is now greater than the cybernetics, so cybernetics is halved.

You now possess 1.5 Essence in cybernetics, 3.01 Essence in bioaugmentation, & 1.5 cybernetic Essence Hole, for a total of 6.01 Essence Loss. You are dead. 1.5 Essence free to work with, and by installing Cats Eyes, you die from Essence Loss.
Blade
I have a lot of houserules, but I often forget to use them. Here are the simplest ones:

Bought contacts are "big" contacts : fixers/gangs/hackers/police inspector and so on. They are contacts who could find other contacts for you (doctors, armorers...). Players also get CHA*2 free contacts. Those contacts are friends or less useful contacts. They are mostly there to let the player add flavor to the world and his character and to avoid having a character who lived in the game's city for all his life but still doesn't have more than two contacts.

Even in AR, as long as a hacker uses a DNI to access the matrix, he can be targeted by blackhammer programs. But since the signal are less powerful, the hacker has a free cumulative rating 4 biofeedback filter. The downside is that actions requiring precise feedback (such as difficult rigging or cybercombat) suffer a -2 modifier.
If the hacker uses a manual input device, he suffers a -2 modifier (cumulative with the former modifier) for most hacking and cybercombat actions. The base time of all matrix action is also doubled in that case.
In combat situations, hackers can do "quick hacking". They are quick and dirty hacks that don't give the hacker an account on the target node but let him do one action. Basically they just roll either a logic+electronic warfare (target node) success test or an opposed logic+hacking (system+firewall) test depending on the conditions.

A light pistol can be used for suppressive fire. It won't cover an area as large as an automatic weapon but it's enough to force one opponent to take cover.

Stick&Shock ammo is only available for shotguns.

When a group of NPC fires at someone, it's considered as a suppressive fire. One roll is made for the whole group (using the average group's dice pool), with each shooter adding one die per 4 dice in his pool. Each net hits deals the base DV of the weapon.

When a PC is hit, the location of the hit is chosen (depending on the conditions and the damage). The character will suffer a -1 wound modifier cumulative with the general wound modifier for all actions using that body part. He also risks worsening the wound until it has received first aid. If the character gets more than 6 damage boxes in one hit, the body part is destroyed.
Muspellsheimr
Rule 1: If a mechanical effect relies on a GM judgement call, it has failed & must be house-ruled (example being Fire damage, which I still have not come up with a satisfactory alteration to).

Rule 2: If it is a mechanical effect, balance is paramount. If it is overpowering or underpowering, it has failed & must be house-ruled (example being Adepts [underpowering] & Spirits [overpowering]). Note that the vast majority of changes made due to this are increasing the effectiveness of something.

Rule 3: If a rule makes no fucking sense at all, it has failed & must be house-ruled (example being Vehicle Combat - Ramming).
overcannon
QUOTE (Zombayz @ Apr 23 2009, 08:55 PM) *
Not even semi-auto though. Ive hit the 2 bullet per second barrier with a Lee-Enfield and a K31 before. Semi-auto, Ive dumped 30 rounds magazine in 1.5 seconds with a modified trigger.

Realistic rates of fire for WW2 submachineguns averaged 600-800 rounds per minute.

Fake edit: the normal trigger had just been replaced with something resembling a paintball gun trigger


Right, and you have 1 initiative pass. I'm just saying that the main point was to make IP and Rate of Fire independent. It's still early in testing though.

It would probably work even better if we double it.
Psikerlord
Our securetech PPP armour uses the standard armour stacking rules (ie not treated like a helmet/shield). We don't use the optional armour rules from Arsenal. We do use the optional drain rules for direct combat spells in SR4A (..mages can still blast the crap out of foes, but suffer a signifcant toll).
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 24 2009, 01:05 PM) *
Our securetech PPP armour uses the standard armour stacking rules (ie not treated like a helmet/shield).
Why would anyone buy non-stacking 2/6 armor when he can get similarly concealable armor of 6/4 (armor vest, lined coat, chameleon suit)?
Draco18s
QUOTE (overcannon @ Apr 24 2009, 05:37 AM) *
Right, and you have 1 initiative pass. I'm just saying that the main point was to make IP and Rate of Fire independent. It's still early in testing though.

It would probably work even better if we double it.


I was going to suggest single shot = 3, SA = 6, BF = 9, and FA = 30.

Interestingly enough that only effects people with 4 initiative passes and people using Long Bursts.
Tiger Eyes
QUOTE (The Mack @ Apr 24 2009, 01:17 AM) *
Interesting.

I'm curious how much the players in your group invest in social skills. Do they have any value outside of elaborate scams like the one you mentioned?

I'm assuming your group is idyllic and no one does this, but how do you prevent the CHA 1 Troll with no social skills from talking their way out of (or into) all kinds of situations due to the player's cleverness?

Does the GM say "I'm sorry, your character is obviously too socially inept to have possibly come up with that story."?


Generally they invest in as much social skills as they think their character would have and roleplay that level; most of us take a few social skills unless we're trying to play an inept character. After 10 years of roleplaying with the same friends, we know what we can and can't get away with. We have one person in our group who is banned from ever having a Charisma higher than 4. wink.gif And, yes, maybe our group is idyllic. Because anyone playing a PC with a low Charisma and no social skills wouldn't try to talk their way out of, or into, anything; it'd be out of character. And a CHA 1 character would never survive in our group... (Which is why I said it was more a playstyle than a houserule.)
The Mack
QUOTE (Tiger Eyes @ Apr 24 2009, 10:50 PM) *
Generally they invest in as much social skills as they think their character would have and roleplay that level; most of us take a few social skills unless we're trying to play an inept character. After 10 years of roleplaying with the same friends, we know what we can and can't get away with.


Ah well, having the same group of friends for that long explains a lot. smile.gif

QUOTE (Tiger Eyes @ Apr 24 2009, 10:50 PM) *
We have one person in our group who is banned from ever having a Charisma higher than 4. wink.gif



Oh you can't say that and not tell us how that came about! I'm sure there's a funny story in there somewhere.

Kerrang
Since I have one player in the group who almost exclusively plays Technomancers, I utilize the Advanced Technomancer Rules, as well as the sidebar optional Resonance rules (both from Unwired) to make TMs more useful.

I also allow characters to improve their contacts connection ratings with Karma, though they must improve loyalty through roleplay (usually backed up with cold, hard Nuyen).

The first time we ran a vehicle combat/chase scene, we found the rules to be lacking in a few areas and developed some house rules:

Ramming - ramming vehicles only take half damage against soft targets, or other vehicles that are moving in the same direction. Ramming head on, t-boning another vehicle, or hitting a stationary hard target causes full damage to the ramming vehicle.

Breaking Off - This needed some significant tweaks for a variety of reasons, suffice to say that comparative vehicle speed, and vehicle sensor/ECM ratings play more of a part in our house rule than do the number of vehicles involved on either side.
Veggiesama
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 24 2009, 04:02 AM) *
That is RAW - you calculate the Essence Hole separately for bioaugmentation & cybernetics. Now to explain why this is a bad thing.

I can see why those rules are goofy.

QUOTE
When a group of NPC fires at someone, it's considered as a suppressive fire. One roll is made for the whole group (using the average group's dice pool), with each shooter adding one die per 4 dice in his pool. Each net hits deals the base DV of the weapon.

That is a cool idea.
wylie
in the game I run, we don't roll intiative
i just ask for the highest intiative rating and go from there

it helps cut down on lots of dice rolling, and easier to keep track of when everyone goes
kzt
That was also suggested by Frank Trollman. Seemed to work ok.
Chrysalis
House rules:

The GM's final decision is binding.
The GM has access to things that are not in the books.
THe GM may ask you to throw dice for what may be a random roll only to have it come back to haunt the player later.
Cain
I ask my players to cap their dice pools. For example, I might say: "Please limit your combat dice pools to 20, and your other pools to 15", and they generally do so. Once they reach the cap, players tend to focus on other aspects of their characters instead of trying to squeeze the life out of every last BP.

Since I'm only asking, I don't mind if someone accidentally develops a pool of 21. If they go over by a lot, I'll ask them to tone it back. If they refuse, then I know I have a potential problem player.
Muspellsheimr
Shadowrun 4 - House Errata

The above does not include all my alterations, & does not take into account the Anniversary changes. Otherwise, it is a significant portion of my suggested alterations to RAW (the basic game mechanics are excellent, with a few exceptions, but the values &/or effects of many things are unbalanced - usually underpowered).
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Veggiesama @ Apr 23 2009, 10:04 PM) *
I'd like to know what people think are necessary optional rules (from the splat books) and house rules for playing a well-balanced game. I'd also like to know rules you use to clear up inconsistencies/confusions in the books or to resolve situations that come up a lot that the rules don't specifically cover.

Fixing Fake Rules to conform with Livestyle rules - i.E. making fake SINs of Rating N automatically win against verification systems with Rating N-1:

Simply convert the Fake Rating to a Threshold in the verification test.
Psikerlord
@ Dakka Dakka - you're exactly right ... it turns PPP armour into civilian NPC gear smile.gif
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 25 2009, 02:07 PM) *
@ Dakka Dakka - you're exactly right ... it turns PPP armour into civilian NPC gear smile.gif
Not even NPCs would buy such armor, I think, because both the Armor Vest and the Lined Coat are cheaper and offer better protection, without running around in a helmet. Only the Chameleon Suit is more expensive, but its advantage is not usually something for your average civilian. The only use I can see is as sports gear, where nothing else is allowed because of the rules of the game.

What is your beef with that equipment? OK, you get a couple of extra dice for soaking combat damage, mostly Impact Armor which is not so signficant anyway, but there are still lots of ways to negatively affect an armored character. I don't remember who wrote this but Shadowrun is kind of like Rock Paper Scissors. If the guy is armored use SnS or direct combat spells or gas or... If someone is sealed in you can still use firearms or direct combat spells or..

While gas and combat spells probably are not in the arsenal of every CorpSec goon, a Stun Baton/Taser and a Firearm probably is.
PirateChef
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 24 2009, 04:37 AM) *
Rule 2: If it is a mechanical effect, balance is paramount. If it is overpowering or underpowering, it has failed & must be house-ruled (example being Adepts [underpowering] & Spirits [overpowering]). Note that the vast majority of changes made due to this are increasing the effectiveness of something.



This is the first time I've ever seen adepts listed as underpowered... I usually have to do things to reign them in from being overpowered.

Granted, there are some roles they don't fill very well, but the things they do, they do well.
Larme
Catalyst already took care of my #1 house rule by capping bows. The other one I would use is to delete Empathy software, or make it so it's only available for a Judge Intentions check, and nothing else.

I might also want to monkey with the damage to passengers rule, which seems to assume that passengers don't wear seatbelts, and ramming another vechile kills everyone in both cars. Which would make sense if nobody was wearing a seatbelt because they'd all break their necks, and possibly (probably?) be flung out the windows. Also, it assumes that impact armor specifically designed to help you survive crashes, like a crash helmet, is highly ineffective during a crash, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I would change the rules as follows: damage to passengers is resisted with full impact, not half. Wearing a seatbelt reduces the DV by 1/2, and the Passenger Protection mod reduces it by 3/4. Or, maybe it further reduces the damage by its rating, which means it could offer full protection from damage to someone already wearing a seatbelt. I mean seriously, modern safety measures see people walking away unharmed from crashes, which isn't just unlikely under SR4's crash rules, it's virtually impossible. Shadowrun is supposed to be futuristic, so I have to assume that cars are safer in 2070, not 10x more deadly.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Larme @ Apr 25 2009, 11:01 AM) *
I might also want to monkey with the damage to passengers rule, which seems to assume that passengers don't wear seatbelts, and ramming another vechile kills everyone in both cars. Which would make sense if nobody was wearing a seatbelt because they'd all break their necks, and possibly (probably?) be flung out the windows. Also, it assumes that impact armor specifically designed to help you survive crashes, like a crash helmet, is highly ineffective during a crash, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I would change the rules as follows: damage to passengers is resisted with full impact, not half. Wearing a seatbelt reduces the DV by 1/2, and the Passenger Protection mod reduces it by 3/4. Or, maybe it further reduces the damage by its rating, which means it could offer full protection from damage to someone already wearing a seatbelt. I mean seriously, modern safety measures see people walking away unharmed from crashes, which isn't just unlikely under SR4's crash rules, it's virtually impossible. Shadowrun is supposed to be futuristic, so I have to assume that cars are safer in 2070, not 10x more deadly.


One of the best changes I've seen is that the vehicle resists first, then the left over is applied to the passangers.
Psikerlord
@Dakka dakka. You're right of course. I just think 8/6 or similar armour is plenty high already, and doesn't need an easy boost from PPP.
Medicineman
QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Apr 26 2009, 12:13 AM) *
@Dakka dakka. You're right of course. I just think 8/6 or similar armour is plenty high already, and doesn't need an easy boost from PPP.


What about FormFitting Body Armour ?

HokaHey
Medicineman
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