The Ares Globetrotter line is said to be the same.

I didn't look in Arsenal, so I stand corrected. So we have two specific instances, would you make the assertion that all armor is 'well ventilated' then?

Again, I put out the proviso, that your armor can be whatever you want in your game. If a person wants to run SR in the John Woo style (slow motion, doves flying through, pistols in either hand), where gun fights are the norm that is perfectly fine.

There is a distinct diference between "breathable" and "well ventilated". Berathable items have the ability to over time pass a certain amount of heat and/or moisture one-way across their barrier. Too rapid a surge in heat and moisture will overload their ability to handle either. Over time, it will become dry and cool much faster than a "non-breathable" item, which will tend to retain heat and moisture until opened and dried. Well ventilated means the exchange of air is sufficient to keep the wearer effectively dry and cool during sudden peak usage (read: combat, gymnastics, running, etc.) without needing the user to stop and "rest" the armor.

Let me try and rephrase.

Every single run I have ever been on devolves into combat at some point, mostly because it seems like the go-to resource for a lot of the various people I've played with. Now, this isn't to say that all those things you mentioned before don't come up in games; our legwork sections are usually fairly involved. But the focus of the game seems to be on the run itself, and on the run, the people I play with reach for their guns at the least provocation.

Which, frankly, is what I see happening in the fluff text I read. It's right there in the RC: "Sometimes we're G-ddamn heroes. And sometimes, we shoot people right in the face for money."

I recognized the "quote" for what it was. I still like the "facial ballistics". I would agree that a LOT of the time it can come down to physical confrontation, and the implication or THREAT of violence is implicit throughout the genre. Run down squatter neighborhoods eat the weak. And that the legwork is involved is a good sign. But as you said "the people [you] play with reach for their guns at the least provocation". My comments in this thread are directed (I suppose, now that you have clarified for us) more at those PLAYERS who think a gun is a Swiss Army knife for everything from difficult interpersonal relations to negotiation to mortal combat to evanding a tip for the pizza boy. It sounds as if you at least grasp the concepts I am promoting. In my experience, there are a LOT of miserable or ... overly hormonal players. I don't enjoy those games anywhere as much, and I don't think they represent the heart and soul of Shadowrun. As to fluff, one of my little projects for my group was to coalate ALL the "storyline" text from all the core rulebooks and put it into one nicely formatted packet. You'd be surprised how much there is. I would say that less than a quarter of it, maybe a fifth actually involved gunplay (or the equivalent). And every one of those was a blown run. More of it was what we would consider (here on DS) off-camera or well executed runs - like the one about an extraction by spoofing the guy's taxi. Take the time and go back to re-read that stuff. It's worth it. If you're really nice and drop me a PM with a valid comcode, I might could download the file I made to you. I'm not trying to be snide. The stuff at the front of each chapter, the openeing of the BBB and the end of Runner's Companion are wonderful. We had everybody (new and old) in our party read the whole packet prior to creating their characters... come to think of it, I need to pilfer the SR4A stuff and slot that in too now, since I have the PDF.

I would not mind having a gander at that storyline packet...
If it is available, You got my email...

The main thing that prevents the gunless shadowrun is that fact that the smallest of failures can lead to a screw up. For a SR to go off perfectly, everything on the runner's end has to go perfectly. The problem is that there is usually never enough information, resources, rehersal time, etc available to make sure everything goes perfectly.

Once you get seen by a guard, or the hacker screws something up, or a spirit you didn't know about pops up, or some alarm that wasn't on the building plans gets tripped, it's basically time for the gunfight. So a lot of SR players use legwork as a way of maximizing their advantage in the inevitable gunfight, rather than trying to get the run done without a gunfight at all because, in their experience, a run without a gunfight is basically impossible.

The basic problem is based on the consequences of failure. A single failure in a gunfight (for example, you miss) is not the end. But a since failure in stealth that lets the guards see you is basically the end of the non-gunfight section of the run.

And since we seem to have picked up plenty of new people again, who are talking about armor, hit locations, etc I'll bring up the thread I wrote many moons ago, when I had more energy.

Armor, Hit Locations, and math

Sure. And if you instead do the job correctly you can have the guards holding the door open for you as you walk out with what you came to get.

Now, now, we're not going to go there...

*smirk*

Sure, but I will note that the first example given in the BBB itself - the one that sets the tone for the entire book - goes all to hell and results in people shooting each other. Just a thought

I have to say I like Happy's armor stacking rules. I never saw why it needed to go, and I'm all for doing some adjusting here. It at least makes armor worn much more varied, while still giving a lot of protection(I too have seen what looked to be scarily armored folks go down VERY fast to a damn good hit. Really, unless you are armored like the Zurich Orbital, you are likely to get hurt, or even die, if you get into too heavy of a situation regardless of armor.)

I also like the Body/Strength rule. Makes Strength more useful.

Uh-oh...

ElFenir, you're actually on-topic. Watch out for people shooting at your face.



Thanks.

And then the OTHER fluff at the beginning of each and every other chapter in all the core rulebooks, and the long story at the END of Runner's Companion, and the "IC" information imparted in that book, all show the other sides of the world.

Buzz Kill, the first story, is an exciting rendition of a busted run set up because of a doublecross by the assistant of a Johnson. It's a great way to suck a new player into the gritty (remember the PC headshot?), action packed world of shadowrunning while managing to convey the paranoia and fear runners experience. But it's not really representative of the whole of shadowrunning. And the "tone" of the rest of the book, if you read all the other stories, frequently directly contradicts the "feel" of Buzz Kill.

Drop me a PM if you like, and I can foward you the packet I did with all of it compiled in one place. Makes for fun (and useful) reading. A couple people have already done so, and I was more than happy to oblige. (I put a lot of hours into formatting the slotting thing.) It's required reading at our table. Our people say it really made a difference for them.