Okay, before you start berrating me for this thread, let me say that it's only because my friend in the game I'm in is interested in this. He is an avid Anime fan (I can't stand that stuff) and really likes Gundam and Robotech. So I figured I'd ask for him: "What are your thoughts on Mecha's of some sort existing in the Sixth World and how would the work?"

Personally, I can't see them getting very large, as that would kind of be overpowering. Maybe 12 feet or so and work more like the mech suit in Aliens that Ripley was piloting (the yellow one at the end) as opposed to giant anime style robots. Also, the statistics for them would probably be ob par with some more powerful spirits or even lesser dragons, the physical stats at least.

I'm sure the Megacorps are working on something like this already, but I myself doubt that it would be public knowledge anytime soon.

Hey, Cyberpunk 2020 had 'em!

That said, I can see it to a point. I mean, especially in Japan.
If you look at Arsenals, you can already make, what is basically, powered armor suits. Not giant robots, but the next best thing.

Heavy Milspec armor with sealed systems, strength and agility enhancements. Stick on a weapon mount...

EDIT: Also, in the form of Dragons, Mecha actually have something to fight in 2070. I can see some corps going 'oh shit' after Ghostwalker trampsed through Denver in '63.

Yea..that's what I was thinking, probably more on par with Powered armor than honest mechs. I could also see some of the larger ones beeing more like the mechs in Mech Warrior, being 10 -15 Meters tall and not looking very humanoid, with the reverse jointed "Chicken" legs and weapon mounts more akin to a tank than an arm holding a gun.

Damnit, now I just know I am going to design a set of T-51b powered armor before the day is through.

Make it the "Winterized" version and you get bonus points!

Note: I feel like such a nerd, thank you Fallout!

Take the Shin-Hyung, put on Walker Mode and 2 Full Mechanical Arms, and have fun with the other 10 mod slots. It's about a 15 foot tall mecha that's as strong and tough as a troll.

Quick write-up, may be over on ratings of mods.

T-51b Powered Armor

16/14 (18/16 w/ Helmet)
Mobility Upgrade 3 (Capacity 6)
Strength Upgrade 2 (Capacity 2)
Chemical Seal (Capacity 4)
Radiation Protection 6 (Capacity 4)
Nonconductivity 3 Capacity 2

Helmet has a geiger counter

For winterized, add Insulation and drop the nonconductivity some

I expect Japan to have at least a few big mechas... just because they can.

To my players: please keep out

...

I want my JIM- Exoskeleton. That was a perfect example for a tiny mech. Strong as nothing, sealed, rigg-able, armored. And it was even small enough to be no "Attack HERE" advertisement board.

Ah, yeah we had a rigger in that thing going against a troll-adept. Awesome fight.

Well, all in all. i would allow small mechs in the game. Maybe a class over the heavy milspec armor or that (Tomino???) walker combat drone. It just has to have own body attributes, an internal node, must be riggable and a rigger-coccoon. It should even be pretty cheap.. maybe around 100k or less?

JIM-Exoskeleton? As in Earthworm Jim? Or am I just crazy...?

You are crazy *g*. Nah... 3rd edition, i think arsenal. JIM-Exoskeleton is under scuba gear??? (do not have the book) It's a hermetically sealed underwater robot and has space for a pilot. (well it is more of a big suit like those which are already in use since the 1970ies)

But there were no rules against using it on land and modify it according to the rules with extra-strength and armor. Hilarity ensues.

Mechas as a military weapon are a silly idea (and this comes from an avid Battletech player). They are too big of targets on the modern battlefield and you would be better off making a multiped walking tank instead (kinda like the UN spider tank in Patlabor II).

In industry though I see a wide use of different biped and multiped exosceletons that would be used in everything from forestry (especially in the back country) to building construction (it would be nice to be able to have the cement truck be able to climb the building instead of pumping all the material up several stories).

On the military side, power armour would be the more likely development. This would allow individual soldiers to maintain a small radar and target signature and increase their lethality against enemy troops. I actually think drones are the true future of military forces as it costs over $40,000 and 2 years of training to "make" a soldier but $10,000 - $30,000 and a couple of weeks to make a decent drone. Plus no one cries over a dead drone (except the tech in charge of fixing it).

Of note, I don't believe there are rules for any main combat vehicles in Shadowrun. At least not for 4th Edition. They have naval vessels, subs, Jet Fighterbombers, but no Main Battle Tanks.

How often would SRs face a main battle tank? If you are, I think you have done something very wrong.

Fuchicoma!

Heh, rigger3 held stats for a nimitz class carrier, or there about

Or playing a slightly different than standard game. Say, a high end mercenary group operating in the 3rd world.

I blew up a few battle tanks once....or rather...our TM did by hacking in and setting the self-destruct, I just conjured an Earth Elemental to throw said tanks at the enemies....hehehe....we are the epitome of anti-stealth....

Steel Lynx + Rigger Cocoon + 2 Grapples

I just watched the ending of SAC 2nd GIG not two hours ago....
Cried like a little girl with a skinned knee at the Tachikoma scene.

*wipes tears* I swear I keep getting dust in my eyes

Don't worry, they'll be back. In the SAC movie.

And in funky new upgraded bodies too.

I must say if I ever do make my Rigger character I have been planning one of his objectives is to make a Tachikoma to ride about in. Throw in some Ruthium Poly-whatsit and you can even have it go invisible

You could do a decent 'mech by using a patrol car with a walker mod, then adding on armor, weapons, all the goodies. You could aso do it with a sports car if speed was more important than toughness.

I don't know of a single APC or tank that I've been in yet that has a self-destruct sequence. The whole idea of a self-destruct is a very silly idea. One of the biggest things I hate the most about Star Trek.



I would use the rules in Rigger 3 to create a tank then. Use the conversion rules to bring them up to SR4 rules if needed. IIRC you can easily create a tank with Rigger 3.

Yea...I know...but that's ok. These ones apparently DID have self-destructs in them. Basically turning them into giant grenades for an elemental is one of my favorite thing to do with vehicles....

I have a rigger/gun-nut who has a home made mini-mech. It's a "large" walker construction drone with rigger pod and LMG. I purposeful made it with gear he could have bought legally and then cobbled together on his own.

I also did a write up on a Tachicoma once. I started with a car and went from there. Walker mode doesn't have to be 2 legs, 2 hands, cyber gun in the arm, mounted grenade gun, chameleon coating, winch, etc. It did fall within the starting budget of a character if you spend a couple of "restricted gear" options, which was nice because I was kind of thinking it would work best with an AI player character... if you're trying to be true to the series anyway.

As pointed out else where: Mech builds tend to start with either a drone or a vehicle. The smallest, in theory, is to start with an EVO Orderly and add a Rigger pod. You end up with legs, arms, and a valk-mod, and it's troll sized. Consider it power armor. The larger versions should start with car or truck (there is an upper limit on what you can use walker mod on I think) and then add rigger box, limbs, and legs. Remeber that you can add Cyber Limb mods to drone arms, so you can put minor weaponery into the arms easily.

These guys aren't exactly subtle though, and that can get a Shadow runner in a lot of trouble. My Gun-nut rigger calls his mini-mech "Bertha" and "only takes her out dancing" when he intends start a big nasty fight. Actually, as he puts it, Bertha takes him out dancing. Yes, his other guns and gun equeiped drones have names (and personality software) too. He keeps Bertha in the truck (Large drone landing pad) the rest of the time. So far she has only come out for a bit of a dragon hunt on a mountain.

I think it came from them being warships, in that great naval tradition.

Scuttled rather then allowed to be captured by the enemy and all that...

I shake my head at your GM.

Actually, you can't easily create a main battle tank with Rigger 3. I tried. The closest you can come is using the heavy crawler chassis, but that only gives you enough hardpoints for a large turret, which can fit a medium railgun. The fluff description of the heavy railgun says that it's used in main battle tanks, but there's no chassis that has enough hardpoints or enough load capacity to mount the extra-large turret required to fit one, let alone with enough load left over to carry a decent amount of armor. But then again, half the vehicles in there don't follow the rules so why not fudge things a bit.

I don't know what your problem is . .
A Medium Sized Rail-Gun is STILL close enough to ship killing neh? O.o

Self-destruct makes sense when there's technology on board which is classified. In the example of Star Trek, twice Kirk had his hands on cloaking technology (and apparently managed to lose it before it could be properly studied and copied). I'm sure the Federation has classified technology as well - and so do Renraku, Aztechnology, Ares and so on, that they would rather destroy than let fall into their competitors' hands.

As for the mechs... Mechs wouldn't have much use beyond heavy lifting and such. If a player wanted one to cruise around the city in though, I wouldn't be opposed. He'd just have to do some pretty heavy modifications to make it any good.

Yeah, a medium railgun is pretty good, but for combat against other heavy tanks that are likely carrying 40+ points of armor, the power on the medium railgun is low enough that you'd really rather have the heavy. And, I was just playing around with the Rigger 3 vehicle creation rules and really wanted to put a big gun on something.

But more on topic, I love the idea of powered armor in Shadowrun, and I wish they'd do an Arsenal supplement that fleshes out the military armor and its customizations a little more. I know it's not typical running gear, but I always love the military stuff.

Again you wouldn't have a self-destruct button. You would be taught the proper procedures on how to make a piece of equipment useless to the enemy. Usually this meant opening the device up and setting off a WF grenade inside it. It is a very effective way of "neutralizing" classified equipment and the best part is you can't accidentally trigger it.

Thermite is a very effective way to destroy sensitive equipment as well.

Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman with advanced cargo module converted mech {6 Slots}

- Full Mechanical Arm [15 Slots]
- Submachine Gun [10] (6 Slots)
- Gas-Vent System 3 (2)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Smartlink (1)
- Improved Range Finder (1)
- Sound Suppressor [3]
- External Clip Port [1]

- Full Mechanical Arm [16 Slots]
- Increased Capacity 1
- Grenade Launcher [15] (6 Slots)
- Firing Selection Change to SA (1)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Smartlink (1)
- Improved Range Finder (1)
- External Clip Port [1]

- Rigger Adaptation {1}
- Concealed Armor 12 {2}
- Smoke Projector {1}
- ECM 6 {1}
- Ejection Seat {1}

- Sensors (12 Slots)
- Microphone 3 (Audio Enhancement 3, Select Sound Filter 3, Spatial Recognizer) (1)
- Front Camera 6 (Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Image Link) (1)
- Back Camera 6 (Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Image Link) (1)
- Front Laser Range Finder (1)
- Back Laser Range Finder (1)
- Front Motion Sensor (1)
- Back Motion Sensor (1)
- Radar 6 (5)


Costs: 61.900

1) it's being rigged, no point making your GL's ROF SA. it's a complex action to fire it anyways. why not trade in for airburst link?
2) concealed armor caps at 10. and frankly, i don't think there's much point in concealing it... mechas are not generally built for subtle.
3) mecha are supposed to have legs. i understand you felt you needed the slots for other things, mind you, but that brings up my last point:
4) no smart wheels? they don't even take slots, so you've got no excuse. this thing can't even handle stairs... you call that a mecha?

I had a quick go at this,

Custom Misuhama Tomino (Cyborg Walker Combat Drone)
(Page 122 of Arsenal)

Built In Modifications
Body Stabilization (2)
Cyborg Adaptation
NanoMaintenance System (2)
Touch Sensors
Walker

Modification Slots (10)
Rigger Cocoon (1)
Mechanical Arm (Full Arm) (2)
Mechanical Arm (Full Arm) (2)
Normal Armour (Rating 20) (1)
Weapon Mount (1)
Flexible (1)
Remote Controlled (-)
Small Drone Rack (2)

Mechanical Arm (15)
Cyberarm Gyromount (4)
External Clip Port (1)
Submachine Gun (10)
Firing Selection Modification (Full Auto) (1)
Extended Clip (100 Shot Drum) (2)
Gas Vent 3 (2)
Smartgun System (1)

It 'aint finished, but that is as far as I got before getting bored. Needless to say its quite a bit more expensive than the above one (I forgot to keep track of costs), but it does the job better. It does however need GM approval that you can fit a Rigger Cocoon into the drone in the first place. Fluff wise I cannot see why you couldn't, at least a Dwarf sized one.

Stick a nice big gun on the weapon mount, maybe a Sniper Rifle or something. Have it carry about a modified Assault Rifle or Panther Cannon or something. Your set.
The Drone Port is for getting some eyes in the sky, and maybe some assistance on the killing things front. A modified Ford LEBD-1 would do the trick.

Critique?

You beat me to it. Seriously! concealed amour. Seriously!

"Hey Bob is that a two legged walking machine of death over there?"
"Yeah but it doesn't have any amour, so don't worry about it."
"ok."

Seriously!

Concealed armor is good, even on a giant, obvious, mecha.

Guard 1:"Hey, look at that giant, novelty robot. Those are so cool."
Guard 2:"Seems kinda dangerous."
Guard 1:"Don't worry, it's not armored."

Later

Guard 1:"The bullets! They do nothing!"

Thundercloud Contrail (10 total slots, 5,000)
Armor 12 (1 slot, 2,400)
Mechanical Arm x 2 (4 slots, 8,000 total, 15 capacity available per arm)
-External Mount, 1 per arm (7 capacity, 5,000 for both arms)
-Armor 4 (8 capacity, 2,400 for both arms)
Nanomaintenance System, Rating 4 (1 slot, 20,000)
Reinforced Weapon Mount (2 slots, 4,000)
- External, Fixed, Remote Control (0 slots, 500)
Walker Mode (2 slots, 3,000)

Resulting stats: Handling +2, Accel 10/20, Speed 90, Pilot 1, Body 6, Armor 20, Sensor 1, Cost 42,300

Has spots for 1 vehicle main gun in the weapon mount, 2 SMGs or smaller in the mounts on the arms (which use their own actions to fire as per smart firing platforms), and whatever weaponry you want to put in its hands.

Mini-mech ("You put how many guns? On a what?")
Ferret (8 total slots, 3,000)
Mechanical Arm x 3 (6 slots, 12,000 total, 15 capacity available per arm)
-External Mount, 2 per arm (7 capacity, 15,000 for all 3 arms)
Walker Mode (2 slots, 500)

Resulting Stats: Handling +1, Accel 5/10, Speed 30, Pilot 3, Body 1, Armor 2, Sensor 3, Cost: 30,500

Has spots for 6 SMG or smaller weapons mounted on the arms as well as whatever you want to put in its 3 hands. Each arm still has 1 remaining capacity if further upgrades are desired. Switching out Walker Mode for a 4th arm allows it to mount an additional 2 SMGs, as well as giving it enough hands to manage 2 heavy weapons

Pilot and Sensor ratings for both of the above can easily still be upgraded.

with 4 Arms you would not need the walker mod.
Just have it walk around on the empty hands ^^

While we're at it, even if it has NOTHING to do with Shadowrun:
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/48878/Ge...Mr-Mech-Or-Else
Oh ye old gods i hope that this is going to be something real *-*

1) If have to check the rules again.
2) It's no mech it looks like an ordinary vehicle for a casual observer. If you don't care to hide the armor you could use obvious armor and put in chamaeleon paint.
3) Okay, "I read walker mode" and asumed it had legs. My fault.
4) Now it has them.

5) As the submachine gun had a recoil compensation of 10 I exchanged the gas vent 3 with a gas vent 2 and a ultrasound camera upgrade. And I've put in FA.


Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman with advanced cargo module converted mech {6 Slots}

- Full Mechanical Arm [15 Slots]
- Submachine Gun [10] (6 Slots)
- Firing Selection Change to FA (1)
- Gas-Vent System 2 (1)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Smartlink (1)
- Improved Range Finder (1)
- Sound Suppressor [3]
- External Clip Port [1]

- Full Mechanical Arm [16 Slots]
- Increased Capacity 1
- Grenade Launcher [15] (6 Slots)
- Firing Selection Change to SA (1)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Smartlink (1)
- Improved Range Finder (1)
- Camera Upgrade Ultrasound (1)
- Airburst Link (-)
- External Clip Port [1]

- Rigger Adaptation {1}
- Concealed Armor 10 {2}
- Smoke Projector {1}
- ECM 6 {1}
- Ejection Seat {1}

- Sensors (12 Slots)
- Microphone 3 (Audio Enhancement 3, Select Sound Filter 3, Spatial Recognizer) (1)
- Front Camera 6 (Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Image Link) (1)
- Back Camera 6 (Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Image Link) (1)
- Front Laser Range Finder (1)
- Back Laser Range Finder (1)
- Front Motion Sensor (1)
- Back Motion Sensor (1)
- Radar 6 (5)

- Equipment
- Pilot upgrade to 2
- Smart Tires



Costs: 70.000

Sup Dawg, we heard you liked mechs, so we put some mechs in your mech!

Hyundai Shin-Hyung (14 slots available, 17,000)
Armor 20 (1 slot, 4,000)
Large Drone Rack (4 slots, 4,000)
Ejection Seats (1 slot, 500)
Gun Port (1 slot, 500)
Personal Armor 10 (2 slots, 5,000)
Rigger Adaptation (1 slot, 2,500)
Walker Mode (2 slots, 5,000)

GTS Tower (4 slot available, 25,000)
Chameleon Coating (1 slot, 4,000)
Signature Masking 3 (3 slots, 6,000)

Ferret (8 total slots available, 3,000)
Limited Maneuverability (+4 slots, 100)
Mechanical Arm x 6 (12 slots, 24,000 total, 15 capacity available per arm)
-External Mount, 2 per arm (14 capacity per arm, 30,000 for all 6 arms)

Ready for the full run-down?
Buy/build 10 of the above ferrets. (571,000), 120 Ruger Thunderbolts w/ Smartguns (138,000), 10 Enfield GL-67s, (40,000), 10 Ares Vigorous Assault Canons (40,000), and 11 Vindicator Miniguns (60,500), and the following Pirated software: rating 4 Tacsoft (1,200), Pilot 6 for the Ferrets, Tower, mounts, and car (6,000), rating 4 targetting autosofts for pistols and heavy weapons (800), and a rating 4 Covert Ops autosoft (400). Mount the Thunderbolts onto the Ferret's arm-mounts, stick the ferrets into the multilaunch drone rack on the tower, put the tower in the large drone rack on the car, and hand the ferrets the huge stockpile of weapons above (mount one of the vindicators on the Tower instead). Go stomp around the city, controlling your mech from somewhere safe while the Ferrets decimate your foes (the Thunderbolts are fired by the mounts, leaving each Ferret just needing to worry about the three heavy weapons it's holding in its 6 hands). When the mech is inevitably targetted by weapons capable of destroying it, eject the Tower and hope it can hide while flying away so that most of the money you poured into this thing is recoverable.

Total cost: 931,400 (replacement chasis after the Tower successfully rescues all the ferrets and guns you put into this thing: 38,500)

How are you affording this and why are you not retiring instead?

Edit: Because I found a (relatively) quick way to make it better.

With Arsenal Errata:

Daihatsu-Caterpillar Horseman with advanced cargo module converted mech military version {6 Slots}

- Full Mechanical Arm {1} [15 Slots]
- Submachine Gun [10] (6 Slots)
- Firing Selection Change to FA (1)
- Gas-Vent System 2 (1)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Smartlink (1)
- Improved Range Finder (1)
- Sound Suppressor [3]
- External Clip Port [1]

- Full Mechanical Arm {1} [16 Slots]
- Increased Capacity 1
- Grenade Launcher [15] (6 Slots)
- Firing Selection Change to SA (1)
- Electronic Firing (2)
- Smartlink (1)
- Improved Range Finder (1)
- Camera Upgrade Ultrasound (1)
- Airburst Link (-)
- External Clip Port [1]

- Rigger Adaptation {1}
- Chameleon Coating {1}
- Armor 12 {2}
- Smoke Projector {1} overmodified in cargo space
- ECM 6 {1} overmodified in cargo space
- Ejection Seat {1}

- Sensors (12 Slots)
- Microphone 3 (Audio Enhancement 3, Select Sound Filter 3, Spatial Recognizer) (1)
- Front Camera 6 (Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Image Link) (1)
- Back Camera 6 (Low-Light Vision, Thermographic Vision, Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Image Link) (1)
- Front Laser Range Finder (1)
- Back Laser Range Finder (1)
- Front Motion Sensor (1)
- Back Motion Sensor (1)
- Radar 6 (5)

- Equipment
- Pilot upgrade to 2
- Smart Tires


Costs: 73.100

::Sneaks off to start building his Bolo::.

Why? becouse mountains of moving metal controled by one man an a AI are much cooler then mechs and I'm a battletech fan, Theres a reason why Bolo's have a catagory labled planetary seige engines, BWAHAHAAHAAH

Doc Byte: Nice design. I notice you seem to have a preference for cyberguns on these. Is there an advantage to this that I'm missing, or is it simply a matter of taste? I tend to prefer the external mounts from augmentation; they give you a bit more gun for the capacity they use as well as using their own init passes for firing, though they're certainly less subtle (less of an issue in this case, mechs generally aren't a tool for subtle work to begin with), and you're left relying on their pilot programs to aim those weapons.

From that point, Cyber-Guns are worse off.
But from a Style-Point, they are superior ^^
Integrated devices, smooth design. Firepower.
German Engineering at it's best again *snickers*

The original Horseman (before the errata) came with full arms and Arsenal said a gamemaster could allow to treat them like cyberarms. So I thought of cyberguns. The Horseman has no spare slots for additional gun turrets anyway.

I see this modified Horseman as a light reconnaissance vehicle and support for infantry troops in urban environments.

External Mounts from Augmentation; they take up 7 capacity in a full cyberarm and can hold any weapon SMG-size or smaller. It's effectively a miniature version of the smart firing platform attached to a cyberarm.

I see. Well, that would save 7 and 8 Slots. I should add some extra agility to the arms but bulk modification will do the job as well and the guns are more protected inside the arms.

Btw, do the arms have the same armor rating as the rest of the vehicle or just 3? They're still part of a bike and no cyberarms.