Sure. And still, Ghouls that are't ifections have that as a Negative Quality.

But, If I am not mistaken, Every PC Ghoul is contagious... or did I miss something somewhere?

EDIT: Whoops... Page 82, PC... Infertile Infected...Though I think that this should be a Positive Quality instead of a Negative one...

Astral hazing does not make any sense for a magician character. An starting magician character with astral hazing is literally incapable of casting spells.

Why would you do that to yourself? It makes no sense.

Only if you are sporting a Magic Rating of 4 or less...



Concept?

No, if you have an R6 magic rating, and you cannot cast a spell. First, your magic is reduced too two by the background count - knocking it down to 2. Now, with overcasting the highest force spell you can cast is Force 4 - but the background count reduces any F4 spell to F0 if the spell is cast into or through a background count. So you can only cast.. nothing at all.

Really, background count 'double dips' so it is HUGELY powerful.

It is powerful... I would say that it is doable as a concept character though... It will take some effort, but still doable...

Put that on hold for a moment, it might just be spirits that are auto disrupted. But point still stands haha.

I would make you pay the 30 karma after succeeding maybe as a karma debt. for 134 karma you have +4 magic any place whats to lose?

And this I would have absolutely no problem with...

Intrestingly, here is a confusing topic on the same subject. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t+starting+mage

I've read this whole thread and I still think that by RAW it is not really allowed or disallowed.

First part(from Geomancy):

The key thing here is the fact that it says 'ambient' background count, not background count. That means it is only for background counts that are around in the area, so like was said earlier you might be able to do it to the area around the person until they go somewhere else.

The other thing is that site and domain are not the same thing:

That means that he already counts as being aspected, so it doesn't count as just a site anymore. Usually you would resolve this by making the test and trying to get more successes than the other magician. The problem is that there is no other magician, and there is no successes to compare against, so this whole part is really a house call. You can say that because there is no magician it's automatic, or you can say because there is no magician it's impossible. Really this case is not covered in any way.

So I'm not totally sure what the ruling should be, however the first part makes me lean towards it not being able to actually attune himself. He only has an ambient radiant count when he stays somewhere, otherwise it is always pooling around him and making new haze. The other part that makes it hard to figure out is it says "a domain in her own right" which does not actually mean it is a domain.

The second part does make it possible if the gm allows it but the first part makes it impossible to even try to attune yourself. The rules in question start with this: "To use Geomancy to imprint the ambient mana flow" There are no rules for for imprinting a non ambient mana flow.

So basically, it works, and you don't like how it works. At least we have that covered.

That's not really what I was saying. There is no part in the rules that actually lets you do it, it just isn't explicitly denied. My first point is the rules are for attuning 'ambient' background count, that is a pretty big part to ignore. The character with astral hazing counts as having a background count, but does he count as being an 'ambient' background count? Ambient means a count that is ambient in an area, so it would only work on the area around him at most.

The other part is the difference between site and domain. The rules are about attuning a site, this is always the word used when talking about attuning it. A domain is a site that is attuned to a certain type of magic. There are no rules for trying to take over a domain, there are only rules for multiple people trying to make a site into a domain that is aspected to their magic. Since it counts as a domain, not a site then these rules aren't even applicable to it.

I covered all your arguements a couple pages ago. I refuse to repeat myself again.

I read through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss it. But I'll comment on your points then to show you how they don't actually address the same issue.



First you don't geomance a background count, you geomance an ambient background count. The second sentence is right in that your background count is mobile, and if that is the case it can't be ambient. You can debate about the definition of the word ambient if you want, but it's a loose reading.



Here you are saying a site is a domain, which is not the case. The site is what you attune, not the domain. It doesn't mention anything at all about attuning to a domain.

Hmm, Cracky . . not Celebrityomnipath right?

I admire the dedication of each of you beautiful people. Just wanted to mention.

Don't think so. Just a random shadowrun player that was looking up something I myself was confused about and didn't manage to find a real answer.



Why thank you.

See if you can understand this:



Therefore, with Astral Hazing, since you have a domain, you have a "site", as sought after by Geomancy.




Since Astral Hazing completely surrounds and encompasses you, it is ambient by definition.

To clarify the site/domain problem:

A site that is aspected to a given type of magic is known as a domain. Therefore, by definition, a domain is simply a site that is aspected. Also, if you aspect a site it becomes a domain. And lastly, a domain is a site that is aspected. Ergo, the aspected domain of Astral Hazing is by definition (and word-family) a site, albeit one that is aspected. But aspectation (is that a new word?) does not preclude site-ness.

The last paragraph of Geomancy highly suggests that only physical geographical locations may be geomanced, but to that I assert this: Is not the body the site, the origin, of Astral Hazing, otherwise known as an ambient backround count? Therefore, if you were to physically alter said body to better reflect a given tradition's beliefs, would that not fulfill the requirement to "re-sculpt" the "site?"

Astral Hazing doesn't surround you, it creates an effect that is. It is probably possible to attune that ambient count, I've never said it wasn't. You are always corrupting the astral space around you, when you move it stays. So yes; the effect it creates is ambient by definition, but the thing causing it isn't.



It generates a background count, it isn't a background count by itself. Now the other key thing is that it says it is a domain in her own right, which is not the same as "is a domain." You can't say everything that applies to a domain applies to it because of the ambiguous wording. Even if it does count as being a site, there are no rules for competing for a site against some already in place domain. You can compete on a site against other magicians trying to aspect the site. If the site is already a domain made by some other force, how do you handle the contest? The rules are only talking about un-aspected sites or fighting over a site with another magician. Nothing about pre-aspected sites.

Of course I understand what you're saying, please don't insult my intelligence just because I disagree with you. I'm not arguing against it being possible, I'm saying it is not covered by the rules and either way you do it is basically a house rule/hand wave.

More about domains:


If the event that causes the mana pool is corrupting astral space, how would that benefit anyone? Also because the domain is created by the Astral Hazing and not your body, it wouldn't matter what you do to it. You change the site to make it pool the mana aspected to your site. In this case the background count being made is tainted, there is no way to make it not tainted.

Are you absolutely sure about that? I thought the force is subtracted once, not twice like you say. You still can cast spells at force 2 (4 if you overcast) but you have a higher drain?

By definition, a site that is aspected is a domain just as regions of aspected background count are domains as well, but it does not necessarily follow that a domain is a site. The question that needs to be answer definitively is whether a domain is also a site by virtue of it being a domain.

I would say yes it seam tautological to me.

I would agree that it seems tautological within the limited context of Street Magic. But it is no longer so clear once Astral Hazing is factored in.

I'm officially not sure what your problem is now. If your problem is that I'm using the term Astral Hazing to refer to the backround count created by it, just replace Astral Hazing with BC wherever it causes a problem.


You are correct. I can't remember where it is, but somewhere is an example of a guy casting a spell on a moon research base, and the BC only affects his magic, not the force of the spell he cast as well.

Having read the rules over it's not clear. If the magician is inside the BC and the target isn't, the mage's magic is reduced by the rating of the BC. If the target is inside and the mage is not, the spell is reduced in force by the BC's rating. There's no rules for both outside, but BC between (likely nothing for all direct spells, indirects are another matter--the may or may not be effected) or both inside .

At least as far as I'm recalling at the moment.

Let's look at something else then.


The thing causing the Background Count is the source of the aspect. The source in a regular domain has to do with the physical objects in the area, this is why you have to move them around for geomancy. The source in astral hazing is something different though, the source of astral hazing is it feeding on your emotions and tainting astral space around you. Changing your body will not change the source, so it can't count as changing a site. As long as you are generating a tainted background count it can't be beneficial, and according to Astral Hazing you are always generating a tainted background count.

The closest thing you could call the 'site' would have to be your genes, and you would have to alter them somehow to make the cause of the background count different just like changing a normal site would do.

Actually, the BC is being caused, not by your genes, but by thoughts and emotions pooling around you (possibly also caused by you). So, with proper mental and emotive training, you would be able to better coincide with your given tradition. For example, a shaman thanking the Great Spirit before each meal (maybe even before each bite), and giving apologies to every enemie's spirit that he kills.

But basically, I thought that:
1) The Astral Hazing is caused by your body.
2) Changing your body looks cooler than thinking differently. Also, changing your body would cause others to think differently about you, further changing the general "mood" of whatever location you are in.

I honestly think you're reading way too far into this.

That's a good point, I thought of the emotions being a site too. I decided against mentioning it though because the background count doesn't fluctuate based on your emotions. Since the trait is a genetic one, I went with that. You could make a good case for the emotional thing though.

I agree the body idea is cool, like maybe full body tattoos and what not.

I probably am reading too much into it. I'm not against it though, I'm just trying to say that by the book it's not really covered at all.

Personally this is a case where I think the "proper" solution is to throw heavy objects at the head of whoever tried to pull it off at the table.

I was thinking even more than full tattoos, like what Nightcrawler did in X-Men 2. Scarification, tattoos, and implants. For example, a Christian tradition branding crosses into his skin, and scarring his hands and feet as if he were crucified, as well as tattooing some scriptures on himself (although all of that is clearly against the Bible - look in Leviticus - for the sake of an example I gave it).

Besides, Astral Hazing is not genetic; it is an Awakened anomoly. You are not reborn into a CZ, you are made one. Although I see your reasoning if gained from SURGE...