Ok, by RAW there doesn't seem to be. But by physics (and Fluff) they do. Trodes work by pumping Ultrasound (And other things) into the brain exciting different parts and making them do fun things. They recieve signals by reading your brainwaves like an EEG (In fact an EEG machine is really the only use Trodes currently have.) Your bodies natural electrical discharges would throw off the Trodes so much if they are placed anywhere bar your head that they become useless.

And on Datajacks, I imagine that they just ride your Central Nervous system like all other implants. Those installed in a Cyberarm uses the same channels that the Arm itself uses to provide DNI.

And on the Skinlink, as far as I am aware the Skinlink does not provide DNI. All it does is lets electrical signals use the bodies natural electrical field to transmit data. If you want DNI you still have to either be wearing Trodes or have a Datajack.

It is easier to turn on your 'jack with a thought then it is to find your trodes, turn on the power, put them on your head, make sure that the DNI connection is working, ect...

Personally I'd doubt that you could use glue or tape on the actual trodes themselves given that they have to be able to read your thoughts. Plus using glue or tape around hair just sounds ... painful.

As an implant, the memory in your 'jack is always with you even if you don't want to be ( or can't ) be connected at the moment.

Yes, trodes have to be on your head in order to be able to have a DNI connection with your brain, the external portion of a 'jack doesn't have to be simply because no matter where the "plug" is located the 'jack has to be literally hardwired into your brain.

Thanks for the clarification on trodes placement and how they work.

Sure it is easier to turn on your datajack with a thought but it is still something you have to actively do. As a contact wearer I can tell you that it wouldn't be much of a bother to put on trodes each morning. Also you are forgetting that the house can be programmed to automatically turn on when your biorythmns show that you are awake (owner is awake, turn on floor guidelights so he can see way to bathroom, start brewing coffee).

If the trodes work by ultrasound and electrodes I seriously doubt that glue or tape will affect it. Glue wouldn't be painful at all. According to Arsenal for 45 you get a glue so powerful they are more likely to rip your scalp off and a solvent that will painlessly take it off afterwards. (Arsenal 80-81)

You aren't wearing any underwear!?!

The big advantage is being able to slot chips.

hi hi

Judging from some of the descriptions of trodes in Unwired, I would probably say that someone could make trodes that go anywhere along the spinal column too, but thats a little more iffy. Some of the trodes only seem to cross the cerebellum, which is linked more to movement.

I have to agree with the fitting of Trodes. For one thing the morning ritual stuff can all easily be controlled with Vocal Control (Is it that much of an effort to tell your home computer to brew your coffee over sending it with a thought?). And then all you have to do is either smear some gunk on your head (Gel Trodes) or slip on a headband. Dont even have to string wires about the place if you use wireless (And most people would be using wireless. It's just us Runners who are so paranoid it seems). Would be as difficult as remembering to put on your glasses in the morning (or contacts). Current generation Electrodes fit using fairly friendly gel, sure its hell to get out hair but other than that it 'aint so bad. I am sure that by 2070 they have worked such things out. We have nanites for fraks sake, I think we can figure out something as simple as Trode Gel

However I would also say that Datajacks are one of the most common implants around. I would get one without a second thought (But then I am quite transhuman in such regards and would gladly get implants.) I am forgetful as hell, and not having to worry about forgetting my Trodes on the bus would be a massive bonus for me.

P.S; I pity all you none Technomancer. Being able to just tap into the Matrix at will makes life so much easier. Even if I do have to carry about a commlink or have papers for an internal so I dont look like a freak.

Well again, as I and several other people have mentioned, everyone who had to do any Matrix work before the Crash 2.0 likely has datajacks. Is your hacker about 23 years old? Why didn't you take a datajack.

Because this Hacker changed careers after his drinking buddy (a decker) was killed by Jormungandr.

He is 28, a Dwarf, and was 16 when he was taken into care by Transys Neuronet when he SURGE'd what they thought was electromagnetic control (Latent Technomancer abilities). He wasn't old enough to have a Datajack legally installed at the time, and he was in an orphanage before that. Transys didn't see much use in installing a Datajack, why would they need to when their subject can mentally tap into wireless systems.

I have it all written up if your curious

(They thought his Technomatic abilities were caused by SURGE because they manifested during '61, and he is actually a SURGE "victim". Increased Mental Capacity with mood effected hair (All of it, not just that on his head. Makes social situations difficult if the person knows about it. Thankfully my GM has let me take Meditation as a knowskill that helps control it) and eyes with no visible white, they look like massive iris'. CB was lucky, some SURGE victims came out of it with much more obvious, and easier to discriminate against, changes.)

Hell my Chaos Mage has a datajack (it's built into his cyberhand) and a cyber commlink (which is also built into his cyberhand)... I guess that makes him an old fuddy duddy.

Well i still stand by my assessment that if trodes are as good as a wirelink there's no reason to believe that any amount of air gap is a signifigant impedance to VR work. Think for a will, users being pulled into VR just by virtue of walking into a room and the corp feeling vicious. Black IC for everyone.

Okay, I'm gonna toss in my two bits, although I'll admit I'm not exactly the most knowledgeable in SR.

Having read over the entire thread and most of the SR4 books, I've come away with the opinion that Trodes are kind of a cheap replacement meant for everyone and that datajacks are meant for the real hackers. I kinda think it's like how in real life you can play a flight sim with a keyboard and mouse, but anyone who's even remotely serious about their flight games buys a joystick.

As for various arguments one way or the other, I have a few points to bring up.

• Any new datajack will come with wireless built in, and I'll bet you can easily buy a small plug-style adapter for the old-skool deckers who have wired-only datajacks. This would enable anyone with a datajack to switch between linking via cable and via wireless on the fly. I don't see the reverse being true with trodes, I don't think wired trodes would be practical. Picture this: You and your team have been scoping out this facility for weeks. Your Face got a job there and "acquired" the right passcodes by sleeping with the right managers. Your Shaman made sure the Astral was clear and your Sam is looking out the door for guards. You're on now, it's your time to shine. You walk up to the system and realize it's not hooked up to any wireless and your trodes won't interface with it at all. Good job, now you're stuck in AR mode, working off your comlink; or broadcasting from your link to your trodes for all to see. Weeks of work wasted just because you had to skimp on the cyber.
• Datajacks are easier to hide from casual inspection, I would think. (As I imagine it) You've either got a small headphone sized jack behind your ear, small sticky dots all over your forehead, or a sweatband. Which one do you think is gonna be easiest to spot?
• Trodes are cheap, but as with all electronics, you get what you pay for. I would seriously consider implementing the burnout rules suggested earlier in any semi-realistic game I run.
• Again with the flimsiness issue. I can't see any really dedicated hacker trusting his wetware to cheap components. You didn't skimp on the comm, the OS, or any of the dozen or more programs you've got ready to slot at a moments notice, so why would you trust your organics to the cheapest interface you can find?
• Now, as a point in favor for trodes, they will work with anyone, so anyone can become a poweruser in their own right. This would be pretty good for groups without a dedicated hacker or rigger, or as a way for all the team to participate in a "Matrix-only" run.
• BTLs never really seemed to be a lower class drug to me, I always thought of them being aimed more at the wageslaves since they're the ones with money to burn and datajacks installed already. Trodes just don't feel robust enough in my mind to handle BTLs and still maintain the "Better Than" that makes them so addicting.

As a house rule, I'll probably work out a price/mechanics system that allows for trodes of varying levels of quality. They seem a lot like earbuds for PMPs now, you can get a pair for two bucks or you can buy an amazing pair of name-brand-noise-canceling-plugs-into-your-cell-and-has-a-mic-built-into-the-cord earbuds for a lot more. Just off the cuff, I think I'll probably start the 50 dollar ones off with a Response of 3 (average, IIRC?) and have ones available at different ratings for different prices. To me, that seems like a pretty good way to simulate the fact that you aren't gonna be able to handle MCT's Black IC near as well when you're sporting a pair of Stuffer Shack brand trodes; but if you splurge for a set of Saeder-Krupp-Bose trodes you just might it out alive.

-Neko

Aye Cheops I used to wear contacts, then I got my eyes lasered so I don't have to worry about it, IF I could have gotten cybereyes that did everything they can do in the Sixth World I would have gotten those instead. True, it might not be a huge ammount of hassle, but people tend to be creatures of comfort, how much time will we spend looking for a lost remote instead of manually changing the station?

And no, I might not be wearing underware at any given time, and I never ever want to have to tell someone that my files are on my other pair of undies. Seriously though, this is all I'm going to say about the possiblity of clothes or even devices that wouldn't need it having unlimited memory by default, it's silly and something that should have never been included into the setting, especially with the ready workaround of having wireless datachips.

I would wonder at what level would clothes have memory built in. Would cheap clothes have them or would you have to have Chic clothing to have the memory. It would explain the price difference between cheap and chic clothing which is 20 times the price of cheap clothing. The price difference comes up with chic clothing having built in data storage or biomonitors or <insert cheap gizmo of choice>.

That's the way it is in the real world, actually, and it all comes down to the name. I used to have a friend who wore $200 t-shirts that swore up and down because they were Italian, they were better. Besides, I think that memory in clothing is more of a function/brand name issue than a price issue. An Afro-Flash style skirt for a desert shaman most likely won't have memory, while a plaid skirt for a school girl would, despite costing much less.

Neko

OK Neko, I can see that. What do you think would be the price for clothes that didn't have any electronics? Reason being I would get those for my Chaos Mage and then use the Fashion spell to turn them into chic clothing.

I think I'd use modern clothing prices for a basis, that's one thing I don't see changing much in the next 60 years. A quick recon trip to the mall should give you an idea. Don't just look in the stores you'd shop at either, duck into a few of those stores you'd never be caught dead in (yes, go hit Victoria's Secret) so you know what's out there. Given that you can get a decent 2GB or 4GB flash drive for about $10, I'd tack that onto the price of whatever style/name of clothing they want if they're paying for clothes with memory.

For clothes with other gadgets (necklace with a built in comlink?!) I'd use the prices found in the books, in addition to the price of the clothes. More expensive clothes or more extreme modifications will obviously cost more, potentially wandering into the realm of thousands of nuyen for a "simple" gown or suit. Pages 44-48 of Arsenal is a good place to look for armored up clothes and their capacities (for adding gadgets), if that's what you're after.

As for cheap clothes, drop by a K-Mart or Wal-mart and poke around. A general rule of thumb is $10-12 for plain Ts, $15-20 for logo shirts, and $25-40 for jeans/khakis. Of course, that's for guys. Not being female, I have no idea what a woman would actually pay for clothes. I could ask my wife, but I've learned long ago not to ask what she actually spends on clothes. Me and my bank account are happier that way.

-Neko