Real-world computer/tech knowledge is almost totally irrelvant to SR computer/tech. Always remember that the game world has its own natural laws.

It's a 4e thing. Look at how unnecessary cybereyes are now when you can just have contacts or glasses. Smartlink doesn't require any cyber anymore for the full benefits. It's just the way it goes.

I also thought the change in trodes was a bit odd. Nice in someways but certainly disempowering for those characters who paid the Essence.

In Unwired it states that the simsense feedback is much better when done via DNI, but mechanically, there is no distinction. That sucks.

- J.

I think the reason it doesn't bother me is that I remember when there was plenty of cyber / bioware that didn't really make a mechanical difference, but existed solely for the rp /style of the characters that took it. I have no problem with the datajack being that way, and I know of a lot of characters that will take one for those reasons. Just look at all the people who posted in this thread talking about the look or thematic feel of the datajack. Why does it have to be mechanically better?

And besides... There are fluff reasons that the DNI interface of the datajack is better than Trodes...
So even if there are no mechanical differences, the Fluff Differences are still there and can (and probably should) be played up...

No, you are. 11n's THEORETICAL max is 300 mbs. No product will EVER reach that speed. 11g's max is 108, you won't ever get above 27 in any product. We've already got 100gbit ethernet, and plans for 1terabit ethernet for release next year.

All of which doesn't matter to the actual point of the post. If it hits over 100mbs, then the wireless is no longer the limiter.

I like how you claim that we will never hit those speeds, in discussions about a jack that is plugged directly into the brain. I agree that by the standards of current technology, it doesn't make sense for a skinlink and a datajack to function at the same speed. But in the world of Shadowrun, apparently it makes perfect sense.

hi hi

There are still those who think vinyl produces superior quality, but my mp3s get the job done just fine. Big D put a lot of money out there for research on trodes that are just as good as datajacks, and I'm betting it eventually got results.

Signal ratings don't seem to have any effect on the quality of data transfer, maybe I'm missing something, but my understanding is that even a device with a signal rating of 0 can have a response of 6. Response seems to be limited by the processor, not the connection, so my understanding is the quality of the connection isn't much of a bottleneck.

I had forgotten about the section of D's Will that left a prize for someone who came up with trodes that were as good as a datajack.

Technically, trodes are DNI.

Imagine for a moment that there was a device that could allow you to instantly know ANY skill that didn't require muscle memory, speak ANY language, and acted like a truely wireless universal control for almost everything ranging from your shower controls, toaster, lights, car, ect, ect, ect...

Now imagine that this very same device could fairly easily be turned into a chokepoint of death for your cyberware PAN, was almost impossible to take away, and was literally with you and working twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week.

Hell bells, even Mages should want one of these wonderful devices.

Fragging double post.

Shouldn't have used trodes.

But actually I very much agree with Ravor in this. Because players aren't really immersed in all the minutiae of the game world, its easy to overlook many advantages that their characters would appreciate - much the same way they always want to wear armour while they sleep or are content to live Low lifestyle when they could afford much more. The datajack user doesn't have to fumble for her trodes in the morning when they wake up, it doesn't get dislodged if you want to browse stock prices while you're having sex (a character in my game has been known to do this), trode nets are incompatible with Eighties style hairstyles. You could easily add other fluff details such as battery life being much shorter with trodes, incompatible with cyberskulls, uncomfortable for prolonged use due to getting hot (after talking on my mobile for two hours, the right side of my head feels like I've baked it), more expensive because you have to keep buying the special conductive adhesive that sticks it to your head. Even the possibility of it getting dislodged is a risk - imagine if it gets pulled off while you're driving or running skillwires to operate heavy machinery.

I would personally really like to rule Trodes allow Cold SIM only, as an earlier poster suggested. Unfortunately this creates a Fluff Crash with BTL usage, so I've refrained from this solution. But I can certainly see good reasons why, in reality (this phrase is so wrong in this context), characters would much prefer to get a datajack. Even the fact that it costs 500 is a bit of statement in itself as it shows that you are either (a) serious about jacking in or (b) have the money to do so.

My thoughts,

K.

You cannot jam trodes, nor wash them off, I think if someone is skinned alive they are probably dead so it doens't matter, you can always unplug the trodes and visa versa, you can do that with skinlink, trodes pass through security and you can just plug one commlink directly into the other and it's not like you don't have that. Or just use skinlinks.

And seriously, a Datajack costs ESSENCE.

In the rules datajacks are garabage. Their either needs to be a penalty to using other solutions, or a benefit to having a hole drilled in your skull.

And your point is? 'Jacks are very cheap even in Essence terms and it's not like anyone really needs all of the Essence they are born with, not even Mages.

*EDIT*

And as it has been pointed out, yes you can jam a Trodenet given their ultra low Signal Rating, 'Jacks are cheap enough that it's not a problem to buy Alpha or even Betagrade in order to get the automatic boost in stats.

hi hi

Trodes combined with an external sim rig will allow a player to access Knowsofts and Linguasofts.

I suppose if a GM wanted a grittier setting where even mages used up essence, they could house rule that everyone starts the game with 5.9 essence instead of 6. That would also help make sure that people who are playing mages do so because they really want to, rather then because they're being munchkins, since magic users are supposed to be rare anyway.

Also, datajacks have the annoying downside of being susceptible to plug-stoppers in the worst way. Where as a stoppered trode headband could just be replaced, a stoppered datajack might require medical treatment.

*EDIT*

The jamming of trodes only works by jamming the connection between the trodes and their commlink. If you connect your trodes to your commlink via cable or skinlink, they cannot be jammed.

IceKatze, I would like to point out that you have yet to counter my point. Yes trodes allow a DNI between your commlink and you. However, nothing in their rules says they allow a DNI to *ALL* of your cyberware, where as a Datajack does.

And as Ravor pointed out, a Datajack can make a very very effective chokepoint into your PAN.

Where to start?

Firstly, the idea that "pure" Mages are more powerful in any meaningful way than one with alittle cyber/bio is a myth provided that your DM actually enforces the spellcasting rules and assumes that the corps security designers aren't a bunch of retarded monkeys throwing poop at the wall. It is EASY to make spellcasting damn near impposible for "pure" Mages while their cybered counterparts are only slightly annoyed.

If you are in a place to have your Cybereyes disabled, then you are also in a place to have your mundane eyes gouged out by red hot pokers. Guess what? 'Jacks also fall into the same boat, if you are in a place to have a plug-stopper jammed into your skull you are already so fragged six ways from Sunday so just drop your pants, bend over and pray to the Spirits that Bubba the love Troll decides to use lube this time.

And sure, if you want to fumble around with multiple devices that can be jammed/hacked/lost/ect a trode net can mimic the function of a 'jack. Now for a minute forget that you are playing a series of numbers on a piece of paper and pretend that 'jacks existed in real life, would you want to have to make sure that multiple widgets were turned on and talking to each other properly instead of being able to jump out of bed ready to go? Seriously, I curse my bluetooth mouse whenever it doesn't access my laptop the way it is supposed to, runs out of batteries, or any number of hassles. And sometimes the infernal thing decides to stop talking to my computer in the middle of using it!

hi hi

Most cyberware already provides a DNI. SR4A p. 338 and Augmentation p. 31

"A datajack allows a user to directly interface with any electronic device via fiberoptic cable."

If you wanted to string fiberoptic cable through your body to all of your cyberware, you could probably attach those cables to a trode net too. But while the rules on the datajack say you *could* attach them to fiber optic cables, it doesn't say that they necessarily do. The rules don't imply that you are automatically connected to your cyberware through the datajack any more than they imply that you are automatically connected to "any electronic device."

• Trodes and datajacks connect to the brain.
• Everything else must be plugged in separately.
• Anything you plug into them you can establish DNI with.
• Any activatable cyberware already has DNI.

-----

I ran in a game once where one of the players (an adept) was very fond of jamming plug-stoppers into people's datajacks during combat. Called shot: remove cable, next initiative pass, called shot: insert plug-stopper. If he happened upon someone while they were in VR, it was quite easy to dumpshock and plug-stop them. (it got even worse once he picked up missile mastery)

When I wake up in the morning, I hop out of bed, grab my cell phone, my wallet and my keys off the desk right next to me. Those items could pretty easily be replaced by a Renraku DreamBand. In addition, the same plugin that recharges it overnight could give it wired access to my utilities.

If you are in a situation where you have to worry about your trode net running out of juice, you're in a situation where you have to worry about your commlink running out as well. Unless you have an internal commlink, but thats a little bit more essence. But then one wonders what the character would be jacking into at all.

Everything, including your fragging underware is wireless so yeah, the rules do imply that someone with a 'jack can connect with pretty much any electronic device. And you aren't seriously comparing picking up your wallet, phone, and keys to applying a trodenet are you? And can your phone turn on the lights, adjust your shower, and start your morning coffee brewing all while you stumble out of bed?

As for your fellow adept, my gut reasction is simply to scoff at overly lenient DMs, especially considering that although 'jacks can use cables, like everything else in Fourth Edition they are fully wireless enabled and no longer has to be located on one's skull even.

hi hi

Yes, with wireless you can connect to any electronic device. This is not in dispute. It is a question of whether or not it is connected to any device and any given point in time. Jamming, turning off the wireless link, firewalls etc. will alter ones ability to connect to any electronic device.

I am seriously comparing picking up my wallet, phone and keys to applying a trodenet. I'll need to pick up my commlink too, but I'd have to do the same thing with a datajack so it isn't really a relevant distinction, and it would probably already be linked to my trodes anyway. Since I am an average joe, I would unlock my apartment and my car, pay for items at the local stuffershack, talk to my friends with a DNI via a trode connection to my commlink.

In 2070, my phone damn well better be able to turn on the lights, adjust my shower and start my morning soycaff, it is my connection to the wireless afterall. Putting a trode band on is a heck of a lot easier then the morning routine of putting contact lenses in, just pick it up off the end-table and slip it on over the ears.

As for datajacks in other locations, all he needs is a couple hits on an assensing roll, or enough hits on a perception roll. When you put your datajack in a hard to reach place, it is hard for you to reach as well. Also, a basic armorer roll could combine a plug-stopper with a headjammer. (the GM wasn't being particularly lenient, the player built his character around being a martial arts master, and being able to mess people up. His other tricks involved things like throwing stim patchs or trauma patches on mages or jamming gunk into people's guns)

Datajacks would be a little more secure, because most people wouldn't expect you to have one.

And wouldn't there be 'add-ons', like a bluetooth adapter for those who do have datajacks? A wireless 'plug' that could just as easilly allow one with a 'jack to be wireless, but then just simply pull the plug to make sure you're secure.

A datajack can be put in an "out-of-the-way' place, like behind the ear (see Johnny Mnemonic).

hi hi

You could modify your trode headband to run a fiber-optic cable and plug through your clothes and then plug things in at your wrist, belt, shoe or wherever, then turn off it's wireless link.

Still have a headband on though.

And I repeat my comment about overly lenint DMs if he was allowing the Adept to be jamming gunk into people's guns in the midst of combat.

hi hi

Strict dice pool modifiers were most certainly applied. If the defender is unaware that the attack is even coming, perhaps stealth and ruthenium polymers are employed, it makes stopping such an attack very difficult. If anything, the GM was too strict, requiring more then the maximum -4 dice for called shots.

----
Wearing something over one's head doesn't seem to deter people too much from wearing glasses or headphones. If anything, I imagine people in 2070 would be wearing goggles and respirators already as a normal part of walking outside in New Seattle, especially with all the falling ash lately.

Then we are no longer talking about something that is done in the midst of combat, but rather an ambush, which is it? Is the adept sticking jack-stoppers into jacks and plugging gun barrels in the midst of combat as you orginally claimed? Or is he merely able to sleathly sabotage people if the condictions were right.

hi hi

There are no rules that state "once combat starts, all stealth, invisibility spells and abilities are nullified." Defender unaware is in fact a combat modifier. While the gun bunny of the party (who was very good at one-shotting people with a significant margin of error, and vastly more problem causing for the GM) maintains the guard's attention, there's no reason why they must also be aware of the guy gecko crawling across the ceiling to get behind them.

Besides, stealth was just one example of how the tactic could be easily achieved. Not all goons are skilled enough in hand to hand combat to prevent a specialized adept from yanking their fiberoptic cable out and inserting a plug-stopper, and typically the ones that are skilled enough at hand to hand were not the target of such a maneuver. The rigger standing in the back who is specialized in mental attributes usually is.

And ambushes aside I still mantain that you haven't actually thought about exactly what would be required to insert gunk in either a 'jack or a gun barrel in the middle of combat other than "It's magic!", I don't really have a problem with pulling the cable while in melee, but in a wireless and skinlinked world it isn't likely to actually acomplish much.

Besides, the entire point is nothing more than a distraction since IF I were to accept your 'jack plugging adept it would be easier for him to yank or otherwise destroy trodes.

hi hi

Now you're just being insulting, there's no reason to make accusations about the shortcomings of my mental processes. If you would like to point out a specific reason why someone wouldn't be able to insert object A into object B during combat, please elaborate. From my perspective, inserting object A into object B is a common practice during combat, and there are rules for called shots if someone wants to be picky about where object A goes.

I never said trodes weren't easier to remove, in fact that was part of my point. Trodes are easy come, easy go. Datajacks on the other hand, when they get messed up, require a lot more effort to fix.

----
Honestly, I preferred the thematic qualities of earlier editions where everything was wired, but in 2070 it is a wireless world and them's the breaks. Trodes becoming uncalibrated on a glitch or burned out on a critical glitch are good ways to make datajacks better in my opinion.

*sighs* Ok, let's try this again, the hole at the end of a gunbarrel is very small, hell I'd even go as far as say that it's tiny. Let's factor in the fact that a firearm that is being held, especailly in combat is going to be moving around and the fact that the adept is trying to shove something into a hole that very fast pieces of lead comes out of, making it a very good way of getting yourself shot. The rules for called shots talks about headshots, targeting things that are being held, ect not anything as outlandish as you've described.

*EDIT*

And I honestly wasn't trying to be insulting, I really do believe that you simply haven't taken the time to think the adept's tricks through.

*EDIT 2.0*

I do agree with your comment on glitches, it sounds perfectly reasonable and is actually supported under RAW even.

hi hi

It is true that the hole in the barrel of a gun is very small, but you don't need to neatly fit a plug-stopper into the barrel of a gun to prevent it from firing for a while. Adhesive slap patches, freeze-foam, a handful of mud if firmly applied can do the trick well enough.

No, this is a misconception borne of TV. A gun will still fire with a barell obsctruction, the point where barrell obstructions become dangerous is when they refreact the force of the explosion more efficiently then the barrel itself channels or refracts a sginifigant amount back. If you fail to stop up a gun sufficiently you'll have an explosively cleared barrel and the potential for some barrel deformation.

hi hi

Rating 6 freeze foam has a barrier rating somewhere between ballistic glass and a light post. I can't find info on the barrier rating of a barrel, but both seem pretty resilient. Also by placing adhesives on the hammer, or any moving part of the action really, you would require an opposed strength vs 9 or more to separate the pieces.

----
Now that I think about it... I should have my character start carrying around a kit with specialize solvents in it for these sorts of things.

Are you seriously saying you would volunteer to have a hole drilled in your skull to make connectivity between your car and your GPS easier?

The 'realistic' option is to bin 'having power tools applied to skull' and go for the trode net! I'm more than happy to plug in several devices if it means I don't have to resurrect the ancient art of trepanning. Remember, they don't even give you a general for this one. You are awake while someone drills a hole in your skull. This is seriously creepy shit man.

Plus yeah, trode nets cannot be jammed. Plus, any character I play skin links has absolutely everything they own, minimising cables.

It's 2070. Datajacks have been out for decades. Your parents have them! The technology is mature, accepted and SR2070 is a world where people into extreme sports might have their bones laced with titanium and teenagers can buy designer eyes that scroll messages. There have been some good, strong arguments against datajacks in this thread. But arguments starting "do you seriously think people would..." are doomed, imo. The answer, when you look around, is "yes - people always would..."

On the issue of jamming datajacks with gunk, it's a pretty big red-herring. Yes - it wouldn't be easy in combat, but at the same time under Shadowrun rules, it should be possible. I could see an adept grabbing someone in a brief headlock and jamming a plug in there. Especially if they were using foam or mud or something else that didn't require precision. And yanking out a cable is also possible. But I have to say it makes little diffferent and its a shame to see two smart people start to argue over it. If you're in a position to pull out a cable, you're in an even easier position to whip off their trodes (and you can steal them too). And similarly if you jam a plug, that doesn't stop someone putting on a trode net as a backup. And datajacks have wireless capability. If yout want, you can enable it with a thought and still connect. And besides all this - if you can stick a plug in a socket at the base of someone's skull (example placing) in the midst of combat, then you can do far worse things to them. Anyway, the implicit assumption that both sides are making in arguing over this, is that anyone would make a decision of whether to choose trodes or a datajack on the basis of someone jamming something into the latter in a fight. That's like choosing your mobile phone on how well it might stop a bullet if it's in your breast pocket. The argument has been raised because, I think, both factions have put forth their main arguments and, perceiving the other side to have not accepted them, are arguing about trivial things.

I'm actually with Ravor on his original arguments. I do see reasons for their to be plenty of datajacks. I do, to avoid a Fluff Crash with BTL use, have to play down differences in quality between trodes and datajacks, even though fluff in Unwired says otherwise and even though you'd think, based on real world physics, it would not be the case. However, I listed a number of reasons why datajacks would be preferable and acceptable earlier. I didn't list reasons why they would be necessary - I don't think that is the case anymore in 4th Ed. - but there is room for them to be desirable over trodes without us getting into a binary situation where we have to argue datajacks are either utterly required or completely obsolete.

Lets look at them again:

• A datajack will never get dislodges whether you are jogging in the woods, grappling in combat or having sex (and yes, if I can think of uses for SIMsense during sex, I'm sure that you lot can and that the decadents of SR2070 certainly would). That last reason alone probably sells some.
• You have it instantly the moment you want it. This is the one where you have just woken up and want to tell your kitchen to put the coffee on or check the stock prices.
• Compatible with your favourite new hairstyle. Now you don't have to look like a tennis player with your headband for example or perhaps you want giant Eighties hair. You know how quickly fashions change in the corporate world of SR2070. Are you always going to be buying the latest model? SR4A says trode nets are often concealed under "headbands, hats or wigs". There's definitely some inconvenience here.
• Cheap. A datajack is 500 which is very little for a lot of people. It is especially not much if you corporation has you fitted with it, which I consider likely.
• The datajack comes with internal storage. Never be inconvenienced by absence of your data again, e.g. you might get mugged and your trodes and commlink are gone with all the data that was on it. It could dissappear while you're in the gym. The datajack user never worries about this stuff. And given how much secure and confidential data there is in the corporate world of SR2070, that is an advantage.
• It looks professional. If you've gone to the trouble / paid the cost / had the cost paid by your corp to get the datajack, even though its fairly cheap, it's still a mark of someone who is serious about being plugged in. I don't see much advantage of ties, but I still see a lot of people wearing them and they're something that is based in pure fashion and culture, whereas a datajack actually does have some basis for marking you as "professional".

And then we have the really "fluff" reasons. The things that will never get brought up in a game, but which if you were a real person in a real SR2070, you might get irritiated by. If it's hot, maybe you don't want to be wearing a hat, cap, wig or headband. Maybe if you're sweating or it rains, it doesn't work as well. Maybe it gets hot like a mobile phone with long use. Maybe it leaves little red marks where the trodes are stuck on. We've all seen players that want their characters to live in a squat eating Nukit Burkers whilst hording a fortune in cyberware and guns. And we've mostly been pretty annoyed with their addiction to game effects over the character's actual needs / believability. There might be few game effects of trodes over datajacks (though some have been listed in this thread), but there may be few game effects of living Low Lifestyle over High - it doesn't mean they're not different.

That's where I'm coming from and, I think where Ravor was coming from, before both sides started pushing each other into arguing over jamming gun barrels in combat. Are datajacks strictly better than trodes in game effects? Yes, but only in a few small ways. Is there good fluff and reason to think that datajacks would be popular considering their low cost and "get it done after work on your way home" installation difficulty? I think very much so and there are paragraphs in Unwired that support that.

So we can agree to differ. But I think we don't have to. There's middle ground here. You don't have to think that trodes are useless or grossly inferior to think that datajacks might still be popular or have advantages.

My 0.02 for those that want it,

Peace,

Khadim.

Hell, if nothing else, put the damn datajack in a cyberlimb and be done with it.

I did that with my Chaos Mage character. I even have the Cure Disease Fetish as a rune etched datachip with all known information for every metahuman diseases on it. He uses it by plugging it into his datajack.

Lots of people have hip replacements and knee reconstructions, or tattoos. My grandfather has several tats. It doesn't mean that the idea doesn't give me the screaming heebie jeebies. Anyway, datajacks are still jank. Seriously in combat most characters wear a hood or helmet, and 99% of characters are probably wearing googles, a gas mask or a flash visor. How do you even knock someones headband off when they have all the other crap in the way. Plus, how often do you knock that stuff off your players? Really?

Anyway, lets talk advantages. You don't seem to have these right. I mean you talk about cheap? A datajack costs what, 50 times as much as a trode net AND costs less than 0.1 essence. Badass.

Incidentally, serval things you mention as advantages are actually disadvantages.

Being always on is a disadvantage in SR4. If you have it on, I can connect to you while you are asleep, put you in hotVR and black hammer... your mum. Or something. That is a great feature of the trode net. The trode net cannot also be targetted by those stupid nanites that switch your hardware onto on. and connect you up to some guy, who will then black hammer your ass. Whereas with the trode net you can just rip it off and grind it under your boots.

Remember, being able to totally disconnect and go 1970s is a straight up and down advantage in SR, not a disadvantage.

Because shoving a metal spike into your braincase to access the Matrix is more hardcore.






-karma

True, though the truly paranoid would incorporate a physical on/off-switch in their datajack.

This thread has been very interesting to read. Thank you all.

Okay - tattoos freak you personally out. Half the people I know have a tattoo or therabouts. Very, very common in the UK, particularly on British girls. Countless instances of Shadowrun fluff illustrate that similarly in SR2070 people aren't freaked out by datajacks. There are probably people like yourself who are freaked out by the idea, but its clearly not the general case. And really your own argument about the equivalence of trodes and datajacks turns on itself now, because most people wont see a difference between blasting their head with electromagnetic waves and ultrasound, and just having the wires go straight in. The latter is probably safer in that it would be more precise and require lower voltages.




Not often. Although it looks like they're about to get a dunk in the Pacific next session so they might get a bit wet. Anyway, what are you arguing? I'm talking about datajacks among the population, not PCs. I don't consider this a big factor in-game, though fluff-wise, I listed several instances where it would be the case. I don't think people normally go around wearing gas masks. And since you want to make a point of it, a gas mask would normally make it more likely to dislodge the trodes. I've worn one - even without knocking it against something, the weight of it is always pulling it about. If you wore a headband under one, it would probably end up around your nose.



Ten times the cost, actually. And it's cheap anyway. A half-decent light costs more than ten times the cost of a packet of matches, but if it still only costs US$15 dollars, you're going to buy one if you want it. Chip heads and SINless aren't going to buy datajacks very often, but to a wageslave it's not much and can probably even be bought as part of a work scheme if its relevant to their job.

I don't think many people care about losing 0.1 Essence. Again, by fluff, surgery is commonplace and it has no measurable effect on anyone but the magically active. I'm not sure what you mean by "badass".



It doesn't have to be always on (assuming that you're talking about wireless connectivity). You can turn it on or off with a thought. You can't put someone in Hot VR unless their hardware has been modified for it. If you're not talking about wireless connectivity, but sneaking into someone's bedroom and jacking a cable in, then you can do the same with trodes. Also, my mum could out roll Lofwyr on Social tests. You wouldn't stand a chance.



I'll grant you that one. Now find me someone who chickened out of getting a datajack because they were worried someone might inject them with nanites so that they could turn their wireless on and Black Hammer them. That's beyond Edge case, which brings us back to what I was saying in my previous post. Main and sensible arguments have been made. Continuing to argue is driving people to dredge the bottom for ever more trivial advantages and disadvantages. I don't get why you are so set against datajacks being in use. The advantages over trodes are not large (for the most part), but they exist whilst the disadvantages are also there, but they are tiny. I would think the natural conclusion is that datajacks are not as common as they were, but there are still plenty around.



I can picture the forlorn datajack salesman staring at his overstocked warehouse now and moaning "Nanites, if it weren't for the nanites, these would be flying off the shelves." You know you can, normally, turn off a datajack as a Free Action?

Peace,

Khadim.

hi hi

Ideally, there would be advantages and disadvantages to both methods, but it would seem that the benefits and drawbacks are debatable. Ultimately, it seems as though it comes down to personal preference.

Aye, knasser basically has the right of it, and I can also attest to the fact that it isn't a good idea to try to wear a mask, hardhat, ect with something that has to stay in one place, not to mention the fact that the population in general as well as the PCs will probably want to be able to connect without having to wear a helmet so I don't really buy the argument that people will just have their trodes built into those.

And yes, IF there was a technology that was proven to be so easy and safe that I could get it installed during my lunchbreak that would let me do the things a 'jack does, I would have a hole drilled into my skull.

The nanites work if you've manually switched it off. Nanites are distributable by Aerosol to, so you can even put them through the air conditioning. Comments like you defense of the pricing are silly.



What is better - muscle toner or muscle replacement?

Anyway, the problem is

I thought we were talking about PCs.

Anyway this boils down to there isn't a single quantifiable mechanical advantage for datajacks, and trodes have quantifiable mechanical advantages. This is a Major Issue, as it means a hacker is actually better off with the trode net rather than the datajack, but as you all say, from a flavour perspective the datajack is supposed to be better. Personally I use the Franktrollman solution that trode nets have a -2 DP in high stress situations and nanite paste has a -1, but that is obviously a house rule.

hi hi

I would think that datajacks would be more common amongst the lower class, squatters, street bums etc. for one important reason: They're harder to steal. You don't have to worry about someone ripping you off on a whim. Flashy trode headbands seem more like the kind of thing that high class socialites would be into. From an NPC point of view.

I'd go the other direction. Wageslave, executive and fashionista are all more likely to go with the jack for the fact that it can be entirely internal, wireless, and just easier to connect with and go in the morning. Low lifestyle equals low cost so I see the disadvantaged picking up a set of trodes on the cheap to get the same effect.

For my dollar, the over weight IT professional that I am, I'd go with the datajack. The idea of essence is ephemeral to the common man of the 2070s the same as it is to us. Plus the datajack is about the closest thing you're going to get to real life superpowers. I hold out my hand and will the coffer maker to start, the crowd cheers! If I was a runner, as I pretend to be every week, I'd use trodes because they wouldn't impact my six-points and they are easy to drop and replace. Downside being that I can't answer my phone naked and in the dark. Damn.

As stated it goes both ways, strong feeling either way at this point are, well, maybe best worked out somewhere else. I do like the talk of common uses of the tech, though. Always neat to see how other people picture the Sixth World.

How about this one?

Your hacker has been decking more than the last few years, and back then it was the only way to go!

And, as mentioned in the fluff of one book, BANDWIDTH! Hardline connection is still faster than wireless. It's getting closer, but Datajacks are still the rulers of the Information Superhighway.

Sure there's no rules for it, but it gives a good RPing answer.

Oh, and when you headbutt someone with the side of your head that has the Datajack, it leaves a great looking welt!

Any hackers I play that are older than 16 have datajacks and call themselves deckers. The world DOES exist beyond the scope of the table.

How many Trode nets are you going to go through in your life? Lots!

How many Datajacks are you going to go through? Not Lots!

Hence it is cheaper to buy the Datajack in the long run

(CodeBreaker doesn't have a real Datajack, but he does sometimes wear a pretend one and say he has an internal commlink. Along with some e-papers saying I have an internal commlink noone blinks twice at my increased Technomancer emissions.)

Specially if you make them only good for one week or so. This is GM call btw, since they are a dispossible item.

Actually, the nanite ones are only good for one use.

Is it really a superpower if everyone can do it and in fact does it several million times a day?

Also, being able to turn off your datajack when you go to sleep puts you in exactly the same boat as the guy who has to put his trodes on every morning (mentally make an effort to turn your datajack on/pick up your trodes).

Datajacks are a thing of the past. If you want to be trendy and hang with the cool people you need to be wearing cool looking trodes.

If you were decking before 2.0 you better have a damn good reason why you don't have a datajack.

Wires only reach so far and can get tangled. Was always funny when the girls in my high school gym classes got their earings/necklaces/bracelets caught on shit.

Datajack having memory is not a benefit. My pants have unlimited memory as does my underwear. What do I care about storage memory?

Todes can't be put on with double-sided tape or skin friendly glue? If I'm going into a potential combat situation as a trode user I think I'd use some glue to put it on. If it works for fashion models why can't it work for me?

Finally, if a datajack or a skinlink can send signals to your brain from parts of your body that aren't next to your brain why do your trodes have to go there too? Is there a rule I've missed that says trodes have to go on your head? (honest question, I'm at work right now) Couldn't I put them into my biomonitor underwear?