OK, with Skinlink, nano-paste trodes, and even Wireless Cranial Commlinks....why would one ever need a Datajack? I really do not think there is anything unique to a Data Jack anymore, when
in the past, it was the only way to interface with your Deck or a computer terminal.

You can't jam a datajack.
You can't wash a datajack off with a warm rain.
You can't make a datajack stop working just by skinning a person (that was a fun game).
You can always rip the cord out of the datajack to cut the connection.
You can always plug the cord right back.
Placed on the wrist, you eliminate the wireless link to your handgun and if you get disarmed, the cord means your gun can't go very far.
Datajacks pass easily through airport security.
You can plug one datajack directly into another for the ultimate private conference.

Okay, your turn!

I dunno, man. If you're expecting heavy combat, you can put a trode net in a helmet; if not, you can put it in a hat or a wig. Mages and adepts aren't really missing out if they skip the essence lost for the exterior version.

EDIT: Whoa, interesting response.

Can you jam a trode net? I don't know.
I agree, nano-paste trodes are interesting but I don't trust gel application.
If you can skin a person, you can probably scoop out or at least jam/break a datajack... although now I want to make a Flaying spell...
Legit, but I suspect trode nets have an off/reset switch.
HANDy idea, but a trode net, skinlink and lanyard can accomplish the same thing.
Trodes are availability "-" so they'll pass anywhere.
I guess two guys with trode nets and skinlinks could hold hands and confer that way, but that's a little fruity.

So even though it looks like I'm say "datajacks are worthless," I guess what I mean is "if you're willing to put a considerable amount of effort into implementing and maintaining your trode net hookup, it can accomplish the same thing as a datajack, most of the time."

Honestly from the looks of it (And from some stuff in Unwired) it seems like Datajacks have fallen out of fashion. Granted, they have there benefits, like those AH pointed out, plus you can directly access Datachips with them and they have there own memory but there seems to be many less invasive methods. The memory storage means that you have an implanted hard-drive that with some help from your Hacker can basically be turned into a Data Vault. Other than that I really cannot see any reason not to go with a Trode Net and a Skinlink.

Umm, numbers of reasons for datajacks:

The biggest one being: So you can hard-connect stuff to your headware commlink. Cuz, you know, you can't skinlink it. Cuz it's under your skin. Or not connected. And trodes don't connect to your commlink, they connect to your brain.

1. Hook up without wireless to something you're not holding on your skin. Like, say, a smart weapon mount. Or, say, something in your pocket.
2. Hook up to somebody else's stuff, that may not have a skinlink. Or, even, a wireless connection. Like, for instance, the power meter on a building that's greater than 7 years old.
3. You can put data chips in them without paying 50 bucks for a skinlink on a between 1 and 30 dollar piece of equipment.
4. Datajacks on the end of myomeric cables let you access hardened (i.e., non-wireless) terminals without being in the obvious spot right in front of it.

So you want to have a trodenet on... all the time? While under fire? One glancing shot at your helmet and BAM... dumpshock. All that contact gel messes up your cool hairstyle. Also you look like an idiot. (-dice for social interaction for the munchkins).

Also it is more secure and feels better. (No rules for that, but sometimes mentioned) EDIT: The Datajack of course, sorry

Agreed. I never said it's not awkward, although you can throw it on under a bitchin' wig.

Besides, if you're going to all this trouble, chances are you're Awakened, so you've got things to do even if you leave the electronics at home.

My troll mage does. Not a lot of people willing to tell him it looks silly, even if it does.



You just use the sports style, embedded in a headband. He'd love to ditch the headband, but it in no way is going to induce him to go under the knife and lose a point of magic to boot.

Njech... i forgot that the trodenets run on bullshittonium... Sportheadbands... having micromillimeter access to your unwired brain... sigh.

Well, my final word is: You young people with your "essence" and whining. When i was your age, we magicians were FULL of metal. dozens of kilos. Why? Because we were MAN enough to be awesomely cybered and still have the juice to explode everything coming our way. AND WE DIDN't whine about drain or such. I resisted drain with my sheer manliness (my balls - pshhhh!).

Serious though. I think most of my mages had around one essence point lost to augmentations. Cybereyes/ears, Datajack. maybe a bit bioware (Mnemonic enhancer or other gray matter stuff) if you had money. Most of my shamans on the other side... they wouldn't touch a trodenet either.

If you have a cyberlimb it doesn't take Essence. My Chaos Mage has a cyberhand with all sorts of goodies built in

One more reason for datajack: Allows use of Knowsofts and Linguasofts without having to have a sim module.

Except that in the 2070s all the cool styles of both clothing and hair include trodes as a standard accessory. Trying to limit trode use by style-policing based on current RL standards is not particularly appropriate to the genre.

Nanotrode paste can be jammed because it's got a signal instead of a plug or skinlink. In fact it has a signal of around 0, making it very easy to jam. Note you are jamming the trode connection to your commlink, not to between the paste and your brain.

A trode net (which tend to come as wrings or as option on helmets) could be cabled or skinlinked making that no more an issue then if you had a datajack. It's removable, and depending on what you have it installed in you may or may not get odd looks for having it on.

For awakened or emerged characters, a trode setup of some kind is perfect, but if your a standard hacker/rigger type, then you don't mind a little essence loss... and a Datajack offers some good uses.

First, According to my reading of the SR4 BBB +Unwired +Augmentation, Datajacks and Commlinks are the two standard ways of getting an implanted DNI for the purposes of controlling a computer. All other cyberware that include DNI (which is most) only tie this connection into the implant's controls, so if you have a cyber arm, but no datajack or implanted commlink, then you still don't have DNI control over your commlink, meaning you can't use Simsense or VR, or even just send text messages mentaly.
Between the implanted commlink and the datajack, the Datajack is more flexible, cheaper, and uses less essence.

An implanted Commlink connects to the rest of your PAN through wifi. This can be jammed. A Datajack allows either a wired of Skinlinked option. These can't be jammed, and if you shut down all your wifi connections, makes you much harder to hack. (That last one is important for heavily wired street samurai.)
It also side steps all of the trouble when it comes time to upgrade a commlink. Unless you spent 5 bp on Resitricted Gear at character creation, you're starting with a Response 5 Commlink at best. You likely also didn't fill your commlink with all the possible upgrades and add-ons presented in Arsenal and Unwired. Simmsense accelerators, Response Enhancers, Optimizations, etc. Unless you want someone cutting your head open every time you get a computer upgrade, you likely don't want your link implanted. Note that I think cyberware is more resistent to EMP then external commlinks, but I don't remember the rules offhand.

Second, I could have sworn there were some intersting hacker gear options that required a DNI to be implanted to be of any use... but looking over Control Rig Nanites, Simmsense boosters, and similar descriptions, I don't notice any requiring an implanted form of Commlink or Datajack, so I guess they all work with Trodes too.

Lastly, there is the hack/jamming/ease dropping proof cable for when you want your conversation to be extremely private... assuming the person you are talking with also has a datajack... although it is possilbe to mimic this setup using trodes, skin link, and cable plugged into a skinlinked commlink.

The biggest arguments i can make are for security, both the immunity to jamming/intercept.

Stepping outside the written text for a moment I would allow a +1 to response to characters directly wired into fiber cables vs wireless.

The biggest reason though?

Nothing screams newb like not having the piece of gear that was all but standard until just a few years ago

Which probably explains why Trolls have a lower cap on Charisma. It's not that they're inherently unlikeable. it's just that nobody ever dares tell them when they're dressing badly, breath smells, etc. Poor trolls. Never getting invited to parties and never knowing why.

No. Charisma modifiers are directly related to penis-size. Orks are disproportionately small, trolls are even more slighted, and elven men have a third leg...

I'm not going to ask what you think the Charisma caps on female orks and trolls represent.

The fact that they obviously have very small penises...?

It's a well-known fact that any differences between males and females are ignored in (most) roleplaying games. Females get to have strength just as high as males, and they suffer equally for their metatypes genitalia. Them's the breaks.

My opinion? You shouldn't be able to go Hot using 'trodes. They have to push signals through the skull, which tends to disrupt them enough that attempting to hit Hot Sim levels just fries your brain without delivering the pinpoint neural activation peaks that are necessary to get the benefits.

Not a bad angle, but it does really cut into the BTL use if you have to have a datajack to do it. Since hot-VR isn't really all that needed anymore, that could mean that in the 2070s, those that still have and use datajacks might suffer a stigma...

I could see that, with datajacks basically becoming the equivalent of track marks today, only they show who is a BTL junkie as opposed to a heroin user.

Yeah, any real chiphead is already rocking the datajack, as are most people. Really, the fluff mentions that some cyberware (datajack, implanted commlink, I think low-rating cybereyes) is so easy and common that you can get it installed on your lunch break. For the 99% of people who aren't Awakened, Emerged, dracomorphs, sapient critters or shapechangers, there's really no reason NOT to get a datajack.

And Heath... interesting idea. I'll keep it in mind.

I can totally see a technomancer buying a fake datajack and gecko-gripping it onto his skin someplace to help blend into the crowd.

Yeah, thats why my Sasha(combat face) has two alphaware datajacks.

I have also thought about this rule quite a bit. Incidentally, SR3 did have this rule for its 'Trode Net.

THIS. QFT.

I often forget how recently the crash 2.0 happened. On the other hand, a lot of the surviving runners probably used the confusion to do some big scores and retire.

So everyone hacking you can directly hack any of your implants, ignoring chaining and slaving.

I need one just to prove you wrong.

Huh?

Only 2? Piker... I am currently running with 3 Beta Jacks and a Beta Lock as well...

For the 80s cyberpunk look. It's the same reason your Deck looks like an 80s music synthesizer instead of a Blackberry.

Maybe it used to, Grandpa, but mine's the size of a pack of smokes. Get with the times. Heh... he still calls it a Deck...

The crash was ten years ago. If you were under a certain age (16 - 18, say) you didn't have a jack, since it mentions somewhere that getting cyberware is a bad idea while you're still growing. So, if you are under 27 - 28, there's honestly no reason to have one as a starting runner (I like starting characters as just getting in to running, so they have plenty of room to grow)

"Speak fo' yo'self chummer. Ma' ol'skool lookin' Deck will smoke your lil piece of trash lik'it waz top grade organic weed. Course it has 20 times 'da processing power. An' yea, Iz got 'da hook up fo'da pure organic stuff."

You have fun with that, Gramps. And while you're plugging in and booting up, I'll be flying. You old guys, you think power has something to do with it. Nah, it's all about speed. So you're making your way from node to node, and I'm in all of them at once. On this side I'm hacking Gridguide to make sure you never get nowhere on time again, while over here I'm uploading those pictures of your old lady I grabbed off of the sec cams to S. Sea.

Now I got much respect for you old school deckers, but you gotta learn. Things have changed. You plug into the Matrix. I'm a part of it.

"Who said I was'n wit'da times boy? Ya' got 'da smaller down, ya' jus fo'got 'dat smalla partz let ya' squeeze mo' power in'da same space. Mo' processor, mo' radio, microwave, laser, satcom, direction antennaz, an' yea even da' ol'skool plugz. Neva know wha', 'cha might be deal'n wit' ol' stuff on a run an' no connection. Mah' deck make yo' commlink look like 'da decks from twen'yearz go when ya' compare em. Hell, mah' Fetch modulez got mo' power 'dan yo' deck. But'ah like ya' so if'n you wan', 'ah build ya' ah propa one. Ah' even make it small since you kidz like small ones. *Mumble* never heard someone brag'bout hav'n ah small one before */mumble*."

Because of this, of course. http://www.hulu.com/exosquad

Everyone knows the best way to control power armor, exoskeletons, and mecha is through your datajack.

Besides, it's stylin.

hi hi

Datajacks are passé. I mean, yeah, there was a time when trodes were ungainly monstrosities, but those days are over. I'm sure there were people who thought that magnetic data storage would be the standard forever too.

I'm really trying to think of something a datajack can do that trodes can't also do, but I'm coming up blank. Both are susceptible to called shots, both can have devices plugged into them directly, both can be rendered unusable if captured.

Trodes can not provide a DNI between any of your cyberware.

I can only think of one example... and I don't even know if it's valid.

My character has cyber eyes, ears, datajack

His Hat has a commlink and button cameras in the front and the back.

via wireless to his hat, he can set the hat on a table or rack, or on his dresser... and view the cameras in AR, as well as answer calls without grabbing his commlink when being woken up

Granted, that's all using the idea that a datajack has wireless in addition to the classic functions.

Ok here's the end assesment in my book, if your GM's works in a world where a electromagnetic read and write operation to your brain through your skull is comparably efficient to a fiber to neural interface go for it. Personally subscribe to the theory that anythign at rode net can do a datajack can do better and give penalties and bonuses accordingly.

I often think that not enough Shadowrunners wear hats.

hi hi

Emphasis mine.

Yes i'm aware of what the book says, lets try it this way. Is our wifi connection as fast as a Cat5/Cat6 connection or god forbid fiber? Even though the books say they do, they really really shouldn't. They didn't in previous editions, and they shouldn't now.

I get where you're coming from, but you should be clear that such penalties for trodes over a datajack are a house rule. Nothing in the RAW notes any penalty or difference between them.

As much as you want to apply physics and the resistance properties of said skull, bear in mind this is a game where they wanted the Matrix to be usable by everyone (even mages without implants).

There is no question that it makes some sense to enforce a difference based on the fluff inferiority of trodes, but considering cost wise, a datajack isn't very expensive and only .1 essence, I couldn't see any penalty greater than an occasional and circumstantial -1 DP to certain situations (and it might be better argued never a DP but a minor Threshold Modifer to simulate the increased lag resistance).

Regardless of the method, it should be very minor.

That being said, as a house rule (really just me being a dirty GM), I have trodes burn out on a critical glitch test in which they were used. Being they're such a relatively flimsy and somewhat disposable item, I figure they would be the first to suffer hardware failure. At only 50Y, the players that rely on them have taken to carrying a spare set or backup, but they don't trust the damn things (and once in months has it ever come up in that I had someone's trodes break under the stress).

At the end I hope this doesn't appear as a disagreement to your justification, just a caution to the unspecified modifiers you seem willing to apply. If by fluff they're sub-par, then by fluff and roleplaying should they factor, not by constant or definitive penalities - IMO anyway.

hi hi

I think trodes burning out on a critical glitch is a great idea, it is quite the elegant solution. It makes them slightly less reliable then datajacks, but keeps with the wireless theme and lets the team stay together even when matrix stuff is happening.

Even if a runner didn't bring an extra set of trodes along, they wouldn't be that hard to acquire from any wireless store, and it gives players and GMs alike the opportunity to implement the "trodes take a few minutes to configure to your brain," bit.

I understand what you're going for here, but you're wrong.

If I'm connected to a 10/100 network, my maximum speed is 100 mbs. 802.11n wireless supports up to 300 mbs. So it doesn't matter if I am connecting via wireless or cat 6, my speed is the same. Once the transfer mediums reach the same speed (or higher) as the network processing speed, it becomes null which transfer media has faster capabilities.

Since SR is based in fiction, and the fiction states that trodes can connect at the same speed as a datajack, then I assume that trodes have reached the point where they can transfer data fast enough to hit the limit placed by whatever is the actual limiting factor. That doesn't mean they have the same higher end speed, just that they are fast enough that something else is limiting their speed (I have no clue what). This same something else is what limits the speed of transmission through a datajack. So for practical purposes, they function at the same speed.

I'd forgotten about .11n having said that 300mbs is still crushed by gig Ethernet or other physical transmission mediums and frankly common knowledge of electrical engineering doesn't predict a change in that equation. If it were just a simple matter of laying a set of 50 nuyen trodes across someones head why whouldn't they make full rooms able to pull people into VR against their will and read their minds or slam them with Black ice. (hmmm *makes a note in evil gm book of dirty tricks*) or bulletts or nano-sprays that do the same. Why are technomancers a big deal when in reality everyone should be direct brain interface with the network without any additional hardware?

Additionally there already is a mechanic for signal lag and bandwidth in response time and action phases respectively.

FInally on making the matrix more accessable, i could fill a whole seperate thread with the pluses and minuses to this approach, but suffice to say I don't feel like it's a good idea to make trodes the equal of datajacks, I believe evolution, technical and otherwise, rewards specialization and if their letting everyone hack equally well when are non magic users getting spells and weapons foci to compensate, after all if everyone is allowed to engage in the matrix parts of shadowrun surely people should just as easily be able to cast magic and astrally quest amirite?

If everyone isn't allowed to engage, then the Matrix and it's expansive definition and effects on the populace in mass would be negligible. It would be like what computers were before the world wide web. Allowing everyone into the matrix doesn't nullify any natural specialization or areas of increased effectiveness, in fact it highlights those with skills and hardware versus just those with hardware.

As for the analogy of magic versus the matrix alternate realities, it doesn't cost build points in qualities, skills, and spells to access the matrix. The correlation you make isn't comparable. Technomancers while having the mystical access pay only 5 BP in the quality versus the 15 BP of a mage. There is a difference specifically because TM's aren't doing anything in general the average joe can't already do.

It's your game, by all means limit the trodes if it makes you sleep better. To me it's toying with a basic principle of accessibility as in a game of criminals looking for an edge, you're simply forcing everyone to have a datajack. Why not just remove trodes and be done with it altogether?

I personally like the trodes and the functionality they bring. Any differences are purely fluff and roleplaying concepts without the need to directly and mechanically penalize those who can't or won't purchase cyberware. Not everyone wants metal in their body, and even though many people (especially the younger) think it's cool, there are still plenty of people who would like to do their jobs without invasive surgery.

Perhaps I should rephrase or clarify, the networking tech in me is annoyed by the concept of a airgap/skullgap system working as well as direct connection. The setting purist additionally doesn't think that a disposable trodenet should do the job as well as a person of integrated cyberware that costs a piece, however tiny, of your soul. The mechanical tweaker feels the same way. Thatdoesn't mean I want other "classes" to stop using the matrix, but I also want those who have paid their dues and chosen to specialize to do it better if in no other fact then perhaps trode nets having an intiative pass penalty or the like. The magic example is poor, 15 BP's isn't much in the scheme of things it's the expandature of points on a magic rating and limiting your cyberware consumption in my experience that the costs to being a magic user comes along. So here we have a piece of cyberware that by the written text is rather pointless, in my opinion that's an over site of the sytem.

The overall cost of a datajack is minuscule, thus the benefit should be as well. I'd agree if you were actually paying something for it, but basically your way makes it a really cheap +1 to dice pools. And the price doesn't reflect that. The advantages of a datajack come in the form of concealability and the fact that it's hard to take it from you. The price difference reflects this. Mechanically, if you want datajacks to give you a +1 to VR dice pools, you need to make them cost much more.