I think it's shortsighted to think that shadowrunners aren't known to everyone because it actually does help manipulate society to think that there are these mercenary covert (clandestine, too, usually) operators that need to be stopped at all costs, but in actuality are used by everyone.

I also think that the idea of a massive media control conspiracy is fallacious for no other reason than how one you get further and further from the top level of a Big Ten corp, and further you live from an arcology or totally bottled-up enclave the more likely that people are going to know about this stuff for no other reason than manipulation is a two-way street. For every AAA corp trying to brainwash its citizens, the other 9 are trying to do the same for their own purposes, and this gets more overt and widespread as it becomes easier further down the organization chart--and in the process, other sources also add their voices and sooner or later real information gets out sooner or later and some people learn things. Even Red China (or even better, the Evil Empire itself) can't keep everyone off the parts of the Internet that it doesn't want them to see, or other sources of information getting out--especially with other countries (namely, ours) subverting them with things like Voice of America and free Anonymizers.

The funny thing about politics is that people are willing to destroy themselves a little just to go after their internal enemies, let alone their foreign enemies (case in point, the "outing" of a CIA NOC for no legitimate reason other than political). People will always out secrets, gossip and random information to the media--especially an "unfriendly" media--for an infinite number of reasons (i.e., A U.S. Senator put it best when commenting on the passing of Katharine Graham and her paper, the Washington Post, he said something to the effect of, "The Select Committee on Intelligence meets in a bugproof room with [x] inch thick steel doors to hear testimony from the intelligence community, but inevitably the testimony we would hear in there would be the same thing I read on the cover of the Washington Post that morning.").

When you have a multi-polar world like the one in Shadowrun there are too many major social issues that just aren't going to stay a secret for long. Remember, the population at-large learned about the truth in Chicago after the Bug City download on Shadowland was publicized, it stands to reason that for many news outlets, it wasn't out of magnanimity or a commitment to the public trust; it was to make the UCAS and Ares look really, really bad.

And occassionally there are going to be ex-runners who for one reason or another go legit (the sniper in Odom's horrendous novel), or go public (even if they are in hiding) for various reasons. I can't believe that there isn't a single runner who hasn't done the equivalent of publishing a book like Bob Baer (who by all understanding is the real deal, and is really "ex") did for whatever reason from magnanimity to settling scores to making cash. OF course, there are also a thousand wannabes and never-weres for every real runner anyway, and even moreso for a SR eqv. to Baer.

There are probably hundreds or thousands of people who think they are runners in Seattle, and the one thing I liked in TT was that it confirmed what I suspected: There are probably between 100-200 "real" runners in Seattle, something I can believe from being on Shadowland for the better part of a decade now. For all of the thousands of people who used it, and dozens if not hundreds of runners over the years there have probably been a few dozen "real" runners and, oh, about twenty PCs who are of the level that would qualify them as Prime Runners. But everyone who wasn't thought they were (incl. all of mine) at least shadowrunners unless they knew better for other reasons (e.g., they were gangsters, mercs, etc.). And I don't doubt some of them would go public in one way or another just because they could.

Not to mention Law and Order.

Shadowrunners are basically nothing but a specific 'branch' of professional criminals.

Now, I can't speak for other places, but here in Stockholm the established professional criminals aren't invisible no-bodies no one knows exist. Granted, joe public doesn't recognize them or know who they are unless they screwed up big time and made the news. But the bouncers of most popular clubs recognize them, as do the club owners. They have to. Tjey and their bodyguards aren't stripsearched, aren't denied entry to a club, and are even welcomed and treated well. Why? Because they have Money. Because they have Power. Because they might (and occassionally do) retaliate if they are denied. You don't mess with those people, and in order to not mess with them, you have to know who they are. Alot of them are also known to the police, of course, as suspects and by rep and through undercover ops; but they may not have any evidence to nail them, or they are waiting for more juicy stuff before they do. I don't imagine this is any different in any other bigger city.

Now, I'm not saying that every criminal in stockholm is recognized and known by reputation in every bar, but the bigger ones are, and the 'wanna-bees' that hang around them. This includes organized crime, gangs, drugdealers, and their people. Not quite shadowrunners, I know, but in some cases the two worlds overlap.

In 2060, alot of runners will have connections with said criminals, and some will even be both. The 'in-crowd' will know runners on sight or by rep, and alot of people will take care not to step on their toes. If you go back to the early days of the game, most jobs came by mr.johnson sweeping through the local 'runner-bar' looking for talent. Maybe a bit oversimplified, and not the best idea of the developers, but it does fit into the existing criminal world. Want something done? Talk to people you know, who might know people, and then you can go drop some names to those people and be directed to the right table at the club.

A runner without a rep - or any criminal without a rep - will not get many jobs at all. If you have no info on Joe Runner, he may be a nobody who couldn't get the job done in a million years; he could be a spy from a rival company; he could be any number of nasty surprises for you if you hire him. Therefore, you hire people you are satisfied will get the job done. You may not know them personally, but someone you know has to vouch for them, and that means someone has to know them, and know what they did. Your brag sheet may not include all the details of your runs ad employers, but those in the know will be able to piece together such information some of the time. It might even be in LoneStar's files. But without evidence to back it up, it means nothing - except reputation. Granted, this is a fine balance between being known well enough and being too well known. And to be known for the right things.

The general public today knows there are criminals and syndicates and gangs and spies. They don't, however, know who these people are (with some exceptions; and I can bet that one or two 'alledged' shadowrunners would be known to the public as well), or exactly what they do and for whom. Or how it all fits together. For this, they have movies and books and tv-series and documentaries and comicbooks and so on and so forth. I see no reason whatsoever to assume shadowrunners are much different. Alot of people will probably blow it off as rumors and stories - especially because of media-hypes of 'robin hood' type runners fighting 'the evil corps' and yadiya and ladida.

The no-ID secret unknown people you talk about DV8 are the megacorp black ops squads - those are the people without reps, that few know about and even fewer can pick out in a crowd. Those are the 'real' shadowrunners, if you will. No corp would trust their most sensitive operations to 'street-scum' mercenaries - those are used when the need for deniability outweighs the need for secrecy and success, and they don't want to risk more capital than necessary. It's all cost-calculations and economics.

Here's an interesting run idea...

Lion Videos, subsidary of Aztechnology, has recent started their "documentary" "Shadowrunner Joe has a Go" on a shadowrunner by the name of Joe (hence the name of the documentary) who's hired by Ares (an Aztech competitor) to blow up a puppy farm that's been threatening Ares' capital. Your team is hired by Ares to take Joe, the director and the producer out of the picture and destroy the script, thereby saving face for Ares Macrotechnology.

I'm gonna sort 'o take this off topic because I think this bares on an other topic I was thinking of starting. How many real runners are there? Some one here said the TT source book gave a number between 100- 200 in Seattle. Man thats a lot of runners period, let alone in Seattle. I figure that there might bee 100- 200 in north america. really 100-200 in Seattle? Employed often enought that they are making some sort of living? Enough so that it is easier than getting a 9 to 5 job?

Seattle is a large city. There are larger. How many are there in Atlanta? New York? London? Tokyo? Jeez! We're up to our eye balls in runners. There must be something like a open state of war between all the corps. Frag the CC. They wouldn't have time to do anything to stop anyone. What are that stats for that? A run happens every 15 minutes?

First you need to define what makes a Shadowrunner a shadowrunner and not just a ordinary criminal, or a merc, or what ever. Then you can get to a truer number of just how many SR there are and where.

How does this relate to this topic? Well... fewer sr's, fewer that can go public. Undoubtedly there have been some ala mafia types. someone gets pinched. Gives up some other folks and writes a book about it. You don't see a sub-culture devoted to it.

Thanos

Seattle is clearly identified as one of the more "happening" places in terms of Shadowrunning, what with it being the West-coast holdout of the UCAS, right next to a bunch of other nations, the site of major corporate investment, etc...
I'd say that the number of runners in Seattle is probably higher than average. Also, consider that those two hundred runners probably only comprise 40 or less running teams, with a few freelancers on the side. That's a fair number, but in an active metropolis that number can be used up pretty quickly.

~J

Whether the number is ridiculous or not also hinges a lot on the average duration of a shadowrun.

In different campaigns they might take a few hours, or a week, or six months. Personally I would love to play and to have run more of the latter, but really it has been mostly the former.

Not to mention there are plenty of criminals who don't warrant the title "shadowrunner" which make up the "shadow world" of Seattle.

-Siege