And THAT was an Coinkydink? x.x

some of them are, yes. But some of them also retain their humanity. And that's where life gets interesting for the poor bastards.

Just in case you haven't seen this one yet, here's how Twilight SHOULD have ended:

[img]http://liveforfilms.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/twilightblade.jpg[/img]

hmm....damn forum won't let me post inline images. ah well - y'all can just copy/paste the damn link for yourselves.

4 weeks, sped grown.

Also, for essence, don't forget to eat your Watcher Spirits.

Link is broken

This doesn"t work, you need a physical sentient subject. Zoocanthropes, naga, pixies and other meta-sapient would qualify, but not spirits as they are astral creatures, not physical, even when manifesting.

Heh, that sure would have made it more interesting.

For those who don't feel like using copy + paste

Epic.


This is what I get for not reading something completely before posting..

Ok, stupid quest, can a vampire get cosmetic surgery? or would they simply regen any procedure done to them?

edit, multipost

It's possible for the Infected (including vampires) to have cyberware or bioware implants. But it's extremely difficult and expensive. Any cosmetic surgery would have to be done using specially cultivated tissue. Delta grade all the way.

it would be easier to use nanopaste disguises and the occasional illusion spell.

would it get regenerated, if the procedure was done before they got changed?

I would say no. and if done with delta grade bio and cyberware implants, it wouldn't regenerate even after they were infected.

cyber you had in there gets kicked out by regeneration.
regeneration basically tells your body how it has to look and makes it so.
why would you say that this does not count for plastic chirurgy?

From the book: Any creature with regeneration must get deltaware grade implants because of the difficulty that their bodies cause, and any cosmetic surgery only lasts a few days as their body repairs the modifications made to it.

I'd be surprised to think it would last more then a few minutes, but ya, that's what I was thinking, I was just wondering if because it has no 'combat' effect it was somehow exempt.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised about that too consider that a creature with regeneration can get rid of any wound up to death within a few seconds. I'd imagine the fact that they are actually implanting stuff and/or crating scars might have something to do with it. That or it is just one of those 'handwave to make it an option for a short term disguise' type of things.

Okay, remember the bit I said earlier about reading somewhere about some vampire who drank blood from blood banks rather than drinking from unwilling victims because he was a decent "human being"? Well, I found it.

From Threats (FASA, 1996), pg 32:

>>>>>([writer of the article being discussed] is no better than the bigot he started off denouncing. I knew a vampire named Victor DeLann; ran a bar called The Count's here in San Francisco. He bought his blood from hospitals, or drank small amounts from people who wanted to see how it felt. Victor wouldn't hurt a fly. But some fool watched one too many reruns of Kill the Dead, then broke into Victor's apartment just after dawn and staked him while he was sleeping. Some people just can't coexist with anyone different.)<<<<<
--Darwin (07:20:49/05-25-57)

This tidbit makes it sound like Victor could have survived solely on blood and wasn't a monster. Did the rules for vampires' essence drain and dietary requirements change from 2nd edition to 4th edition? I know that banshees changed: back in SR2, banshees drained essence directly from someone's fear when they used their fear/paralyzing howl on their victim, and I don't remember a thing about banshees actually drinking blood back then. Why the changes, I wonder?

EDIT: SR2, pg 221:
"Unlike the vampire, [a banshee] appears to survive completely on Essence derived from its terrified victims."

Also noticed vampires used to have a severe sunlight allergy in SR2. So did the daywalker retrovirus (or whatever it was called) that was being worked on in the SR novel The Terminus Experiment actually work?

I'm guessing that a Vampire's diet changed at some point from just blood to blood and essence. There is no way you could get essence from blood, because donating blood (and bleeding) don't cost you essence, so there is no essence in the blood to drain away.

As for the severe allergy? I don't know, that could just be a case of the mechanics changing enough that the old severe is the new moderate (Not mild like I think I posted earlier). No idea about the daywalker retrovirus, could be. Nosferatu still have severe allergy, so they have to stay inside during the day.

Or use an "Alleviate Allergy" spell.

[quote name='Karoline' date='Oct 7 2009, 04:28 AM' post='853065']
I'm guessing that a Vampire's diet changed at some point from just blood to blood and essence. There is no way you could get essence from blood, because donating blood (and bleeding) don't cost you essence, so there is no essence in the blood to drain away.
[\quote]
The blood would have to have some essence of its own, as you can assense it, and it isn't dead. SR seems pretty clear that no essence = dead.

You can assense a pool of blood? Since when? I've never heard of that.

Also, even if it does have essence (Which seems odd), doesn't mean it qualifies for vampire draining.

Plants have essence (I think) but a vampire can't feed on his rose garden.

Personally I figure that the poster of the Shadowtalk simply didn't understand what his vampire friend was "really" doing to those people who wanted to see what it felt like to be sipped from. The blood from the bank would satify his requirement to drink blood, and the "willing victims" handled his requirement to dine upon the souls of people.

As far as I remember, vamps have always had the requirement to do both.

Hehe, that would make alot of sense. It isn't like they can go "Hey man, my essence just went down a point, what is that all about?"

Aye, and it is also possible that the vamp in question might not have really understood what he was doing either, just that "fresh" blood tasted better than the stale crap from the banks and that every once in a while he got cravings for the good stuff.

I think, my memory is a little fuzzy on whether or not the soul sucking undead (Yes, yes I know that they aren't "really" undead.) are reborn with an understanding of how and why their feeding powers works.

It should be noted that the delta-grade implants only matter post-Infection. Pre-Infection implants should not be affected by the Infected Implant rules, as they were gained before the character had to play under those rules.

Unless my memory is failing me, I seem to recall that pre-vamp implants were subject to the entire "rejection" process as well.

no, they don't innately know the details of their powers and limitations. a lot of them suffer from psychosomatic symptoms if they see a holy symbol or get hit by garlic soaked silver bullets. If the only thing you have to go on regarding your condition is the Blade movies, then that's what you'd tend to believe.

Now, later on they might figure it out and stop acting like a sparkly vampire from Twilight....but until then they're going to be pretty messed up.

There is nothing explicitly stated either way about that in RC. It just says... I figure it means that if they have lower grade implants they'll still stay in, but the trouble of regeneration can only be circumvented by the much higher level of medical practice required when implanting deltaware systems.

Of course you could also easily interpreted it as anything that isn't deltaware grade is considered foreign and so 'healed' from the body.

I seem to recall reading something recently that did explicitly state it, might have been in Running Wild (for which I don't have the PDF handy here to check at the moment).

Also I'm pretty sure that is the way it has always been through the editions, suppose I could be wrong though...

To the OP, the answer would most probably be, "I would let a player role-play an infected character if they knew how to role-play an infected character."

Ok, found it (emphasis mine):

Hmm, but that is distinctly different from the statement in RC that they can have bio/cyberware so long as it is delta grade. I suppose you can put them together and say it will reject any cyberware that isn't delta grade... it doesn't mention bioware though... odd.

Since Running Wild is a newer release, I'd think any rules presented in that conflict with previously established rules (i.e. RC) would trump the older rules.

From what I understand, Catalyst will be republishing the core rule books (possibly in full color, I hear?) as part of the 20th Anniversary bash. I would have to wonder if they would update RC's rules to mesh with those in Running Wild?

Well that bit I quoted was from the fluff section, not the hard rules - so deltaware may still be fine by RAW, but the fluff illustrates the intent that preimplanted (non-delta-)cyberware does indeed get ejected from the host after infection.

Fluff or not, I would NOT want to be in the room when a new vampire expels all non-deltaware cyber from their body. Ick.

That's what I get for not having the most current rulebook. Also, as we've demonstrated many times over, crunch > fluff. Fluff is flavoring for the crunch, but you generally don't eat the herbs for the meat.

Also, the part in Runner's Companion is an optional rule, so maybe an optional rule bypasses a rule suggested from a flavor-text area.

What about geneware? Is that rewritten and the essence loss restored, too?

Yeah, HMHVV completely overwrites all geneware.

I'm sure that this has been answered somewhere else, but I don't remember. If you've got a street sam with 0.5 essence and he gets infected all his cyber (which wasn't delta grade) gets expunged. Is he now back to the base 6.0 essence, or is he left with his measly half point and doomed to live the remainder of his life on the edge of starvation and with no powers to speak of?

Depends on the infection he gets.
If he simply loses 1 point as a GHOUL? he is dead, with most of his cyber still in there.
If he gets DRAINED TO DEATH by a VAMPIRE? All of it gets kicked out, and he rises 48 hours later as a new vampire with 0 or 1 essence and he MUST feed withint some minutes/hours or simply die and STAY DEAD this time.

I had *one* player opt to make a vampire player character for my game. much less than expected and with only 400 BP, she had to sacrifice a LOT of goodies to play an infected. So we'll see how this goes.

i like my cyber/bio-toys too much to play something like that

But when he does feed, is he subject to a maximum essence of (2 times normal essence) 1.0? or 12?

I believe he would jump back up to 6 essence max. Just like a normal human has been drained of all their essence, and so is technically at 0 when they die and are reborn as vampires. I see no reason why the essence lost to cyberware before being turned would be any more permanent than the essence lost to essence drain before being turned.

He
aint
human
anymore.
Human limits don't apply to the new vampire.
He is exactly like any other Vampire, statswise.
Only slightly different in background story ^^

Here's a stupid question: If a vampire didn't know any better and tried to feed on a cyberzombie, would he just be unable to feed, or would his own essence get sucked out by the essence vacuum of the CZ?

There are no stupid questions, but there sure are many curious idiots ^^
Essence does not work like that.
He simply can't feed on the zombie. Better wuestion would be how the vampire is affected by the zombies background count.

Essence loss can't be reversed (except by a very expesive Genetherapy,described in Bodytech,I think ? )
So the Sam is a 0,5 Essence Vampire without any 'ware
(and Stahlseele ist right.He ain't Human anymore,but that doesn't matter ,his essence is still gone

with a human Dance
Medicineman