I'm just curious - has anyone actually run a campaign (standard 400 pt or otherwise) that allowed for ghoul, vampire or other infected characters/concepts? If so, how did they stack up with the other players in your group?

I'm considering allowing a ghoul player character into my up and coming SR4 game and thought I'd ask the experts before I give the nod to my player(s). feedback welcome! positive, negative, or whatever you gots to say on the topic I wanna hear it.

I would not mix infected with any other kind of character.
Except maybe other stuff from RC. Things that can't get infected.
Or you run a campaign with all infected characters.
Else, basically every time a ghoul shakes hands with another guy,
congratulations, you have another bleached face.

hi there

we havent had any undead, no infected but i think a word of caution (baring your game style) is of societies views of ghouls.... ive played a 10ft tall full conversion troll and just my appearance it was very difficult to get around in town(read:near impossible) it would be easer for a ghoul but still.... oh also keep in mind his eating habits and the people you would need to associate with for the meats mmmm brains anyway i suppose to make it easyer but reduce the neg ramifications you could always roll food requirements into the cost of lifestyle

any way i think with a good back story and thoughtfull prep with the hay if you cause raiots from eating too much soilent green you may have to mak a back up charicter clause id say go for it

it's not THAT easy to pass on the infection. blood to blood transfer, sexual contact (ewwww!) and/or saliva can pass on the disease. But contact doesn't automatically ensure infection. A simple handshake alone won't do it.

Isn't there some quality that infected can take (A negative quality in fact) that makes it so that they can't transfer the virus? Something like 'infertile infected.' I believe all second generation infected have this automatically (ie children of actual infected). This could prevent the 'oh snap, ghoul army' syndrome that accompanies the high contagious rate of infected.

Diet is also important to keep in mind. You likely don't want to just handwave the fact that ghouls need a quarter their body weight in raw meat a week, and vampires need that much blood. You don't need to go into gory detail either, but it shouldn't be "Hey! Stuffer shack dude! I need a quarter pounder, raw, and a blood shake, to go please." either.

actually, I didn't know the answer to this question, so I went looking in the SR4 rulebook. The infection power only comes into play AFTER someone has been drained down to zero essence. And even then, it's a opposed test to see if they become infected.



depending on the particulars of character background, I could always take the option listed in the Runner's Companion and use some variant on the advanced lifestyles rules to handle part of the dietary requirement. Essence loss (for vampires) isn't TOO bad a deal - they have to feed at least once a month or lose one point of essence. ghouls tho...they have to feed at least once a week (5% of their body weight per week) or they start to starve to death. That might be most interesting indeed...hmm, also vampires have to feed on blood once a week too or they'll starve. so looks like they'll be raiding the blood bank in addition to draining essence at least once a lunar cycle....go go runner's companion.

So dietary requirements are going to be something to ponder for any player who decides to play an infected. i'm less concerned about them infecting someone else, since it seems to be fairly difficult to infect others. I also see no information listed about Infected and offspring - my assumption is that infection renders the victim infertile and unable to reproduce via normal methods.

ah - ok, so addendum to my previous post:

HMHVVI (strain I) can only be passed via the infection power.
HMHVVII and HMHVVIII are passed as other diseases. so contact with body fluids and the like can result in infection and transformation. However - strain II and III can be fought with magic and/or strong antibotics. if/when the disease takes effect, it's irreversible...but prior to that it can be fought off successfullly, if properly treated and swift action is taken.

also - it is apparently possible for someone to be a 'carrier' of HMHVV but not infected themselves. Infected can also take the 'infertile infected' quality and cannot infect other people. Interestingly enough, the reading of 'infertile infected' does hint at the possiblity of 'normal' childbirth for infected.

Yeah, carriers result when you have someone with an infection that isn't compatible with their metatype (such as a human with the Wendigo strain which only affects orks).

infertile infected generally result from the children of infected (Which are possible for some infected but not for others, there is a section on it in RC)

Also, you have got to be super careful with the spreading for the virus. Yes it can be fought off with antibiotics and such, but strain II is power 13 and strain III is power 8, both with penetration -6 (Don't remember if that is good or bad) and is spread by contact with an infected, their blood, or their saliva. You can get it down, but it is hard and requires serious medical/magical attention.

I'd suggest limiting the infected allowed to those that are type I so that it can be more easily controlled -or- requiring anyone with type II or III to get the infertile infected quality.

hmm...good points, and well worth considering. I just reread the rules for disease in the augmentation book and you're right - HMHVV is far nastier than even gamma-anthrax. however, it's still limited to contact. I'd specifically say contact where the possiblity of fluid transfer could take place, but the rules aren't that specific. Combat injuries could do it, of course. Or again, sexual contact with a ghoul (ewww). But merely shaking hands wouldn't be enough, at least in my book anyway.

howeve,r, the point about requiring infected players to take the infertile infected quality is well made. I shall add that to my character creation campaign notes.

I am curious to see how infected PC (Specfically Vampires) stack up compared the base metahumans in a 400 build point campaign.

I enjoy using Vampires as NPCs and have used a grade 3 initiate vampire mage as a prime runner in the North Jersey campaign (Risa from On the Run).

On paper, I assume a vampire with adapt or magical abilities would outshine an elf, human, ork, dwarf, or troll because of their regeneration powers and natural vision enhancements, and ability to turn into mist. (Especailly adapts).

The only downside that I can see is the build point cost to play a vampire ( I believe it's 100?), thus limiting the character in other departments such as attributes, skills, spells, contacts, resources, etc.

Shaking a ghoul's hand is enough to transfer the virus. Contact vectors are just that. Any sort of contact with anything that gives the disease (Which includes the infected itself, its blood, or its saliva) with any part of your skin counts as contact. This is what makes some people have a bit of difficulty believing the 'repressed minority' thing, because it seems like a single well disguised ghoul could transform thousands of people just by going up to people and shaking their hand or patting them on the arm or spitting on some hand rails or door nobs/handles.

Hehe, I'll have to make one once I'm done with my current character I'm working on.

to some extent, the BP costs for attributes are mitigated by the bonus stats vampires get merely for being one of the infected. Ghouls, for example, are walking freaking tanks. vampires tend to be quicker, more agile. But all of the infected see some level of modifications for their stat line.

To answer your question, yes - a vampire PC will suffer for their choice. it's 100BP for a vampire (35 for ghouls), which means sacrificing in other areas. Or picking up negative qualities somewhere. Not to mention the social stigma of being a vampire or ghoul. And I believe that many areas of the world still consider it open season on the infected. Not to mention that for many of the infected, merely trying to feed themselves is a crime. so there are significant downsides to playing one of the infected, and I intend to enforce them if and when they arise.

i'm going to disagree with that interpretation. contact with bodily fluids, yes. mere skin to skin contact, no. the rules in Augmentation (pg 129) and Runners Companion (pg 83) certainly indicate that contact or exchange of bodily fluids counts as exposure but shaking hands with ghoul isn't enough to spred the disease.

Boo. Hiss. Can't stand vampires to be honest with ya. Let me know how that turns out though. I am tempted to roll one myself and use them as a NPC.

Interesting. Only a moderate allergy to sunlight. That means they can go out in the sun without instantly frying.

Server to Wood. *Sharpens stake and gets a baseball bat ready*



There are many Ghoul socities, and I believe there is even a ghoul nation or sect in LA.

Vampires on the other hand. Not sure about. There probably is a secret society out there who call themselves the Sabbat or Camerilla.

Who makes anything out of wood in 2072? Bats included, last I checked wood was kinda hard/expensive to get.

There is some mention about Cabals of vampires (often headed by a nosforatu), but I figure that Vampires can blend into society quite well as they look almost completely normal (I've got a sunlight allergy, soy allergy, and fang implants when I was a kid)



Notice how it says with the creatures -or- their bodily fluids, thus contact with the creature itself is enough.

HMHVV III starts out the exact same way.

So unless you're wearing gloves, don't shake a ghoul's hand.

don't get me started.

I've actually been thinking about HMHVV and shadowrun quite a bit. were there people carrying the disease when mana levels got high enough for it to activate? If so, were they the 'first generation' of infected? given their immunity to age it's possible they're still around.

ghouls actually have two main 'factions': followers of Tamir Grey (the Ghoul Liberation League) who are largely peaceful and lawabiding, and the survivors of the Cabrini Green massacre (the 162s) who are much more militant and violent. Of the two, I could see the 162's going around and trying to infect high ranking corporate types and influential politicans.

actuall, I think they're the 162's. I don't have loose alliances with me at the moment so I can't check it for reference. Anyways, vampires are quite a bit more rare in shadowrun. Not to mention they seem to tend towards a more solitary lifestyle. I could see a couple vampires getting together to form a loose web of contacts and feeding tips/tactics but I don't see them clubbing together like the ghouls do. And forget about the nosferatu vampires - they're strictly loners. moreso than standard vampires.

One of the folks I'm playing with now played a ghoul in her last game, and my characters best contact is a ghoul in this one, along with her romantic interest.
Things to keep in mind:
You have to work out how they're getting their food. There are actual law abiding ways to do this, as well as black market.
Gloves. Chemically sealed.
Ghouls should not be kissed, and should not have sex, except with other infected. (Yes, I know, romance interest for my character aside, its a tragedy thing for them. look but don't touch)
Ghouls look like ghouls, except when they don't. cybereyes, good make up, wigs. And you can't fix that astral signature.
If your teammates find out you're a ghoul theres a 50/50 chance they'll kill you Some groups its worse odds than that, some groups its better.
If you are a SINless ghoul, you are fair game for bounty hunters.

sometimes the challenges are what make the game fun, sometimes its what makes it not fun. Do whats fun for ya'll.

~TDG

Hell, even if you have a SIN you are still likely to be "fair game".


But then again, my players have a "kill it with fire" attitude towards Ghouls, Vampires not so much since they have to actually try to infect you...
'

Yes, it is. Yes, it does.



You are thinking of Injection. Ghouls spread by Contact, with a nearly guaranteed success rate (Power 8 ). Unless immediately treated with high-rating nanotechnology, the character will become a Ghoul, and even then, they are probably going to loose a significant chunk of Essence.

Rules as Written, the fluff cannot be accurate because the entire planet has become Ghouls 5 years ago.




Edit: To the original question, Vampires & Nosferatu are correctly priced, & reasonably balanced (they should be slightly better - the Infected additional IP should stack with other forms of Initiative Enhancement).

As for the other Infected, they are all either overpowered or underpowered - most to a significant degree - for the Build Points they cost to play. For example, barring the above idiocy regarding contagions, Ghouls should cost 60 Build Points, & Loup-Garou should be a 20 Build Point negative quality.

Assuming you fix the contagion factor (which should be done regardless of if there is a player ghoul or not), and you do not mind the balancing discrepencies (I do, so I changed the costs), then Ghouls are just fine.


Suggested Contagion Fix:
Power: 5
Vector: Injection
Penetration: -2

This means that a single hit from a Ghoul's natural weapon that deals Physical damage will run a strong chance of Infection, but it is not a guaranteed thing (although it will make it more likely the next time, & so on). More importantly, the rules actually match the fluff & it is no longer a apocalypse scenario.

If you're going to use Ghouls in your campaign, you first need to decide which version of HMHVV you're using in your game. Running Wild had a new version that, i believe, superceded the runner's companion version. The RW virus, when applied to the rules normally, basically results in instant zombie apocalypse. Our gaming group took one look at it, went 'Yeah, thats really stupid' and tossed that rule out of our table. From the looks of it, everyone else in this thread is assuming you'll be using that book.

Just pick up the runner's companion instead. Much more reasonable.

We are using RC for all of these numbers.

Edit: Or at least I am.

As am I.

Here's another oddity to the HMHVV rules - if ghouls were really 'one touch/instant infection', then why are the bounties on them so low? Looking in 'Running Wild', sidebar pg 64 there's a list of bounties paid in the CAS and UCAS on various and sundry infected. Ghouls rate a 1,500 nuyen catch in the CAS, 1,500 in UCAS. Vampires, on the other hand, weigh in at 6,000 nuyen for CAS, 7,500 in the UCAS.

Aside from establishing the fact that the UCAS really really hates vampires for some reason, why would the critter with the lesser rate of infection (i.e. vampires having to drain essence of a victim before using their infection power) have the higher bounty when ghouls (if they can infect merely by shaking hands are a MUCH bigger danger) are a much much lower bounty? if the CAS and UCAS really wanted to get rid of ghouls they'd put a higher bounty on them to encourage hunting them down and getting rid of them.

totally weird.

Well, one thing that you have to keep in mind is that the ghoul infection takes 10 days to take full affect, so if you -know- you've been in contact with a ghoul, you can go get some medical treatment (Which might actually be provided for free by the government to prevent an outbreak). So the danger is when you have stealth ghoul going around spitting on door knobs, not when crazed ghouls try eating you.

There is also the fact that Vampires may not be as physically strong as Ghouls, but they are much harder to kill, and if they want they can transform a person in a matter of minutes. They are also rarer. UCAS doesn't mind forking over a big bounty on something that they are unlikely to have to pay up on more than 1 or 2 at a time. Ghouls on the other hand can be brought in by the cart load, and UCAS just doesn't want to have a sudden hit to their resources when someone walks in with 20 ghoul heads with a 10k bounty on each one.

Except for one minor detail - the rules in Runners Companion & Running Wild are identical.


You know, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. As I have been saying, the rules are fucking retarded. They simply do not work for anything except a Zombie Apocalypse game, & as this is obviously not such a game, the rules are broken.

Simple answer is the correct one - the HMHVV III rules do not function as intended, & no amount of trying to twist it will work, said rules simply need to be altered.

Actually, that's untrue. according to RC, pg 83 - HMHVV III (the ghoul strain) has a 1 day infection period. At any time after that, you can start spreading the joy of ghoul-dom. and you aren't incapacatated either - you can be walking around. Ok, technically you'd probably be puking your guts out, screaming/moaning in agony and somewhat confused...but you could be walking/stumbling around and infecting others. If we are to assume that mere touch alone is responsible for infection (and the pathology of the disease can be implied from other/older source material for this to NOT be the case), one ghoul that gets into someplace like ACHE (the former renraku arcology) would turn the entire place into a charnel house inside of 2 days.

Why would the CAS and UCAS not want to see something like that exterminated post haste?




the mechanics of vampiric infection vs ghoul infection patterns (assuming we take your model as reality) indicate that ghouls are the vastly greater threat. yet the bounty on ghouls is among the lowest in every nation. that simply does not fit together.

Again, simple answer is the correct answer. The Rules as Written need to be fixed, as they do not even remotely reflect the fluff or setting of the game.

here's what I think - I am going to treat HMHVV strains listed as 'contact' as to assume 'contact with bodily fluids'. Strain I is unchanged, still requiring the use of the critter Infection power/essence drain combo punch in order to activate it's vampiric goodness. To assume that merely shaking hands with a ghoul indicates instant infection simply does not fit with the established game setting. you're right - to strictly interpret the HMHVV rules as listed would result in an instant zombie apocalypse style game.

You should really read the full text and not just the quick stats. Also, reading over the disease rules again... you are very very unlikely to ever become a ghoul. You will lose a big chunk of essence, but you won't become a ghoul.

Get ready for rules!

Now then, HMHVV III has a speed of 1 day, a power of 8, and a penetration of -6. Here is how it all comes together:
You get touched by a ghoul (Eww) and catch the virus. It has a 1 day incubation period, after which you roll your body to reduce the power. Any sort of other bonuses (Such as help from medical assistance) is reduced by 6, so you're unlikely to get much help from anything short of the very best medicine. Now, average person has a body of 3, so will get about 1 hit on average, reducing the power to 7. They then lose .1 essence because of the disease. At this point they are a carrier but not yet a ghoul (Which I suppose means they can transmit through blood, but likely not contact or even saliva yet). Now, another 24 hours later, the disease kicks in again. You roll body, average joe reduces the power to 6, and loses another .1 essence. After 7 days and .7 essence lose, day 8 rolls around, the power is down to 1, and the final hit reduces the power to 0. At this point you do not lose another .1 essence. You are still a carrier until 10 days have passed, but you are no longer at risk of actually becoming a ghoul (Because in order for HMHVV III to turn you into a ghoul, it must drain a full point of essence and still be active (have a power over 1)). After day ten passes, so long as the power has already been reduced to 0, you don't become a ghoul and the virus dies in your system. You've lost some essence from the ordeal, but survived.

So yes, if you actually read the rules and follow them properly, only the weak and sickly will be turned into a ghoul by HMHVV III, everyone else will just take an essence hit. Since there is no knowledge of an 'essence' number in SR, people don't realize just how much it cost them to touch that ghoul, and so that is why the bounty is so low.

Entirely incorrect. Go read the Pathogen rules again - the Power is cumulative.

Breakdown:

Day 1: Power 8. Joe Average achieves 1 Hit, reducing Power to 7. 0.1 Essence Loss.
Day 2: Power 8+7=15. Joe Average achieves a remarkable 3 Hits, reducing the Power to 12. 0.1 Essence Loss.
Day 3: Power 8+12=20. Joe Average craps out with 0 Hits, for 20 Power. 0.1 Essence Loss.
Day 4: Power 8+20=28...

Do I need to continue? Also note that if you somehow avoid turning into a Ghoul in your first "infection episode", you have still lost a significant amount of Essence. More importantly, you turn into a Ghoul when you have lost 1.0 Essence due to the virus, not due to a single episode of infection.

This is the reason that even at my suggested Power 5, -2 Penetration, the disease is still very dangerous. Reduce the Power to 2, and if you have not adjusted the Vector, it still results in Zombie Apocalypse within a month.


Edit: Forgot to mention that if you somehow manage to reduce the Power to 0, the only result is you do not suffer the symptoms for that single test. The disease continues for a minimum of 10 days with cumulative power. Only after that point is the Power no longer cumulative, & thus ends if you reduce the Power to 0 as described in the above post.

Nope - according to your strict interpretation of the disease rules, if you've got the disease and it's active, you can pass it along to others just as if you were a ghoul yourself. So under your hypothetical situation, one ghoul can touch off a cascade of infections. It'll grow exponentially too since symptoms don't appear until after the first disease resistance test - which takes an entire day. so anyone who gets touched by a ghoul is now carrying the ghoul strain of the virus and everyone they touch will be infected as well.

And even after they're affected by the disease (i.e. take their first disease resistance test) they are STILL able to infect people. Ghoul disease doesn't incapaciate it's victims. Oh it frags 'em up seriously bad, but they can (theoretically) still move around and infect other people. Vampirism, on the other hand, puts you into a coma for a couple days while the disease transforms you (then you wake up hungry and looking for blood and souls to consume).

Again - all the data indicates that, according to strict interpretation of the rules, ACHE should be the racoon city Hive in about 2 days after a ghoul manages to slime it's way through the sewer tunnels.

Darn, I missed that it was cumulative.

Alright, so you are basically screwed unless you have an amazing body score and a bunch of resistance to help you out.

I still think it is fairly unclear as to at what point you can pass it on again by simple touch. I would think that until it completely infects you (become a ghoul) it could only be passed on by contact with your blood.

I would think the HMHVV III having to wait until the victim is fully turned into a ghoul to pass on by touch would be the main thing stopping zombie Apocalypse. Even then, your right, a single ghoul managing to find its way into a city could infect alot of people, though I still figure that anyone who has HMHVV III (But isn't a ghoul yet) is either given amazing medical care or shot.

the ONLY way this works is if 'contact' infection means 'contact with blood and/or saliva'. simple skin to skin contact infection would result in massive outbreaks of ghouls within any given major urban population center. It would also result in worldwide zombie apocalypse within about 6 months.

I'd also make the further assumption that HMHVV cannot live outside of a host for very long. perhaps 20 minutes or so at most.

Ghouls themselves might be the best defence against pandemia: most of the people they touch do not live long enough to contaminate anybody.

RAW specifically states that it includes contact with the ghoul itself, which would indicate its own skin. What RAW does not state is that someone carrying HMHVV III that hasn't yet transformed into a ghoul can pass it on by -any- means at all (I just figure blood would still have it). So yeah, just don't touch their blood (Which is generally avoided anyway) and you'll be fine. This is what prevent zombie apocalypse, the fact that only a small portion get infected and then not treated before their time is up, and that they can't in turn infect anyone for 10 days.

Now, I'm not saying that it isn't still overpowered, but you don't have everyone in a building infected in ten seconds.

Edit: This does make the fact that some countries want to give ghouls citizenship very scary, because then there would be a very serious risk of infecting other people by mistake.

Edit2:
Good point

remember - you can start transforming into a ghoul within a DAY after making your first disease test. according to the rules, that means you are infectious from that point forward. And since ghouls aren't incapacatated during their transformation, they can wander around touching, sweating, crying and puking on everyone around them, thus infecting them as well. One ghoul riding the subway during rush hour would infect an entire train worth of victims. who would go home and infect their friends/family/neighbor/coworkers. who would then spread the infection still further.

As currently written, the HMHVV rules equate to full on zombie apocalypse within about a year from first infection.

No you can't. You transform when you lose 1 essence, and not before then. And while you can be up and about, there are about a half dozen debilitating side effects, most of which basically say "You aren't going anywhere buddy."

If you want to keep it playable with RAW, just figure on the fact that the virus can only be transferred by blood until the person has fully transformed into a ghoul. Problem solved just like that. A ghoul is still a big problem if he gets loose in the middle of a city, but at worse some people go to the hospital and suck on meds for a while and the ghoul is quickly killed (This might explain the whole 'there is a bounty on ghouls' thing.)

pain and nausea, which while totally uncool aren't as bad as paralysis (which WOULD stop you in your tracks). And the rules make no distinction between transformation and infection - according to the rules, it is entirely possible to be still fighting the disease and still infect others by touch alone. which again, does not make sense.

the only way this works is if ghouls only pass the infection along via contact with blood and/or bodily fluids. mere touch alone is insufficent. If that were the case, SR4 would be Resident Evil all over again.



except that again, the rules themselves are working against your interpretation here. For example - in Augmentation, pg 131 the rules for influenza state that oubreaks of superflu (i'm paraphrasing here) are power 6. But the baseline power of HMHVV III is power 8. POWER 8! it's more powerful than the 1917-1918 swine flu epidemic! And it's spread by mere touch alone. compare the two disease again - superflu (the power 6 version) has a penetration of 0. But ghoul fever has a -6 pen. Not to mention ghoul fever has a longer incubation period, thus allowing someone who's been infected to go spread the disease to others before he gets hit with the first symptoms. so ghoul fever spreads rapidly, is vastly more powerful than the superflu and eats antibiotics for lunch and asks for seconds.

Yeah, I happened to read that about influenza and noticed how much more benign it is than HMHVV III. But like I said, there still isn't anything in the rules that suggests someone can transfer HMHVV III by touch at any point before they have become a full fledged ghoul, which is the only way that the disease makes any kind of sense as not being instant RE.

There are three real options. You play it RAW and accept that an infected can't pass the disease on by touch until they are full ghouls (Because it never states anywhere that it can be transferred in any way before the full transformation), or you change how the disease works so that it must be contact with blood/saliva only, or you just make it much much weaker.

Also, with pain and nausia, I suppose they -could- walk around, but they aren't real likely to (Incapacitated half the time, suffer double wound modifiers, and severe pain)

Like I said, multiple ways to deal with it so that SR doesn't become RE and I'll just leave it at that for now.

Edit: Though admittedly it could be fun to play an RE style SR game that runs with the 'zombie outbreak' policy. Maybe have the PCs be naturally immune to HMHVV III

Edit2: Actually, I think I might just have to run with that idea now...

The rules make no distinction on it it either way - but the rules certainly heavily imply that someone currently suffering from an infection can still pass it on to others in the same way that they themselves were infected. which in the case of HMHVV III means touch.



I'm going to assume the rules were not carefully edited with rates of infection in mind and modify them accordingly. keep in mind that it is STILL easy to be exposed to HMHVV III during combat. A ghoul bite could do it, as could any sustained close quarters hand to hand combat with one of the infected. But touch alone wouldn't be enough. sexual contact (ewww) of course would still count as exposure.



And I ain't gonna touch the rules for being born infected. you'd have to be very very drunk indeed to nail a ghoul chick after a long night in the bar.



First off, i'm reading this thread and my MP3 player starts in with 'The man comes around' by Johnny Cash (aaaaa! zombies!) and second off - ghouls going around converting people in the ACHE would be Knight Errant's worst nightmare come true.

EDIT

the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of ghouls infecting people in ACHE. imagine if the militant ghouls got in there and started...um...'recruiting' the bitter and desperate people locked up in there.

Both parents could be ghouls.

I prefer to leave the details of ghoul sexuality to the imaginations of others.

ya sick freaks.

Another comparison:
VITAS-3
Vector: Inhalation
Speed: 12 hours (4)
Penetration: -2
Power: 6
Nature: Viral
Effect: Stun Damage (converts to Physical when track exceeded), Malaise, Nausea


HMHVV III
Vector: Contact
Speed: 24 hours (10)
Penetration: -6
Power: 8
Nature: Retroviral
Effect: Pain, Nausea, Essence Loss, Transformation


VITAS-3 is described as one of the deadliest plagues in existence, with a mortality rate of 50% in humans. This is, in fact, roughly accurate with the Rules as Written at a glance.

The important aspects of the comparison have been outlined.

Re: Infected Diet

If I recall, RC says an Infected character can pay an extra 10% (or thereabouts) in their lifestyle cost to cover the their unique dietary requirements (although this alone won't offset whatever legalities you had to break to GET said dietary reqs...).

Also, not all vampires are bad. I recall some fluff in either a SR novel or sourcebook from way back in the day that had some guy talking about how he knew this one considerate vampire that, instead of feeding off live victims, he would buy metahuman blood from a blood bank.

Is this still a viable option for vampires (and thus banshees, nosferatu, and other blood-drinking essence drainers)? I understand that vampires actually drink essence, not blood; blood is just the transfer medium. So, does drinking blood-bank blood still count as containing some essence?

well...according to the Runner's companion, pg 81 - vampire player characters pick up (among other things) a dietary requirement of of metahuman blood. this is in addition to essence loss. So as I understand it correctly, that means vampires have to feed on approx a pint of blood once a week or they start to starve (just like ghouls do if they don't eat metahuman flesh). Additionally, if a vampire doesn't feed on essence at least once a month, they'll start to suffer essence loss.

so it's blood AND souls that they have to feed on or suffer the consequences.

Vampires require blood and Essence - it is not simply a transfer medium, it is a dietary requirement on it's own. Further, Essence Drain only functions against living sentient beings.

If you can convince your GM that the blood from a blood bank is both living & sentient, then it might work. This is very obviously a bullshit tactic though.

Yeah, it is 30% and covers blood and/or meat.

expensive. probably makes the bookkeeping easier tho.

Well, aside from whatever legal troubles you might get from, say, making deals with the Devil *COUGH!* er, Tamanous.