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Trench
I think the rule mechanic is supposed to be that Improved Invisibility will defeat any photon-based scanner if the net successes overcome the object threshold.

This makes for an odd discrepancy in the case of implanted radar. Radar would be able to detect an area of "light warping" due to its nature of bouncing signals off walls. The distance wouldnt add up right. So it would seem that even a low grade radar would overcome Improved Invisibility.

However, normal invisibility affects the mind. Even cyberware enhanced vision shouldnt be able to pierce it, because radar and ultrasound are still registering in his mind's eye.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Trench @ Nov 4 2009, 08:56 AM) *
This makes for an odd discrepancy in the case of implanted radar. Radar would be able to detect an area of "light warping" due to its nature of bouncing signals off walls. The distance wouldnt add up right. So it would seem that even a low grade radar would overcome Improved Invisibility.

However, normal invisibility affects the mind. Even cyberware enhanced vision shouldnt be able to pierce it, because radar and ultrasound are still registering in his mind's eye.
Actually I don't see any contradiction there. The normal invisibility spell only affects the mind in a way that is blocks out sight (wavelenghts from 400 nm to 1 mm) of the spell's target. All other senses are not affected. Radar is just like hearing, smell, taste another sense which is not affected by the spell.

BTW radar is not Eyeware thus it is a bit far fetched to talk about the mind's eye
Summerstorm
Hm hm... interesting discussion. I will enter my opinion too. (Even if is somewhat redundant) I am in the Radar will NOT be fooled by Invisibility - Camp.

My Reasoning is that: Magic as it is in this stage of the sixth world heavily relies on human concepts, not on raw physics. Radar is not a natural sense, so no casting mage/spirit or the spell itself considers it part of the target. (Maybe by the mind of the caster, maybe by the intuitive role of magic, maybe because the GM...umm will of the cosmos wills it so). An Internal Radar isn't really a "sense" either it is more of a tool which you can "take a mind-look" at. It is only partially involved in the "sensing" and more with the "knowing". (Well i interprete it as such... you don't really "see" with it. an machine interprets it for you and gives you the information (Either directly in your brain or displayed in your imagelink)

Also: The sentence in the description of the spell stating it "bends the light around you" is either false or implies a complex working behind that itself: Either you are completely blind and cut off from ALL radio/em/radarsignals and such OR it bends the light BUT also replicates it for you, so you can see and hear. That would mean it has to be selective about a wide array of frequencies and have to make sure they enter your field, but not leave. I think that would be too complex for a spell to do, so i guess it works ... because it is magic *g*.

So i say every not natural occuring sensor is not fooled by this spell, except maybe it is cast by an AI which experienced it as natural (Well tough luck finding that AI *g*)
Trench
It replaces the visual sense.
Warlordtheft
Let's face it-when magic and technology mix you don't know what is going to happen. The result may be 2+2=5.5

To drag this post back on topic, the following are the modifers to infiltration:

Visability:London fog, or sunny day (visiual only)

Precipatation:Rain or snow or ash from an erupting volcano (could effect thermographic, radar, sound and motion based sensors depending on severity)

Ambient tempature:Hot humid jungle or artic (would affect thermographic)

Terrain:trees, bushes and other ground clutter like cars in a parking lot. In some cases sound as well.

Camoflage, including the stealth suite (visual only)

Thermal dampnening (thermographic)

Invisibility:Visual and themographic

Spirit concealment power: all

Silence:sound based perception checks)

Then make opposed test-pitting infiltration to perception. The main thing to realize is that much of the modifiers are applied to the spotter, not the one making an infiltration check (terrain would be the biggest modifier for the infiltratrator).

Note trid phantasm and phantasm would be an all or nothing deal (aka-resist the spell and it has no effect) and is not a stealth check.
djinni
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/
Semerkhet
QUOTE (djinni @ Nov 4 2009, 10:33 AM) *

Precisely! And my vision of Magic!!!!™ is that it lets Improved Invisibility work on any detector relying on photons. Period. Radar is using photons, ergo it does not detect objects placed under the Improved Invisibility spell. Assuming the caster defeats Object Threshold or Resistance Test, natch.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Semerkhet @ Nov 4 2009, 09:52 AM) *
Precisely! And my vision of Magic!!!!™ is that it lets Improved Invisibility work on any detector relying on photons. Period. Radar is using photons, ergo it does not detect objects placed under the Improved Invisibility spell. Assuming the caster defeats Object Threshold or Resistance Test, natch.



That would be a great explanation for why it works, except that the Rules as Written specifically say that Radar is immune to such tricks, and invisibility (of any stripe) DOES NOT WORK AGAINST IT... Seems to me that it is pretty cut and dried there... See Augmentation, Page 36 under Radar Sensor...

Keep the Faith
Semerkhet
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Nov 5 2009, 09:43 PM) *
That would be a great explanation for why it works, except that the Rules as Written specifically say that Radar is immune to such tricks, and invisibility (of any stripe) DOES NOT WORK AGAINST IT... Seems to me that it is pretty cut and dried there... See Augmentation, Page 36 under Radar Sensor...

Keep the Faith


You are correct, sir. For my game, however, I'm going to fix their little consistency error. I follow RAW as the default, but I have no hesitation to change things that don't make sense to myself or my players.
toturi
QUOTE (Semerkhet @ Nov 6 2009, 09:39 PM) *
You are correct, sir. For my game, however, I'm going to fix their little consistency error. I follow RAW as the default, but I have no hesitation to change things that don't make sense to myself or my players.

It will make sense if you can break free of the mindset that physics in the SR universe function as physics does in RL.
Traul
More accurately: physics function in the same way, but magic tells them to shut up and sit down (© Vaarsuvius).
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