Sorry, I mixed the two, it hasn't changed.


That should at least alleviate Seele's fears about getting "caught in the act", nothing will regenerate in the presence of your wood.


PS: And yes, shapeshifters are sapient animals who can assume human form, not vice versa. 100% furry-proof.

There is speculation that the story of Adam and Eve was (intentionally?) mistranslated... See, human males seem to have all their ribs quite intact.

augh! bad pun! ^^

Having it as a severe allergy is even sillier. If they're just around real wood, they're severely weakened. Vulnerabilities, while the weakness didn't actually exist in SR4 until Running Wild outside of individual critter descriptions, at least limits it so that they have to be damaged by wood for it to impact them.

I agree. Having a vampire take damage from merely holding a baseball bat or leaning against a tree does seem silly. In previous editions they had the vulnerablity but not the allergy (to wood), but in the SR4 BBB there were no vulnerabilities. A simple fix would be to say that vamps are affected by wooden weapons as if they had a severe allergy (+4 DV, doesn't Regen in contact), and just ignore the rest.

The big difference between vulnerabilities in Running Wild is that in previous editions, vulnerabilities didn't impede Regeneration.

Yes, and there is speculation among those who need to speculate in this way, that the 'rib' lost by Adam was in fact the penis bone.

I was trying to imply it.

Well, as a starting point an adept character of mine did kill a vampire this way...
Killing Hands, all unarmed attacks... yea...

Hm, I guess there are worse ways to die...


Yes, my brain is overcompensating after being forced to watch the most prudish vampires ever

Well, a vampire prostitute and an adept with wood elemental effect for his thrusts would be pretty shamefull right?

You all need therapy.

You all need therapy.

It's been tried. 4 times by now. No change. Either means I am right and the rest of the world is wrong, or they just don't know any more and have given up.

Insanity is just a measure of how wrong everyone else's view of the world is, ne?

Look at the world, being mad is the only logical response!

Right, they are "not sufficiently metahuman."

Drakes are, however, so you do get your "scalies."

But remember, everything in ShadowRun breeds true: an elf and a troll don't make "half-elf trolls." You either get a troll OR an elf.

It should certainly be possible to get a human, too, or any other metahuman. Crossbreeding since the fourth world has been rampant. Everyone has multiple dormant genes in their system, and interracial children should be able trigger all kinds of weirdness. I do remember reading some fluff somewhere that nicked that idea for whatever reason, though. But that's never stopped me from using the idea in my backgrounds.

The metahuman gene doesn't really follow any standard known genetics, eg. Dominant and Recessive traits.

We can assume that it's similar to eye color genetics, but that would mean that there is some metahuman type that is default recessive (eg. that type will only have children of that type) and some type is default dominant (a type where half of the individuals will only have children of their own type, the other half will have a 50-50 ratio between their type and another type).

Eye color genetics is a 3 gene system, which is only partly understood (look it up), and doesn't explain how eye color changes over time, or varying shades of colors, or why all babies eyes are blue. But it is known that blue eyes are default recessive (eg. blue eyes partnered with a non-blue carrier will never result in blue eyes).

As far as I am aware, metatypes in ShadowRun are some weighted percentage between the parent's type and human (eg, elf + troll = 10% human, 45% elf, 45% troll) where two humans have their own set of funky math.

This can be said for most genetic fields, actually. They have yet to map the whole genome. Last I heard, they only had like 4 of the 46 done (and that's just from one person - there's billions of people. I know that the corresponding genes should be the same thing [IE: This part does hair, that part does skin tone], but that still means they're only mapping one person, with one set of dominant traits).



... My eyes go between blue, green, blue-gray, gray, hazel, and sometimes purple, and I can consciously change their color (I don't get to decide what they change to though ). In other words, my eyes defy modern conventions.

I knew it, Neraph is a Mary Sue!

I'd thought they finished up. I heard they finished off the pig genome not too long back as well (making it the second farm animal after the cow).

The human genome has been mapped (see HERE), but much of it hasn't been figured out yet.

Quotet for Truth.

Guys Guys Guys... i leave you alone for two weeks and Stahlseele proves that he is a witty insane man.

I agree with the general consens that regeneration actually is healingx200. For shapeshifter at least. So no hymen regeneration. As for limbs, i don't know. Probably with magical aid and much eating. And pain.

The books have specified that shapeshifters cannot regenerate nerve damage. Loss of a limb includes pretty extreme nerve damage (not to mention, trauma to everything else - if you don't survive, you don't regenerate). So I would say you *MAY* be able to heal the limb if you actually have the limb and have some pretty good medical care to reknit those nerves. But if the limb is actually lost, it's lost (and likely, so is the lycanthrope).

Vampires, of course, are a little different.

Not quite, they can't regenerate damage to the CENTRAL nervous system, which "only" includes the brain and spinal cord.

So, theoretically you could take a shifter or vamp, chop off his arms and legs as well as 6 inches from each side of his torso leaving only a narrow strip of his body and head, and within a few passes he could be walking around uninjured?

Only if they could survive that much damage in the first place. The thing you have to remember is that the amount of damage they can take is still limited before they die (Which they can't regenerate from). There isn't any sort of real "You take this much damage from losing a limb." but I'd imagine it is alot, though using the right sort of tools might make be less (like a loop of monofilament wire pulled tight around a limb by a pneumatic pump or something similar.)

Like Marvin did in Sin City?

Basically yeah

Even if they go into / past overflow, the Regeneration Power still allows for a check to see if they have regenerated enough damage to stay alive. It's hard (but not impossible) to kill someone with Regeneration.

Let's be honest, Sin City is 2070 Seattle without the cyberware, matrix, and magic. Marvin? He's a sammy.

True, you get that final check, but if you aren't out of the super negative by then, you do die, which is why I said it has to not kill them.

LOL! Indeed it is, indeed it is.
You sir just gave me ideas for a Troll Sammy called Marvin

After creating a shapeshifter character and getting confronted by my group with these serious problem in terms of private adult entertainment after they found this thread, i decided to take a close look on this topic and im pretty sure to have found your answer.
As for humans, i would like to provide this short link.
As you can see and verify this statement by consulting other sources in the internet the human hymen regenerates itself from tissues and stretching.
Once its wholly rupted, it doesnt regenerate any more by natural means.
Sidenote : Magical SR healing should heal this wound nonetheless so keep in mind that everytime when a female metahuman character gets healed by magical means or takes an augmented healing the hymen will be restored. So you can enjoy multiple deflorations in your life - cheers

This results in the following consequences for female shapeshifter chars:
Most mammals have a hymen too, see wiki
As for my fox shapeshifter who most likely has a hymen too (see here - foxes are a subspecies of the canidea the dog-like, see wiki) either in fox and human form since the runners companion description of the shift (human) power doesnt state otherwise.

This means for sexual intercourse with untreated female shapeshifters:
the whole thing can be a rather bloody progress depending on the physical structure of their special hymen so in animal as in human form since regeneration works against your precious manhood as long as you remain inside. Shouldnt give you that much resistance since a hymens barrier rating isnt really that high (as long as you dont come along with a str attrib of 1, which may cause problems penetrating a hymen or thrusting in a woman at all).

Yet i have to put up another more crunch relevant question about shapeshifter menstruation cycles as its very import for pheromone and olfactory scanners.
Assuming they chance into a complete metahuman body which would mean they also take over the characterstics of the human hormone system the conclusion would be that they have a monthly menstruation. But as clearly stated in the runners companion the dna structure consist, in the case of my example, of fox dna which have a "hardcoded" mating time with fertility and stuff from approximatly january to march (see wiki too) - so the question is : which factor is dominant in this case?
And also highly interesting, while nowhere stated:
What does happen with a pregnant shapeshifter (respectively her babies) using her shifting power?
Also, two shapeshiters in human form performing "the old game" during fertility season will produce offspring (RAW in RC) too - how does this works all out? Abominations? Healthy little foxies coming out of a human womb? Or more interesting - furries eventually?

I really made up my mind about all this topic and i would like to present you some solutions for those guys who worries about their precious female shapeshifters healthy and enjoyable sex life:
First i thought about an operational removement of the hymen via scalpell with a silver blade but this leads to several problems :
The regeneration power regenerates all stun damage. As narcotics like tranq patches do stun damage, shapeshifters are immune to this stuff.
Sidequestion: which speed does tranq patches have? I never saw a concrete statement about this.
Due the severe allergy quality induces extreme pain in case of contact with the allergene, an operation while conscious would be really dangerous as your character wont lie still during the operation which will lead to even more serious and really undesireable injuries in the vaginal area.
So you could go for a befriended magician who stunbolts you unconscious while watching the doc.
This again will be very dangerous, the removal of the hymen will be made with a silver scalpell (otherwise it would regenerate again) so you have to resist 0+4+2 DV (0 from the attack with scalpell, assumed the doc will remove all his hits, 4 bonus dice for the severe allergy quality and 2 for vulnerability) which isnt that compfortable too.

Looking for more convenient ways of getting rid of your ever-regrowing virginity i suggest you to make use of the magic fingers spell - its physical so it wont collide with the astral body like other astral forms, which allows you to "slip-in". also it does psychokinetic magical damage which is neccesary to get semi-permanent rid of the hymen (until the next heal spell comes in).

In any case, the necessisity of a hymen removal still depends on the individual shape of the shapeshifters hymen, its also quite possible that its doesnt interfere the mating process in an unconvenient way. So, its a thing you can decide this during character creation. Just make sure to notice it somewhere - just in cause.
I might really screw your infiltration run when you draw your target into bed for distraction and your arent capacle of "distration" him long enough just because the bleeding and the pain kills all the fun and your target returns to somewhere where he isnt desired for the sucess of a mission.
Face shapeshifters beware!

I hope my ideas will serve you in some way to overcome your shapeshifter regeneration problems, Stahlseele i also would like to dankeschön you for coming up with such interesting and highly discussionworthy problems of shapeshifter in SR. It made me think more about how far regeneration in every aspect works.

Some threads are just too good not to be necro'd


Hm, I just looked up the barrier rules again:
Apply the remaining DV as damage to the barrier. If the total boxes are greater than or equal to the Structure rating, the attack has made a hole in the structure. Each hole is one square meter per increment of Structure rating. For example, an attack that dealt 30 net points of damage to a Structure 15 barrier would create a 2-square-meter hole.

Sounds like a serious case of throwing a hotdog down the hallway, that should be kept in mind for any ingame defloration attempts...


Yep, we don't want all the work put into that table entry go to waste, don't we?
Although there's a line in Augmentation saying females can switch their period on and off at will...


Great dragons? I mean, do you seriously believe they use such mundane means as eggs?

On a more serious note, shapeshifters in human form are still the original animals, just with a permanent shapechange spell. Wasn't there even something about them reverting bck to animal form if killed in human form?

The description is a bit tricky - the duration is special. The box (p.85 RC) says that they use the same power again, when they shift back into an animal.

Dont be fooled by the line "The critter does not suffer a -2 penalty for sustaining this power" read the headline - Duration: special.
Critter powers are generally special and are hard to compare with spells in the way they are working.
Be aware that critter powers cant be dispelled by counterspelling and they dont drop their sustain due heavy damage, distraction full evasion, ect.

When shapeshifters die they loose all their powers so they return to their animal form just like when their magic attribute is reduced to zero (which happens when they die too because the aura dissipates).

So i assume the answer should be yes. This is useable if you want to be sure if a suspected shapeshifter is really dead.