I could see books disappearing...For novels. For fiction.

For academic works? For anything of legal importance? For textbook-type things?

No.

Anything where you might be called upon to read 50-60 pages at a time, people are going to still use bound books.

(Legal documents in particular. I hate to say this to all the futurists, but we can't get the courts to move to e-filing outside of some specialized settings (The bankruptcy courts are all e-file. Beyond that? Not so much.), let alone accepting, say, a will or a mortgage that isn't on paper.)

Yeah, really, the point of emphasis here is "the standard home." There's going to be people who keep books that were handed down to them, or are necessary for their jobs as well as people that collect books because books happen to be something they love. These are not near universal attributes. Personally, I love reading and dislike books.

I disagree about page count being a big thing as well. The bigger the book, the more I want it to be miniaturized and indexed.

For tech books there's something reassuring about ah ard copy. At my office we have a mannual for pretty much everything 'how to' with regard to sales, purchases, cancels, puts, calls (I work in finance) and you can have it in hard copy or on line. a lot of people use the on line one, I prefer the one on my desk. I know where in the book some stuff is "I know that number is at the start of section 2" and can flip through the pages at the very front wthout having to igve it full attention.. Using the on line stuff it is just page after electornic page with page 228 the same as 11 for how it feels.

Cooking will still happen. in the home it is cheaper than eating out and is something that lets someone know they are in a home than just a hotel room. Probably things like microwaves will be a very big deal (I don't own one RL) I like the idea of an induction counter top that doubles as a desk though.

Most small mom and pop stores will be gone replaced by corp distribution centers- malls and supermarkets and box stores. That's happening now, Seriously when I was little I remember my dad going to local hardware stores, now if my husband needs something he's off to Home Depot.

No more single-purpose electronics.

There will probably be a video/trideo screen that also works as your X.1* surround sound system, alarm clock, radio, matrix interface and commlink (for purists and the enlightened who won't get an internal comm).



*Microspeakers that reflect the sound to give you a full 360 audio experience.

so why didnt books disapear when everyone could just go to a library? people like to have something in their hands and something of their own. if printed books disapear then the electronic version probably would as well.

the big diff is that even with a copying machine, a hardcopy is time consuming to duplicate.

a digital version on the other hand, is not.

also, a library have a limited number of copies, and only one person can access a copy at a time.

not so with a digital version. Just consider the number of people that can access a web page at the same time, while a similar page in printed form would be only accessible to one person (funny enough, the basic function of the net is to copy data between computers. each time a web page is accessed a copy is transferred to the local computer).

the net is a library of infinity. Basically no limit on shelf space or copies available on said shelves.

so do you only have netbooks? do you have any netbooks?

netbook or ebook? the first is a small "laptop", the second is a electronic version of your average book, either pdf format or a custom format more suited for small reading device.

i have either, tho lately i have been going more and more ebook.

doh! ebook sry.

I keep all of my eBooks accessable by my netbook (well, my wife's netbook, but all of my stuff is hers, so...)

Print wouldn't necessarilly be dead & extinct, but more likely preserved and become a collector's item, much like rare book are today. One can easilly pick up a copy of Jules Verne's 20,00 Leagues Under The Sea in a mainstream bookstore or find one in their local library today, or even download it as a PDF or onto an e-book, but what about a rare first edition? The craftamanship that went into a book from the early 1900's; the gilded edging, real leather-backed cover, even the watermark of the inner-cover lining?

I do not have a net book. I do not want a net book. I have lots of books, mostly I'm more concerned with the content than the pretty cover BUT I do have a 2nd printing of Elliot O'Donnell's autobiography from 1917. I is on my list of 'things to grab when the house is doomed.

I'd just grab my laptop.

I doubt books will disappear as much as it is implied in shadowrun. In my experience people like the physicality (I think I made that word up) of a book, sure you can get an ipad or something simular, but that's not for everyone. I get a splitting headache if I read a computer screen too long and I know others who do to. My experience isn't all encompassing, but as has been stated before humans are creatures of habit and books have been around for a long time.

Pocket watches and wristwatches have been around a long time too, but they have all but disappeared in a generation. Most younger people I know don't use them as they just check their cellphone (unless it is a status symbol and then its more jewelry then functional).


Oh, lets add watches to the list of things that no longer exist too.

If we are talking in-home, then I add Old People to the list. First of all is the plastic surgery that seems ubiquitous and might lead to odd moments such as that time your senior tutor said "You sister is pretty." without knowing it was your Grandma. Eck. Second, would be the large number of semi-automated independent living communities where the Corp/State will thoughtfully pay to warehouse your elderly loved ones. And third, would be the ease of hiding Old Gray Hair away in the back room with a Mr. Soy and a 24/7 trid cycle of early 21st weather patterns.

All this means most citizens will not encounter many old folks in their daily lives. Increased social fragmentation and Tres Chic lifestyle means no room for G-ma. 2070 conversation between two young siblings after one looks up from their Sony AllStation MP.

"Who is that person?"
"That is our Grandmother."
"Oh, we have that?"
"We have two of them."
"For true?"
"Yes, we come here every year, remember?"

That I'm going to take issue with - especially as SR is heavily influenced by Japanese/Asian values, which commonly have grandparents and the like far more included than in the West.

Were SR influenced more by classic American culture, you'd be right...But not if the Japanese influence is as great as suggested by canon.

That would be one of the few positives of all the Japancorp influence, I think - old people would be pretty revered, at least according to classical Japanese values.

It is possible that the traditionalists will revere the old folks, but most traditionalists can afford anti-agathic treatments. Most people who choose to look old will do so as an affectation, while of course the poverty stricken will be shunted off to Euthan-omatics as soon as they stop being useful. You can be as traditional as you like if you have the to pay for it. Lets face it, if the gene treatments for aging were only $100,000, they would have easy payment plans available to pay over the next 30 years, who can't afford that .

I have a clock on my cell phone but it's easier to look at my wrist and that leaves my hands free. Sure pocket watches are 'old school' but analoge wrist watches are far more common. Remember in the 1970's someone wrote about "ape decended lifeforms who are so amazingly backward they still think digital watches are pretty nifty." How many peopel have diigtal watches today compared with analogue? For professionals watches are more headware or com link stuff. BUT I wonder how long it would be in vogue for most people. For professionals watches are more headware or com link stuff. BUT I wonder how long it would be in vogue for most people.

I agree that the extended families would be more prevelant. Not just because of Japanese culture but as the world turns upsidedown, people hold on to whatthey have and a sense of tradition as it seems everything is changing. sure corp life means people are moved around but tech levels make it easier to stay in touch. Look at 2010 tech, letter writing weas an almost dead art until e-mails came along.

Also keep in mind that with modern day medicine, people are already living to really old ages. With the SR tech that is available, I don't see why the average life expectancy (Of a SINner) wouldn't be over 100, and why the life expectancy (Of a rich SINner) wouldn't be 200+

With this tech would also come a pushing back of 'old age' so that one might be very able to take care of themselves into their 80s. This would make it much more common to have 'old people' still in their own homes and not in some nursery home. It would make it much more common for people to really get to know their grand parents as they wouldn't be as 'old' and so would possibly connect with them on a level closer to that of their parents than some distant relation (Especially if younger old people can handle seeing their hyper-active grandchildren more often and so they see one another very regularly)

So yeah, overall I think people who are of senior citizen age would be more common, but they likely wouldn't be quite as 'old'.

This of course breaks down quickly for SINless and poor people. And I suppose there is some debate of what kind of post-retirement health plan you're likely to get in the SR setting. I'm sure to the corps, old people are viewed as little more then resource drains, but if they can convince their descendants to spend money on them, then they are a potential market of sorts.

Well yeah for humans, elves and dwarves, but Trolls and Okrs with their shorter lifespans have more of an issue, especially SINless.

True as far as reaching higher years, but they also have shorter reproduction cycles, so seeing their grandparents likely wouldn't be all that rare. The main difference is that 'old' for an ork is different from 'old' for a human as far as number of years is concerned.

Another unknown is how well orks and trolls age. Do they get to 50 and look about like a human 50 year old and then fairly suddenly die of old age or does it start to set in in the late 30s?

some of the old novels covered that, a grown ork, lookingl ike an adult was only 12-14 years old and only had that level of maturity (2XS) one of the books had an Ork as a main character. He encountered an orkish godfather who'd goblinized from human and had a human life span but his mother looked withered even though only about 30 so that implies tyhey just age really quickly through the life cycle.

hmm, now i ended up thinking about methuselah, tho the kind i am thinking of used mind copying tech rather then leonization treatments.

all in all, the end result was that the resources of the rich stayed in the hands of the rich, longer.

Alright, I knew about the growing up quick part, but wasn't sure about after that. Like I said though, since they are quicker in all regards, they'd have the same generation cycle as humans. Grandparents may be getting wrinkly at 35, but the child is already almost a teenager by 5, so it all works out.

FYI, if you take how old Methuselah was said to be (969 years at death) and convert from a lunar method of counting time to years (13:1) you get a reasonable number: 74. If you take the age he was when he had children (roughly 300) it works out to be 23 years old, another kid at 37 and a final child or children at 60.*
Counting the number of moons was more likely to have been relevant at the time than counting seasons or years where that particular interval of time had no actual meaning (e.g. you're in the fsking desert, what "spring planting cycle"?).
The only number that I'm seeing in the passage is how old Enoch was when he beget Methuselah: 65 years (65 moons = 5 solar years).

*Old, but not unreasonable.

</off topic>

A very precocious 5 year old.

Well, yes. (If it were a female...It wouldn't be so hard to believe.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altered_Carbon
it was a nickname in this book for rich people using mind backups and clone bodies to live virtually forever...

My mistake. I think I have heard of the book though.

its not bad. It shows that transhumanism do not have to become a utopia.

Given that this timeline is fated for a transhumanism dystopia already I say, "no shit, Sherlock." Its the opposite that's harder to prove (and one Ray Kurzweil firmly believes we can still achieve*).

*Unfortunately all of his prediction hinge on key events that have no cause, such as a 2010 World Summit on Educating Our Youth.** He provides no details as to why a world summit was needed on this issue or how that eventually catapulted education standards skywards.

**I'm not shitting you:


Note: Originally published in 1999, so he thought it would happen "in 10 years."

Given that this timeline is fated for a transhumanism dystopia already I say, "no shit, Sherlock." Its the opposite that's harder to prove (and one Ray Kurzweil firmly believes we can still achieve*).

*Unfortunately all of his prediction hinge on key events that have no cause, such as a 2010 World Summit on Educating Our Youth.** He provides no details as to why a world summit was needed on this issue or how that eventually catapulted education standards skywards.

**I'm not shitting you:


Note: Originally published in 1999, so he thought it would happen "in 10 years."

I keep all my SR ebooks on a 4 GB SD card. That way I can use them on my laptop and if I go out and don't want to carry my laptop I can use a computer at the place I'm going to.