Reaver: I obviously disagree. Considering the man-hours it would take, it's not reasonable to assume the mages who saw the spell's aura are going to be out looking at all existing auras for a match. Even if there was a non-violent crime (most shadowruns I'm involved in don't even result in injuries).

WuJen: The Astral Beacon effect of high-force spells died with 2nd Edition. That isn't true anymore.

Sphynx

With all of this talk, what would the target numbers be? So the questions would be

1) What is the tn for a astral perceiving person to find a awaken character? What about a focus on them?

2) What is the tn for a astral project ing mage? What about foci on them?
I think the tns are some thing like 10- force- 4 for astral perceiving + background count. Even if the tn is 2, Settle is a huge place and that should be taken into account.

Here are some other questions
3) How dangerous is the astral plane. I know this is talked about some where. I personally think it should be as dangerous as the matrix.

4) Would you ever have only one mage projecting? It seems like a bad idea for only mage to be on patrol in astral space at a time.

Not quite, you're not assensing the astral object (which most sammies will never be, as only astrally active things and astral entities are astral objects), you're assensing the aura.

There are two different types of test, assensing and astral perception. Assensing is done with Intelligence + Complementary Aura reading skill. Astral perception is done with Intelligence + Adept Enhanced Perception + Complementary Stealth(Alertness) + whatever, but it's the one that cover modifiers and crowded biomass modifiers ETC apply to. As there is no mention that cover modifiers apply to assensing tests then I presume that if you can see part of the aura you can assense the whole thing without difficulty. Also auras usually radiate past clothes to some extent.

I seem to remember this discussion of astral patrolling characters in some cannon. What about in the Lone Star supplement?

On a side note do we all at least agree that mundanes have basically zero chance of noticing foci or mages for that matter? The questions are really only about how often LS or other groups astrally patrol ... how much of a different does it make of a Mage just send out spirit to do his work? Or would they do it together? What would the tns be, as I asked before.

In Mits on page 89, it describes astral patrolling. Assuming that corps regularly scan Settle, which they would, the tn would be 6. 2 is the base + 1 for bio mass, + 1 for background count + 2 for searching a 10,000 square meter (6.21 miles?).

It seems to me that it wouldn't take long before every mage is existence would have a profile by every major corp. in existence. And before you say that masked mages wouldn't be as easy to find ... they would have a profile before they became initiated

10,000 square meters is about 0.00386 square miles, or ~259 such areas per one (1) square mile. Patrolling a large area in such a fashion would cost a lot.

Mardegun:

In the Lone Star supplement it does provide all the magical division's details, but I don't have it at my house. I beleive they are out on patrol on their own or with watcher spirits. No way are they going to patrol with elementals as standard - each time uses one service assuming they don't run into anything, and the ritual to get more services or another elemental is hideously expensive when mounted up over even a ten man force doing 8 hour shifts in rotation for, say, a month with force 4 elementals. 4 grand per spirit, which takes four hours out of the relevant mage's shift, per summoning ritual. Watchers yes; to send for help, mob astral attackers, and provide general aid; and with elementals on call, certainly. But I reckon they'd only be patrolling with them if they were expecting trouble or policing a specific event.

The rules are all screwy on astral perception. The target number to spot anything that isn't mundane is its force/magic rating. The more powerful it is, the harder it is to spot or gean information from. The latter, yes, but the former just doesn't make sense to me. If someone could explain how that works I'd be obliged - is Lilt right about the two types of test? We've always treated all astral perception tests basically as assensing checks, not as 2 seperate things. Have we been doing it all wrong? I'll happily accept correction on this one.

Under SR2 I had a really really good handle on the in-game rationale for how the magic rules worked. Under SR3 its much more 'these are the rules. The in game rationale may just be wrong as it is based on belief systems instead of a rigid science' which is fine, but does make extrapolating new and house rules tricky at times. Having said that, a lot of other things make more sense to me under SR3, like spell casting. I generally do prefer the SR3 system, but the in game information was much more consistent under SR2.

Err... Astral Patrolling is not what you think it is. Astral Patrolling does nothing more than let you know someone entered the area, doesn't give location, or pretty much anything else.

I'll point 2 things out to you to show you what I mean.

1) How long does it take to patrol an area?
2) How hard is it to see through a wall in the Astral Plane, and is it just as hard to see someone inside a building via Astral Patrolling?


Sphynx

Well yes, but considering the lack of rules for searching for awakened character why not use these rules as a basis?

Because it would be overpowered. Don't think just form the NPC side, think from the player side (and think as a GM). Do you want them knowing the exact location of the Corp Mages? You want the guys with the mortar rounds knowing that? It's really a good thing that the system isn't more informative. I mean think about the current setting... Right now smart players will 'astrally patrol' a target location, not set off any wards or anything. Anything more powerful is too abuseable.

Sphynx

The rules for perception are as follows:
SR3, P105, Free Actions, Observe
You can see only what is immediately obvious. No actual Perception Test is possible when observing as a free action.

SR3, P106, Simple Actions, Observe in Detail
You can make a detailed observation by taking a simple action. This allows a perception test.

SR3, P171, Astral Perception, Assensing
To read an aura, spend a simple action and make an Assensing (4) testusing intelligence dice.

SR3, P173, Astral Projection, Astral Senses
"Your astral form has the normal human senses of sight and hearing. You can also use assensing to read information from auras."

SR3, P231, Perception
"A player or gamemaster may make a perception Test for any situation that involves sight, hearing, smell, touch or taste. Set the base target number at 4 and use [the modifiers table on P232, if you want]. For things that have specific target numbers already assigned to them, such-as the Concealability of guns, make a perception test against the relevant target number."

IE: Assensing is not the same as normal astral sight, and it really just depends what base concealability/similar target numbers the focii have.

Some things to consider are wether or not small foci have smaller auras (the concealability might be factored) and wether or not the presence of different auras on characters are visually obvious. I personally think that, as an assensing test is required to discern one type of aura from another, one aura looks pretty-much like the next. As for the size of the aura: I don't think there's anything in 3rd Ed. so it's GM's call. I've heard people talk about how stuff in 2nd Ed. had astral beacons and the like but, as has been stated already, they're not really in 3rd ed.

There's also the question of how obvious a spell's aura is when it's cast on someone. OK: it has an aura which is around the character, but to what extent does it look like the aura around any normal human? They are, after-all, just auras "around" people.

Of course a Detect Magic spell would be remarkably (read insanely) useful for these activities. Cast it into a sustaining focus, re-casting until you can detect the force 8 focus in the next room with sufficient accuracy, then zip around just fast enough so that you check the entire area at-least once. You'll get a 'ping' on your radar whenever you come near a focus and, if cast well enough, you probably even know the force of the magic.