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Troll Bouncer

Feb 24 2010, 09:29 PM

Yes, I'm looking at giving the Hackers some needed love.

Interested in playing a Hacker as they should be? Or, possibly interested in brushing up on your skills and knowledge in the Hacking realm?

The rules:
Standard build, 4A rules.

I have all the books, so throw something out and see if it sticks.

Dont need to be a pure Hacker type, but spend a great deal of time in AR or VR (You'd be amazed at how much it pervades meta-life).

I'll be using the Rep system

Cracked software, while cheap will require replacing often (often, is a relative term however in game time)

Hope this is up someones alley and i'm not just wasting space

SleepIncarnate

Feb 24 2010, 10:14 PM

Just checking, are you gonna allow TMs or would that break this group since most of it is the Matrix? If you are allowing TMs, do they have to be of the streams listed in Unwired or can they make their own and get it approved by you? And not sure what you mean by the rep system. You mean like what they have on JackPoint, or are you talking about like karma building a character?

ravensoracle

Feb 25 2010, 01:02 AM

I am interested in such a game got an idea for a skillwired combat hacker. Haven't put him together yet so I don't know if what I am envisioning will work out but I'll give it a shot.

ravensoracle

Feb 25 2010, 02:02 AM

I tried PM'ing you but it says your messenger is turned off. Anyways here is a character I might submit. I dug him out of some characters I have been working on. He may not be enough of a hacker. You tell me if he'll cut it in your game.

He's been a work in progress in the back of my head for awhile now. He may be the real world backup for the other hackers though. He is an ex-Ares Company Man. I haven't laid out his knowledge skills yet but I was thinking along the lines of counter-espionage. He's addicted to personafix chips to change his personality to fit the mission and relies on hacked skillsofts to fill in for areas the team needs.

[ Spoiler ]

LurkerOutThere

Feb 25 2010, 03:05 AM

I'm interested although sleep's questions more or less mirror my own, I love all things matrix related.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 03:19 AM

To answer sleep's (and Lurkers) question, I'd like to stay with Hackers. TM's are a different animal all together. I want to focus on Hackers and their need for the next big 'code' or 'warez' that frankly a TM has no need for. That need is the link all Hackers share amongst themselves, the bridge between isolationist if not antisocial type personalities. I'll use the movie Hackers as a visual reference, it was code and warez that made them gravitate towards eachother (their culture).

I'll try to fix the PM problem, I'm currently unable to alter any of my personal settings including signature or avatar at the moment.

LurkerOutThere

Feb 25 2010, 03:32 AM

The answer on that score I believe is just to post more, there's a threshold set to keep out spam bots. I'd actually been messing around with the concept of a heavily cybered TM who operates like a hacker except for summoning the occasional (low powered because of his low resonance scores) sprite. Would you be willing to accept sucha thing?

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 03:38 AM

It strays away from the Hacker game concept I originally had hoped to play out.

LurkerOutThere

Feb 25 2010, 03:40 AM

Ok that's fine, although it occurs to me your going to end up with a bunch of very very similar characters as there's only so many ways to make a hacker character.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 03:40 AM

To be honest I'm not a fan of the TM's, but that is only out of the years (and I mean...years) I've spent playing a decker.....erm, Hacker.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 03:42 AM

I actually disagree on that. Its like saying two street sam's or mercs are to alike. Each can have its own tweaks and pitfalls.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 03:43 AM

Cant edit either yet lol

It's also like saying TM's are all alike, when in fact we know they arent.

LurkerOutThere

Feb 25 2010, 04:16 AM

Well all TM's would turn out similar, the different streams would allow at least some varience among traits/builds. With hackers because traits are more or less irrelevant your basically going to see everyone having the best program ratings they can get (especially stealth) and then the big question will be what collection of ware or magic do they use to boost their abilities.

ravensoracle

Feb 25 2010, 04:32 AM

There will be some variance in a all hacker game. There are other roles they will have to fill.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 04:45 AM

I'm not so worried about filling roles as I am expanding on the role Hackers usually have in a game. Most are relegated to searches and exploits for the team and usually given the brush off for 'behind the scenes concerns' such as spoofing their lifestyles etc. I'm offering the ability here for Hackers to immerse themselves in the role, and the culture that is alluded to in references throughout the books.

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 04:51 AM

Which TMs are a vital part of as well, as shown in Emergence. Let's face it, TMs, while rare, are a massive topic of speculation for the unemerged just like magicians are a topic of speculation for mundanes.

crizh

Feb 25 2010, 10:33 AM

If you're sticking with no TM's I have a hacker build lying around somewhere that I never got to play 'cos the game dried up.

I don't recall the ground rules he's built on but I'm sure he could be trimmed down and keep the basic concept intact.

edit.

Mataglap is here.

He's built on 450BP for a slightly different style of game so he'd need trimming and tweaking but you get the general idea. He's a stealth-centric hacker-adept.

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 02:31 PM

While we're on the topic, are you only allowing the core 5 metatypes, or are you also allowing all the metavarients, HMHVV victims, dragonlings, AIs, etc from the Runner's Companion?

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 03:30 PM

I'm certainly interested, but it looks like there is a lot of interest already (between refreshes at work, the topic appeared and there were 17 replies).

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 03:54 PM

Don't rule it out completely, I haven't thrown my hat in the ring yet, and most of the posts are from the same couple people. There were 3 in a row from Troll.

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 04:42 PM

Not ruling it out. I'm interested (and interested in hearing the answers to these question), and if recruiting officially started, I'd probably submit something. IIRC there was a thread in the Shadowrun section not too long ago related to this idea, and bumping it with a link to this thread might get more people interested.

I guess, what I was getting at was if the question is, "Is there enough interest to get a group formed?" the answer seems to be yes, even before I said "me too". That's all.

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 04:44 PM

THIS is the thread I had in mind. I was actually in this section - so most of the same people would probably see this thread too.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 05:25 PM

I'll say yes to all metavarients and the HMHVV types, with the foreknowledge that AI's require a decent write up on its beginning program and its 'birth', as well as pointing out care must giving to the home node. I'll also be putting a cap on the number of AI's, but HMHVV it up as much as you'd like lol.

And, I do believe we have enough interest in recruiting at this time.

Anymore questions for me?

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 05:46 PM

A few

1. Do you rule that Sprites/Agents/AI's etc get the +2 VR bonus to things they do, or not? IIRC, the rules are not clear, and I've seen a lot of threads debating it. Probably best to just get it out there.

2. You mentioned cracked software - which I assume most people will go for (since the tracking rules for legal software are no fun for hackers) - but at char-gen would you want us to pay the full price for software, even if its cracked, or would you have us pay 10% of the full price (which is what it would cost to get warez software, or wahtever) (Unwired 94)

3. How do you feel about the optional rules regarding open-source or freeware? (Unwired 110) I generally assume this option is off the table, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 06:00 PM

1. I'll have to consider that one carefully, so I'll get back to you on that one.

2. You'll only pay the 10% for it, but paying full price means you dont worry about degrading performance.

3. I'm not against it to be honest. You're Hackers after all, but you'll need the contacts (or advanced contacts) to keep the codes current. Hell, this option puts you more into the culture (roleplay) aspect of being a Hacker so I'm all for it.

While we're at this, you'll be paying full price for your lifestyle at creation. After that...Spoof,Spoof,Spoof!

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 06:12 PM

So basically everything that can get into the Matrix except for TMs is being allowed? Kinda prejudiced there, for a Matrix game that's like a 20 point negative quality. And while we're discussing Unwired, there's one thing that Unwired somehow managed to overlook..... number of successes needed for spoofing a full immersion lifestyle. Considering the cost, I'd normally put it between high and luxury lifestyles, or have it count as hospitalized intensive care, but that's something that'd be up to you.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 06:53 PM

I was pretty upfront from the beginning it was about Hackers, the thread title not so much, but the two first sentences were. TM's are by their nature very different from Hackers, they need neither Hardware or codes...the things that ties other Hackers into a culture (sub-culture). I'll end the posing AI argument before it occurs now. AI's need codes and the better their home node the better they are, but the need for code is there.

Full immersion would fall about the middle of high and luxury, but a look at Intensive care shows it's 30k rather than 55k for median of High and Luxury, so.....its a better deal. Go intensive care for 30k month.

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 07:02 PM

I think the difference lies in that full immersion is set to hook you up with a full VR rig, intensive care probably not so much. And my question was in regards to how many successes would be needed to spoof the lifestyle.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 07:17 PM

[Facepalm] doh! since High is 48 and Luxury is 100+, we'll split the difference and its 74 hits...wow!

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 07:20 PM

Yeah, the only ones who can get by full time in a hospital are TMs and those with implanted links. Which is a good thing for TMs wanting to go into the resonance realms, what with that whole losing track of time thing.

SleepIncarnate

Feb 25 2010, 08:18 PM

Ok, from talking to Troll a bit in PM, what do we as players want? Do we all want to be close by geographically and sometimes doing stuff in meatspace, or have the entire series of runs be purely in the Matrix and so can be wherever we want?

crizh

Feb 25 2010, 08:37 PM

I've tended to shy away from OSS in SR because it's more expensive than cracked code which makes no sense and all the silly limitations that are placed on it.

However, assuming it's not going to have a rating cap, it would be interesting to to have something like that be the unifying element in the game. A small group of players that are working on a unified code-base of common hacking tools that they field test on live hostile systems could be fun.

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Troll Bouncer @ Feb 25 2010, 01:00 PM)

1. I'll have to consider that one carefully, so I'll get back to you on that one.

No problem. Let us know.

QUOTE

2. You'll only pay the 10% for it, but paying full price means you dont worry about degrading performance.

Sure, but that does mean that you do have to worry about the +1 die to tracking attempt per uncracked program rule, right? Or would paying full price mean that we just abstract away all the hoopla about keeping them up to date? I assume the first interpretation, and that as a group of hackers, we'd prefer not to be tracked by our software's registration codes.

QUOTE

3. I'm not against it to be honest. You're Hackers after all, but you'll need the contacts (or advanced contacts) to keep the codes current. Hell, this option puts you more into the culture (roleplay) aspect of being a Hacker so I'm all for it.

[Edit: Put freeware and OSS in the same bin. See below]

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 08:51 PM

QUOTE (crizh @ Feb 25 2010, 03:37 PM)

Ah, my bad, I mixed freeware and OSS together in my previous post. yeah, if it costs something, and could be a unifying element, I like that. Especially if we belong to a group (share a group contact) that expects us to contribute once in a while... either by potsing "liberated" code, or writing some of our own and sharing it, or going on "runs" to get at various piece of paydata, etc.

BlackHat

Feb 25 2010, 08:56 PM

QUOTE (SleepIncarnate @ Feb 25 2010, 03:18 PM)

I like the idea of a game that usually takes place in the matrix, but where the meat world matters somewhat - just so that people don't completely disregard the physical world. If we all had physical attributes of 1, and were paraplegic, etc, etc, it would get old fast.

Plus, if one of us screws up and gets tracked, or brings too much heat down on us, the threat of someone showing up IRL to geek us should be real (since they'd probably stand a better chance taking us on there, one on one, than in the matrix where we're at our best, and can call friends in seconds.

That said, I think the majority of the action should be online, and it should be kind of weird if/when we had to meet up IRL, even if we were co-located. I'm imagining the first few episodes of The Guild (where the characters met each other in real life for the first time). If we got together IRL to go to an AR club every week, that could be cool too, and would still capture a lot of the hacker subculture, but it would mean a lot more meat-world runs.

That's my two cents, I think I'd enjoy it either way, but it is a good idea to come to some consensus.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 25 2010, 10:29 PM

@BlackHat: any programs you buy at full price at chargen will not be trackable. Its a small leap for me to believe that you've found away around the registration in some manner. I wont penalize you for paying the full price, since as Hackers its within your scope to know how to avoid such things.

Glad to see you all are forming up linkages to a common ground.

And as a Matrix game, geographical closeness is a matter of preference over necessity, but the meat world does often interject itself, even in matrix heavy games.

ravensoracle

Feb 25 2010, 10:52 PM

The amount of Meat world would apply to the partial character I submitted, since he's basically a hacker/ Street Sam mix. A lot of his search for code would lead to Skillsofts as well. If it is more about the Matrix actions then I will create a more Matrix-centric character.

BlackHat

Feb 26 2010, 01:18 AM

Couple of ideas in the works, that I'll probably mold based on whatever discussion happens here. Troll Bouncer, were you hoping to get general concepts first, or full CSs? When were you hoping to have everyone's character's by? And how large a group were you hoping for? (I wouldn't be surprised if you got more interest than you intended.

)

SleepIncarnate

Feb 26 2010, 01:40 AM

I've already got a basic character made, just needing to flesh out the back story a bit more before sending it with the character sheet via PM.

ravensoracle

Feb 26 2010, 04:53 AM

Will the game use standard rules or the Attribute rules where you use Attribute + Skill with Hits limited by program rating?

Troll Bouncer

Feb 26 2010, 05:34 PM

I'll take concepts at this point, but you can start cranking out the sheets if you wish (it always takes me a long time to create a character...I have to justify the 'why' and 'how' of the items i put in. I blame the OCD)

I'm looking for 4 to 6 players, and at the moment I believe I'm at the bottom of my limit.

I'll be using the standard rules, even though the optional 'Attribute limits net hits' rule seems appealing to me.

Also, begin thinking about your Icon. It plays a bigger role in this game than any others you might have played.

Troll Bouncer

Feb 26 2010, 10:38 PM

I'm capping off any further AI submissions. I'm not sure how secretive people wish to be so I wont be saying who has submitted one.

LurkerOutThere

Feb 27 2010, 04:57 PM

Troll a piece of unsolicited advice, do not allow cracked software, it pretty much destroys game balance and since so much of the game will be devoted to how good your software is the benefits of having to replace it on occasion far outweight the costs.

So question is the whole game pretty much matrix based, no meat involement at all?

Mickle5125

Feb 27 2010, 05:28 PM

I'm interested in getting in on this, too, if you've still got an opening. My games have all died down a bit.

General concept

[ Spoiler ]

I'll get to work on the character today, and will get it posted here when I can.

BlackHat

Feb 28 2010, 02:42 PM

The concept I'm rolling around (which I can probably have done sometime in the next day) is a bit of a hacker version of a face - someone who is really into the "scene", and is probably better known for his reputation online, as well as his connections, and as being the source of a few memes, than his actual skill as a code-slinger. Of course, a face that is primarily interacting online takes a different sort of build, so that's interesting, and I still want him to be able to hold his own as a hacker (but I won't be surprised if the entire team is better than him at any given task). I'm leaning towards making him something of a matrix celebrity (maybe his online persona is even well known outside of the matrix subculture) I'm thinking of adapting the blogger or trid-pirate contact templates a bit, and have something along the lines of Three Dog from Fallout, or J-Bone from Johnny Mnemonic. Probably less revolutionary, but I'm still working out what sorts of things he would "be about". Would probably also pick up the erased quality (which I suspect will be fairly common among this group) to make sure his reputation is strictly limited to his online persona, and that any personal or unwanted data evaporates quickly. I imagine a number of other hackers (fans, total-farkers, etc) volunteering to help him clean up that sort of stuff - it certainly wouldn't be his own skill cleaning up his datatrail.

Its still a work in progress, so if we iron out what sort of warez group the team wants to be associated with, I might reorient this character's interest (and iFame) to be inline with that.

Troll Bouncer can also let me know if I'm going off in a bizarre unwanted direction, but I think this character would fits the campaign idea, and should add some diversity to the group of hackers.

Darquewing

Feb 28 2010, 03:29 PM

Is there any room left for another player? I am new to the SR4 rules, but know a good bit about the SR world up to 2nd Ed. I used to play deckers a lot, and I think Hackers are a real interesting twist on the idea. I would most likely like to start as a straight-up hacker type, but the idea of a hacker/rigger type would be neat too.

This would be a first for me playing a forum-based game, so I may need a little coaching to do it.

Ig I can get in, would a Karma built character be legal?

SleepIncarnate

Feb 28 2010, 04:02 PM

My character would work well with yours, BlackHat, taking the investigator role and generally being the group's expert at data searching and being a decent all around hacker, but I'm sure everyone else will go all out and surpass me, focusing more heavily in the actual hacking areas and probably have 6's across the board in everything but skills and attributes.

LurkerOutThere

Feb 28 2010, 04:21 PM

"Holy Crap! There's crazy and then there's death wish." - Slamm-O

There is a considerable school of thought that a hacker should be an electronic ghost gliding along the digital shadows the only sign of their presence the occasional notation in the error log and details of their exploits showing up a week later on shadowland

...Death Wish doesn't belong to that school, in fact if he could find it he'd likely burn it to the ground humming merrily to himself. Death Wish likes nothing better then to come onto a system and make it his through sheer chutzpah until nothing short of a hardware reboot and maybe a fireaxe will dislodge him. He's not above some sneaking around but it's when the alerts sound and the spiders scramble that he comes alive. When not hacking or researching the next set of matrix attack code death can often be found at matrix hangouts catering to virtual fights and war games. Despite a very obviously nihlistic personality Death Wish is a fairly personable character as far as matrix jockey's go seeming to embody the lifestyle of eat drink and be merry, for tommorow he plans to die.

Basically death wish would be the teams tank/bruiser, less emphasis on hacking and more on cybercombat. I don't want to go into too much of his back story but he's definitely ex-military and has a very old soldier vibe to him. A little bit Jayne from Firefly and a lot of Bill from Left 4 Dead.

Mickle5125

Feb 28 2010, 04:47 PM

QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Feb 28 2010, 10:21 AM)

Basically death wish would be the teams tank/bruiser, less emphasis on hacking and more on cybercombat.

Sounds like there are two of us looking for that roll, comrade. Ah well. You can never have enough boom, neh?

Darquewing

Feb 28 2010, 05:16 PM

Okay... since everyone else seems to be going with irregular hacker types, I suppose I could do toe the line for a "standard" hacker arch-type.

"Geist" would be my ghost-in-the-machine hacker. Though he would have some charisma to him. Using Hot-Sim, Sim Booster, and Sim Accelerator (munchkiny, I know), his attitude would be to go unnoticed until HE decides it's time to play. Think of him as a digital Cat Shaman. Until he things go real bad, he will want to taunt and generally piss off his opponents. Should someone actually hurt him, he will turn vindictive trying to destroy them as quickly as possible. And he keeps a list of those who have crossed him.

In a team with combat hackers I think he would work well. He would be the one slinking past the distracted defenses, going for the target, while his teammates are making a general mess of the place.

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