one way to get good armor for bod 3 is:
Synergist Business Line Longcoat (4/2) (Arsenal pg. 46)
FormFitting Body Armor (half-body) (4/1) (counted as 2/1 when looking penalties) (Arsenal pg 48)
Securetech PPP Systems Helmet (0/2) (Arsenal pg. 49)
Securetech PPP Systems Shin Guards (Discreet version) (0/1) (Arsenal pg. 49)

Ballistic Armor 8 (counted as 6 when counting penalties) / Impact Armor 6

See, the problem here is that it isn't quite true, even if it is best practices to act as if it were true. I mean, hey, in most ways I agree with you; for example, I'm not terribly fond of some of his spell selections simply because I think it does too much mundane crap. My magicians load up on things like Mana Static, Detect Life, Mind Control spells and Trid Phantasm. And they always have Assensing. Every time. Heck, they usually even have a smattering of Astral Combat just so I can dodge decently during my character's out-of-body experiences. The Astral is undoubtedly a powerful tool. But at the same time, it's perfectly possible to make a Magician who is useful and skips those abilities and the simple fact of the matter is there's no real way to ignore the meat world. It's sub-optimal, but you can pick up basic assensing abilities through karma and a specialization fairly cheaply, and the lack of such abilities are fairly unlikely to get you killed in the meantime. As I said, in the short term, it makes you into a glorified Mystic Adept, but at the very least you still have a much less unforgiving upgrade path to astral abilities than a Mystic Adept does. Those poor bastards can't even project.

Edit: nevermind, I somehow missed a bunch of posts?

Yes, it is perfectly possible to make a Magician who is useful and skips Counterspelling, for example.

With both Assensing and Stealth Group, it is unlikely that the lack of Perception will get you killed in the meantime and you are much more useful besides. While you can default to Perception and there are equipment that add dice to Perception(as I have stated previously), you cannot default to Assensing. Which means that while you can use Edge, use Vision Enhancement and hope to spot some ninja lurking round the corner if you do not have Perception, you cannot even roll to find the spirit that is stalking you on the astral if you don't have Assensing. At all.

A Magician is one of the exceptions to Perception being an absolute necessity, it is still useful for a Magician to have but not as necessary compared to most other characters.

Personaly, a mage should have the following skills (no matter the rating and/or associated group):
- Spellcasting
- Summoning
- Counterspelling
- Binding
- Assensing
- Perception
- 1 combat skill (either unarmed, any weapon type, or Dodge - Dodge being my preference). Can even be specialized
- Pistols specialised in SA
- Astral Combat (this is debatable and can go into the next list instead)

Gravy skills - to better fit in team or to complement it:
- Infiltration
- Pilot specialised in ground vehicle

Since we're talking about a dwarf hermetic mage with high logic:
- Demolition
- Any single B/R
These latest are to give you a purpose beyond magic, and an opportunity to do something useful/interesting/role-playing-wise between runs.

Now the tough part is to assign ratings. Note that there's no shame in having a rating 1 skill (it's actually 2 dice better than not having the skill!!!).

Nifft, you're mentionning a lot of foci you'd like to buy a char gen. Is that really necessary ?? Foci DO cost a lot at char gen. My point: you're talking about reducing attribute ratings and taking less skills, but the truth is that you'll need more of these than gear. Second, foci have their limitations, like going through wards.

All I can say is that at char gen, everything is balanced out and it's all a matter of choice: where will you have fun in the runs and in between runs ??

Those aren good suggestions, but I'd say it's more accurate to say there's no shame in having a one provided you have a sufficient linked attribute. Unless it's linked to a primary attribute, having a one often means you're going to be too ineffective to be really proactive with that skill-- characters with little Infiltration ability likely shouldn't factor it into their plans unless they also have the resources to heavily stack other modifiers in their favor, such as chameleon suits and the concealment power.* That is why I usually only recommend taking a one if you plan on specializing so you can perform a specific task (a smart infiltrator/demo man taking specialized Hardware to defeat maglocks springs to mind) or if a couple of hits will do you some good on an opposed test even if you lose the test. For example, Dodge is somewhat useful even in small amounts since any hits you make in the Defense test is one less net hit worth of damage to soak. Plus, it rather goes without saying that Defense tests can have rather bad outcomes relative to other opposed tests. By contrast, I have mixed feelings about dabbling with pistols on your average three agility magician simply because 8 dice isn't that great of a best case scenario; pistols hit negative range modifiers all too quickly. It's not that unusual for me to create an automatics wielding Magician, but in such cases I often include Muscle Toner 2 or at least a reflex recorder in the package for good measure. Wide bursts and double digit dice make for a much more plausible combat mage.


*Admittedly, this isn't entirely unreasonable; you can make a case for a one in Perception and the Stealth skills more easily than with many others simply because you can stack so many other modifiers that being lightly trained isn't necessarily a lost cause. YMMV.

Thank you all kindly. We've played a few sessions, but we're all still learning the rules -- everyone other than me has played previous editions, I'm new to Shadowrun (but a fan of the Cyberpunk genre). The team has come together as:
- Me (dwarf, hermetic magician)
- A physical adept (elf, shotguns)
- A street samurai (essence? what essence?)

I'm going to be trying to cover these areas:
- Magic guy
- Logic Skills guy
- Medic


Here's what I've ended up with:

Foci: a Power Focus 2. That's it. Seems like a Sustaining Focus (Health 3) would be nice, but what can you do.

Contacts: 6/6 Talismonger. This ought to cover my butt for when I realize how dumb I was not to learn spell XXX, and not to have YYY sustaining focus, right?

Spells:
- Heal
- Stunbolt (Direct)
- Increase Reflexes
- Influence (Mental)
- Physical Barrier (Environ.)
- Detect Life, Extended (Active)
- Mind Probe (Active, Directional)


Stats: - 180 BP total
Body 3
Agility 3
Reaction 3
Strength 3
Charisma 3
Intuition 4
Logic 5
Willpower 6

Edge 2 - at least it's not 1 anymore
Magic 5 - and essence 6, so I get all of it


Skills: - 106 BP total
Electronics (Group) 1
Infiltration 1
Spellcasting 5
Summoning 5
Counterspelling 4
Binding 4
Perception 1
Dodge 1
Assensing 1
Astral Combat 1
First Aid 1

With a high Logic and the whole Electronics group, I figure he'll have a decent chance at not screwing up generic computer stuff too badly. I removed the Charisma stuff -- he's NOT put together to be a Face, and nobody else on our team is either, so our options simply won't include fast-talk. If that attitude gets him killed, then I'll just make an Elf Shaman next.

Infiltration looked too important to default on.

Astral Combat and Assensing: can't default on those, so I took one rank in each. My big plan if Astral Combat comes up is Stunbolt, which is also my plan if normal combat comes up. It's a very flexible plan.


Qualities:
-15: Sensitive System
-10: Allergy (Common, Mild) - Seawater
-5 Addiction (Mild) - Alcohol
+5 Mentor Spirit - Dog (+2 dice to Detection spells, +2 dice for Spirits of Man) - it seems like Detection spells go from good to awesome at 5 hits, so more dice is a good thing.
+15 Magician (Hermetic)
+25 Dwarf


Gear: - spent 10,495 ¥, not including the 50k ¥ power focus
Fake SIN (1-6) Rtg 4
Fake SIN (1-6) Rtg 4
Certified Credstick
Armored Vest - Bio Monitor, Fire Resist 6, Skinlink
Glasses (1-4) Rtg 3 - Flare Compensation, Image Link, Skinlink
Earbuds (1-3) Rtg 2 - Skinlink
Commlink (2/4) + OS (3/3) - Skinlink
Medkit R (1-6) Rtg 6
+ 7,505 ¥ left over, I guess it's going into Lifestyle.


He has no more implants. Maybe he'll drop some Essence for them after he finds a Force 5 Power Focus to compensate for his lost Magic dice.


Have I done anything horribly wrong? Or does he look likely to survive a few runs?

Thanks, -- N

The most questionable thing about your sheet is the sheer number of skills you have taken at 1; you've spread yourself a bit thin without actually being all that good in some of the things you're dabbling in, such as Electronics and Infiltration (I can't blame you too much though; Hardware IS nice to have). Generally speaking, buying such skills at 1 during chargen is inefficient due to the fact that karma costs climb with rating whereas bp is a flat 4 points per rating-- in theory, you can get a bit more bang for your buck by waiting to buy low end skills with karma. But with that said, your character is a Magician, which complicates things somewhat in practice. Realistically, one of your best advancement options (Initiation) is only available once you are in play, so unlike say, the Street Samurai, you have better things to do with your karma rather buying a bunch of rank 1 skills and specializations to plug up the gaps in your sheet. Therefore, buying just enough Assensing and Perception to avoid defaulting isn't really that bad of an idea even if you could get those skills cheaper in a hypothetical buckets of karma situation. You'll probably be a grade 2 or 3 initiate with a couple of shiny new spells, foci and specializations to play around with before you'll start regretting it, and by then you guys may not even be interested in playing the same characters.

Besides, at the end of the day, you're a Magician and thus won't lack for things to do, particularly since you know Suggestion, Heal, Detect Life and Mind Probe, all of which should prove themselves very useful when paired with a couple of combat monkeys. They'll definitely need Heal at some point and the other 3 spells may very well turn out to be the best shot you have at performing legwork until the keeb gets around to fulfilling his destiny and grabs some Influence dice. I've seen better sheets, but hey, you guys are still learning and you'll have plenty to contribute, which is all that's that really matters when it comes down to it. Running your friends off the table with your mad magic skills is bad form anyway.

Buying basic skills at 1, even in BP is well worth it, even if it is less karma efficient. Nifft has already maxed those skills he is allowed to - he has 2 5s and the other 2 skills are already at 4, these are the skills essential to his character. With the exception of Influence skill group, it looks like a viable skill allocation, my advice is try to get at least Etiquette 1 and Negotiation 1. With his early karma, he can easily buy specialisations to his Rating 5 skills.

His attribute distribution however, I feel is much much less efficient. Decide whether the character dodges the shot or he soaks the damage, the attributes now tell me that this character tries to do both but is doing neither well. He has Charisma 3 and no Influence skill groups at all. The number of bound spirits is tied to Charisma, so is he going to get 3 bound spirits? He has no combat skills other than Dodge which is linked to Reaction, so what is he planning to do with his Agility 3? As far as I am concerned, this attribute allocation is quite bad, especially with BP. If this was karmagen, I would understand the 3s, it may be more efficient this way buying with karma.

I do not like his Contact either. A Connection 6 Contact will not pick up your calls 5 out of 6 times, unless the GM deems otherwise. You roll a dice and only when you roll equal or higher than the Connection rating, then you can reach the Contact. Connection is a question of balance, if you need something that is difficult to get, sure Connection helps, but this guy is so popular his comm is probably ringing off the hook.

Ah, yeah, I always forget about that rule/suggestion since I pretty much never use it as a straight threshold 6 die roll; I dislike how it doesn't take Loyalty into account, and the other guy in our group who GMs feels the same way. By my thinking I'd rather hope a 6 loyalty would encourage the contact get back to you rather quickly, but Toturi's correct in indicating that any delays you experience will be entirely up to the GM.

I have a fear of defaulting.

Thanks.

Yeah, I really wish I could also buy 1 rank in Athletics, Influence and Stealth groups, and maybe two ranks of Unarmed Combat. Not enough to be any kind of billy badass, but enough to leave some very nasty bite-marks on your knee.

I'm pretty clueless about what stats are necessary, so my philosophy was "cover my rear".

I'm open to suggestion -- it looks like you think I should lower his Reaction & Agility and raise his Body?

Honestly all I want is to not be screwed over and/or led into a trap. If my 6/6 buys me someone I can trust -- even if I can't get him on the phone reliably -- that's good enough for me.

Thanks, -- N

Fear of defaulting is good. Especially on actions you are likely to take.

Well, I did say "sheer number" for a reason. I'm not opposed to having a few ones if want to grab something to round out a solid character that has most of his basic survival skills covered. If I have 8 or 9 points left over when I'm nearly done with a sheet, the first thing I do is grab things like Hardware, Pilot Groundcraft or Con if I don't already have them. But when you're running with poor Perception, Assensing and Dodge but still have a dozen points or so left to play around with? Well, that's kinda dangerous, and in such a situation I'd have taken the 14 points in Electronics and First Aid and fixed one of them, particularly since the First Aid rules barely penalize you for defaulting provided you have a modern medkit that you can use to substitute for skill. And frankly, if you don't have a modern medkit you may want to hold off on healing the guy until you do if it is at all possible. The healing rules are weird like that.

Anyway though, the character's certainly playable regardless, so it's really neither here nor there.

First, you need to read the rules to know which stat does what. Now, my opinion is first and foremost to pump Body, since your character is a dwarf and they get a bonus to Body.
You can get the BP to pump Body from
1) Strength - with the Dwarf bonus to Strength you would not have Strength 1 which often raises GM heckles (although as a GM, it doesn't raise mine)
2) Agility - since I do not think you have any Agility linked skillsAs Whipstitch points out, you do have an Agility linked skill
3) Charisma - if you are not planning to have an army of spirits
My preference would be to drop Strength and AgilityCharisma to their minimums and pump the points into Body first and then Reaction. Body (and Armor which is linked to Body for how much Armor you can wear) soaks damage. Reaction can help you get out of the harm's way altogether. A further note is that you have not maxed your Attribute quota, you have spent up to 180 BPs of 200 BPs allowable.
Now if you simply want to have someone fairly well connected you can count on, I would recommend a Connection 3 Street level fixer with Loyalty 6. Some of the BP you save can go towards Etiquette or Negotiation. Remember even though this Contact is loyal, you may still need to roll Etiquette or Negotiations (although there may be a bonus due to his Loyalty).

He has Infiltration at a 1, actually, so the Agility isn't a complete waste; he doesn't have Invis or Camouflage, but it still might be useful once you factor in Concealment. I agree that he could definitely ditch the strength though. It's just too specialized of a stat in SR4 to worry much about, and dwarves are strong enough as is to get by unless the GM starts really targeting them for attribute only tests. Besides, if by some weird chance he ever has to move something genuinely heavy he can probably just summon an Earth Spirit; they have BOD and STR to spare.

My Strength 3 is the minimum for a Dwarf.

I'll be sure to get some stealthy Illusion spells with whatever Karma comes my way.

Thanks, -- N

Ah, I figured you must have had at least a 4 or toturi wouldn't have mentioned it.

Ah, I was thinking Dwarf was +2 Body and +1 Strength. In that case, you'd need to get some BPs from other areas. Charisma may be reduced, then you have 2 points to put into Body.

I don't know, putting agility on a mage feels like putting charisma on a troll to me. You only need it for infiltration specifically, I don't see why you don't just drop your agility by 2, raise you infiltration by 2, then find some other place to dump the 12 points you saved.

He has Agi 3 and Infil 1, that gives him 4 dice, it should give him 1 success. Thus combined with multiple dice reduction to anyone looking for him via Concealment and/or Illusion spells, he could get into places. But without any certainty of getting that 1 success, all the dice reduction in the world isn't going to help, because the other guy's Threshold becomes 0.

Dropping Agi to 2 and keeping Infil as is could work. He has 3 dice, on average he should get 1 success. He could use Edge if he really needs to succeed, I suppose.

My preference is to get Body to 6. Charisma and maybe Agility can be reduced. It is up to the OP to decide. I am just trying to get the character to a level of survivability I am comfortable with.

That's what I'm saying though, why bother putting anything in agility at all if he just has the one skill linked to it? It's not like raw agility tests ever come up, so why not just buy the skill instead of the attribute?

Agility has a funny way of coming up when you least expect it though, thanks to attribute only tests and gymnastics tests like keeping your balance, etc. Still, in such a case a 3 is unlikely to get you too far, but it's not completely indefensible either.

My GM has strongly recommended some skill with firearms.

In light of that, I'm going to be changing my skill array:

First Aid 1 -> Pistols 1

Also, I'm getting a Smartlink in my glasses, and I'll be packing a Hammerli 620S (with 30 rounds = 5 cartridges of 6 each). With Smartlink, I've got 3 + 1 + 2 = 6 dice to attack. That's enough to reliably hit the broad side of a barn, and at least I'll have something to do with my extra initiative passes if some jerk keeps counter-spelling me.

- - -

I think I'm getting a handle on spirit use, but if anyone has suggestions on specific uses of my Hermetic spirit choices, I'm all ears. (For example, what's better in a firefight against foes with assault rifles and grenades: a Fire spirit, or an Earth spirit?)

Thanks, -- N

Spirit of Man.

And since you are swapping out First Aid for Pistols, do not lower your Agility.

I'd consider automatics and a machine pistol instead of a pistol though. A bit harder to hide, but if you must resort to gun fire on a relatively unskilled character wide bursts can be very helpful.

Right. Agility says.

Why Spirit of Man? Aside from the Innate Spell power (which isn't great since my spell list doesn't include stuff like Fireball), I'm just not seeing why it's better than any of the elementals, except for its visual acuity.

@ Whipstitch: Any specific recommendation? The smartlink is 33% of my dicepool so I don't want to lose that...

The thing you're forgetting is that Innate Spell is a power, and you can order a spirit to maintain a power on you indefinitely for a single favor. So, call up a spirit of man, give it the innate power of invisibility, and have it cast and maintain invisibility on you. Higher force? Do invisibility and increased reflexes. Now you're invisible and get 4 IP a turn and don't have to burn up room in a sustaining focus or take any concentration penalties.

Basically any buff spells you have get to become semi-permanent.

Eh, I forgot that you have a Talismonger instead of a traditional Fixer. That might make getting a gun with accessories pre-installed for you unfeasible if your GM isn't feeling generous or doesn't handwave that stuff at character creation. Personally, I let people get popular mods like the good ol' smartlink installed at your friendly neighborhood Weapons World for a nominal fee if you can swing the licenses. With your Logic I guess you'd have fairly even odds at installing a smart link accessory to a machine pistol if you had to, but you'd more than likely flub putting in a Gas Vent system, and without one there's no way your MP would outperform the Hammerli. I guess you could use an Ares Crusader with a Smartlink, since that already comes with a Gas Vent II pre-installed, but that one can't manage Long Bursts. You'd probably want the option for long bursts, a Gas Vent III and a folding Stock and/or Personalized Grip before giving up the Hammerli's advantage in concealability. I'd say talk to your GM about how he handles accessories, but it might not really be worth the hassle compared to the Hammerli or the good ol' Predator. They're both fine weapons.

If I recall correctly, a Spirit of Man has both Concealment and Guard (either as an fixed power or an optional power) in addition to Innate Spell. It is this combination as well as the bonus dice from your Mentor Spirit that is the reason why I recommend Spirit of Man.

Concealment to make it harder to hit you directly. Guard to prevent glitches, in combat, a glitch can be fatal.

Yeah, they have both powers as fixed abilities, which means you can pick up Movement or Innate Spell as your Force 3 Power and have a very flexible Spirit indeed. They have Accident as an innate power as well so they can come in handy if you're forced to make a quick get away. Guard and Movement can be the novice driver's best friend.

Movement no longer works on most vehicles. Now if the body of the target of movement is greater than the force of the spirit, it only gets its movement multiplied by half the spirit's force, and if the body of the target is twice the spirit's force, movement does nothing. So you might be able to get 2.5-3x's movement on a car if you use up a service from a force 5 spirit, but movement is no longer a creator of light speed travel.

That's why we cast it on the street sam... or that guy in the party who you just don't like .

Guess you could always use physical mask instead to make him glow as if he had an armor spell on him ;P.

True enough, but I think we can agree that a Eurocar or Shin-Hyung that goes two and a half times faster than normal only sounds bad compared to the raw power of the original unrestricted Movement power.


[EDIT] Oh, right, I said Force 3 power. That was my clumsy and imprecise way of saying "one of the abilities you get per every 3 points of Force." Should have just said optional power. Sorry.

Random gun I was thinking of:

FN 5-7C (machine pistol)
1pt recoil comp (comes with gun)
Barrel Accessory: Gas-Vent 3
Top Accessory: Laser Sight
1 slot: Firing Selection Mod - Full Auto
1 slot: Internal Smartgun
1 slot: Improved Range Finder
1 slot: Personalized Grip (1 recoil)
1 slot: underbarrel weight (1 recoil)
1 slot: powered folding stock (1 recoil)

Tracer Rounds (+1 short burst, +2 long burst, +3 full burst)
Armored long jacket (of some kind): -2 conceal
Concealed Holster: -1 conceal


The Smartgun is for normal circumstances. The laser sight & tracers are for when you need to get every bonus die you can (they stack, and can go up to +4). Improved range finder will keep your distance penalties down, and fully deployed you'll have 7pts of recoil comp. Not quiet enough for a a long/short or full burst w/o penalties, but close.

Personally I prefer heavy pistols, but being able to use Gas-Vent officially helps a lot. Another option would be to drop most of those mods, and go: Electronic Firing, Internal Surpressor, short barreled, and subsonic bullets, for the "ninja gun." But at that point, you might want to use a (heavy pistol) Ares Viper Slivergun or the Ruger Thunderbolt.

Yeah, and that will be awesome when I have more awesome buff spells. So I'm taking the bonus dice on Man as an investment right now.

Thanks for the analysis. I'll stick with the Hammerli ("I am a DWARF, and this is my HAMMER(li)!") for now, but it's good to know what my next weapon ought to be, when I can afford a custom job.

Ooo, I missed the combat applications of never glitching!

Explosive ammo suddenly looks more attractive.

Thanks, -- N

Smartgun does not stack with laser sight. Tracer rounds are also only for non-smartgun users at long range. Why include a smartgun system with the others? Especially with the improved rangefinder... which only works with your smartgun system. Throw some EX or EX-EX in there for a good time.

I got what you meant, but thanks.

Laser sight is not cumulative with Smartlink (SR4A core, p.152), but it looks like the tracer rounds are an interesting option.

Thanks, -- N

Kalibur, Nifft?



Laser sight and Tracers do stack.

Tracers work for any range beyond short (and short range for a Machine Pistol is 5 meters.)

And Tracers may be mixed in with other ammunition types. I simply wasn't presuming what -other- type of ammo the OP would be needing. (Specially since the Tracers are for "special occasions," wherein the Smartlink is intended for "everday" use.)

Frankly, if the redundancy bothers you, then drop the smartgun + improved range finder. With the recoil mods you can fire 3 round bursts all day without penalty, and thus Tracers + Laser Sight will be granting you a +2.

Yeah, and guns are also dangerous, and I'm not talking just about standing in front of one. Thats a lot of money to spend on tricking out a machine pistol. And when the fit hits the shan, and you have to ditch it, then what? You're out a ton of time and money. Always keep your options portable and disposable unless you have a great way of hiding it. Concealable holster and duster (long coat, meh) won't stop a MAD from picking it up at all.

Of course they won't stop a MAD from picking it up. Right along with almost every weapon that every runner is carrying.

FN 5-7C (machine pistol)
1pt recoil comp (comes with gun)
Barrel Accessory: Gas-Vent 3
Top Accessory: Laser Sight
1 slot: Firing Selection Mod - Full Auto
1 slot: Personalized Grip (1 recoil)
1 slot: underbarrel weight (1 recoil)
1 slot: powered folding stock (1 recoil)


600Y
400Y
100Y
300Y
100Y
25Y
100Y

1,625
+1,400 for smartgun + range finder.

Frankly, I'll pay the +400 just for the cool Smartgun tricks.
Do you -want- to throw it away? No, but that's no different than any Shadowrunner's favorite modded gun. 3,000 isn't going to make or break the bank if you somehow loose it.

Ah, I gotcha: you were proposing an alternative to Smartlink, rather than a cumulative augmentation in addition to Smartlink. My mistake.

I will certainly look into a machine pistol when I'm richer. The option to lay down suppressive fire is great for a utility dude, and my Spirits ought to be immune to my cheap bullets, so I'll be able to harry the opposition without any danger of injuring my servitor.

Thanks, -- N

It's a bit counterintuitive, but I'm afraid Machine Pistols don't actually use the Pistols skill, they use Automatics, which makes it a bit of a tough choice.

This really is one of those situations where there's pros and cons either way, particularly for characters that lack a big firearms and palming dicepools. Pistols are the more practical weapons in terms of concealment and cost, but you need a decent amount of skill to be dangerous with them, which cuts into the utility of carrying one in the first place-- why risk detection at all if you cannot hit your targets reliably? This isn't really a problem for say, a Samurai or Gunslinger Adept, but that's because those guys throw enough dice around that they can be dangerous when armed with toothpicks. A dabbler like yourself, on the other hand, will generally be rolling 6 dice in the best case scenario. Still, it's a helluva lot better than being helpless and you can be reasonably sure of carrying one without getting hassled in most areas. With the right permits and a concealed holster an officer would really have to be out to get you to slap you with brandishing a weapon charges.

Machine Pistols, on the other hand, are fairly easy to threaten hits with provided you use the right tactics. With Image Magnification and enough Recoil Compensation you can do things like make a Take Aim action to eliminate range penalties followed up by a Wide Long burst, which bestows a -5 dice penalty to your target's defense pool. That's pretty dangerous for Joe Security the Lonestar Rookie with his 3 Dodge and 3 Reaction-- best case scenario has you rolling 6 dice to their 1 even if they're going on Full Defense! And if you use Stick and Shock ammo the low MP damage code is less of an issue. The problem here though, of course, is the fact that fully modifying a MP and spraying bursts of Stick and Shock all over the place gets rather expensive rather quickly. The concealment also leaves something to be desired.

Yeah, I know, but it's not like I'm heavily invested in Pistols right now. One rank + a moderate Agility, and the Agility works for Automatics too. I'll probably specialize in Semi-Auto (for Pistols), since that's the cheapest dice I can get... and maybe that's my last purchase in the Pistols skill.

The way I see it, I'm going to be reaching for my pistol in two circumstances:

1/ For whatever reason, I'd rather look like a mediocre muggle than a kick-ass mage. Having some basic competence with a gun may make me LESS suspicious.

2/ I could see it happening that I would have nothing better to do than shoot at something twice per IP, if only to impose a -2 die penalty to its defenses against the attacks of my allies. Like, if we're fighting a big boss drone or something else immune to Stun damage, my one combat spell isn't going to be very useful. This will probably change as I get more spells, but who knows: maybe the gun thing will prove too useful to ignore.

As the utility guy, I can see value in being able to lay down suppressive fire, so I'm very interested in Automatics (eventually)... but if the target is one "Joe Security", my first instinct is still Stunbolt. Maybe telling my allies to consider some SnS ammo so their attacks stack with my Stunbolts would be smart? And/or get them some flash-bang (Stun damage) grenades?

Thanks, -- N

Stick and Shock ammo is one of the most effective ammo types in the game for general use, actually, so they should definitely consider keeping a clip around in any case. The biggest drawbacks of SnS are Pain Editors, the cost and the difficulty taking on heavy drones effectively, but against light drones you have a pretty decent chance of disabling them for a turn or two via the Electrical damage rules. If nothing else, you can use that time to swap clips and plug 'em with some APDS or sic a Fire Spirit on them.

Actually... it would apply to Counterspelling if you were attempting to bring down an already active spell (Magic + Counterspelling in that case) such as bringing down the Increased Relfexes spell that the opposition mage already has up...

Keep the Faith

My advice is to keep Pistols and use the Fichetti Security 600 and Yamaha Sakura Fubuki, loaded with SnS rounds. These are light pistols. Not heavy pistols, thus by the rules, are more easily hidden.

I'm of mixed mind on tracers. They're generally inferior to the other ammo types, and generally something you're only going to bother with in belted weapons like a white knight which only fire in 3rd bursts or more.

On one side, they're great for bonus dice if you're having trouble hitting... on the other side. Smartgun + Ex-Ex, SnS, APDS will give you the best of both worlds by far. (+2 dicepool no matter your firing mode, AND +damage/AP)...

The only time tracers shine is when you have a full-auto weapon like a LMG on a drone (complex action to fire w/ command)... and start splitting fire between adjacent targets attacks as the bonus dice get added to each split pool. And even then... they're rather expensive.


Even w/ the ability to mix... okay, you have SnS and tracers in the belt against a drone... now what? roll for shutdown and potentially damage it w/ the tracers... pick one effect or the other.. Or, you fire against a normal guy, you want to knockout... do the tracers potentially kill him! Overall I'd have to say, roll 1d6, on a 1-2 the tracer hits him... on a 3-6 treat the attack as the primary ammo type (tracers are every 3rd round in the belt/mag).